<< <i>I say give him a break.....I don't want to ever see again what other young dealers have done to themselves when they have been busted and felt guilty. >>
Agreed....
It took guts for you to come out and admit it Comma. Kudos to you for that. And I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again. >>
But he did.... appears he doesn't take his commitments serious, even when he's already received payment. This kind of behavior dishonors the BST.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>I say give him a break.....I don't want to ever see again what other young dealers have done to themselves when they have been busted and felt guilty. >>
Agreed....
It took guts for you to come out and admit it Comma. Kudos to you for that. And I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again. >>
But he did.... >>
Derry, as long as he admits it after the fact he gets more chances
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Good thing this is only hobby money to you. Take the advice to sit back and watch, and read, and cease selling for a few months. The coins you want for your collection will still be there.
<< <i>I say give him a break.....I don't want to ever see again what other young dealers have done to themselves when they have been busted and felt guilty. >>
Agreed....
It took guts for you to come out and admit it Comma. Kudos to you for that. And I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again. >>
But he did.... >>
Derry, as long as he admits it after the fact he gets more chances >>
Exactly. And this is the point I was trying to make with my earlier (admittedly a little harsh) comment about the paypal "gift". When you have someone asking you to lie and cheat right off the bat, why would anyone then be surprised to find out they have other character problems?
The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control.
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
Exactly what I was going to add to my first post, but I didn't want to say too much.
Now that it's said by Ryk, I have to say, I totally agree!!
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
+50. Saying "it was me" after everyone pretty much knew who it was isn't really all that brave. IMO if casman had kept this under wraps and most regulars hadn't already deduced who the other party was (and most likely sent him a couple of PMs about it)...we'd have never seen this thread. Depend on it. OP simply wants to keep using BST (good luck with that), so this is just an attempt at what RYK stated so accurately...damage control. Things like this are why many here don't use BST.
And BTW... I thought our hosts didn't want these types of threads anymore?
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
Thank goodness there is still some sanity around here , nail on the head stuff RYK
<< <i>comma, be thankful and be aware that, as bad as you may think this issue may portray you in the business sense here, there are other other venues around where a kangaroo court is the norm, and resisting the spontaneous conviction of the pitchfork and torch crowd is futile. I had this experience over in the wasteland known as the OFR, and I'm actually glad I no longer have a membership there. Makes this place look like Shangri-La.
>>
CD,
I have no personal "beef" with you but for you or anyone to label the OFR with such a broad brush is simply unfair and untrue over personal issues with a couple of people.
Just last month that vast wasteland raised just over 1,000.00 in less than 24 hours for me to buy 2 ipad2's/cases/itunes cards for a friend of mine's 10 year old daughter (who has been battling brain cancer and appears to have won per the news/MRI rec'd last week) and her 12 year old brother.
This wasteland did so after I had merely mentioned that they had been to our house and that she was fascinated with my ipad and that I was going to try and find a deal on one. I never solicited them I never begged, etc. It snowballed out of control immediately.
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
100 % on target. The person backed out of 2 deals and was not even honest about the reason. The item is being resold on another venue even. That tells me what I need to know right there.
Had the person said " I made a mistake" and am making it right that's different. We all make mistakes and have serious laps of good judgemnet sometimes even one as serious as the person in question made. Integrity is shown in how we conduct ourselves in life and how we respond to errors we make be it in judgment or otherwise. I have not seen any effort expressed to make this right or even the realization of how wrong it is to conduct one self in this manner. Sadly integrity does not seem to be learned rather something we have or do not have.
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
100 % on target. The person backed out of 2 deals and was not even honest about the reason. The item is being resold on another venue even. That tells me what I need to know right there.
Had the person said " I made a mistake" and am making it right that's different. We all make mistakes and have serious laps of good judgemnet sometimes even one as serious as the person in question made. Integrity is shown in how we conduct ourselves in life and how we respond to errors we make be it in judgment or otherwise. I have not seen any effort expressed to make this right or even the realization of how wrong it is to conduct one self in this manner. Sadly integrity does not seem to be learned rather something we have or do not have. >>
I'm done with this thread because people will think whatever they want to think, but at least read the thread before you make a post. The item is NOT on another venue, and if you read my post I said "I made a mistake and I'm making right with casman" at least 10 times. >>
Unfortunately I have to admit this is what I didn't want to read......he has missed the big picture in a big way. This attitude whether it is immaturity or not wanting to face himself or the facts is what stands inthe way of the learning to change that I was speaking of.....I now have to agree completely with RYK. >>
I agree, He has a distorted view.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
<< <i>Don't know either of you, but until casman posts that he's right with you, your best bet might be to stop digging the hole deeper. >>
Yep, you're right. Shutting up for good on this topic. And I deserve all this, just sucks because everybody wants to be first in line to throw stones...even though everybody makes mistakes. I've learned from this regardless of what the majority here believes. And I'll keep learning from mistakes until I die, also just like the majority here.
Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't.
<< <i>Don't know either of you, but until casman posts that he's right with you, your best bet might be to stop digging the hole deeper. >>
Yep, you're right. Shutting up for good on this topic. And I deserve all this, just sucks because everybody wants to be first in line to throw stones...even though everybody makes mistakes. I've learned from this regardless of what the majority here believes. And I'll keep learning from mistakes until I die, also just like the majority here.
Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't. >>
Given the discussion/inferences elsewhere about other hinky deal(s), wouldn't this technically be a third or fourth chance?
When you click on the link to Comma's buy and sell link/thread, there are multiple references in that thread pointing to the fact that his coins, and his fathers coins, are commingled. One comment does indicate that his father is more interested in the modern stuff. And his Dad, apparently has a penchant for buying and selling his moderns, based on the fact that he does have Comma list them for him.
So it really is plausible that things went exactly as Comma said. His Dad wanted the coin. He informed Casman that his Dad wanted it. Casman did communicate that he'd allow Comma to back out of the sale, is that correct? And then his Dad flipped it after the fact. Heck, his Dad might have wanted it to flip it.
I'm not taking sides here, but I'm pointing out that this may not be as black and white as some are making it out to be. I guess ya'll can flame me for saying "it might not be black and white", but I'm just trying to point out that there is some evidence backing up Comma's story. What if (God Forbid), he's telling the truth about the series of events? Maybe he didn't handle it well, choosing blood over a forum member after the fact. But I wish I could take back about 10% of all of the decisions I made back when I was 22.
A deal is a deal in my book. If I was selling a coin for $10 or $10,000 it doesn't matter, even if I could get more elsewhere a deal is a deal and my reputation is worth more than the few extra bucks!
Edit to add- I agree with both Mike and Don above. I've lost money sticking to my word in the past on more than one occasion, including a screwup on my part where I ended up selling a one ounce gold coin not only under my cost, but under spot...
Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't.
Not to beat a dead horse, but chances are, you (and many other sellers) will never get a first chance from me. It is not personal, and it has nothing to do with this fiasco.
Why should I buy a coin from some dude I don't know on the BST who is fairly new to the forum when I can buy a coin from someone I know well?
I will answer the question:
1. Price--I am willing to pay more for a more established seller and have a more comfortable transaction.
2. Opportunity--It would be a very rare circumstance for a newbie to have greater access to the coins that I buy than I already have.
It is not part of my mission in the hobby to aid the development of new dealers and allow them to cut their teeth on my transactions.
That said, I would commend Goldeneyenumismatics (Will), who I believe is also in his early 20's, and make some significant distinctions:
1. He has an excellent eye and access to quality coins. 2. He has made great contacts. I met him in person at the ANA when he was interning for Heritage over the summer. I believe that he has also participated in ANA programs in Colorado Springs. 3. He is a bright, honorable person. 4. He spent time developing relationships with collectors on the USCF.
If I were a young newbie and wanted to get started in dealing coins, I would use Will as an example of how to do things right. I have no idea if he plans to pursue coins as a career (I doubt it), but he clearly knows how to build a reputation and following.
<< <i>comma, be thankful and be aware that, as bad as you may think this issue may portray you in the business sense here, there are other other venues around where a kangaroo court is the norm, and resisting the spontaneous conviction of the pitchfork and torch crowd is futile. I had this experience over in the wasteland known as the OFR, and I'm actually glad I no longer have a membership there. Makes this place look like Shangri-La. >>
Yeah, and the rudeness and vulgar language he displayed over there makes the city dump look like Shangri-La
<< <i>Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't.
Not to beat a dead horse, but chances are, you (and many other sellers) will never get a first chance from me. It is not personal, and it has nothing to do with this fiasco.
Why should I buy a coin from some dude I don't know on the BST who is fairly new to the forum when I can buy a coin from someone I know well?
