I don't understand OPC. INTERESTING UPDATE!

EagleEyeKid · March 5, 2012 7:03AM

Received my sub today and was baffled at these 3 cards. How are they 8s?
I always have to crack and resub cards and they always bump. Centered, sharp corners, and OPC fuzz.
Not sure what I'm missing.

ahkmedbinladen · March 5, 2012 7:27AM

Look like 9s from here

ezyshooter · March 5, 2012 7:32AM

Don't feel bad PSA pocketed almost 3,000.00 dollars in grading fees on my 602 card sub. That's why i did not want to post results. I put a hold on it for Joe to look into. I didn't recieve my first PSA 10 until card #504 !! Are you kidding me !! I've been doing cards for years and i'm not new to grading game but come on 504 cards before i get a 10. I'm sure nothing will be done, like usual. I've been waiting for over a week without a responce from Joe. Either the cards got damaged or the person who graded them deals with new cards so they are expecting perfect cuts. If i did not think a card was going to grade at least a PSA 8 i did not send it in. In some cases like the years of 1976,77,78 and 81 if i did not feel that the card was at least a PSA 9 i did not send it in.
I have 6's and 7's coming back all OPC.... Sure i got some 9's but when i do get them back i will be posting cards for all PSA to see what a PSA 6,7,8,9 look like. I'll tell you right now you will not be able to tell the PSA 7's from the 9's.
Also i kept a few breakout's from from past subs and also a crackout from a KSA and ISA grading to show everybody the results. I've been living over a week of Hell without hearing from Joe wondering what the heck happened here. I've been banging my head off the wall. My wife is a great grader herself now just because of me. Cards that were what i considered gimme 10's are coming back 8's.
You know they say if the grade doesn't fit then resubmit. Well forget it !! I'll start selling my cards raw before i submit anymore cards. If you don't get a grader who knows anything about OPC rough cuts then you are screwed, PERIOD !! The few PSA 9's i got on the early 70's i'm sure they were on the cards that had barely any OPC rough cut.
I looked at these cards at least twice with a 10X loope so what the heck did the grader see??????????????
Steve

Hallco · March 5, 2012 7:45AM

I don't get it either. Unless there is something going on with the corners that we are not seeing, I think they are all solid 9s!

jimrad · March 5, 2012 7:49AM

I will not sub an OPC because of exactly what is being discussed here.

grote15 · March 5, 2012 7:49AM

The OP is also known for being a sharp grader. I just think that graders are not familiar with the nuances of the OPC issue or the rough cut.

vladguerrero · March 5, 2012 8:10AM

<< <i>I just think that graders are not familiar with the nuances of the OPC issue or the rough cut. >>

But your opinion is based on PSA standards so what you are saying is that some graders do not know the PSA standards for OPC issues.

EagleEyeKid · March 5, 2012 8:16AM

I'm looking at these cards right now, and I can't see anything that would make them 8s.
Thought for sure all 3 would grade at least a 9 and maybe the Langway had a shot at a 10. There's
no white on the back edges of the Langway. I have my pliers and screwdriver in front of me. Gonna
try one more time.

nam812 · March 5, 2012 8:20AM

ezshooter - You wont hear back from Joe again. In my case (a few year ago) I was waiting to hear back from Joe about a sub where I was unhappy with the results just like you, and then one day there were 2 new poppages showing in my account. One for cards that stayed the same grade and another for cards that had the grades changed. It was a while ago, but i'm pretty sure it went like that (or close to it).

fkw · March 5, 2012 8:27AM

Please Submit Again = PSA

they like to double dip on ya all lol

grote15 · March 5, 2012 8:28AM

< I just think that graders are not familiar with the nuances of the OPC issue or the rough cut. >>

But your opinion is based on PSA standards so what you are saying is that some graders do not know the PSA standards for OPC issues.

PSA has graders that specialize in certain issues and eras of cards. Joe has stated that on these boards. I've gotten PSA 9s and 10s on 70s OPC baseball cards with the rough cut and I've gotten 7s and 8s on those same cards. Even on this board, there are some who say the rough cut should not be a detrimental factor when grading the card (officially, it should not), and those that have a hard time calling a card with rough sides mint or gem mint. All grading is subjective to some extent, but given the scarcity of OPC product and the number of OPC cards submitted for grading in general, it's not surprising that results will vary..and OPC is not the only issue that features that phenomenon, either.

jimrad · March 5, 2012 8:32AM

Getting OPC cards graded most of the time

EagleEyeKid · March 5, 2012 8:45AM

My OPC grades have been all over the place. From 8s to 10s, and like Grote said they all look the same to me.
To me, I have to send them in with the rough cuts/fuzz because that's how they came out of packs and I also like
them that way as well....that's the beauty of the OPC. Right now it's still a guessing game with OPC. I try to look
for quality centered issues, then corners come next. As far as edges lol....you tell me.

tsalems1 · March 5, 2012 9:07AM

I do lots of OPC baseball and not happy over my last sub. I sent in cards that came back 8's and are as strong or stronger than many of my 10's!

