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Ron Paul holds up ASE to Bernanke
JCB1983
Posts: 143
Sure enough pulled an ASE out of his pocket while grilling Bernanke on the fed yesturday. The rant was on alternative currency measures.
Here is the youtube clip:
Ron Paul Holds up ASE
Here is the youtube clip:
Ron Paul Holds up ASE
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Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>Back to the Gold Standard
All we need to do is deflate our currency about 100:1.
I'm sure there are a few other things that would need to happen to, but the above is probably the stumbling block.
was he talking about the tax evasion guy or is there some other story?
Re: on-topicness ... Ron Paul confuses himself with "ASEs are legal tender but you'd get arrested for spending it or transacting with it."
If it's legal tender, I'd think it's legal to transact with it.
OT: inflation, I like the new inflation calculation and dislike it. They are right to factor in product improvements and innovations when considering price changes. But, I can't buy a cheaper 1960s era technology washing machine nor refridgerator nor tv for the cheaper price. So, there is still a huge impact to the cost of living requirements as shown through the higher prices of new era tech goods. This "unavailability of old tech prices" should be included in the CPI calculations.
OT: """transient""" inflation... give me a break.... inflation effects due to oil price increases have not been """transient,""" they have been rising for the past 8 years. 8 years worth of rising prices is not transience.
<< <i>paul spoke of someone being arrested for using us bullion coins as legal tender.
was he talking about the tax evasion guy or is there some other story? >>
I suspect he was referring the liberty dollar folks.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
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<< <i>paul spoke of someone being arrested for using us bullion coins as legal tender.
was he talking about the tax evasion guy or is there some other story? >>
I suspect he was referring the liberty dollar folks. >>
I'm also guessing he was confused by this.
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<< <i>paul spoke of someone being arrested for using us bullion coins as legal tender.
was he talking about the tax evasion guy or is there some other story? >>
I suspect he was referring the liberty dollar folks. >>
he was specifically referring to silver eagles.
"we already have a silver eagle. it's legal tender for a dollar. and some people say 'well, it's legal tender? it's a dollar, it's on the books.' they use it and they get into big trouble. the government comes and closes them down and you can get arrested for that."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Paul must handle coins,as he is holding it on the edges,to avoid finger prints,on the surface.
Ron Paul had an ownership interest in a coin business in the 1980s between his stints in congress, which is why he knows how to hold a coin.
<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
Yes, yes, yes.
I forgot about that guy!
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<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
Yes, yes, yes.
I forgot about that guy! >>
May we take that as a retraction that Dr Paul was confused ?
Very pleasant to see a congressman who is fond of numismatics.
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<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
Yes, yes, yes.
I forgot about that guy! >>
May we take that as a retraction that Dr Paul was confused ? >>
absolutely.
<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
Let’s look at the coin allegation.
Federal officials issue gold coins and silver coins. The coins are denominated in dollars. For example, the silver coin is a one-dollar silver coin. The gold coins are issued in various denominations, the largest being the 50-dollar American Eagle.
The U.S. government has declared that these coins are legal tender at their face value. In other words, suppose a person wants to buy a concert ticket that costs fifty dollars. He can take his American Eagle gold coin and tender it to the ticket seller. Under the law, the ticket seller must accept the gold coin in payment of the ticket.
Now, most every intelligent person knows that a buyer would never do that, at least not today. Why not? Because in the marketplace that one-ounce gold coin is worth about 1,000 dollars in Federal Reserve paper money, which is also considered legal tender.
Thus, the ticket buyer would be better off selling his gold coin for 1,000 dollars in paper money, paying 50 dollars in paper money to the ticket seller, and pocketing the other 950 dollars in paper money.
Nonetheless, the law is the law. If the buyer wishes to use his gold and silver coins at face value, he is perfectly within his legal rights to do so.
So, here’s what Kahre did. He offered his workers a rate of pay based on the face value of gold and silver coins. For example, suppose Kahre and a worker had agreed on annual pay of 50,000 dollars in paper money. Kahre then says to the employee, “Look, instead of paying you 50,000 dollars a year, I’ll pay you 2,500 dollars a year, payable in 50 American Eagle gold coins”
The worker says, “Fine.” Why would the worker do that? Because he’s just as well off as if he had accepted the 50,000 dollars in paper money because he can sell the coins in the marketplace for 50,000 dollars in paper money.
