well if they were smart they would do just as Steve does to accommodate a very captive and large audience. You don't think these group rips have been a boon to Steve's business? Not knocking him of course, just saying we have $$ to spend here.
Barring that, we could just all buy directly from Fritsch. I mean even though we are nothing more than card geeks, we are still members of the general public--and last I checked, Fritsch sold to the general public
What if someone who lives near Dave can assist in the opening of the boxes and help ship them out. I know Jeff (jeffcbay) offered to do this on Dave's earlier box rip and Dave was receptive to it. Just a thought to help ease everyone's minds.
Mike that does not solve the problem.....the boxes will be there before Jeff gets there
here is what I suggest. Set up the deal, like is normally done with Steve, pay Fritsch directly, have FRITSCH ship it.
Why is there any need to deviate from what we know already works? Why would anyone need to deviate from what we know already works? >>
Good Morning Manny. It is worth a try to see if Fritsch would be willing to do it. I was actually saying to have Jeff or anyone else there to open the shipping boxes that were sent from Fritsch, not to just be there to see the packs taken out of the boxes. Give us CPA's a little more credit, lol.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Let me see if I understand the details of this rip.
The participants will NOT be dealing with BBCX, they will be dealing with you. As of yet there is no discount or incentive being offered to the group. Fristch is the "source" you hope to "tap" But they haven't been contacted yet The packs will not be shipped directly to the participants' homes, they will be shipped to your home.
Why buy direct from an established dealer when you can have your packs sent to the home of someone else first? >>
I'll make this easy. I'm immediately suspending my efforts to try and to bring this inventory into our reach at closer to current market levels. This thread is cancelled.
We'll just have to make due with the current supply levels from BBCE.
If anyone wants to work off-line to find a way to get this other inventory flowing more regularly into the market feel free to PM me and we can try to come up with an alternate strategy.
Why buy direct from an established dealer when you can have your packs sent to the home of someone else first? >>
I'll make this easy. I'm immediately suspending my efforts to try and to bring this inventory into our reach at closer to current market levels. This thread is cancelled.
We'll just have to make due with the current supply levels from BBCE.
If anyone wants to work off-line to find a way to get this other inventory flowing more regularly into the market feel free to PM me and we can try to come up with an alternate strategy. >>
Smart move! Sorry but way too much cloak and dagger stuff going on.
I think the problem with Fritsch is that they are an old company who are set in their ways. Sad to see Larry pass away but it would be nice to see them step into the 21st century now.
<< <i> We'll just have to make due with the current supply levels from BBCE. >>
You make it sound like LF will only deal with you?
To be fair, I checked out the Larry Fritsch winter catalog and they have the 1979 Rack box listed at $1075. That breaks down to $44.79/pack. So the price you were estimating based on this, while high, matches what they have advertised.
70ToppsFanatic, you seem rather new to these boards and I think you need to realize that the majority of people here are out to help each other ... and many have seen it all before ... so if something doesn't seem right they'll speak up ... and eventually things get fixed.
I think trying to bring the LF supply to this board is a great idea. I've communicated with them in the past and they've always been professional, though I've never been able to pry a rack box out of their hands. But they might be more interested in wheeling and dealing with these boards as it would afford them much more $$$. I say someone with more experience at these rips take the reigns, contact LF, and if they are open to it, start a new thread and wipe the slate clean. >>
Paul, I never said any such thing.
And as you are confirming now everything was on the up and up. Since arriving I thought it was clear that I was 100% about trying to help each other out and add to the community. Please PM me if you feel I have done anything that is inconsistent with that.
As for LF, they tend to deal with everyone on this material the same way....kinda like OPEC. They have always been a sell at "top dollar" or dont sell kind of company. And your comment about "prying loose" is dead on with regard to this inventory. They are always professional, but with these items they can be downright miserly even when someone is willing to pay their inflated full list price. Perhaps they just don't want to put too much into the market for fear of killing the prices, but when one can get a 1973 Topps Wax Box (series 4) on Ebay via Rick Probstein for $1800 or the one that LF consigned to collectauctions.com last fall for $1825 it seems a bit contrived/greedy that when someone comes to LF looking for one from their catalog they won't budge from $1975, if the deem you worthy enough to sell it to at all.