I will answer the question:
1. Price--I am willing to pay more for a more established seller and have a more comfortable transaction.
2. Opportunity--It would be a very rare circumstance for a newbie to have greater access to the coins that I buy than I already have.
It is not part of my mission in the hobby to aid the development of new dealers and allow them to cut their teeth on my transactions.
That said, I would commend Goldeneyenumismatics (Will), who I believe is also in his early 20's, and make some significant distinctions:
1. He has an excellent eye and access to quality coins. 2. He has made great contacts. I met him in person at the ANA when he was interning for Heritage over the summer. I believe that he has also participated in ANA programs in Colorado Springs. 3. He is a bright, honorable person. 4. He spent time developing relationships with collectors on the USCF.
If I were a young newbie and wanted to get started in dealing coins, I would use Will as an example of how to do things right. I have no idea if he plans to pursue coins as a career (I doubt it), but he clearly knows how to build a reputation and following. >>
About the last thing I expected to find at the end (?) of a long, dramatic thread...solid advice coupled with a constructive example of someone who's doing it right.
If I were a young newbie who tried to make a confession and got lambasted like this, whether justified, partially justified, or not, I'd run from this hobby and find something else to collect. I hate seeing YNs getting this treatment, even if the critics are right. We need them badly.
<< <i>If I were a young newbie who tried to make a confession and got lambasted like this, whether justified, partially justified, or not, I'd run from this hobby and find something else to collect. I hate seeing YNs getting this treatment, even if the critics are right. We need them badly. >>
I make the distinction between collectors and sellers, between hobbyists and dealers. I agree, we need more collectors, but I do not think that we need more dealers who behave poorly. To them, I say, good riddance.
Absolutley true...
Realone, please stop agreeing with everyone on both sides of the argument.
<< <i>If I were a young newbie who tried to make a confession and got lambasted like this, whether justified, partially justified, or not, I'd run from this hobby and find something else to collect. I hate seeing YNs getting this treatment, even if the critics are right. We need them badly. >>
A confession is generally done before being outed. Had he confessed before Casman had posted I might agree. BTW, this exact same thing, EXACT SAME THING, happened a month ago involving the anniversary sets.
You hate seeing a YN get this treatment. Tell that to Casman, the anniversary set person, or anyone else who this might have happened to.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I am sorry, but "stepping up and admitting you're wrong" shouldn't include a long diatribe of conflicting statements trying to justify what happened.
Here is what doesn't smell right to me and the OP has never really explained. Apparently his dad wanted the coin bad enough for the OP to risk his reputation, reneg on a deal with Casman for which payment was already sent, and give the coin away for free to his dad. Sounds like his dad must have REALLY wanted the coin. If so, then why would he turn around and sell it on eBay the next week? If I went through all that trouble to give a gift to my father I'd be pretty upset if he turned around and tried to sell it for "its true value on the secondary market". Doesn't this sound odd to anyone else?
The conflicting statements from the OP in this thread dont help much either and are only digging his hole deeper:
<< <i>We both (me/my dad and casman) were trying to make as much as we could off of the same coin...which I think anyone here can attest to >>
<< <i>It wasn't greed because ultimately the coin wasn't even in my hands. I had given it to my dad. >>
<< <i>I understand the greed part, but in this situation it was actually the opposite of greed. I turned down doubling my money for giving my dad a coin he wanted. I didn't make a dollar. But greed is definitely somewhere in there. >>
<< <i>my fault for not doing enough research I guess. >>
Age is not as significant as some of you are making it out to be. There are plenty of YNs on here that have not had to have it "slapped into them that a deal is a deal." As someone who buys and trades a lot of bullion, it is a rule that a deal is a deal the second it is agreed to. With fluctuating prices it is unethical to back out because gold went up after you agreed to sell a bunch. This seems to be a similar situation. The dad putting up his gift on eBay just seems wrong to me. That being said, I hope the two original parties can work this out between themselves. My 2 cents, back to playing with my bullion.
I posted earlier about Comma "manning up". Some have replied to my comment saying that admitting it after being caught or outted is not manning up. This is my response to that. Casman never outted Comma. Instead, Casman said that he would not do that. Some of you may have deduced who the culprit was and many have said that they knew. However, I lurk here fairly often and post sometimes. I had no clue who the culprit was. I suspect many more of us also had no clue. So from where I sit, Comma did man up before he was outted. Maybe I am way off base because many of you spend more time here than I do and may have known much more than I. But for those of us who could not deduce who it was, it appears he did come forward and admit his wrongdoing. That is a step in the right direction.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward.
