Silver Maple Leaf weight?
kranky
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A brochure from the Royal Canadian Mint that I saw lists the stats for the Silver Maple Leaf as .9999 pure and a total weight of 31.390 grams. Given that one troy ounce weighs 31.1034768 grams, a coin that is .9999 fine should have a weight of 31.10658746 grams. If the Silver Maple Leaf indeed weighs 31.390 grams, that means it weighs 0.9% more than one troy ounce.
Can anyone link to a page on the RCM site that definitively states the weight of the Silver Maple Leaf? I could not find one.
If it's indeed true that the Silver Maple Leaf has almost 1% more silver than one troy ounce, that would be meaningful IMHO.
Can anyone link to a page on the RCM site that definitively states the weight of the Silver Maple Leaf? I could not find one.
If it's indeed true that the Silver Maple Leaf has almost 1% more silver than one troy ounce, that would be meaningful IMHO.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Does someone here have a silver maple leaf and a digital scale? It's hard to believe that they would give away free silver by making them heavier than necessary. >>
I completely agree. It makes no sense but that's what it looks like. I know there are going to be miniscule variations from coin to coin, but 1% over on all of them seems excessive. If you can buy based on stated weight, and sell based on actual weight, there's a free 1% bonus.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Perhaps the difference in the CML weights is that while the silver used is .9999 pure, the other additives (copper, etc.) are used in a greater percentage relative to an ASE, hence the bonus weight of +0.1% or so.
I have not yet located a similar sheet for the CML.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Perhaps the difference in the CML weights is that while the silver used is .9999 pure, the other additives (copper, etc.) are used in a greater percentage relative to an ASE, hence the bonus weight of +0.1% or so.
.9999 fineness refers to the coin itself.....not just the silver in the coin. If the CML has a fineness of .9999 and it weighs 31.39 grams, then that means there are 31.386861 grams of silver and .003139 grams of copper or whatever additive metal they use.
Weight in Troy OZ (Guaranteed): 1oz
Weight (g): 31.110g
Purity: .9999
Diameter (mm): 38
Thickness (mm): 3.15
Denomination (CAD): $5
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>There is no alloy in 9999 fine silver----only trace impurities. I think they make their coins slightly overweight so any coins produced at the low end of their manufacturing tolerances still weigh at least a full ounce. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Based on your figures, that would mean a CML would contain 31.386861 / 31.10348 = 1.0188 ozt of silver.
There is no alloy in 9999 fine silver----only trace impurities. I think they make their coins slightly overweight so any coins produced at the low end of their manufacturing tolerances still weigh at least a full ounce.
I agree with this statement in general, having worked in manufacturing for most of my career. However, it appears that kranky's brochure information does not match what jp297's email stated.
.9999 is equivalent to one part in ten thousand.
31.10348 grams / 10,000 parts = .003110348 grams / part
.003110348 * 9999 parts = 31.100369 (grams of silver)
.003110348 * 1 part = .003110348 (grams of additive / alloy / impurity)
Add those two together and you get 31.10348
The minimum weight per jp297's email is 31.110
So there is 31.110 - 31.10348 = .00652g of other stuff in there.
If you use kranky's brochure, either the amount of silver is higher than 1 ozt, the amount of additive is higher, or it is wrong.
The stated fineness refers to the metal in question only, not the overall item containing said metal.
<< <i>The stated fineness refers to the metal in question only, not the overall item containing said metal. >>
If I am understanding you correctly, this is not correct. In that case the purity stamped on a coin or bar would have no significance.
Could you say that a Krugerrand is .999 pure if that metal has been alloyed down to 22 karat or 91.67 percent?
In the case of the Canadian Mint purity has been an important selling point from .999 to .9999 and now .99999 for the recent gold mounties.
If I am understanding you correctly, this is not correct. In that case the purity stamped on a coin or bar would have no significance.
The purity of what the coin contains in troy ounces is what counts....a coin can weigh whatever, but if it states for example "1 troy ounce .999 fine silver" that's what counts.
<< <i>The purity of what the coin contains in troy ounces is what counts....a coin can weigh whatever, but if it states for example "1 troy ounce .999 fine silver" that's what counts. >>
Not true, the final purity of the product is just as important too, just ask any metal refiner.
Try to sell them an equal weight in pure silver of war nickels and sterling and see what you are offered for each.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>I can't see any logical reason that an item with other metals alloyed in can justifiably claim to be .9999 fine. It simply isn't. The fineness must apply to the entire piece. >>
Agree. Maple leafs are pure silver which is 9999 fine and has no alloy. I don't understand why this is so confusing to some people.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
International troy ounceA troy ounce (abbreviated as t oz) is equal to 480 grains. Consequently, the international troy ounce is equal to exactly 31.1034768 grams. There are 12 troy ounces in the now obsolete troy pound.
Today, the troy ounce is used only to express the mass of precious metals such as gold, platinum, palladium or silver. Bullion coins are the most common products produced and marketed in troy ounces, but precious metal bars also exist in gram and kilogram(kg) sizes. (A kilogram bullion bar contains 32.15074657 troy ounces.)