As part of what I was trying to accomplish here I had planted a seed with them regarding a potential 5-figure transaction to see if that could gain any leverage onto our side. It was early days, but so far it was more promising than any attempts I have made in the past, or any that I am aware of from others who I spoke with about their dealings with LF (that seed is still planted but will likely wither now). My concern was that by trying to get them to operate in a BBCE-like style it would be too much too fast. It could also hand back all leverage to them (e.g. they could push back with the excuse of having to do more work breaking this up individually justifies their higher price). Better to get a simple transaction going with a difficult seller first and then try to grow it than to swing for the fences in the first at bat and strike out. At least that seemed to me like the path most likely to get the ball rolling.
You and I are on much the same wavelength in terms of whetting their appetite a bit with a large transaction. The only difference I see is that my approach was stepwise and incremental versus the all-in-1 step that I believe will be much harder with them. The only people I wanted to keep in the dark were the ones at LF, so as not to scare them off (e.g. by seeing their name in print in a thread here) or trigger their historical OPEC minister-like behavior. I openly solicited anyone who had concerns to PM me and gave them the full scoop...you yourself did this. Am I saying anything here that is inconsistent with what I told you in the PM?
They have a history of being difficult on these items. My opinion is that it will be easier to gradually indoctrinate LF into a formal relationship here once they start getting comfortable with the benefit of seeing some bigger $$$ roll in for these items in simpler transactions. They are just not that fast moving an organization based on both my personal experience, and that of many others here including yourself it seems. If that means the first few transactions need to have an intermediate stop, what's the big deal if it is someone who is willing to do it that has a spotless record, who is willing to have other forum members audit the activities as they are conducted, etc.?
Perhaps I could have figured out a better way to communicate this, but to allow some poorly-motivated people to jump well beyond the line of being cautious/protective so that they could destroy a genuine effort to make our little group a better place is unfortunate.
In any event, I welcome a clean slate approach to trying to bring the LF inventory on-line. I still think they need to be eased into it versus going straight in. IF anyone thinks they have a better way I'd love to hear it. It would be nice to have an easy path forward, but there's a recurring pattern here from LF which seems to indicate that this isnt the case.
<< <i>Perhaps I could have figured out a better way to communicate this, but to allow some poorly-motivated people to jump well beyond the line of being cautious/protective so that they could destroy a genuine effort to make our little group a better place is unfortunate. >>
You are self-serving and FOS. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has expressed concern about this poorly-organized and lamely-communicated attempt to get members to send money to an established company that you supposedly have an "in" with, was done purely out of respect for the group and genuine caution. AND from prior experiences a few years ago (which I'd bet you recall - just under a different username).
So you're on here since Sept, and after a few months you appoint yourself official organizer of unopened rips, claiming to have a connection that in actuality is not a connection at all, but only a series of phone calls you made to Fritsch to pester them into a lower price. Then you start a group rip with the full knowledge that Fritsch has not yet indicated that a price will even be discounted for the rip.
And the price you quoted in the group rip thread is higher than the price listed on their website? Why is that? If you knew Fritsch was your "source", and you expected a group discount, why would you quote $105 group discount price when $89 is their price to buy one single pack at retail?
I tell you what - if you want to make our "little group a better place" as you say, why don't you actually have a group deal in place before you begin a group rip. And more importantly (and this is what really bugs me about you), when members here point out at least 5 very obvious red flags, stop whining about them being as "poorly motivated" or just trying to derail your thread.
If you expect members to trust you with $5K or more, you'd better have your ducks in a row. And if you don't, then you should have the ballls to politely back off without crying about the negative motivations of others. >>
I suppose it all comes down to trust. I really don't see this being any different than the multitude of group rips or box breaks I see on other sites. There are some rips where the individual let's someone else open the material! Like I stated earlier, I'm 100% confident that the best interest of the community is the priority for 70Toppsfanatic. I understand the concern but the blatant attacks of his character is what gets me. It seems like the individual that ripped the boards off last time, understandably, still bothers some today. It's a great hobby and I do appreciate 70TppsFanatics genuine effort and attempt to start a group rip. I suppose it'll just take a phone call or email requesting LF to get this material out to different people and extend a discount. At least the boards are now aware of a very reputable source of unopened material. Speaking of the catalog, anyone see the 71 Topps vending boxes in it?