<< <i>I posted earlier about Comma "manning up". Some have replied to my comment saying that admitting it after being caught or outted is not manning up. This is my response to that. Casman never outted Comma. Instead, Casman said that he would not do that. Some of you may have deduced who the culprit was and many have said that they knew. However, I lurk here fairly often and post sometimes. I had no clue who the culprit was. I suspect many more of us also had no clue. So from where I sit, Comma did man up before he was outted. Maybe I am way off base because many of you spend more time here than I do and may have known much more than I. But for those of us who could not deduce who it was, it appears he did come forward and admit his wrongdoing. That is a step in the right direction.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward. >>
You ever think he "manned up" because 50 members asked casman to PM them his name???
<< <i>I posted earlier about Comma "manning up". Some have replied to my comment saying that admitting it after being caught or outted is not manning up. This is my response to that. Casman never outted Comma. Instead, Casman said that he would not do that. Some of you may have deduced who the culprit was and many have said that they knew. However, I lurk here fairly often and post sometimes. I had no clue who the culprit was. I suspect many more of us also had no clue. So from where I sit, Comma did man up before he was outted. Maybe I am way off base because many of you spend more time here than I do and may have known much more than I. But for those of us who could not deduce who it was, it appears he did come forward and admit his wrongdoing. That is a step in the right direction.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward. >>
You ever think he "manned up" because 50 members asked casman to PM them his name??? >>
I just don't think so:
<< <i>That is correct, I will not mention or PM this persons name. - Casman >>
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I posted earlier about Comma "manning up". Some have replied to my comment saying that admitting it after being caught or outted is not manning up. This is my response to that. Casman never outted Comma. Instead, Casman said that he would not do that. Some of you may have deduced who the culprit was and many have said that they knew. However, I lurk here fairly often and post sometimes. I had no clue who the culprit was. I suspect many more of us also had no clue. So from where I sit, Comma did man up before he was outted. Maybe I am way off base because many of you spend more time here than I do and may have known much more than I. But for those of us who could not deduce who it was, it appears he did come forward and admit his wrongdoing. That is a step in the right direction.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward. >>
You ever think he "manned up" because 50 members asked casman to PM them his name??? >>
I don;t think so:
<< <i>That is correct, I will not mention or PM this persons name. - Casman >>
>>
Wrong! How much you wanna bet members did get his name from Casman?
<< <i>Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't.
Not to beat a dead horse, but chances are, you (and many other sellers) will never get a first chance from me. It is not personal, and it has nothing to do with this fiasco.
Why should I buy a coin from some dude I don't know on the BST who is fairly new to the forum when I can buy a coin from someone I know well?
I will answer the question:
1. Price--I am willing to pay more for a more established seller and have a more comfortable transaction.
2. Opportunity--It would be a very rare circumstance for a newbie to have greater access to the coins that I buy than I already have.
It is not part of my mission in the hobby to aid the development of new dealers and allow them to cut their teeth on my transactions.
That said, I would commend Goldeneyenumismatics (Will), who I believe is also in his early 20's, and make some significant distinctions:
1. He has an excellent eye and access to quality coins. 2. He has made great contacts. I met him in person at the ANA when he was interning for Heritage over the summer. I believe that he has also participated in ANA programs in Colorado Springs. 3. He is a bright, honorable person. 4. He spent time developing relationships with collectors on the USCF.
If I were a young newbie and wanted to get started in dealing coins, I would use Will as an example of how to do things right. I have no idea if he plans to pursue coins as a career (I doubt it), but he clearly knows how to build a reputation and following. >>
What is the point in telling someone you will never buy a coin from them? Just dont do it and thats all you need to do. Do you send emails to the thousands of dealers around the world you will never buy coins from?
I would be frustrated as the buyer as well however at what point is becoming aware that you hold something much more valuable than what you think and turning back become immoral? If the refund was prompt and agreed upon by the buyer, should the buyer really care that it went to ebay to obtain its true value? I realize it just salted his wounds after thinking he was getting a nice cherry pick, but how is this different than an old lady selling a key date to a B&M for melt then coming back when she found out she had been swindled. Wasnt there a story recently about this kind of thing? Is it really any differnt?
What is the point in telling someone you will never buy a coin from them?
Because it is in the context of this discussion. I was not speaking specifically to the OP, either, as I was to dealers in general.