Im sending in another big batch and have my fingers crossed. Feel like im just pissing money away sometimes when I see the grades.
Cant tell you how many 1977 opc baseball cards ive got with the (MC) qualifier with ever so slight of green showing on the back edge, yet
I see PSA 9 Ryan cards which get $300-$500 per with quarter inch of green on the edge (thats just 1 example!)

olb31 · March 5, 2012 9:08AM

IF YOU WANT 10'S PLEASE SEE 4SC!!!

ezyshooter · March 5, 2012 10:30AM

Here are 2 examples of what the bigger submitters get away with. We are only human and we all make mistakes, even graders. The Chelios in my opinion should not be a PSA 10. Centering might be right in there for a PSA 10 but appearnce wise with that much tilt ?? Not in my book.
As for the Campbell, well if you cannot see what's missing your not looking to good. I erased the cert's and will not mention who these are from because i am not into bashing other sellers. This is not the seller's fault to begin with. And again i will say that everybody makes mistakes but it did not take me long to find these mistakes.
Can you see what's missing on the Campbell ?
Steve

EagleEyeKid · March 5, 2012 10:49AM

Can you see what's missing on the Campbell

Wtf?!?

firedawg45 · March 5, 2012 10:54AM

i had a called scott single operations manager today on my sub that popped and got 34 psa 8's and 1 psa 9 on my 77 topps baseball from a vending run. last month i subbed 10 and got 9 psa 9' from the same box, pissed to say the least i tried to catch them before they shipped and was to late. scott said to end them back to him for review. lets see how this goes. he always been great when i have problem in the past, psa i think is losing touch cause they are in a hurry lately.

Hank36 · March 5, 2012 11:33AM

This might explain something (or it might not)--I'm new to this; I submitted these back in January:

ezyshooter · March 5, 2012 11:33AM

OPC is frustating to say the least. But i have subbed the same years i have submitted this time around with much better results then this. I believe out of the 602 card sub i recieved 11 PSA 10's and basically all of those were are the cards from the 80's that were at the end of the submission.
100 card subs that i have sent in without any 80's just 70's i pulled more PSA 10's then this sub.
Maybe i'm missing something but i can't believe i missed something on over 500 cards ?? Especially when you have 7's and 8's coming back in years like 78 and 81 OPC
Even if no grades get changed i really need to know what i missed because my head is getting really sore from banging it !!
Anybody have some extra strength Tylenol !!
Cheers, Steve

ezyshooter · March 5, 2012 11:38AM

This might explain something (or it might not)--I'm new to this; I submitted these back in January:

Those are graded properly to me.
The first 2 are off centered, allthough i have seen 8's centered like that but usually from the big submiters.
The 1981 is a PSA 7 because of the snow on the front of the card. Automatic PSA 7 with that much snow.
You can get a PSA 9 with snow but has to be very little snow and faint.

Steve

EagleEyeKid · March 5, 2012 12:41PM

Well I cracked all 3 cards open and here are close up scans of the front & back.
Do you guys see anything that would knock it to an 8?

Here's Prostein's card that I was outbid on.

ezyshooter · March 5, 2012 3:08PM

Without card in hand it is hard to put a grade on them because of surface. I know you know what to look for so this is what i came up with.
Card 1 PSA 9-10 - Not to sure about the white blemishes(card or because of high res. scans)
Card 2 PSA 9 - A couple of extra white surface blemishes
Card 3 PSA 10 - White blemishes match first card in a couple areas meaning to lead me to believe this was on all cards from that year

JMHO
No way are they 8's
Cheers, Steve

brendanb438 · March 5, 2012 4:08PM

Really sounds like PSA is grading harder than ever as of late on cards from the 70s and 80s. Makes you wonder if they are just trying to cash in as much as possible on the crack and resub game.

