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Chipper Jones PED free-How about a story of a player that did it right? Retire end of 2012 season 1s
Chargers49ersTigers
Posts: 909 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
After all we have heard about the players who took the short cut, and their inflated numbers, and lack of caring that they cheated. How about a player who did it right?
Here is a neat stat: Jones has hit .304 with 454 homers, 526 doubles, 1,455 walks, a .402 on-base percentage and a .533 slugging percentage. A quick glance at these numbers proves he has had a pretty special career. But a closer examination shows just how special it has been. Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig are the only other players in Major League history to record a career .300 batting average with at least 450 homers, 500 doubles, 1,400 walks, a .400 on-base percentage and a .500 slugging percentage.
Its nice to see some media time given to players that have done it right. I'm tired of the other stories.
Your the man Chipper!!!
mlb.com link
atlanta journal link click on the first line in the first paragraph
Here is a neat stat: Jones has hit .304 with 454 homers, 526 doubles, 1,455 walks, a .402 on-base percentage and a .533 slugging percentage. A quick glance at these numbers proves he has had a pretty special career. But a closer examination shows just how special it has been. Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig are the only other players in Major League history to record a career .300 batting average with at least 450 homers, 500 doubles, 1,400 walks, a .400 on-base percentage and a .500 slugging percentage.
Its nice to see some media time given to players that have done it right. I'm tired of the other stories.
Your the man Chipper!!!
mlb.com link
atlanta journal link click on the first line in the first paragraph
0
Comments
<< <i>Is this the same guy that some team(s) refer to as......"Larry"?
LARRY!.......LARRY!......LARRY!!!
Topps Triple Thread has a great 1/1 Larry patch card. Saw it on Ebay, but way overpriced.
<< <i>How do you know who used and who didn't? Everyone who used said they didn't and everyone who didn't use said they didn't. >>
hahahahahaha..........well, he's destroyed the Mets his entire carrer, you don't have to be on PED's to do that!
<< <i>How do you know who used and who didn't? Everyone who used said they didn't and everyone who didn't use said they didn't. >>
Leave it to a Mets fans to try and throw stones at a legend. Your bias is well understood.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>I believe that Chipper is clean. But honestly, how will we ever know for sure? >>
He went and got professional help for what he deemed problems in his life, came clean about them, and did what he needed to do to get to solving those issues, and according to him, turning his life around. So I trust his claim of PED free is within this character change of his. If he he got help for other issues in his life, and he has talked about them, I assume he is honest in this area as well.
<< <i>Had great #'s for many years. HOF material. Can't deny those #'s. Is he playing this season? >>
Yes, he is! Right now he is sitting out with sore thighs. He is sore from working out. I am 1 month older then Chipper. I wouldn't be sore from spring training, I'd be dead. I just hope he can play most of the season, that would be great. He'll have some issues, I am sure with minor injuries/age, but if he can avoid major injuries, look for him to make the playoffs one more time.
<< <i>I believe that Chipper is clean. But honestly, how will we ever know for sure? >>
I don't think he did them either, but who in the heck knows who did what.
<< <i>And on top of all that he did it with just one team. Gotta appreciate that.
<< <i>Along with all of Chippers impressive stats, he is the only 3rd baseman in MLB history with 8 straight 100+ RBI seasons. I rank him #3 greatest 3rd baseman of all time. #1 Schmidt, #2 Brett, #3 Chipper, #4 Matthews, #5 Robinson. Thats my top 5. Also, I say Chipper is 1st ballot HOF. Anyone else? Whats your opionion? >>
Good list!
Id go with Schmidt 1, Brett 2, Mathews 3, Chipper 4, Boggs 5
With the exception of Schmidt you can argue, convincingly for spots 2-5
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>
<< <i>How do you know who used and who didn't? Everyone who used said they didn't and everyone who didn't use said they didn't. >>
hahahahahaha..........well, he's destroyed the Mets his entire carrer, you don't have to be on PED's to do that! >>
He hit .364/.470/574 at the age of 36. Questioning Chipper's "cleanliness" isn't anymore outlandish compared to any other player who may or may not have ties to PEDs.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>How do you know who used and who didn't? Everyone who used said they didn't and everyone who didn't use said they didn't. >>
hahahahahaha..........well, he's destroyed the Mets his entire carrer, you don't have to be on PED's to do that! >>
He hit .364/.470/574 at the age of 36. Questioning Chipper's "cleanliness" isn't anymore outlandish compared to any other player who may or may not have ties to PEDs. >>
I was just poking a little jab at the mets fan. Nothing personal.
Chipper is a lock for the HOF. Did he use PEDs? In my opinion, yes, he probably did at some point. Do I care? No. Without proof of any PED use, you have nothing. The HOF voters need to stop this B.S. of guessing who did or didn't. Next year's vote will be very interesting with Bonds and Clemens eligible.
