Options
Introducing a new collection - 1878-CC set
OriginalDan
Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
A few forum members here have helped me with a collection I've started and I thought I'd share it with the rest of you. My goal is to put together a nice 1878-CC Mint/type set. This is one of two main collections I am working on, the other being a trade dollar variety set.
Why did I choose 1878-CC? A couple of reasons, really. Least important but what started the idea is that my birth year falls 100 years after 1878. Why Carson City? I grew up in northern California, not too far from Carson City Nevada, right in the heart of "gold country". The proximity to Carson City has led to an affinity for CC coins. I visited a lot of the old gold and silver mines during my formative years. But the main reason I love 78-CC coins is the numismatic history, 1878 was a very busy and chaotic year for coins at the Carson City mint and it led to some interesting mintage figures and varieties (which I will describe below). A motivating factor with this set is that it forces me to slow down and wait for the coins. It's not often that many of these coins become available, let alone the right example for my set. I fully expect this set to take years to complete and possibly a lifetime to complete should I decide to upgrade when really high end examples become available as my budget grows (hopefully!). I am excited to see where this set takes me.
I do want to make it clear that my goal with this set is not to build a collection of "finest known" and I don't have any sort of min or max grade in mind. My goal is to build a set of nice looking, well matched examples of each type of coin from this date and mintmark. I'm looking for coins that I have fun with, that demonstrate the history of this chaotic year at the Carson City mint.
Mintage and survival rates:
I've consulted publications as well as Coinfacts to form my estimates, the best I could.
10c
Original mintage: 200,000
Survival estimate: 700
25c
Original mintage: 996,000
Survival estimate: 1500
50c
Original mintage: 62,000
Survival estimate: 150
$1 Trade
Original mintage: 97,000 (estimated approx. 44k were melted)
Survival estimate: 350
$1 Morgan
Original mintage: 2,212,000
Survival estimate: 30k+
$5
Original mintage: 9,054
Survival estimate: Less than 100
$10
Original mintage: 3,244
Survival estimate: 60-75
$20
Original mintage: 13,180
Survival estimate: 400
Denominations and varieties:
For the 10c, 25c, 50c and T$1, no coins were minted after 1878 in Carson City, however gold issues continued past '78. This year is significant in that it is the last year of issue for all silver denominations not called a Morgan dollar. Accordingly, this was the first year of issue for the Morgan dollar which explains the previously mentioned decision to stop minting all other silver coinage in Carson City.
10c
This dime is much harder to find than the mintage or survival figures would lead us to believe. There are 2 different reverse types with 3 varieties of the 2nd reverse. Some doubling is seen on ONE DIME and some interesting die cracks exist on later die states. The type 1 reverse seems a little harder to find than the type 2.
25c
After the Morgan, this is the easiest coin to locate in the 78-CC set. A very interesting die scratch, which some have referred to as a canceled die, exists on many of the 78-CC quarters. The obverse scratch stretches from Liberty's left side through knee. A smaller die scratch exists on the reverse through the upper portion of the shield. The scratched variety is not rare, but it's a neat one that makes one ponder how it came to exist. Did the mint stop producing quarters with the thought that no more quarters were needed, then change their mind? Possibly, since the production of quarters wound down early in the year as production of Morgans ramped up. I estimate the breakdown falls in the range of 50-50 or 60-40 with slightly more non-scratched die coins available. 3 varieties exist with die scratch, the Briggs 1-A, 1-B and 2-B.
50c
One of, if not the key to this set. Nice examples are very tough and are held tightly. Occasionally you'll see one available in the G-VG range, but XF to AU coins are rare with only 18 graded by PCGS in XF-AU combined. Only a single variety is known.
$1 Trade
From the PCGS Coinfacts page, David Hall states, "Long time coin dealer Jack Beymer, who has handled as many key date coins as anyone, says he has handled more 1794 dollars than 1878-CC trade dollars. This is an incredible statement and shows how truly rare this coin is in any grade." Not often seen at auction in high AU or MS grades. A single variety is known. Chopmarked coins are known, but not readily available - I would love to own a nice original chop-marked example.
$1 Morgan
This coin is the reason for many of the low mintages for the other Carson City coins of this date. Many VAM varieties exist but don't really interest me.
$5
Known for weak striking details, especially at the edges/dentils. Definitely not the finest example of the $5 Liberty ever minted. Seen occasionally at auction, but not with any frequency. A single variety is known.