What is the point of you asking me stupid questions? Do you go around and ask everyone for their motivations for their posts on the thousands of threads?
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I say give him a break.....I don't want to ever see again what other young dealers have done to themselves when they have been busted and felt guilty. >>
Agreed....
It took guts for you to come out and admit it Comma. Kudos to you for that. And I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again. >>
But he did.... appears he doesn't take his commitments serious, even when he's already received payment. This kind of behavior dishonors the BST.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I say give him a break.....I don't want to ever see again what other young dealers have done to themselves when they have been busted and felt guilty. >>
Agreed....
It took guts for you to come out and admit it Comma. Kudos to you for that. And I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again. >>
But he did.... >>
Derry, as long as he admits it after the fact he gets more chances
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I say give him a break.....I don't want to ever see again what other young dealers have done to themselves when they have been busted and felt guilty. >>
Agreed....
It took guts for you to come out and admit it Comma. Kudos to you for that. And I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again. >>
But he did.... >>
Derry, as long as he admits it after the fact he gets more chances
Exactly. And this is the point I was trying to make with my earlier (admittedly a little harsh) comment about the paypal "gift". When you have someone asking you to lie and cheat right off the bat, why would anyone then be surprised to find out they have other character problems?
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control.
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
Exactly what I was going to add to my first post, but I didn't want to say too much.
Now that it's said by Ryk, I have to say, I totally agree!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
+50. Saying "it was me" after everyone pretty much knew who it was isn't really all that brave. IMO if casman had kept this under wraps and most regulars hadn't already deduced who the other party was (and most likely sent him a couple of PMs about it)...we'd have never seen this thread. Depend on it.
OP simply wants to keep using BST (good luck with that), so this is just an attempt at what RYK stated so accurately...damage control. Things like this are why many here don't use BST.
And BTW... I thought our hosts didn't want these types of threads anymore?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
Thank goodness there is still some sanity around here , nail on the head stuff RYK
<< <i>comma, be thankful and be aware that, as bad as you may think this issue may portray you in the business sense here, there are other other venues around where a kangaroo court is the norm, and resisting the spontaneous conviction of the pitchfork and torch crowd is futile. I had this experience over in the wasteland known as the OFR, and I'm actually glad I no longer have a membership there. Makes this place look like Shangri-La.
>>
CD,
I have no personal "beef" with you but for you or anyone to label the OFR with such a broad brush is simply unfair and untrue over personal issues with a couple of people.
Just last month that vast wasteland raised just over 1,000.00 in less than 24 hours for me to buy 2 ipad2's/cases/itunes cards for a friend of mine's 10 year old daughter (who has been battling brain cancer and appears to have won per the news/MRI rec'd last week) and her 12 year old brother.
This wasteland did so after I had merely mentioned that they had been to our house and that she was fascinated with my ipad and that I was going to try and find a deal on one. I never solicited them I never begged, etc. It snowballed out of control immediately.
There's good and bad EVERYWHERE.
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
100 % on target. The person backed out of 2 deals and was not even honest about the reason. The item is being resold on another venue even. That tells me what I need to know right there.
Had the person said " I made a mistake" and am making it right that's different. We all make mistakes and have serious laps of good judgemnet sometimes even one as serious as the person in question made. Integrity is shown in how we conduct ourselves in life and how we respond to errors we make be it in judgment or otherwise. I have not seen any effort expressed to make this right or even the realization of how wrong it is to conduct one self in this manner. Sadly integrity does not seem to be learned rather something we have or do not have.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
100 % on target. The person backed out of 2 deals and was not even honest about the reason. The item is being resold on another venue even. That tells me what I need to know right there.
Had the person said " I made a mistake" and am making it right that's different. We all make mistakes and have serious laps of good judgemnet sometimes even one as serious as the person in question made. Integrity is shown in how we conduct ourselves in life and how we respond to errors we make be it in judgment or otherwise. I have not seen any effort expressed to make this right or even the realization of how wrong it is to conduct one self in this manner. Sadly integrity does not seem to be learned rather something we have or do not have.
I'm done with this thread because people will think whatever they want to think, but at least read the thread before you make a post.