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe that Chipper is clean. But honestly, how will we ever know for sure? >>
He went and got professional help for what he deemed problems in his life, came clean about them, and did what he needed to do to get to solving those issues, and according to him, turning his life around. So I trust his claim of PED free is within this character change of his. If he he got help for other issues in his life, and he has talked about them, I assume he is honest in this area as well. >>
Baseball tried to use the honor system for years and we all know how that turned out. . .
The correct answer is because there has been drug testing in the sport since 2004 and he never peed hot
Top 10 thirdbaseman, in order: Schmidt, Mathews, Brett, Boggs, Jones, Santo, Robinson, Evans, Baker, Rolen
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 77.97% Complete)
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I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>Chipper reminds me a lot of my favorite player of all time, Cal Ripken Jr. >>
Except much better offensively.
<< <i>
<< <i>Chipper reminds me a lot of my favorite player of all time, Cal Ripken Jr. >>
Except much better offensively. >>
I would have to agree that he may have been a little bit better offensively, but not by much. I would still rather have Ripken at the plate for my team in a big spot. Also Ripken had a better overall career. Chipper is still Hsall worthy on the firstt ballot in my opinion.
PSA HOF Baseball Postwar Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 77.97% Complete)
PSA Pro Football HOF Rookie Players Set Registry- (Currently 19.26% Complete)
PSA Basketball HOF Players Rookies Set Registry- (Currently 6.02% Complete)
<< <i>I would have to agree that he may have been a little bit better offensively, but not by much. I would still rather have Ripken at the plate for my team in a big spot. Also Ripken had a better overall career. Chipper is still Hsall worthy on the firstt ballot in my opinion. >>
?!@?!?!
A "little better"? Jones is a career .304 hitter with a lifetime OPS+ of 141. Ripken was a career .276 hitter with a lifetime OPS+ of 112. Using OPS+, Chipper was 26% better than Ripken. That's a HUGE difference.
Chipper hit 30+ HRs 6 times, including 45 once. Ripken did it once, hitting 34.
Chipper had 10 seasons of 96+ RBI. Ripken had 5.
Chipper has walked 1455 times in his career. Ripken walked 1129 times.
Chipper essentially has had two below-average seasons in his career - and in one of those he still hit 30 HRs and drove in 96 runs. Ripken had multiple off-years where he hit in the .250s and had 7 seasons with OPS+ < 100.
And that's all with Chipper playing 700 fewer games.
So, yeah, Chipper was better offensively. A *LOT* better offensively.
Tabe
Just because Chipper Jones has been able to do far more with the bat in his hands doesn't mean he helped the Braves far more than Ripken helped the Orioles
Higher OBP, OPS, OPS+ (by some 30 points) and it goes to add that Ripken was not in the same league as Chipper with the stick.
<< <i>Chipper reminds me a lot of my favorite player of all time, Cal Ripken Jr. >>
For me, when I agreed to that statement, I took it as being similiar face of the franchise, and what they both meant to the teams, players, fans, organization. Ripken was the man on that team, as well has Chipper for many years, as he is the last of the great Braves 1990 teams. They are both similiar in that way. As far getting down to stats, I don't think we can compare the two players that way. For example, in my orginial link, you can see that Chipper is one of only 5 players with a certain stat line. Chipper is the only 3rd baseman in MLB history to hit 100+ RBI's in 8 straight seasons. Ripken is the Ironman. I've seen both players come through for their respective teams in many different ways. They are both great, and we can't really compare them on stats hardcore.
<< <i>arex, where are you getting your information from. Chipper Jones career WAR, 82.7; Cal Ripken 89.9. Ripken through his first 15 seasons (29 fewer games than Jones), 84.3. According to baseballreference >>
I used Offensive War (think i called it wrong earlier) instead of general WAR as i was trying to isolate offense from defense.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
However, I think it is naive to advertise anyone who played in this era as PED free and "doing it right". In the end, we don't know and never will know who did what.
<< <i>Chipper should be a first ballot Hall of Famer without a doubt. He is a top 5 third baseman of all-time.
However, I think it is naive to advertise anyone who played in this era as PED free and "doing it right". In the end, we don't know and never will know who did what. >>
Not only first ballot, but a grilling of the morons who leave him off the first ballot should take place, like the 2 or 3 idiots that did not vote for Rickey Henderson.
<< <i>Not only first ballot, but a grilling of the morons who leave him off the first ballot should take place, like the 2 or 3 idiots that did not vote for Rickey Henderson. >>
Yes.
These guys that leave people off because "Babe Ruth wasn't a unanimous selection!" need to lose their ballots. Besides the fact that they ignore the historical context of WHY Ruth wasn't unanimous, it's just a stupid point of view. Some guys are simply controversy-free 1st ballot HOFers - Steve Carlton, Tom Seaver, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and so on. There is NO good reason for leaving them off the ballot. Period.