$10
Another stopper for this set that is rarely seen at auction. This year saw the second lowest mintage figure in the CC eagle series, behind the 70-CC. Like the 78-CC half-eagle, the eagle is also known for poor striking details. Most examples fall in the VF grade range, but the coin is rare in any grade. A single variety is known.
$20
The most available of the three CC gold issues for this date. Two varieties are known for this date, the Winter 1-A and 2-B. The 1-A is much more common and exhibits a very noticeable vertical die scratch on Liberty's neck, as well as some interesting lumps and die scratches on the reverse near TWENTY DOLLARS. The first C of the mintmark is higher than the second. The 2-B variety is much tougher to find (although not nearly as rare as quoted in Winter's book as "2 known"). This variety does not exhibit the prominent obverse die scratch or reverse defects. The first C of the mintmark is lower than the second. I estimate the coins available are in the range of 10 to 1 variety 1-A vs. 2-B. A nice example of the Type 1-A showing the vertical die scratch on Liberty's neck is shown here:
HA Link
Where I'm at so far:
I've been able to locate 3 of the 4 keys for this set, the half-eagle, eagle and trade dollar. I've passed up a few low-ish grade halves that were not right for my set. A few double eagles were available at Long Beach in February, but both were in NGC holders and were not very original in appearance. One was even a 2-B variety and was tough to pass on.
Big thanks to a few forum members, first to CarsonCityGold for offering the Morgan to me, a really nice looking coin. A HUGE thanks to DIMEMAN for pointing me to the Trade Dollar, you just don't have the opportunity to own a coin like that too often and I almost missed out on this one. Thanks also to RYK for chatting briefly about the eagle and offering good advice like usual.
Now, onto the coins…
1878-CC 10c PCGS MS65 CAC
Superb color and luster on this little guy.
1878-CC 25c PCGS AU55
A really nice example of the seated quarter with only slight rub and a small grade limiting pin-scratch from the date to the base near Liberty's foot. This example shows the die scratch through Liberty's waist as well as the scratch through the horizontal shield bands mentioned above.
1878-CC $1 Trade PCGS AU58
The centerpiece of my collection, this coin filled two holes for me (also included in my Trade Dollar collection). Very smooth fields with old ANACS target toning and great remaining luster. A small divot at Liberty's knee as well as a very minor reverse scratch are the only distractions worth mentioning. A true GEM AU coin.
1878-CC $1 Morgan PCGS MS64 CAC
The set wouldn't be complete without a Morgan and I've included this nicely toned example. A typical MS64 with some abrasions on Liberty's cheek. The toning is very natural, dominated by dark reddish tones with a little teal luster thrown in.
1878-CC $5 PCGS VF30 CAC
This coins shows the poor strike, especially from 2 to 5 o'clock in the obverse stars and denticles, and almost the entirety of the reverse denticles. The color is lemon-orange with some luster, probably lightly cleaned at some point and re-toned, typical of the majority of old gold. Some loss of detail exists but the features and letters are still very distinguishable, including the motto.
1878-CC $10 PCGS VF35 CAC
The appearance of this gold is more pleasing than the trueview shows, in my opinion. There's still a good amount of luster to the fields although it is not complete. No major dings on Liberty's cheek or neck, which is pretty rare for the grade. The reverse motto and denticles from 12 to 2 o'clock show strike weakness. The color is pale gold with apricot tone around the features.
1878-CC $20 PCGS VF35 CAC
The perfect look for a 35, pleasing soft gold appearance with a little crust around the details, and enough luster remaining to still shine a little. This one is a personal favorite from my collection.
*Note: the three gold pieces match better in hand. They were true viewed at different times and apparently had different lighting and/or post processing applied.
That wraps it up for now. I welcome any questions, comments, suggestions, criticisms jokes, snide remarks and compliments.
- Dan
Why did I choose 1878-CC? A couple of reasons, really. Least important but what started the idea is that my birth year falls 100 years after 1878. Why Carson City? I grew up in northern California, not too far from Carson City Nevada, right in the heart of "gold country". The proximity to Carson City has led to an affinity for CC coins. I visited a lot of the old gold and silver mines during my formative years. But the main reason I love 78-CC coins is the numismatic history, 1878 was a very busy and chaotic year for coins at the Carson City mint and it led to some interesting mintage figures and varieties (which I will describe below). A motivating factor with this set is that it forces me to slow down and wait for the coins. It's not often that many of these coins become available, let alone the right example for my set. I fully expect this set to take years to complete and possibly a lifetime to complete should I decide to upgrade when really high end examples become available as my budget grows (hopefully!). I am excited to see where this set takes me.