Comments
Barring that, we could just all buy directly from Fritsch. I mean even though we are nothing more than card geeks, we are still members of the general public--and last I checked, Fritsch sold to the general public
<< <i>morning gents!
What if someone who lives near Dave can assist in the opening of the boxes and help ship them out. I know Jeff (jeffcbay) offered to do this on Dave's earlier box rip and Dave was receptive to it. Just a thought to help ease everyone's minds.
Mike that does not solve the problem.....the boxes will be there before Jeff gets there
here is what I suggest. Set up the deal, like is normally done with Steve, pay Fritsch directly, have FRITSCH ship it.
Why is there any need to deviate from what we know already works? Why would anyone need to deviate from what we know already works? >>
Good Morning Manny. It is worth a try to see if Fritsch would be willing to do it. I was actually saying to have Jeff or anyone else there to open the shipping boxes that were sent from Fritsch, not to just be there to see the packs taken out of the boxes. Give us CPA's a little more credit, lol.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
The participants will NOT be dealing with BBCX, they will be dealing with you.
As of yet there is no discount or incentive being offered to the group.
Fristch is the "source" you hope to "tap"
But they haven't been contacted yet
The packs will not be shipped directly to the participants' homes, they will be shipped to your home.
LOL yeah put me down for ten of everything
<< <i>
<< <i>1975 Topps Baseball Cello Box 1: est cost $100.00-$105.00/pack >>
Fritsch has 75 cellos on sale for $89.95 each
Buy direct. Save some $. >>
Why buy direct from an established dealer when you can have your packs sent to the home of someone else first?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>1975 Topps Baseball Cello Box 1: est cost $100.00-$105.00/pack >>
Fritsch has 75 cellos on sale for $89.95 each
Buy direct. Save some $. >>
Why buy direct from an established dealer when you can have your packs sent to the home of someone else first? >>
I'll make this easy. I'm immediately suspending my efforts to try and to bring this inventory into our reach at closer to current market levels.
This thread is cancelled.
We'll just have to make due with the current supply levels from BBCE.
If anyone wants to work off-line to find a way to get this other inventory flowing more regularly into the market feel free to PM me and
we can try to come up with an alternate strategy.
Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>1975 Topps Baseball Cello Box 1: est cost $100.00-$105.00/pack >>
Fritsch has 75 cellos on sale for $89.95 each
Buy direct. Save some $. >>
Why buy direct from an established dealer when you can have your packs sent to the home of someone else first? >>
I'll make this easy. I'm immediately suspending my efforts to try and to bring this inventory into our reach at closer to current market levels.
This thread is cancelled.
We'll just have to make due with the current supply levels from BBCE.
If anyone wants to work off-line to find a way to get this other inventory flowing more regularly into the market feel free to PM me and
we can try to come up with an alternate strategy. >>
Smart move!
Sorry but way too much cloak and dagger stuff going on.
<< <i>
<< <i>
We'll just have to make due with the current supply levels from BBCE.
>>
You make it sound like LF will only deal with you?
To be fair, I checked out the Larry Fritsch winter catalog and they have the 1979 Rack box listed at $1075. That breaks down to $44.79/pack. So the price you were estimating based on this, while high, matches what they have advertised.
70ToppsFanatic, you seem rather new to these boards and I think you need to realize that the majority of people here are out to help each other ... and many have seen it all before ... so if something doesn't seem right they'll speak up ... and eventually things get fixed.
I think trying to bring the LF supply to this board is a great idea. I've communicated with them in the past and they've always been professional, though I've never been able to pry a rack box out of their hands. But they might be more interested in wheeling and dealing with these boards as it would afford them much more $$$. I say someone with more experience at these rips take the reigns, contact LF, and if they are open to it, start a new thread and wipe the slate clean. >>
Paul, I never said any such thing.
And as you are confirming now everything was on the up and up. Since arriving I thought it was clear that I was 100% about trying to help each other out and add to the community. Please PM me if you feel I have done anything that is inconsistent with that.
As for LF, they tend to deal with everyone on this material the same way....kinda like OPEC. They have always been a sell at "top dollar" or dont sell kind of company.
