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Lincoln 1909 VDB on it's way to Mars.
SkyMan
Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
The Mars rover Curiosity is using a 1909 VDB (sorry folks, no S) on a plaque that is used as a calibration target. The plaque is attached to the end of the robotic arm on Curiosity. The cent is being used for scale purposes, e.g. to calibrate the size of the object being imaged.
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"The public can watch for changes in the penny over the long term on Mars."
"Will it change color? Will it corrode? Will it get pitted by windblown sand?"
-Paul
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
<< <i>Is it a DDO? >>
Didn't look like one to me, but I was ready to call Richard Branson if it was.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
AB
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Isn't copper a precious metal on mars? >>
i hope it dont start a war of the worlds because copper is valuable
<< <i>me wonders if martian atmosphere is going to tone it green...would it be a/t or m/t then as in...alien toned or martian toned? >>
Seriously, I'm wondering what the nearly all-carbon dioxide atmosphere, plus temps down to -150, will do to this coin.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
<< <i>I can say with 100% certainty that these will not be the first Lincoln wheats in microgravity. >>
Cents have been in microgravity for roughly 50 years, to the best of my knowledge always in Earth or Lunar orbits (or transit between). However, if the Curiosity lands properly, this will be the first cent on Mars.
U.S. Type Set
So how long before someone goes to get it, brings it back and it is auctioned by the HeritStackBowersBerg company? What will it sell for and in what currency?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
<< <i>So how long before someone goes to get it, brings it back and it is auctioned by the HeritStackBowersBerg company? What will it sell for and in what currency? >>
It's not being returned... at least not any time in the foreseeable future. Even if in 100 years it is returned, it would certainly go to the Smithsonian.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>
<< <i>So how long before someone goes to get it, brings it back and it is auctioned by the HeritStackBowersBerg company? What will it sell for and in what currency? >>
It's not being returned... at least not any time in the foreseeable future. Even if in 100 years it is returned, it would certainly go to the Smithsonian. >>
My comment was tongue in cheek. But if the 1909 cent were recovered years later, there is no certainty that it would be by the US government and end up in the Smithsonian. It could be retrieved by a private company or another country.
It would not totally shock me if within the next 20 to 30 years some small Apollo related relics currently on the moon became available for sale via China or end up in a museum there.
This brings up another coin related question. Were there any coins, tokens or medals left on the moon whether officially or unofficial?
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So how long before someone goes to get it, brings it back and it is auctioned by the HeritStackBowersBerg company? What will it sell for and in what currency? >>
It's not being returned... at least not any time in the foreseeable future. Even if in 100 years it is returned, it would certainly go to the Smithsonian. >>
My comment was tongue in cheek. But if the 1909 cent were recovered years later, there is no certainty that it would be by the US government and end up in the Smithsonian. It could be retrieved by a private company or another country.
It would not totally shock me if within the next 20 to 30 years some small Apollo related relics currently on the moon became available for sale via China or end up in a museum there.
This brings up another coin related question. Were there any coins, tokens or medals left on the moon whether officially or unofficial? >>
Actually, there are very specific international rules about this sort of thing. After all, it would be FAR more advantageous for a foreign power to grab a disused piece of spy equipment in orbit and learn about the technological capabilities of their adversaries, than it would be to pick up the urine packs of the Apollo Moon explorers. The US Government still lays claim to the objects left on the Moon, Mars, interstellar space etc., and under the assorted Space Treaties out there this is acknowledged. In a like manner the Soviet/Russian items are still owned by Russia, the old Chinese satellites are still owned by China, and so on and so forth. Further, the US Government in the last year or so has been attempting to get the Apollo sites designated as historical sites so that they are not disturbed, as it is reasonably likely that in the next 10 years or so humans and/or robots with retrieval capabilities will again be on the Moon.
As to coins on the Moon, I am not aware of any. The closest item that I am aware of to coins/medallions on the Moon is that Alan Bean, on Apollo 12 (November, 1969), threw his silver astronaut pin on the Moon.