I do want to make it clear that my goal with this set is not to build a collection of "finest known" and I don't have any sort of min or max grade in mind. My goal is to build a set of nice looking, well matched examples of each type of coin from this date and mintmark. I'm looking for coins that I have fun with, that demonstrate the history of this chaotic year at the Carson City mint.
Mintage and survival rates:
I've consulted publications as well as Coinfacts to form my estimates, the best I could.
10c
Original mintage: 200,000
Survival estimate: 700
25c
Original mintage: 996,000
Survival estimate: 1500
50c
Original mintage: 62,000
Survival estimate: 150
$1 Trade
Original mintage: 97,000 (estimated approx. 44k were melted)
Survival estimate: 350
$1 Morgan
Original mintage: 2,212,000
Survival estimate: 30k+
$5
Original mintage: 9,054
Survival estimate: Less than 100
$10
Original mintage: 3,244
Survival estimate: 60-75
$20
Original mintage: 13,180
Survival estimate: 400
Denominations and varieties:
For the 10c, 25c, 50c and T$1, no coins were minted after 1878 in Carson City, however gold issues continued past '78. This year is significant in that it is the last year of issue for all silver denominations not called a Morgan dollar. Accordingly, this was the first year of issue for the Morgan dollar which explains the previously mentioned decision to stop minting all other silver coinage in Carson City.
10c
This dime is much harder to find than the mintage or survival figures would lead us to believe. There are 2 different reverse types with 3 varieties of the 2nd reverse. Some doubling is seen on ONE DIME and some interesting die cracks exist on later die states. The type 1 reverse seems a little harder to find than the type 2.
25c
After the Morgan, this is the easiest coin to locate in the 78-CC set. A very interesting die scratch, which some have referred to as a canceled die, exists on many of the 78-CC quarters. The obverse scratch stretches from Liberty's left side through knee. A smaller die scratch exists on the reverse through the upper portion of the shield. The scratched variety is not rare, but it's a neat one that makes one ponder how it came to exist. Did the mint stop producing quarters with the thought that no more quarters were needed, then change their mind? Possibly, since the production of quarters wound down early in the year as production of Morgans ramped up. I estimate the breakdown falls in the range of 50-50 or 60-40 with slightly more non-scratched die coins available. 3 varieties exist with die scratch, the Briggs 1-A, 1-B and 2-B.
50c
One of, if not the key to this set. Nice examples are very tough and are held tightly. Occasionally you'll see one available in the G-VG range, but XF to AU coins are rare with only 18 graded by PCGS in XF-AU combined. Only a single variety is known.
$1 Trade
From the PCGS Coinfacts page, David Hall states, "Long time coin dealer Jack Beymer, who has handled as many key date coins as anyone, says he has handled more 1794 dollars than 1878-CC trade dollars. This is an incredible statement and shows how truly rare this coin is in any grade." Not often seen at auction in high AU or MS grades. A single variety is known. Chopmarked coins are known, but not readily available - I would love to own a nice original chop-marked example.
$1 Morgan
This coin is the reason for many of the low mintages for the other Carson City coins of this date. Many VAM varieties exist but don't really interest me.
$5
Known for weak striking details, especially at the edges/dentils. Definitely not the finest example of the $5 Liberty ever minted. Seen occasionally at auction, but not with any frequency. A single variety is known.
$10
Another stopper for this set that is rarely seen at auction. This year saw the second lowest mintage figure in the CC eagle series, behind the 70-CC. Like the 78-CC half-eagle, the eagle is also known for poor striking details. Most examples fall in the VF grade range, but the coin is rare in any grade. A single variety is known.
$20
The most available of the three CC gold issues for this date. Two varieties are known for this date, the Winter 1-A and 2-B. The 1-A is much more common and exhibits a very noticeable vertical die scratch on Liberty's neck, as well as some interesting lumps and die scratches on the reverse near TWENTY DOLLARS. The first C of the mintmark is higher than the second. The 2-B variety is much tougher to find (although not nearly as rare as quoted in Winter's book as "2 known"). This variety does not exhibit the prominent obverse die scratch or reverse defects. The first C of the mintmark is lower than the second. I estimate the coins available are in the range of 10 to 1 variety 1-A vs. 2-B. A nice example of the Type 1-A showing the vertical die scratch on Liberty's neck is shown here:
HA Link
Where I'm at so far:
I've been able to locate 3 of the 4 keys for this set, the half-eagle, eagle and trade dollar. I've passed up a few low-ish grade halves that were not right for my set. A few double eagles were available at Long Beach in February, but both were in NGC holders and were not very original in appearance. One was even a 2-B variety and was tough to pass on.