For historical measurement of gold,
a fine ounce is a troy ounce of 99.5% (".995") pure gold
a standard ounce is a troy ounce of 22 carat gold, 91.66% pure (an 11 to 1 proportion of gold to alloy material)
in modern day, an ounce of gold (1 troy ounce) is referred as a 99.99% pure gold piece or gold grains (gold shot)
PCGS #: 9979
Diameter: 32.70 millimeters Designer: Augustus Saint Gaudens/Miley Busiek
Weight: 33.93 grams Edge: Reeded
Metal Content: 91.67% Gold, 3% Silver, 5.33% Copper Mintage: 356,555
Then according to Kranky's brochure, a CML has just under 1.02 ozt troy of silver.
<< <i>The point I was trying to make is that a coin can contain 1 oz of fine Gold or Silver and weigh for example...33.93 grams as shown below.
International troy ounceA troy ounce (abbreviated as t oz) is equal to 480 grains. Consequently, the international troy ounce is equal to exactly 31.1034768 grams. There are 12 troy ounces in the now obsolete troy pound.
Today, the troy ounce is used only to express the mass of precious metals such as gold, platinum, palladium or silver. Bullion coins are the most common products produced and marketed in troy ounces, but precious metal bars also exist in gram and kilogram(kg) sizes. (A kilogram bullion bar contains 32.15074657 troy ounces.)
For historical measurement of gold,
a fine ounce is a troy ounce of 99.5% (".995") pure gold
a standard ounce is a troy ounce of 22 carat gold, 91.66% pure (an 11 to 1 proportion of gold to alloy material)
in modern day, an ounce of gold (1 troy ounce) is referred as a 99.99% pure gold piece or gold grains (gold shot)
PCGS #: 9979
Diameter: 32.70 millimeters Designer: Augustus Saint Gaudens/Miley Busiek
Weight: 33.93 grams Edge: Reeded
Metal Content: 91.67% Gold, 3% Silver, 5.33% Copper Mintage: 356,555
The .9999 as marketed by the CML refers to the ENTIRE COIN.....not to the actual silver contained within. So that .9999 fineness applies to the coin itself.
The AGE is commonly known to be 22kt, or .9167 fine. Although it contains a full ounce of gold, the fineness....which applies to the entire piece is noted as .9167.
A Chinese gold panda is 99.9 fine. Again, that applies to the entire coin, not just the gold part within the coin.
When government bullion coins have a stated fineness, that fineness applies to the coin as a whole.
For those who contend that stated fineness refers ONLY to the actual precious metal within a particular coin, and not to the entire coin itself, sorry but you are simply wrong.
<< <i>The stated fineness refers to the metal in question only, not the overall item containing said metal.
110% absolutely incorrect.
<< <i>So I am wrong on that. But according to kranky's information, the RCM is putting in >1 oz of silver in a CML, more than what I would consider just to be CYA silver to account for manufacturing tolerances. >>
It seems very odd to me as well that there would be such an overage. The only real way to test this theory is to have members who own silver CMLs and accurate digital scales report their actual findings.
All of mine are in OGP plastic, so I can't help here.
This discussion is almost enough to make me want to grab my scale and hit a few local dealers....in the name of science of course!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Due to normal manufacturing tolerances of mass produced items, the Canadian mint decided to make their coins slightly heavy so that those coins that are on the light side of their manufacturing tolerances still contain at least a full ounce of silver. The cost of the tiny amount of silver that they are giving away is small compared to the premiums they charge for their coins. >>
I can't believe that the Canadians are too lazy to just take a file and leave us some adjustment marks.
I've got 1,000 silver Maples so essentially I have several ounces of free silver....YAHOOOO!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Due to normal manufacturing tolerances of mass produced items, the Canadian mint decided to make their coins slightly heavy so that those coins that are on the light side of their manufacturing tolerances still contain at least a full ounce of silver. The cost of the tiny amount of silver that they are giving away is small compared to the premiums they charge for their coins. >>
I can't believe that the Canadians are too lazy to just take a file and leave us some adjustment marks.
Maybe it's cheaper to give away a tiny amount of silver than it is to make perfect planchets that weigh exactly 1.000 troy ounces.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Maybe it's cheaper to give away a tiny amount of silver than it is to make perfect planchets that weigh exactly 1.000 troy ounces. >>
That sounds likely. The a +/- 1% tolerance on an issue weight of 31.39g ensures that not a single maple leaf produced ever ends up being less than one troy ounce/31.1g
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Thanks for the datapoint - those 5 average 1.11% overweight, even more than the brochure's claimed weight. I know the overage is pretty small, but why not buy based on stated weight of one ounce, and if you have a hundred or more to sell, ask to be paid by weight? Having a hundred would be pretty good odds that you would have at least 101 oz by weight. That would be interesting. >>
I think the premium paid as a buyer quickly and decisively erases any small gain on actual weight. Since silver CML's typically sell for about $2 over spot, 100 of them @ $33 silver would cost $3500. If sold based on actual weight, one would get $3336 , or a net loss of $164.