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heres one for the collectors of counterfeits.

ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
how much would you think this is worth ?

image

its an old counterfeiters mold made of copper, for "making" 1861 seated quarters.

regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything

Comments

  • JamesMurrayJamesMurray Posts: 4,036 ✭
    Probably quite a bit although im not seeing any great detail on the mold.
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    edited because in the description it said 1861 but looks more like an 1842
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Too much surface corrosion to make any credible counterfeits so I'll have to pass.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    the value wouldnt be in the counterfeits it could make, but rather the history behind it.
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • mrpaseomrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
    Without much knowledge on the topic, I would guess 10-15... Years. Much the same as owning a till to make moonshine in a dry county.

    Now if you would just provide an address the Secret Service will be paying you a visit.

    Ray
  • JamesMurrayJamesMurray Posts: 4,036 ✭
    A bit like collecting anonymous bank robbers masks , i dont think i'd buy it unless it was for peanuts but im sure the bidding will be lively.
  • atarianatarian Posts: 3,116 ✭
    I would so like to buy this. these things interest me greatly.
    Founder of the NDCCA. *WAM Count : 025. *NDCCA Database Count : 2,610. *You suck 6/24/10. <3 In memory of Tiggar 5/21/1994 - 5/28/2010 <3
    image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nothing to me.

    I own several coin dies, including those that were used to strike U.S. mint coinage and a couple of token dies, but I have no interest in the stuff crooks use to make counterfeits.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    i was the underbidder at 500, i didnt think it would even get to that level
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My biggest concern would be the government would declare it illegal to own and would confiscate it. Other than that, I guess stories about nefarious activities are interesting, but somehow I doubt that the person who made this signed his work. Therefore discovering the actual history of the piece would be very hit or miss.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    i wouldnt expect to find the exact person that made the thing, just thought it would be very intertesting to own from the historical perspective. i can see how that could confuse someone
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • edix2001edix2001 Posts: 3,388 ✭


    << <i>A bit like collecting anonymous bank robbers masks >>



    If the coin don't fit, you have to acquit.
    member, Greater Houston Coin Club - Edwin's Coin Cabinet
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like the mold was made by placing a real coin between two pieces of soft brass and hammering this "sandwich" with a sledge hammer to create the impressions in the each piece of brass. A gateway was then cut to pour the lead into the mold to make the coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275 ✭
    I could easily see this going for $1,000. I missed this auction(?), but I was outbid on a counterfeit
    8 Reales coin mould several months ago which went for >$500. That is a VERY COOL item!
  • JamesMurrayJamesMurray Posts: 4,036 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>A bit like collecting anonymous bank robbers masks >>



    If the coin don't fit, you have to acquit. >>



    Thats the first time ive genuinely laughed in a long time image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I could easily see this going for $1,000. I missed this auction(?), but I was outbid on a counterfeit
    8 Reales coin mould several months ago which went for >$500. That is a VERY COOL item! >>



    Sorry guys you are welcome to these items. It is just not my thing.

    And yes Perry Hall's description of how this piece was made is probably accurate.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The mint sold some cancelled dies that they used to strike the various 1996 Olympic commemorative coins. These dies are cancelled with an X and virtually all the design on these dies is still intact. These dies sold out in a few hours and the few I have had to be bought in the secondary market for a large premium over what the mint charged. If interested, search eBay as they come up fairly frequently but they aren't cheap.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have no clue on it's value... But a very kool piece indeed.image
    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that belongs in the inventory of forum member Pistareen (John Kraljevich). Esoterica like that usually finds him.
    JR Newsletter Online Edition
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    Very interesting piece. It's hard for me to believe that a metal that is soft enough to impress with a coin can be used for a molten liquid pour.......lead maybe?
    Becky
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Very interesting piece. It's hard for me to believe that a metal that is soft enough to impress with a coin can be used for a molten liquid pour.......lead maybe? >>



    Lead has a fairly low melting point so it would hurt the brass molds.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Very interesting piece. It's hard for me to believe that a metal that is soft enough to impress with a coin can be used for a molten liquid pour.......lead maybe? >>



    Just as mints do with dies, this device could be annealed (heated) to harden it.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting piece. I would love to own it.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Very interesting piece. It's hard for me to believe that a metal that is soft enough to impress with a coin can be used for a molten liquid pour.......lead maybe? >>



    Just as mints do with dies, this device could be annealed (heated) to harden it. >>



    It's not a die---it's a mold so it wouldn't have to be hardened. In fact, hardening metal will make it brittle which would mean that it may break if it were to be dropped on a hard surface such as a concrete floor.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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