Big thanks to a few forum members, first to CarsonCityGold for offering the Morgan to me, a really nice looking coin. A HUGE thanks to DIMEMAN for pointing me to the Trade Dollar, you just don't have the opportunity to own a coin like that too often and I almost missed out on this one. Thanks also to RYK for chatting briefly about the eagle and offering good advice like usual.
Now, onto the coins…
1878-CC 10c PCGS MS65 CAC
Superb color and luster on this little guy.
1878-CC 25c PCGS AU55
A really nice example of the seated quarter with only slight rub and a small grade limiting pin-scratch from the date to the base near Liberty's foot. This example shows the die scratch through Liberty's waist as well as the scratch through the horizontal shield bands mentioned above.
1878-CC $1 Trade PCGS AU58
The centerpiece of my collection, this coin filled two holes for me (also included in my Trade Dollar collection). Very smooth fields with old ANACS target toning and great remaining luster. A small divot at Liberty's knee as well as a very minor reverse scratch are the only distractions worth mentioning. A true GEM AU coin.
1878-CC $1 Morgan PCGS MS64 CAC
The set wouldn't be complete without a Morgan and I've included this nicely toned example. A typical MS64 with some abrasions on Liberty's cheek. The toning is very natural, dominated by dark reddish tones with a little teal luster thrown in.
1878-CC $5 PCGS VF30 CAC
This coins shows the poor strike, especially from 2 to 5 o'clock in the obverse stars and denticles, and almost the entirety of the reverse denticles. The color is lemon-orange with some luster, probably lightly cleaned at some point and re-toned, typical of the majority of old gold. Some loss of detail exists but the features and letters are still very distinguishable, including the motto.
1878-CC $10 PCGS VF35 CAC
The appearance of this gold is more pleasing than the trueview shows, in my opinion. There's still a good amount of luster to the fields although it is not complete. No major dings on Liberty's cheek or neck, which is pretty rare for the grade. The reverse motto and denticles from 12 to 2 o'clock show strike weakness. The color is pale gold with apricot tone around the features.
1878-CC $20 PCGS VF35 CAC
The perfect look for a 35, pleasing soft gold appearance with a little crust around the details, and enough luster remaining to still shine a little. This one is a personal favorite from my collection.
*Note: the three gold pieces match better in hand. They were true viewed at different times and apparently had different lighting and/or post processing applied.
That wraps it up for now. I welcome any questions, comments, suggestions, criticisms jokes, snide remarks and compliments.
- Dan
0
Comments
nice examples too...as eye appeal outweighs grades in my eyes too
congrats
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Jacob
I love personally defined collections and think it is at the core of what the hobby is/should be about. It shows great imagination and intellectual curiosity doing so and not allowing others to define ones goals. Well done Dan and congratulations.
RE the quarter, I like the coin but would love an upgrade. For some reason I've always preferred the smaller coins to be a little lighter and less toned than the bigger ones. One reason I like this coin as is - it shows off the die scratch well. Any darker toned and it would be hidden. I plan to find a nicer example in the non die-scratched variety to complement this one.
Mike
Outstanding! MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Lance.
Great coin. Do note that there are two varieties - a normal mintmark and a far right mintmark. Yours is the latter.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Dan, what a great start on a really neat set of coins to collect.
Glad I could help on the Trade Dollar.....it's a beautiful coin!
Too bad you can't show a pic of the 1878-CC Half Counterfeit
I've got no snide remarks. Awesome group!
<< <i>
Great coin. Do note that there are two varieties - a normal mintmark and a far right mintmark. Yours is the latter. >>
While TDN has forgotten more about the series than I know; There are actual a couple of Rev dies known for the 78cc and yours isn't Breen 5824 which has the far right mint mark. A picture of a certain top pop coin is included to compare the mintmarks. Note the position compared to the D in Dollar
This is what I considered to be normal position, so I guess there are indeed at least 3 different mintmark positions.
