Where have all the good coins gone?

renomedphys · February 13, 2012 3:37AM

It seems that I spend all my time nowadays waiting for some really great coin to come along that is worthy of buying. Recently I told a dealer friend of mine that it takes three big shows to yield one good coin.

Now mind you, I'm a copper weenie, and I really like proof small cents. MPLs, Indians, Flying Eagles, you know. That just tells you where I'm coming from. I'm sure that there are some other areas of numismatics that are brimming with top quality stuff to buy. Or are there?

So I guess what I'm asking, er, stating, er, whatever is that while it would seem that there is almost always great stuff available in one area or another, is there any part of this hobby, some subset, that is enjoying a "golden time" of plenty, or is it all dead for the time being?

Baley · February 13, 2012 3:47AM

It means you have a nice collection and it is difficult (and expensive) to find something to add to it. Also, your selection criteria has improved with experience, so the vast majority of coins "out there" aren't special enough to warrant adding them to your set.

MidLifeCrisis · February 13, 2012 4:24AM

I have not had any problem finding nice coins in my area in recent weeks.

Of course, after reading Baley's response above, I'm not sure what that says about me and my collection.

rec78 · February 13, 2012 4:25AM

Good coins are in stronger hands now--i.e. people with more money than they know what to do with. When you find one buy it-If you don't, it won't be there the next time you see the dealer. Deep pocket collectors and investors will snag it and put it away for a long time.

Bob

Timbuk3 · February 13, 2012 5:39AM

Where have all the good coins gone ??
"Long time passing" !!!

BillJones · February 13, 2012 5:48AM

A great many very good coins are sitting in collections with "strong hands" holding them. These well healed collectors don't need to sell any time soon, and are willing to wait. They might feel that their dollars are better held in high quality coins that other assets given the nature of the domestic and world economies.

Unlike renomedphys who collects mostly most cents, I’m sort of an omnivore that consumes a wide variety of coins, tokens and some medals. Even so I find I have to go far down my want list to find material, and perhaps I’ve paid too much at times. For the coins for which I’ve paid too much, they are not coming on the market very soon so that takes more material off the market.

This is a strange market. Even if you have the money you can’t find what you want much of the time.

Walkerguy21D · February 13, 2012 6:40AM

I'm in a similar boat.
Though I've had some luck finding nice circ collector coins for resale, I have not added anything to my primary sets in quite a while.
Part of that is just me though - I have found a few large cents I was interested in, but the prices these are commanding on the bourse and
at auctions today are just crazy IMO. And I'm not even talking about chain and wreath cents!
On the bright side, it makes more appreciative of the coins I do own

JJM · February 13, 2012 6:46AM

I do not own one pc of copper.........not even a widget

I have no trouble finding other things that I like......

a Bar Cent would be nice

BryceM · February 13, 2012 7:59AM

Sure there are coins sitting with people who arent' selling. I'd guess that many collectors progress to a point that their standards get pretty high. What you might have considered as a nice coin before no longer has any appeal. Maybe it's you that changed.

AnkurJ · February 13, 2012 8:20AM

It seems to me that most nice coins go to the large auction houses.

carl · February 13, 2012 8:23AM

Mostly depends on where you look and live. By me we have from 2 to 4 coin shows a Month within about 15+ miles of me. At two of them one dealer always has a really great selection of high graded Lincoln Cents. Another dealer that is at a few of them has a massive assortment of Large Cents. At a coin show last Sunday I saw an endless amount of Lincoln Cents and many, many in high grades. Prices were average too. So again, it is depending on where you look.

OnlyGoldIsMoney · February 13, 2012 8:27AM

Gone to strong hands every one.

lordmarcovan · February 13, 2012 8:28AM

<< Where have all the good coins gone? >>

To my BST thread, of course.

(Ha- I wish!)

ambro51 · February 13, 2012 8:30AM

They are for sale in Heritage and Stacks Bowers Auctions. Many collectors have NEVER sat down and really went through a major auction catalog, nor have they realized thats where their dealer is buying that coin...before calling them up and selling to them.

If you want to find good food you have to eat in a good restaurant.

rhedden · February 13, 2012 9:18AM

There are surges and droughts in the supply of different numismatic items as time goes by. For whatever reason, the numismatic market does not seem to increase slowly and steadily, so the really good coins disappear when there is no reason to sell them, and the market stagnates as a result. Book price will remain the same on an item for years on end, followed by a tremendous increase in price that brings coins out of hiding. In many early series, especially Bust coins, we saw such an increase from about 2002-2006. Good examples: the sudden and rapid escalation in prices for 1809 dimes and 1824/2 quarters; the sudden and well-timed release of 1804 quarters following a book release and an increase in demand/price. It may be that the nice proof cents you desire are stagnating right now, and nobody really wants to pay the higher prices for them. Save your money for when the market re-awakens.

SkyMan · February 13, 2012 10:18AM

<< It means you have a nice collection and it is difficult (and expensive) to find something to add to it. Also, your selection criteria has improved with experience, so the vast majority of coins "out there" aren't special enough to warrant adding them to your set. >>

Bingo.