But there are some major differences for the worker. For one thing, the worker’s annual income is 2,500 dollars rather than 50,000 dollars. That places him under the threshold that requires him to file an income tax return. For obvious reasons, that would not sit well with the IRS.
Second, I’m no expert in tax law but it would seem to me that while the worker would have to pay capital gains tax when he sells the coins, he could defer that tax by saving the coins over a long period of time rather than selling them.
So, what have Kahre and the workers done wrong? Or to be more precise, what have they done that is illegal? If federal officials are stupid enough to make gold coins and silver coins legal tender, then what’s wrong with Americans’ using such coins as legal tender?
Let me tell you what I think their “crime” is: They’ve embarrassed U.S. officials by exposing what the Federal Reserve has done to people’s money, which is a likely reason that Federal Reserve officials, along with the IRS, are pushing this criminal prosecution.
What many Americans don’t realize is that the United States was founded on a monetary system of gold coins and silver coins. Paper money was prohibited, both at the state and federal level because our American ancestors understood that government officials throughout history had used paper money to plunder and loot the citizenry through inflation.
The gold coin/silver coin standard came to a formal end when Franklin Roosevelt nationalized gold and made it a federal crime for Americans to own gold. That act opened up the floodgates to the massive inflation of paper money that Americans have experienced ever since.
The enormous extent of the monetary debasement that had taken place since the 1930s became clear once gold ownership was re-legalized in the 1970s. How? Because Americans could easily compare the face value of gold coins issued by the mint to the price in paper money that the coins bring in the marketplace.
In other words, a fifty-dollar gold coin does not trade for 50 paper dollars. It trades for 1000 paper dollars. That’s because the government officials, decade after decade, have inflated the paper money supply to finance their ever-growing government projects.
So, what Kahre has done is bring people’s attention to that phenomenon. That’s his real crime. That’s why they’re going after him.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
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<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
Yes, yes, yes.
I forgot about that guy! >>
May we take that as a retraction that Dr Paul was confused ? >>
absolutely. >>
He might not ever be elected but he has already changed things for the better , America needs more men like Ron Paul.
regarding the rant blog above: gold is not a stock. it's worth what it is worth when you get it and that guy should have put the value of gold on the W-2. capital gains don't come into play here. i understand that this seems like great fodder to use to attack the government, but in this case it's just that a guy was cheating on his taxes.
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
That was not someone trying to spend a silver eagle at face value -- that was a simple case of tax
evasion. Offering to pay your employees with gold coins at face value, and paying taxes accordingly,
is obvious fraud.
<< <i>Here's a quasi-collectible pulled from circulation:
I kid you not , my missus does that to every single 1 dollar bill she gets , that quite possibly is one she stamped ..lol..i gotta show her this
<< <i>Does the Government , Secert Service, or Treasury have a problem with people stamping or defacing their play money
They would indeed if it became a real problem - say advocating violent overthrow of the government or terrorist activities. Most stamped over bills are Wheresgeorge bills, seriously you think the federales are going to want to prosecute this little stuff? Frankly they have bigger stuff on their plates like the North Korean supernotes.
<< <i>Does the Government , Secert Service, or Treasury have a problem with people stamping or defacing their play money
Why would they? It's not illegal to do so.
<< <i>Paul (the father) is a crank...and his son is a nut. >>
That sounds like the guys who tell my missus they will vote for romney because...ummm..er...well...he's a businessman and im a businessman.
<< <i>Paul (the father) is a crank...and his son is a nut. >>
Substitute Obama for "Paul" and Biden for "his son" and you'd be on to something.
I'm not even talking politics here...its their whole fetish with returning to the gold standard...or some variation of it...
There was a very good reason Nixon shut the gold window...because we were hemorraging hard assets while most (or essentially all) of the rest of the world had already abandoned Bretton-Woods and gone to "soft" money and floating rate currencies. And that was before the age when billions of dollars could be transferred in a flash by simply pushing a button at your desk.