The item is NOT on another venue, and if you read my post I said "I made a mistake and I'm making right with casman" at least 10 times. >>
Unfortunately I have to admit this is what I didn't want to read......he has missed the big picture in a big way. This attitude whether it is immaturity or not wanting to face himself or the facts is what stands inthe way of the learning to change that I was speaking of.....I now have to agree completely with RYK. >>
I agree, He has a distorted view.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>The following applies to similar situations, both on and off the forum:
I do not think someone deserves kudos and props for "manning up" and making a statement after they have been called to the carpet for bad behavior, outed, and criticized. It's called damage control, and everyone does it. Everyone.
What would be laudable would be someone realizing that they made a mistake and proactively asking the forum for suggestions on how to right the situation before it escalates and is out of control. >>
Agree 100%
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Don't know either of you, but until casman posts that he's right with you, your best bet might be to stop digging the hole deeper. >>
Yep, you're right. Shutting up for good on this topic.
And I deserve all this, just sucks because everybody wants to be first in line to throw stones...even though everybody makes mistakes.
I've learned from this regardless of what the majority here believes.
And I'll keep learning from mistakes until I die, also just like the majority here.
Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't.
<< <i>
<< <i>Don't know either of you, but until casman posts that he's right with you, your best bet might be to stop digging the hole deeper. >>
Yep, you're right. Shutting up for good on this topic.
And I deserve all this, just sucks because everybody wants to be first in line to throw stones...even though everybody makes mistakes.
I've learned from this regardless of what the majority here believes.
And I'll keep learning from mistakes until I die, also just like the majority here.
Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't. >>
Given the discussion/inferences elsewhere about other hinky deal(s), wouldn't this technically be a third or fourth chance?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
When you click on the link to Comma's buy and sell link/thread, there are multiple references in that thread pointing to the fact that his coins, and his fathers coins, are commingled. One comment does indicate that his father is more interested in the modern stuff. And his Dad, apparently has a penchant for buying and selling his moderns, based on the fact that he does have Comma list them for him.
So it really is plausible that things went exactly as Comma said. His Dad wanted the coin. He informed Casman that his Dad wanted it. Casman did communicate that he'd allow Comma to back out of the sale, is that correct? And then his Dad flipped it after the fact. Heck, his Dad might have wanted it to flip it.
I'm not taking sides here, but I'm pointing out that this may not be as black and white as some are making it out to be. I guess ya'll can flame me for saying "it might not be black and white", but I'm just trying to point out that there is some evidence backing up Comma's story. What if (God Forbid), he's telling the truth about the series of events? Maybe he didn't handle it well, choosing blood over a forum member after the fact. But I wish I could take back about 10% of all of the decisions I made back when I was 22.
Steve
The most valuable thing you have in life is the value of your word.
Edit to add- I agree with both Mike and Don above. I've lost money sticking to my word in the past on more than one occasion, including a screwup on my part where I ended up selling a one ounce gold coin not only under my cost, but under spot...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
meet Sports card forum.
Not to beat a dead horse, but chances are, you (and many other sellers) will never get a first chance from me. It is not personal, and it has nothing to do with this fiasco.
Why should I buy a coin from some dude I don't know on the BST who is fairly new to the forum when I can buy a coin from someone I know well?
I will answer the question:
1. Price--I am willing to pay more for a more established seller and have a more comfortable transaction.
2. Opportunity--It would be a very rare circumstance for a newbie to have greater access to the coins that I buy than I already have.
It is not part of my mission in the hobby to aid the development of new dealers and allow them to cut their teeth on my transactions.
That said, I would commend Goldeneyenumismatics (Will), who I believe is also in his early 20's, and make some significant distinctions:
1. He has an excellent eye and access to quality coins.
2. He has made great contacts. I met him in person at the ANA when he was interning for Heritage over the summer. I believe that he has also participated in ANA programs in Colorado Springs.
3. He is a bright, honorable person.
4. He spent time developing relationships with collectors on the USCF.
If I were a young newbie and wanted to get started in dealing coins, I would use Will as an example of how to do things right. I have no idea if he plans to pursue coins as a career (I doubt it), but he clearly knows how to build a reputation and following.
<< <i>comma, be thankful and be aware that, as bad as you may think this issue may portray you in the business sense here, there are other other venues around where a kangaroo court is the norm, and resisting the spontaneous conviction of the pitchfork and torch crowd is futile. I had this experience over in the wasteland known as the OFR, and I'm actually glad I no longer have a membership there. Makes this place look like Shangri-La. >>
Yeah, and the rudeness and vulgar language he displayed over there makes the city dump look like Shangri-La
<< <i>Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't.