Hank36 · March 5, 2012 7:05PM

<< <i>This might explain something (or it might not)--I'm new to this; I submitted these back in January:

Those are graded properly to me.
The first 2 are off centered, allthough i have seen 8's centered like that but usually from the big submiters.
The 1981 is a PSA 7 because of the snow on the front of the card. Automatic PSA 7 with that much snow.
You can get a PSA 9 with snow but has to be very little snow and faint.

Steve >>

Here's where I might have been led astray--two I didn't submit. Check out the centering on the 1981, and that splotch on the 1980 (right above the "P" in "Power") is even more noticible in person

pmcollectour · March 5, 2012 7:28PM

I'm not one who ever got caught up in the difference between a PSA 8,9, or 10.

I know the price different between an 8 and a 10 can be thousands of dollars in some cases, but to me, all three
grades are very nice cards. A PSA 8 is a beauty of a card, and sellers get killed on these beauties because there are so many of them.

PSA 9's are gems too, and bring better dollars.

PSA 10's are a crap shoot as we all know, and bring ridiculous money for cards that really aren't that much better then 9's and most 8's.

If anyone here still thinks that 10's are better then 9's and some 8's, then it's time to wise up.

jackstraw · March 5, 2012 7:44PM

I am surprised that Langway didn't grade out a 9? The first Francis is iffy but the second
looks like 9 quality to me. Probsteins scan is too big for my monitor so I can't really get a good
look at it but as a life long Whalers fan I have seen thousands of Francis rookies and they all
to me had a slight tilt that always pissed me off. For the life of me I can't figure it out? Your second one and Probsteins
almost doesn't seem to have it but like I said its too big for me to see. I don't think they should be knocked
down a grade because of it but were the heck is the 8.5??

fergie23 · March 5, 2012 7:51PM

Bryan the first two are easy 9s with IMO shots at a 10. On the last Francis the bottom two corners do not look quite as sharp and probably is an 8.

Hank36 don't make the mistake of comparing your cards to weak 8s. Your cards look fairly graded.

Ezy, other than the big submitters most folks refrain from really large subs because of the chance of getting a picky grader. Best of luck with having your cards reviewed before they are sent out. I have had mixed results when asking for a review before. As for your examples there is nothing wrong with that Chelios, PSA is not nearly as harsh on tilt as the folks on this board. The Campbell on the other hand looks bad unless that is a print defect found on all of them.

Cheers,

Robb

otwcards · March 5, 2012 8:06PM

The only reason that all three may have been held back, in my opinion, is that there is a little snow on the Langway (not enough to knock an otherwise MINT cards to an 8, IMHO) and the typical diamond cut to the Francis (one of which is a bit more tilted than the other).

EagleEyeKid · June 15, 2012 5:59AM

Well I just got poppage today. The 3 mentioned cards were all cracked out as you can see and here are
my latest results on the crack and resub. They are highlighted in bold.

Order #20593565 / Submission #5215416
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type
1 1 19856352 GEM MINT 10 1997 DONRUSS PREFERRED 162 MARIAN HOSSA Card
1 2 19856353 GEM MINT 10 1997 DONRUSS PREFERRED 162 MARIAN HOSSA Card
2 1 19856354 GEM MINT 10 1997 UPPER DECK BLACK DIAMOND 114 DANIEL SEDIN SINGLE Card
3 1 19856355 GEM MINT 10 1997 UPPER DECK BLACK DIAMOND 150 VINCENT LECAVALIER SINGLE Card
3 2 19856356 GEM MINT 10 1997 UPPER DECK BLACK DIAMOND 150 VINCENT LECAVALIER SINGLE Card
4 1 19856357 GEM MINT 10 1997 UPPER DECK BLACK DIAMOND 114 DANIEL SEDIN TRIPLE Card
5 1 19856358 GEM MINT 10 1997 ZENITH 95 VINCENT LECAVALIER Card
5 2 19856359 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1997 ZENITH 95 VINCENT LECAVALIER Card
6 1 19856360 GEM MINT 10 1997 SP AUTHENTIC 186 ZDENO CHARA Card Was PSA 8

7 1 19856361 GEM MINT 10 1980 O-PEE-CHEE 344 ROD LANGWAY Card Now $400

8 1 19856362 GEM MINT 10 2003 SP AUTHENTIC 137 ERIC STAAL AUTOGRAPH Card
8 2 19856363 GEM MINT 10 2003 SP AUTHENTIC 137 ERIC STAAL AUTOGRAPH Card
9 1 19856364 GEM MINT 10 1984 O-PEE-CHEE 17 DAVE ANDREYCHUK Card $1 Raw on Ebay

