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Have the TPGs forever destroyed the "pocket change to riches" game for young numismatists?
MrEureka
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Have the TPGs destroyed the "pocket change to riches" game for young numismatists? I think so, and I think that eliminates what has for many generations been the primary source for regenerating our collector base.
The question is, is there some other way (short of playing the TPG game) for the typical YN to profit from his hobby? And if there is currently no way, can we come up with something new?
The question is, is there some other way (short of playing the TPG game) for the typical YN to profit from his hobby? And if there is currently no way, can we come up with something new?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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And what about all of these mint issues? For not a lot of money, they can draw kids into NCLT to collect or even flip. All I had to buy from the Mint were boring proof sets in Ikes.
Yes, more things than ever compete with kids' attention, but middle class kids have much more buying power than they did in my generation. I remember having to choose between a pack of baseball cards (a strip 3 pack) or a 1912-D liberty nickel in G. My son and his friends, if they were interested, would buy both and have money to spare for the new game at Game Stop.
In my own personal experience in the Chicago area, 1962 was the last year you could actually find anything decent in change (actually searching rolls and bags) on a regular basis. By 1963 the pickings were getting very, very slim. By May of 1964, when the coin market collapsed, I had stopped bothering to search rolls and bags ... there just wasn't anything left to find.
Unless you experienced the coin market of that era it is hard to imagine what it was like. There were significant numbers of YNs who were very active and knowledgeable!
You ask if there's a way for them to profit - there is. If they make wise decisions and learn to grade well, then hold their collections they will most likely profit.
Some of the rarities he mentioned are in change and (I believe) fewer people are looking for them, so opportunities do exist.
<< <i>I agree with 291fifth. The switch from silver to clad coins doomed pocket change collecting. >>
I also agree with 291fifth. Obsolete coins in change would be a huge draw. 100+ years of the same (obverse) Lincoln cent is not going to cut it.
I don't think that kids are drawn into numismatics because of a profit motive (I wasn't, when I began collecting in the mid-60's); what is true of many adult 'collectors' shouldn't be presumed to hold for children. The real problem is that children have numerous, alternate pastimes available today, including Facebook, surfing the Internet, video games, etc. My paternal grandmother introduced me to the hobby (she was a coin collector). What about older adults doing this today? The extended recession and financial concerns have caused many adult collectors of modest means (for whom a $1,000 purchase would be a rare event at best) to sit on the sidelines. The economy will have to pick up notably before we see lots of newbies, old and young, enter the hobby.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>The TPGs haven't destroyed anything. They did help to partly level the playing field, making it more difficult for dealers to undergrade when buying and overgrade when selling.
I don't think that kids are drawn into numismatics because of a profit motive (I wasn't, when I began collecting in the mid-60's); what is true of many adult 'collectors' shouldn't be presumed to hold for children. The real problem is that children have numerous, alternate pastimes available today, including Facebook, surfing the Internet, video games, etc. My paternal grandmother introduced me to the hobby (she was a coin collector). What about older adults doing this today? The extended recession and financial concerns have caused many adult collectors of modest means (for whom a $1,000 purchase would be a rare event at best) to sit on the sidelines. The economy will have to pick up notably before we see lots of newbies, old and young, enter the hobby. >>
I also agree with this. I was attracted by the novelty and history of older coins. Profit was the furthest thing from my mind and still not top of mind.
I continue to see a decent number of kids at the local/regional coin shows and the ANA shows.
<< <i>The question is, is there some other way (short of playing the TPG game) for the typical YN to profit from his hobby? >>
Define "profit".
Except that wheaties were still in play until the mid 1990's with a little bit of effort.
Also half dollar searching through rolls was possible. but this required roll searching which is vastly different from pocket change collecting.
Also, the increased amount of games, toys, computers, cell phones, etc. Has distracted the young kids away from what they consider to be a boring and old fashioned hobby.
It takes a special breed of kid to get into the hobby. the kind of kid that is really into history. Not many kids are into "history."
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
future collectors. I found a Lincoln cent in 1964 while collecting for my paper route that I sold for $1 to
a collector, and I was hooked. That just doesn't happen anymore.
If it happens to be something they were into when they were kids the pull is stronger.
Maybe 50 years from now the first generation of Apple products will be insanely collectible (Apple Is are already 6-figure items). Who knows.
The best venue for a YN to make a lot of money (without playing the grading game) in US coins is from picking coins off eBay. For a savvy and patient YN who is willing to educate himself well on a particular series or many series, there are countless "scores" to be made on eBay each day that can profit you $50 or $100 apiece. Of course, there are some big scores to be had along the way too... just ask Winston.