Basically when astronaut candidates get accepted to be astronauts by NASA they are given silver astronaut pins. After an astronaut flies into space he/she can then buy a gold astronaut pin and wear the gold pin. The pins are the exact same size and design, just one is silver and one is gold. Anyhow, Bean thought there was no better place to show that he now deserved a gold pin than to bring his silver pin with him to the Moon and throw it out on the surface, specifically in Surveyor Crater in the Ocean of Storms.
One of Bean's crewmates on Apollo 12 was Richard Gordon, who won his gold astronaut pin in 1966 for flying on Gemini 11. Several years ago I was lucky enough to win Gordon's silver astronaut pin at an auction. It is VERY rare to find silver astronaut pins on the open market, only a few have ever been sold. I assume that generally they are passed on to family members. Gordon's silver pin is the only one I have heard of on the open market that was owned by one of the 24 astronauts who have gone to the Moon. I have NEVER seen a gold astronaut pin on the open market. Anyhow, given that Gordon and Bean were both on Apollo 12, and given that Bean threw his silver astronaut pin on the Moon, and that I own Gordon's silver pin, I got Bean (and Gordon) to sign a large print of the Apollo 12 landing site with a description, and arrows, of where Bean threw his pin, so that I can display the pin (with it's hand written certificate of authenticity from Gordon), and the signed picture, together. Not only is it a fun display, it should also increase the value of the pin when I eventually (the good Lord willing not for a LONG time) sell it. Here's a picture of the pin (which is about the size of a nickel), and one of myself and Bean after Bean has signed the landing site image. In the picture, to the left of the Lunar Module, you can see Bean's inscription about throwing the pin into that specific crater.
U.S. Type Set
(1) HOW can we send a Lincoln penny to Mars and then even THINK of discontinuing it at home as "irrelevant" and "not worth the cost of minting/picking-up/etc"?
(2) What about the "butterfly effect"? What if there's something on or in the make-up of that coin which negatively impacts the Martian ecosystem, potentially destroying it and maybe any life before we even learn of its existence..............or WORSE?!
(3) Like most $300 hammers and $20,000 toilets, how much did the people who provided the penny charge NASA for it?
Inquiring minds want to know.....................
Dave
Thanks SkyMan. Great info and story in your last message. Never heard the story before about the silver astronaut pin being left on the Moon.
Always enjoyed your space-related numismatic and exonumia info and quests. Keep them coming.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Not long ago there was I believe a $20 note auctioned that had been taken to the moon and back by one of the astronauts. It came with authentication. >>
Yes, it was flown on Apollo 14, landing near Fra Mauro. The authentication is about as airtight as one can get. It was listed for $495,000 on eBay and "sold" relatively soon thereafter for an "undisclosed sum", hinted to be in the $200,000 - $300,000 range. More than a few of us that track this field think that the sale was bogus for a variety of reasons. FWIW a Peace $1 that Buzz Aldrin took with him to the Moon's surface only went for ~ $30,000, so it takes a real leap of faith to believe a $20 bill taken on Apollo 14 would go for 10X that amount.
This May a $2 bill taken to lunar orbit on Apollo 15 went for ~$9,150 (commission IS included) at auction. It was one of 49 that were taken. FWIW a lunar landed object tends to go for 2X to 8X a lunar orbited object. My best guess for the reason that the Apollo 15 item went for so comparably high a price, given that there were 49 of them, is that the "sale" of the Apollo 14 bill occurred within the last year, so that helped kick the prices higher. Also, it's the first lunar flown bill I've seen on the market in ~ 5 years. I bid on it, but stopped bidding at ~ $3,000 as there were other items in the auction I wanted more. During that auction I did win a $2 bill (one of only 10) that was flown on BOTH of the SpaceShip One flights, the first private craft to reach space (100 km. high), and the winner of the Ansari X prize by flying to space twice within a two week period.
U.S. Type Set
This one can by subtracted from the surviving mintage!
Heading to local shop to "buy them out" of 1909 vdb's..... I'm SO ahead of the curve on this one......
http://www.coinshop.com
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
(1) Would it come back listed as "AT" ("artificially toned")?
(2) If it fell into the hands of a private collector who then sought to auction it off, would it sell for "MOON money", or, more appropriately, be the first described to sell for "MARS Money"?!
- - Dave
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.