<< <i> I wonder - are there three dies? >>
Yes and I want to say maybe a 4th Rev die too but 2 Obv known. I need to go back into my notes but it is lat here on the east cost and the baby gets up early.
I personally don't get too excited about mintmark placement varieties. They can however be very helpful in attributing other more major varieties. But your right TDN, there are a few 78-CC trade dollar varieties that I neglected to mention above.
<< <i>I've got a friend also building an 1878 CC set. It's a great idea, because the only CC denomination that this date misses is the 20c, and the only other CC coin type the date misses is the Seated dollar. The 1878 CC set is a really cool concept, and you're doing a great job in coin selection. >>
Thank you. I'm pretty bummed they didn't coin a 20c this year. I like the twenty center and I wish there was.
That's wild that someone else is doing this, but I'm not shocked. It's a great set of coins and a real challenge.
<< <i>I too love the Trade Dollar.
Too bad you can't show a pic of the 1878-CC Half Counterfeit
WHO SAYS!?
Everyone, I completely forgot to thank STONE, who was pretty awesome to me shortly after I joined the forum. He sent me what could possibly be the rarest "coin" in my set, the only known 1878-CC 50c period counterfeit, pictured below. The coin is cast, with lead composition. Very cool!
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
<< <i>
Great coin. Do note that there are two varieties - a normal mintmark and a far right mintmark. Yours is the latter. >>
Wow what a great coin! With the advent of the everyman's registry set this coin becomes even more desirable. AU-58 coins are in very high demand these days and rare dates even more so.
Bob
<< <i>Good point Bob, although there isn't a ton of action on the everyman Trade Dollar registry. In my opinion, it's about value. The price guide says $13.5k for a 78-CC in 58, and $80k in 64. I've seen many trade dollars in 64 that didn't look nearly as nice as this 58, to my eyes. I can live with a little rub. The nice toning masks much of the surface luster loss on an AU vs. MS coin as well. This coin is hard to find and not cheap in any grade, but I decided the 58 was the sweet spot, balancing price and quality. Fortunately it's also a beautiful coin. >>
I agree with you Dan, the majority of MS60-64s have terrible luster. Then again most AU Trade Dollars are pretty ugly in their own regards too.
<< <i>I agree with you Dan, the majority of MS60-64s have terrible luster. Then again most AU Trade Dollars are pretty ugly in their own regards too. >>
If you're referring to the gobs of cleaned AU coins, I agree. But there are some really beautiful and original AU trade dollars out there. Coins that are much more original than this 78-CC. I just found a 76-S Type I/I, fairly common coin, in high AU with amazingly original smoky blue and lavender surfaces. I've never seen a Morgan with this kind of look, there's just something about trade dollars that is very attractive to me. Wish I had a picture of the 76-S to show you what I mean.
<< <i>That coin is a classic slider and the only rub I see is on the right Obv field between the leg and the out reached arm. You can see little luster halos around stars 1-4. Thats about it though and the high points look good >>
For rub, that's it. The fields show a fair amount of micro-abrasions too, so this coin is definitely AU. I recently had it re-graded with a few other coins I was sending in and it came back 58 (no change). No surprise there, although I wouldn't have argued with a plus, which is matter of taste at this point.
Now if there were just any nice looking 78CC dimes out there?
My #1 Low Ball Peace Dollar Set
<< <i>Hi Dan, You're making great progress. Looking good!
Now if there were just any nice looking 78CC dimes out there?
Hah!
I'm revising my earlier estimate:
10c
Original mintage: 200,000
Survival estimate: 700
Survival estimate not counting a certain forum members "hoard": 650ish
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I've added a couple more fantastic coins since first posting this thread...
1878-CC 10c PCGS MS65 CAC
1878-CC $20 PCGS VF35 CAC
I'm especially fond of the double eagle, it's one of those coins to be enjoyed.
www.brunkauctions.com
As to 78-CC Trade dollar varieties, McCloskey in issue #78 of the Gobrecht Journal lists four reverse varieties: Breen 5822, Breen 5823, Breen 5824, and a fourth variety unlisted by Breen. James Sneddon, a Trade dollar expert who does not post here but publishes widely in other journals, has mentioned a possible fifth reverse variety, an obverse variety with a repunched 8 and possibly a variety with a double die reverse. (This is probably way more than most readers of this post want to know about 78-CC Trade dollar varieties. I have to admit I collect Trade dollars and I don't even know what reverse types mine are.)
Love the look of the gold too.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"