Not to beat a dead horse, but chances are, you (and many other sellers) will never get a first chance from me. It is not personal, and it has nothing to do with this fiasco.
Why should I buy a coin from some dude I don't know on the BST who is fairly new to the forum when I can buy a coin from someone I know well?
I will answer the question:
1. Price--I am willing to pay more for a more established seller and have a more comfortable transaction.
2. Opportunity--It would be a very rare circumstance for a newbie to have greater access to the coins that I buy than I already have.
It is not part of my mission in the hobby to aid the development of new dealers and allow them to cut their teeth on my transactions.
That said, I would commend Goldeneyenumismatics (Will), who I believe is also in his early 20's, and make some significant distinctions:
1. He has an excellent eye and access to quality coins.
2. He has made great contacts. I met him in person at the ANA when he was interning for Heritage over the summer. I believe that he has also participated in ANA programs in Colorado Springs.
3. He is a bright, honorable person.
4. He spent time developing relationships with collectors on the USCF.
If I were a young newbie and wanted to get started in dealing coins, I would use Will as an example of how to do things right. I have no idea if he plans to pursue coins as a career (I doubt it), but he clearly knows how to build a reputation and following. >>
About the last thing I expected to find at the end (?) of a long, dramatic thread...solid advice coupled with a constructive example of someone who's doing it right.
Wondercoin
<< <i>If I were a young newbie who tried to make a confession and got lambasted like this, whether justified, partially justified, or not, I'd run from this hobby and find something else to collect. I hate seeing YNs getting this treatment, even if the critics are right. We need them badly. >>
I make the distinction between collectors and sellers, between hobbyists and dealers. I agree, we need more collectors, but I do not think that we need more dealers who behave poorly. To them, I say, good riddance.
Absolutley true...
Realone, please stop agreeing with everyone on both sides of the argument.
<< <i>If I were a young newbie who tried to make a confession and got lambasted like this, whether justified, partially justified, or not, I'd run from this hobby and find something else to collect. I hate seeing YNs getting this treatment, even if the critics are right. We need them badly. >>
A confession is generally done before being outed. Had he confessed before Casman had posted I might agree. BTW, this exact same thing, EXACT SAME THING, happened a month ago involving the anniversary sets.
You hate seeing a YN get this treatment. Tell that to Casman, the anniversary set person, or anyone else who this might have happened to.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
Here is what doesn't smell right to me and the OP has never really explained. Apparently his dad wanted the coin bad enough for the OP to risk his reputation, reneg on a deal with Casman for which payment was already sent, and give the coin away for free to his dad. Sounds like his dad must have REALLY wanted the coin. If so, then why would he turn around and sell it on eBay the next week? If I went through all that trouble to give a gift to my father I'd be pretty upset if he turned around and tried to sell it for "its true value on the secondary market". Doesn't this sound odd to anyone else?
The conflicting statements from the OP in this thread dont help much either and are only digging his hole deeper:
<< <i>We both (me/my dad and casman) were trying to make as much as we could off of the same coin...which I think anyone here can attest to >>
<< <i>It wasn't greed because ultimately the coin wasn't even in my hands. I had given it to my dad. >>
<< <i>I understand the greed part, but in this situation it was actually the opposite of greed. I turned down doubling my money for giving my dad a coin he wanted. I didn't make a dollar. But greed is definitely somewhere in there. >>
<< <i>my fault for not doing enough research I guess. >>
Age is not as significant as some of you are making it out to be. There are plenty of YNs on here that have not had to have it "slapped into them that a deal is a deal." As someone who buys and trades a lot of bullion, it is a rule that a deal is a deal the second it is agreed to. With fluctuating prices it is unethical to back out because gold went up after you agreed to sell a bunch. This seems to be a similar situation. The dad putting up his gift on eBay just seems wrong to me. That being said, I hope the two original parties can work this out between themselves. My 2 cents, back to playing with my bullion.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward.
<< <i>I posted earlier about Comma "manning up". Some have replied to my comment saying that admitting it after being caught or outted is not manning up. This is my response to that. Casman never outted Comma. Instead, Casman said that he would not do that. Some of you may have deduced who the culprit was and many have said that they knew. However, I lurk here fairly often and post sometimes. I had no clue who the culprit was. I suspect many more of us also had no clue. So from where I sit, Comma did man up before he was outted. Maybe I am way off base because many of you spend more time here than I do and may have known much more than I. But for those of us who could not deduce who it was, it appears he did come forward and admit his wrongdoing. That is a step in the right direction.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward. >>
You ever think he "manned up" because 50 members asked casman to PM them his name???