And your comment about "prying loose" is dead on with regard to this inventory. They are always professional, but with these items they can be downright miserly even when someone is willing to pay their inflated full list price. Perhaps they just don't want to put too much into the market for fear of killing the prices, but when one can get a 1973 Topps Wax Box (series 4) on Ebay via Rick Probstein for $1800 or the one that LF consigned to collectauctions.com last fall for $1825 it seems a bit contrived/greedy that when someone comes to LF looking for one from their catalog they won't budge from $1975, if the deem you worthy enough to sell it to at all.
As part of what I was trying to accomplish here I had planted a seed with them regarding a potential 5-figure transaction to see if that could gain any leverage onto our side. It was early days, but so far it was more promising than any attempts I have made in the past, or any that I am aware of from others who I spoke with about their dealings with LF (that seed is still planted but will likely wither now). My concern was that by trying to get them to operate in a BBCE-like style it would be too much too fast. It could also hand back all leverage to them (e.g. they could push back with the excuse of having to do more work breaking this up individually justifies their higher price). Better to get a simple transaction going with a difficult seller first and then try to grow it than to swing for the fences in the first at bat and strike out. At least that seemed to me like the path most likely to get the ball rolling.
You and I are on much the same wavelength in terms of whetting their appetite a bit with a large transaction. The only difference I see is that my approach was stepwise and incremental versus the all-in-1 step that I believe will be much harder with them. The only people I wanted to keep in the dark were the ones at LF, so as not to scare them off (e.g. by seeing their name in print in a thread here) or trigger their historical OPEC minister-like behavior. I openly solicited anyone who had concerns to PM me and gave them the full scoop...you yourself did this. Am I saying anything here that is inconsistent with what I told you in the PM?
They have a history of being difficult on these items. My opinion is that it will be easier to gradually indoctrinate LF into a formal relationship here once they start getting comfortable with the benefit of seeing some bigger $$$ roll in for these items in simpler transactions. They are just not that fast moving an organization based on both my personal experience, and that of many others here including yourself it seems. If that means the first few transactions need to have an intermediate stop, what's the big deal if it is someone who is willing to do it that has a spotless record, who is willing to have other forum members audit the activities as they are conducted, etc.?
Perhaps I could have figured out a better way to communicate this, but to allow some poorly-motivated people to jump well beyond the line of being cautious/protective
so that they could destroy a genuine effort to make our little group a better place is unfortunate.
In any event, I welcome a clean slate approach to trying to bring the LF inventory on-line. I still think they need to be eased into it versus going straight in. IF anyone thinks they have a better way I'd love to hear it. It would be nice to have an easy path forward, but there's a recurring pattern here from LF which seems to indicate that this isnt the case.
Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>Perhaps I could have figured out a better way to communicate this, but to allow some poorly-motivated people to jump well beyond the line of being cautious/protective
so that they could destroy a genuine effort to make our little group a better place is unfortunate. >>
You are self-serving and FOS. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, who has expressed concern about this poorly-organized and lamely-communicated attempt to get members to send money to an established company that you supposedly have an "in" with, was done purely out of respect for the group and genuine caution. AND from prior experiences a few years ago (which I'd bet you recall - just under a different username).
So you're on here since Sept, and after a few months you appoint yourself official organizer of unopened rips, claiming to have a connection that in actuality is not a connection at all, but only a series of phone calls you made to Fritsch to pester them into a lower price. Then you start a group rip with the full knowledge that Fritsch has not yet indicated that a price will even be discounted for the rip.
And the price you quoted in the group rip thread is higher than the price listed on their website? Why is that? If you knew Fritsch was your "source", and you expected a group discount, why would you quote $105 group discount price when $89 is their price to buy one single pack at retail?
I tell you what - if you want to make our "little group a better place" as you say, why don't you actually have a group deal in place before you begin a group rip. And more importantly (and this is what really bugs me about you), when members here point out at least 5 very obvious red flags, stop whining about them being as "poorly motivated" or just trying to derail your thread.
If you expect members to trust you with $5K or more, you'd better have your ducks in a row. And if you don't, then you should have the ballls to politely back off without crying about the negative motivations of others. >>
Spot on!
wow, that was plenty of wasted time and negative energy spewed. 'whole lotta time people spent writing long heartfelt emails on a public forum.
good reading i guess, but now it just wasted 15 minutes of my time.
I Muggyback guarantee ya it will be a lot more fun and much better on the mind...