We'd essentially have a 19th century fiscal policy trying to cope with a 21st century world. Short of complete financial isolation, I haven't heard any remotely plausable scenarios where anything like that could work today.
The man has taught, laterally, hundreds of thousands of us the historical and proper place of gold and silver coinage within an economy.
And some people think *he* is ‘confused’ and ‘dishonest’ on monetary issues?
Appreciate the laughs!!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>Ron Paul has served quite well on the House Financial Services Committee for many years. He is chairman of the Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy. He has embarrassed the current and previous chairman of the federal reserve, running circles around their circular tripe. He has demonstrably destroyed their contrived arguments into the ground, exhibiting complete mastery of financial, monetary and fiscal policy and theory. Before that he helped/backed a number of coin and bullion dealers in the western US.
The man has taught, laterally, hundreds of thousands of us the historical and proper place of gold and silver coinage within an economy.
And some people think *he* is ‘confused’ and ‘dishonest’ on monetary issues?
Appreciate the laughs!!! >>
I just want to make my point perfectly cleat, I like Ron Paul, but it appears I am not smart enough to understand him when he speaks. I truly believe he is ione of the wisest we got but his ability to speak troubles me. In that Bernake hearing it appears to me that Ron Paul is trying to make a point no matter what, but I can't follow what he is saying fully, in order to be Prez you have to be able to be understood, I am admittedly no genius but if I can't fully follow him how do you think the rest of the sheeple in the USofA are taking what he says? >>
Not sure what point he is trying to make. In his example I think it is dumb luck [or conveniently chosen] that silver at this time in 2006 is about the same price as it is now. That hardly constitutes proof that silver is a store of value. How an ounce could buy over 40 gallons of gasoline in 2006 and only 11 gallons now is something of a mystery. His thingy about giving back $90 is somewhat misleading since you would be getting back $90 of buying power. If people want to buy PMs they are certainly free to do so and smart enough to do so. Kind of like retirement planning and health care, the people who could benefit the most can least afford to tie up money in silver eagles or other bullion.
<< <i>Ron Paul has served quite well on the House Financial Services Committee for many years. He is chairman of the Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy. He has embarrassed the current and previous chairman of the federal reserve, running circles around their circular tripe. He has demonstrably destroyed their contrived arguments into the ground, exhibiting complete mastery of financial, monetary and fiscal policy and theory. Before that he helped/backed a number of coin and bullion dealers in the western US.
The man has taught, laterally, hundreds of thousands of us the historical and proper place of gold and silver coinage within an economy.
And some people think *he* is ‘confused’ and ‘dishonest’ on monetary issues?
Appreciate the laughs!!! >>
Folks could do worse than read his several books on the matters. The problem seems to me as an "outsider" that the greedy peeps will ensure he never gets into office.They make too much money selling guns and bombs etc etc
<< <i>Back to the Gold Standard
Back to the gold standard - back to poverty.
Unless they are going to peg gold a few million an ounce or more, such a massive decrease in the money supply would make the Greek debt crisis look like a sideshow.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Paul (the father) is a crank...and his son is a nut. >>
What makes him a crank? Did he not say the value of the dollar erodes against silver as the Fed prints more and more $s?
Where's the crank? I'm confused.
<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
I am unfamiliar with this case, but it seems like the fed's real case might be related to minimum wage laws. Dunno if this is only for non-exempt employees, but i'd sure take min. wage if it was paid in ASEs!
<< <i>Thanks. He articulates the value of silver backed currency clearly and concisely and makes a fool out Bernacke. >>
I guess if the Govmint cared about backing the dollar with silver they wouldn't be selling it to the unwashed masses like a drunken sailor.
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<< <i>This may be what Paul was referring to >>
I am unfamiliar with this case, but it seems like the fed's real case might be related to minimum wage laws. Dunno if this is only for non-exempt employees, but i'd sure take min. wage if it was paid in ASEs! >>
If yer making $40K a year and silver is $40 an ounce then yer only getting 1,000 ASEs instead of 40,000 so at $1 face value yer severely underpaid.