Also, you can split your coin collecting into two categories. Save your major money for those pieces of copper you really want, and enjoy THE HUNT for those pieces. Then have a fun relatively inexpensive series that can be worked on while you're waiting for your main coins. If you want a fun coin fix, find a series, set the parameters so that you've cut out the expensive coins, and collect coins that generally run in the $25 - $125 range (with MAYBE a major pop, or three, up to $500, for something that REALLY floats your boat). That way you're having fun just enjoying the hobby of coin collecting. For example, the expensive coins that I'm looking for are 1858 business strike coins, 1893 proof coins (in both cases no gold), and Franklin business strike toner upgrades. These days I might find 1 coin TOTAL for these 3 groups in a given year if I'm lucky. About 2 years ago I started collecting 1940 - 1964 toner Washingtons, predominantly in MS66, with some in MS65 for the more expensive date/mm, and some in MS67 if they really float my boat. By starting the series in 1940 I've cut out the most expensive coins. This time frame also more or less corresponds to the Franklin series time frame so that I can use my knowledge of toning characteristics of the assorted date/mm. It's fun, it's relatively inexpensive, and it's reasonably difficult if you wait to find the right toner.

Yeah, there's a strong likelihood you'll probably, NET, lose some money when you sell, but it'll be relatively little, and you'll have fun along the way. Then again, if you get good with the varieties you might end up making some money once you factor in the cherry picking. In any case, it's just plain old coin collecting fun.

BaseballAbs · February 13, 2012 11:19AM

If good coin are always available would you really be as interested? It's human nature to want everything now, but it's also human nature to value that which is not readily available. Just my two cents.

TahoeDale · February 13, 2012 1:42PM

Great coins come along once every several years. If you are looking to buy one every week, you are way too
optimistic.

The Barber half collectors loved the late nineties, when the Pryor, Price, and Eliasberg sales were conducted.
Then The Hugan sale in 2005, Schers proofs in 05, then the Friend MS halves in 09, and too soon thereafter--Steve Duckors finest known set.

If you wanted Early dollars, last September and May of 2011.

Saints and early gold--just last month.

I guess you are too picky, or your field is too limited. Try commems--they are always available--even the real nice ones.

MikeInFL · February 13, 2012 2:35PM

As I become more experienced, my standards become higher, and the number of coins that meet them has gone down. I don't think I'm alone in this, and wonder if this is part of what's going on with you.

That, and all the "easy" holes are gone.

RichieURich · February 13, 2012 3:32PM

<< They are for sale in Heritage and Stacks Bowers Auctions. Many collectors have NEVER sat down and really went through a major auction catalog, nor have they realized thats where their dealer is buying that coin...before calling them up and selling to them.

If you want to find good food you have to eat in a good restaurant. >>

To paraphrase the above quote: all the good coins are all in auctions, and dealers buy most of the coins in auctions.

So, wouldn't the dealers have the good coins then? Or do they cease being good coins as soon as the dealer gets them from the auction house?

BillJones · February 13, 2012 11:34PM

<< 

<< They are for sale in Heritage and Stacks Bowers Auctions. Many collectors have NEVER sat down and really went through a major auction catalog, nor have they realized thats where their dealer is buying that coin...before calling them up and selling to them.

If you want to find good food you have to eat in a good restaurant. >>

To paraphrase the above quote: all the good coins are all in auctions, and dealers buy most of the coins in auctions.

So, wouldn't the dealers have the good coins then? Or do they cease being good coins as soon as the dealer gets them from the auction house? >>

A lot of material is purchased to cover want lists or is bought by surrogate bidders who are acting on behalf of their clients. These coins never see the inside of bourse case. A lot of other coins trade between dealers to fill want lists, and the collectors who come to the bourse after “super bourse” and “dealer night” don’t have the opportunity to see them.

The Internet has spawned an explosion in interest coins, tokens and medals. Tokens and medals that sold for low prices years ago now go for hundreds or even thousands of dollars. Just look at the interest so-called dollars. Back in the 1980s you could hardly get anyone to look at the so-called dollar book let alone buy it. Now the pieces have a strong following.

The bottom line: The supply of collectables is fixed while the number of collectors, speculators and yes, retirement funds is growing.

renomedphys · February 14, 2012 8:26AM

<< 

<< It means you have a nice collection and it is difficult (and expensive) to find something to add to it. Also, your selection criteria has improved with experience, so the vast majority of coins "out there" aren't special enough to warrant adding them to your set. >>

Bingo.

Also, you can split your coin collecting into two categories. Save your major money for those pieces of copper you really want, and enjoy THE HUNT for those pieces. Then have a fun relatively inexpensive series that can be worked on while you're waiting for your main coins. If you want a fun coin fix, find a series, set the parameters so that you've cut out the expensive coins, and collect coins that generally run in the $25 - $125 range (with MAYBE a major pop, or three, up to $500, for something that REALLY floats your boat). That way you're having fun just enjoying the hobby of coin collecting. For example, the expensive coins that I'm looking for are 1858 business strike coins, 1893 proof coins (in both cases no gold), and Franklin business strike toner upgrades. These days I might find 1 coin TOTAL for these 3 groups in a given year if I'm lucky. About 2 years ago I started collecting 1940 - 1964 toner Washingtons, predominantly in MS66, with some in MS65 for the more expensive date/mm, and some in MS67 if they really float my boat. By starting the series in 1940 I've cut out the most expensive coins. This time frame also more or less corresponds to the Franklin series time frame so that I can use my knowledge of toning characteristics of the assorted date/mm. It's fun, it's relatively inexpensive, and it's reasonably difficult if you wait to find the right toner.