If a YN is willing to get well acquainted with a series of world coins, it's much easier to make money. Exploiting the grading differences between the European and American standards is remarkably easy, and there are often big discrepancies for what certain world coins will go for at shows and what they will go for on eBay.
The thing that really killed pocket change collecting was the introduction of the clad coinage which drove most of the silver coins out of circulation by 1970 or '71. That left nothing but "new stuff" in your pocket although there were rare exceptions.
As for third party grading, that has made it better for new collectors. When I was kid working a gold type set I bought all of my coins from high priced retail dealers because I was scared stiff of getting stuck with counterfeits. Today you can buy certified gold coins from the dealers who have them and not worry about counterfeits very much. The TPGs also have cleaned up the over grading problems. I know they are not perfect, but it's better than it was for sure.
No I'd don't blame the TPGs for ruining pocket change collecting. There were a lot of other factors.
...you made me think of this site ,andy.
I think there are significantly larger problems beyond the control of TPG
Lets discuss the value of inexpensive coins
Common date EF Buffs from the 1930s
circ 2 cent pieces
circ 3 cent (nickel)
circ Indian Cents
There are some coins that fit budgets- not likely one will get rich buying these, but it could be fun- but there has to be a connection
to coins sparked by history, art/design, family history or subject matter
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Have the TPGs destroyed the "pocket change to riches" game for young numismatists? I think so, and I think that eliminates what has for many generations been the primary source for regenerating our collector base.
The question is, is there some other way (short of playing the TPG game) for the typical YN to profit from his hobby? And if there is currently no way, can we come up with something new? >>
The 'Cheerios Dollar' is about the biggest coin out there (that I know of) that could be found in the raw.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Lately, as my tastes have grown for the more expensive coins, I've tried to sell some of the lower end coins on ebay and focus on a smaller, higher quality collection. In the process, I have started flip some of the coin I thought I could make a profit on. This way, I would be able to fund a quality collection. It's remarkable, to me atleast, on the money I've been able to make. The best profit I've made from doing this was about $130. I've also gained a ton of experience from dealing with hundreds of people on ebay.
As I've become more involved, I've often thought about joining the ana so I could submit directly to ngc. I haven't taken initiative to do this since it would be a lot of money for me to spend in one submission and I don't think it is worth it to me at this point.
From my experience, I know it is possible for a YN to make money in the hobby.
Edited to add; Searching for, taking photos of, listing, and shipping coins through ebay takes a lot of my time. I don't thinkk most kids my age would have the patience for such an activity.
I'm not so worried about the state of YNs-- I believe the Chinese are the future. If they can get into collecting US coins it could really be a shot in the arm for the hobby.
No!
The rules change but the game goes on.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.<< <i>If getting rich and profiting is why the kids are in it then we've failed.
You ask if there's a way for them to profit - there is. If they make wise decisions and learn to grade well, then hold their collections they will most likely profit. >>
I disagree with this statement. It seems the first words out of a young person's mouth is, "How much is it worth?" The collecting bug comes from seeing parents or peers filling up the books. BTW, "How much is it worth?" seems to be about 50% of the questions asked by most of us, too!
<< <i>Have they really destroyed it? There are all of these varieties (wide AM, narrow AM, double ear, etc.) that are legitimized by the TPGs that would have been under the radar for the young of my generation.
And what about all of these mint issues? For not a lot of money, they can draw kids into NCLT to collect or even flip. All I had to buy from the Mint were boring proof sets in Ikes.
Yes, more things than ever compete with kids' attention, but middle class kids have much more buying power than they did in my generation. I remember having to choose between a pack of baseball cards (a strip 3 pack) or a 1912-D liberty nickel in G. My son and his friends, if they were interested, would buy both and have money to spare for the new game at Game Stop. >>
Be quite! Don’t give anyone any ideas.
It is hard enough to find varieties without your help.
<< <i>Have the TPGs destroyed the "pocket change to riches" game for young numismatists? I think so, and I think that eliminates what has for many generations been the primary source for regenerating our collector base.
The question is, is there some other way (short of playing the TPG game) for the typical YN to profit from his hobby? And if there is currently no way, can we come up with something new? >>
I don't understand the premise and disagree with the conclusion.
There wasn't anything of any value in pocket change when most of we older collector
"caught the bug". Pretty much anything which has a substantial premium now was re-
moved from circulation by the end of WW II (1945). By 1957 when I started everything
had been completely picked over. Sure, there were valuable coins if you knew what to
look for but in those days nobody paid attention to gems and varieties.
Now days there are lots of coins in circulation that will have a huge premium in twenty
five years, probably. It's not just gems and varieties but high grade regular issues in
many cases.
But the TPG's had little to do with any of this. I would suggest that they've set back col-
lecting from pocket change by a decade or more but without the TPG's coin collecting likely
would be a dying hobby so it's a moot point.