Tabe
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>IMO, he gets in but not first ballot...although he has been getting a lot of press throughout his final season, which doesn't hurt. I'm not a Braves fan but I've always liked the guy. I equate him somewhat with a Jim Thome... solid all around, not a jerk, not controversial or egotistical, goes out and quietly does the job, and does it well. Is he top 5 all time at third base? mmmmmm...not in my opinion, but maybe top ten, definitely ahead of Rolen imo. Unfortunate that he had a poor showing during his last game...bad time for a critical error. >>
I'd be curious to know who you'd put ahead of him at 3B. Certainly Mike Schmidt. Eddie Mathews and George Brett? Ok. But who else? Wade Boggs? Brooks Robinson? Pie Traynor (who once had 42 sac bunts in a season?!?!?!?)? I dunno, the list of guys better than Chipper is really, really short.
Tabe
<< <i>
<< <i>IMO, he gets in but not first ballot...although he has been getting a lot of press throughout his final season, which doesn't hurt. I'm not a Braves fan but I've always liked the guy. I equate him somewhat with a Jim Thome... solid all around, not a jerk, not controversial or egotistical, goes out and quietly does the job, and does it well. Is he top 5 all time at third base? mmmmmm...not in my opinion, but maybe top ten, definitely ahead of Rolen imo. Unfortunate that he had a poor showing during his last game...bad time for a critical error. >>
I'd be curious to know who you'd put ahead of him at 3B. Certainly Mike Schmidt. Eddie Mathews and George Brett? Ok. But who else? Wade Boggs? Brooks Robinson? Pie Traynor (who once had 42 sac bunts in a season?!?!?!?)? I dunno, the list of guys better than Chipper is really, really short. Tabe >>
I guess you could have a good argument with Boggs and Brooks ... how about Frank Home Run Baker? The guy played friggin 100 years ago ... so kind of tough to compare.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>I guess you could have a good argument with Boggs and Brooks ... how about Frank Home Run Baker? The guy played friggin 100 years ago ... so kind of tough to compare. >>
Too short of a run as an elite player. Was really only a star from 1909-1914.
Tabe
Schmidt, Mathews, and Brett are pretty much no-brainers... I like Robinson and Boggs over him as well. I'd likely put him in the top ten either at #6, or at #7 behind Santo (whose team I never liked but I always had a grudging affection for).
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I'd be curious to know who you'd put ahead of him at 3B. Certainly Mike Schmidt. Eddie Mathews and George Brett? Ok. But who else? Wade Boggs? Brooks Robinson? Pie Traynor (who once had 42 sac bunts in a season?!?!?!?)? I dunno, the list of guys better than Chipper is really, really short.
Schmidt, Mathews, and Brett are pretty much no-brainers... I like Robinson and Boggs over him as well. I'd likely put him in the top ten either at #6, or at #7 behind Santo (whose team I never liked but I always had a grudging affection for).
I just can't see putting Robinson ahead of Chipper. Yeah, his defense was obviously a lot better but Chipper was hardly poor at 3B. And he's got a BIG advantage over Brooks offensively.
Santo and Jones is a fair comparison. Santo > Jones defensively, Jones > Santo offensively. Since I will always give the benefit to the offense in such arguments, I would say Jones > Santo.
As for Boggs, I think the difference in power between the two is just too much for Boggs to overcome. I love Wade as a player - had his jersey as a kid - but Jones hit like 350 more HRs. That's a HUGE difference. Boggs eventually became an outstanding defender but still - *350* HRs.
Since nobody asked, I think my list would look like this:
1) Schmidt
2) Mathews
3) Jones
4) Brett
5) Santo
6) Boggs
7) Robinson
Tabe
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>After all we have heard about the players who took the short cut, and their inflated numbers, and lack of caring that they cheated. How about a player who did it right?
Here is a neat stat: Jones has hit .304 with 454 homers, 526 doubles, 1,455 walks, a .402 on-base percentage and a .533 slugging percentage. A quick glance at these numbers proves he has had a pretty special career. But a closer examination shows just how special it has been. Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Lou Gehrig are the only other players in Major League history to record a career .300 batting average with at least 450 homers, 500 doubles, 1,400 walks, a .400 on-base percentage and a .500 slugging percentage.
Its nice to see some media time given to players that have done it right. I'm tired of the other stories.
Your the man Chipper!!!
mlb.com link
atlanta journal link click on the first line in the first paragraph >>
I also think he had more walks than strikouts....can anyone else on your list (Ruth, Williams, Musial, Gehrig) make that claim? My guess is only Williams...
Offensively at least..............a better player.
Sorry Mike.
Joe
Using OPS as my measuring tool, the seven players mentioned earlier stack up like this;
Jones .930
Schmidt .908
Matthews.885
Boggs .858
Brett .857
Santo .826
Robinson .723
Obviously, when bringing in defense and baserunning, you might adjust the list. I kind of like it the way it stands. I knew Chipper was a high average hitter, but he had great power as well. There seems to be no evidence (?) of PED use, so why wouldn't Mr. Jones be a first ballot HOFer?
Joe