<< <i>
<< <i>I posted earlier about Comma "manning up". Some have replied to my comment saying that admitting it after being caught or outted is not manning up. This is my response to that. Casman never outted Comma. Instead, Casman said that he would not do that. Some of you may have deduced who the culprit was and many have said that they knew. However, I lurk here fairly often and post sometimes. I had no clue who the culprit was. I suspect many more of us also had no clue. So from where I sit, Comma did man up before he was outted. Maybe I am way off base because many of you spend more time here than I do and may have known much more than I. But for those of us who could not deduce who it was, it appears he did come forward and admit his wrongdoing. That is a step in the right direction.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward. >>
You ever think he "manned up" because 50 members asked casman to PM them his name??? >>
I just don't think so:
<< <i>That is correct, I will not mention or PM this persons name. - Casman >>
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I posted earlier about Comma "manning up". Some have replied to my comment saying that admitting it after being caught or outted is not manning up. This is my response to that. Casman never outted Comma. Instead, Casman said that he would not do that. Some of you may have deduced who the culprit was and many have said that they knew. However, I lurk here fairly often and post sometimes. I had no clue who the culprit was. I suspect many more of us also had no clue. So from where I sit, Comma did man up before he was outted. Maybe I am way off base because many of you spend more time here than I do and may have known much more than I. But for those of us who could not deduce who it was, it appears he did come forward and admit his wrongdoing. That is a step in the right direction.
I am not approving of what Comma did or even how he has handled it since. He has come on here to admit his mistake and apologize for it. As far as I know, he has never said anything about making it right. That would be a better step in the right direction. So don't get me wrong, I am not approving of anything, just pointing out that some of us would have never known the culprit if he didn't step forward. >>
You ever think he "manned up" because 50 members asked casman to PM them his name??? >>
I don;t think so:
<< <i>That is correct, I will not mention or PM this persons name. - Casman >>
>>
Wrong! How much you wanna bet members did get his name from Casman?
comma, go use Ebay instead of BST. Get more, be happy. BST is not your cup of tea, obviously.
<< <i>Thank you to those who will give me a second chance, and sorry to those who won't.
Not to beat a dead horse, but chances are, you (and many other sellers) will never get a first chance from me. It is not personal, and it has nothing to do with this fiasco.
Why should I buy a coin from some dude I don't know on the BST who is fairly new to the forum when I can buy a coin from someone I know well?
I will answer the question:
1. Price--I am willing to pay more for a more established seller and have a more comfortable transaction.
2. Opportunity--It would be a very rare circumstance for a newbie to have greater access to the coins that I buy than I already have.
It is not part of my mission in the hobby to aid the development of new dealers and allow them to cut their teeth on my transactions.
That said, I would commend Goldeneyenumismatics (Will), who I believe is also in his early 20's, and make some significant distinctions:
1. He has an excellent eye and access to quality coins.
2. He has made great contacts. I met him in person at the ANA when he was interning for Heritage over the summer. I believe that he has also participated in ANA programs in Colorado Springs.
3. He is a bright, honorable person.
4. He spent time developing relationships with collectors on the USCF.
If I were a young newbie and wanted to get started in dealing coins, I would use Will as an example of how to do things right. I have no idea if he plans to pursue coins as a career (I doubt it), but he clearly knows how to build a reputation and following. >>
What is the point in telling someone you will never buy a coin from them? Just dont do it and thats all you need to do. Do you send emails to the thousands of dealers around the world you will never buy coins from?
I would be frustrated as the buyer as well however at what point is becoming aware that you hold something much more valuable than what you think and turning back become immoral? If the refund was prompt and agreed upon by the buyer, should the buyer really care that it went to ebay to obtain its true value? I realize it just salted his wounds after thinking he was getting a nice cherry pick, but how is this different than an old lady selling a key date to a B&M for melt then coming back when she found out she had been swindled. Wasnt there a story recently about this kind of thing? Is it really any differnt?
<< <i>I'd bet 1 Billion dollars, but that's just me. >>
If you say so. Not the point, though. It looked like comma would be outed due to all the PM requests.
Because it is in the context of this discussion. I was not speaking specifically to the OP, either, as I was to dealers in general.
What is the point of you asking me stupid questions? Do you go around and ask everyone for their motivations for their posts on the thousands of threads?