Yeah, there's a strong likelihood you'll probably, NET, lose some money when you sell, but it'll be relatively little, and you'll have fun along the way. Then again, if you get good with the varieties you might end up making some money once you factor in the cherry picking. In any case, it's just plain old coin collecting fun. >>

OK, this is good advice. In fact, about 3-4 years ago I began building my Dansco 7070 set, and have had a lot of fun doing it, for nearly the prices you mentioned above. Well, that is until recently, when I bought a 1797 DB cent and a 1812 Classic Cent for nearly 3K each, just so that they would match the rest of my set in terms of quality. It was a really fun set to build, and I'm still not done. I still need a couple of commems, a decent no motto seated dollar, a decent with motto half, and the moderns, which I may just never do, opting to fill the gold page instead (when I get some extra dough). In fact, part of the reason I haven't bought all the rest of the coins is that I really don't want to FINISH, perhaps out of fear of what comes next.

The set, by the way, is infuriating. The 7070 that is. Most of my coins have been cracked out of nice legitimate holders, with a few being purchased raw, and a few unimportant pieces being just fillers with eye appeal, but having undeniable flaws. Kind of like having a mix of real and costume jewelery. What really bothers me about the set, though, is the total lack of placement options for early type. I love the large diameter quarters and dimes, and actually own examples, and would love the option to buy some more nice quality bust coinage and own it raw in my album. I know I can buy it and have it raw, but the display option is important to me. And sure, you guys are thinking yeah right, how would one ever get all the small eagle type in there? Well, I'll tell you now that having a few unfilled holes in my set is really what life's all about.

Baley · February 14, 2012 10:07AM

The set, by the way, is infuriating. The 7070 that is. Most of my coins have been cracked out of nice legitimate holders, with a few being purchased raw, and a few unimportant pieces being just fillers with eye appeal, but having undeniable flaws. Kind of like having a mix of real and costume jewelery. What really bothers me about the set, though, is the total lack of placement options for early type. I love the large diameter quarters and dimes, and actually own examples, and would love the option to buy some more nice quality bust coinage and own it raw in my album. I know I can buy it and have it raw, but the display option is important to me. And sure, you guys are thinking yeah right, how would one ever get all the small eagle type in there? Well, I'll tell you now that having a few unfilled holes in my set is really what life's all about.

Here's an idea: Get yourself an extra Moderns page from the 7070: with a little hole stretching here, a little shim there, you can fit many early coins, for example, a bust dollar will work in the ASE hole, the large sized draped bust and capped bust quarters can me made to work in the SBA and Sac holes, etc. You could make attractive labels to stick over the existing labels near the holes.

About 2 years ago I started collecting 1940 - 1964 toner Washingtons, predominantly in MS66, with some in MS65 for the more expensive date/mm, and some in MS67 if they really float my boat. By starting the series in 1940 I've cut out the most expensive coins

I also did this exact thing, with a raw set of quarters in a Dansco, and went ahead and finished the clads, too (though not all those are toned, most of the silver ones are) but now I'm looking for another side project.. maybe a set of toned Roosevelt dimes.

acloco · February 14, 2012 11:44AM

Your quest is the same, no matter what your numismatic quarry is.

Pick a series, ANY series, pick a grade, and find PROBLEM FREE items. Good luck.

philographer · February 14, 2012 12:16PM

For all the talk of coins being hard to find, I don't get it. Go to Legend, Pinnacle, Aspen Park, etc. Great coins there...

Edward

GeorgeKellogg · February 14, 2012 1:36PM

They've gone where they always go--into an appreciative collection. Good coins aren't around long, while marginal and poor coins languish in the marketplace.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 14, 2012 1:39PM

Where have all the good orbs gone
I read the thread title and keep hearing this in my head.

Thanks a lot.

Coinosaurus · February 14, 2012 2:01PM

<< 

<< They are for sale in Heritage and Stacks Bowers Auctions. Many collectors have NEVER sat down and really went through a major auction catalog, nor have they realized thats where their dealer is buying that coin...before calling them up and selling to them.

If you want to find good food you have to eat in a good restaurant. >>

To paraphrase the above quote: all the good coins are all in auctions, and dealers buy most of the coins in auctions.

So, wouldn't the dealers have the good coins then? Or do they cease being good coins as soon as the dealer gets them from the auction house? >>

The coins are still good, the prices not so much. The problem is that standard 75% markup that you use

RichieURich · February 14, 2012 2:12PM

<< The coins are still good, the prices not so much. The problem is that standard 75% markup that you use

>>

Where have all the good coins gone?

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