10 1 19856365 GEM MINT 10 2005 SP AUTHENTIC 132 COREY PERRY AUTOGRAPH Card
10 2 19856366 GEM MINT 10 2005 SP AUTHENTIC 132 COREY PERRY AUTOGRAPH Card
11 1 19856367 MINT 9 1982 O-PEE-CHEE 123 RON FRANCIS Card
11 2 19856368 MINT 9 1982 O-PEE-CHEE 123 RON FRANCIS Card
12 1 19856369 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 295 JEFF SKINNER AUTOGRAPH Card Was PSA 9

13 1 19856370 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 288 KEVIN SHATTENKIRK AUTOGRAPH Card
14 1 19856371 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 305 ALEXANDER BURMISTROV AUTOGRAPH Card
14 2 19856372 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 305 ALEXANDER BURMISTROV AUTOGRAPH Card
15 1 19856373 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 308 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
15 2 19856374 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 308 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
15 3 19856375 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 308 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
16 1 19856376 GEM MINT 10 2010 PANINI ZENITH 204 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
16 2 19856377 GEM MINT 10 2010 PANINI ZENITH 204 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
16 3 19856378 GEM MINT 10 2010 PANINI ZENITH 204 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 1 19856379 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 2 19856380 MINT 9 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 3 19856381 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 4 19856382 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 5 19856383 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 6 19856384 MINT 9 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 7 19856385 MINT 9 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 8 19856386 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 9 19856387 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 10 19856388 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 11 19856389 MINT 9 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
17 12 19856390 GEM MINT 10 2010 PLAYOFF CONTENDERS 117 KYLE PALMIERI AUTOGRAPH Card
18 1 19856391 GEM MINT 10 2010 PANINI ZENITH DONRUSS ELITE INSERT AUTOGRAPH 226 BRANDON PIRRI Card
19 1 19856392 GEM MINT 10 2010 PANINI ZENITH 181 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
19 2 19856393 GEM MINT 10 2010 PANINI ZENITH 181 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
20 1 19856394 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 286 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
20 2 19856395 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 286 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
20 3 19856396 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 286 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
20 4 19856397 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 286 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
20 5 19856398 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 286 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
20 6 19856399 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 286 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card
20 7 19856400 GEM MINT 10 2010 SP AUTHENTIC 286 BRANDON PIRRI AUTOGRAPH Card

Total Items: 49
Date Received: 4/9/2012
Date Shipped: N/A
Order Status: OK

cpamike · June 15, 2012 6:10AM

Bryan, I'm sorry you had to do the crack and resubmit, but I'm glad they got to the right grader this time. Was Scott right about some snow on the Langway or was it from your scanner? Either way, congrats!!!

EagleEyeKid · June 15, 2012 6:16AM

There was no snow that I can see. Could be my cheap 3 in one scanner.
I'm happy that one rec'd a 10 for my pc. I'll keep at least one Francis for my pc
until I can get an upgrade.

Hallco · June 15, 2012 6:27AM

<< <i>There was no snow that I can see. Could be my cheap 3 in one scanner.
I'm happy that one rec'd a 10 for my pc. I'll keep at least one Francis for my pc
until I can get an upgrade. >>

Sweet! I used to own a BVG 10 Langway and a Francis in "8" that looked better than some of the cards in 9 holders at the time! Glad you got your grades on those!

BaltimoreYankee · June 15, 2012 7:11AM

Wow. Nice work on the re-sub. Took awhile and a lot of frustration for you but congratulations!

54topps · June 15, 2012 7:12AM

Way to go on the upgrades. That Langway is a beauty.

brendanb438 · June 15, 2012 7:46AM

This is the type of bullshiat that makes me hate PSA. How in the hell can they seriously undergrade these the first time around without it being on purpose so that people have to repay to resub?

I would throw a biaatch fit and demand some credit vouchers for this crap.

grote15 · June 15, 2012 7:57AM

As long as human beings are doing the grading, there are going to be fluctuations in the grades. That's why they offer a review service level, too. The likelihood of a card being undergraded the first time around is really no greater than a card being overgraded the first time around, it's just that we notice the undergradres. It is what it is. I don't think this situation warrants vouchers, in any event.

Congrats on the upgrades!

ThoseBackPages · June 15, 2012 8:20AM

Beautiful Poppage!

swartz1 · June 15, 2012 8:28AM

cant believe this thread is still here...

I don't understand OPC. INTERESTING UPDATE!

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