If the Sports Card Industry was the Stock Market - what shares would you buy?
Big80s
Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭
I'm always interested to see where people are sinking their money, or where they would sink their money if they had some extra funds. Me personally - I've been buying a lot of vintage golf and boxing over that past two years. I think the prices are low (compared to the more popular sports), but there still seems to be a decent market for them.
However, I have heard several people speculating lately that the big rookie cards from the 80's will eventually go back up in price, as Generation X grows a little older and has more expendable income. Any thoughts?
However, I have heard several people speculating lately that the big rookie cards from the 80's will eventually go back up in price, as Generation X grows a little older and has more expendable income. Any thoughts?
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Jeff
Jeff
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Pete rose 1963-1972
Any rookie HOF pre 1975
Jeff
<< <i>I'm thinking we might see a rise in Football, especially vintage football. Lets face it, Football has become America's favorite past time and I think it will start to make more of an impact. I think 76-87 football HOF RC's will rise in value, thats my investment. >>
IMO - both Football & Basketball cards (especially anything pre 1979) are very undervalued. I set up at card shows three or four times a year, and I've always been blown away at how well Basketball cards sell. My table is usually divided up with approximately 70% baseball cards, 20% football cards & 10% basketball cards. And even with that ratio - I sell almost as much basketball as I do baseball.
Jeff
<< <i>Just my 2 cents, Tickets. with the grading company's now grading them, the demand seems to be climbing. >>
Thanks for chiming in! Tickets are a great collectible. I especially enjoy autographed stubs.
Jeff
<< <i>Just my 2 cents, Tickets. with the grading company's now grading them, the demand seems to be climbing. >>
agree on the tickets. My wife had 2 stubs (not full tickets) from 1987 superbowl and sent in for grading. Received a 7 and 6. Posted the 7 on ebay and sat for 3 months with no offers, nothing. 3-4 days ago sold it for $210.00. very pleased
"If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi
every time there's a group rip, another angel gets its wings.
<< <i>vintage unopened product. nowhere to go but up.
every time there's a group rip, another angel gets its wings.
Agree!
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>vintage unopened product. nowhere to go but up.
every time there's a group rip, another angel gets its wings.
As long as it has the BBCE or PSA stamp of approval!
<< <i>vintage unopened product. nowhere to go but up.
every time there's a group rip, another angel gets its wings.
Keeping vintage unopened product around my house is a recipe for trouble (See PackGeek.com). I wish I had more willpower, though.
Jeff
<< <i>Keeping vintage unopened product around my house is a recipe for trouble (See PackGeek.com). I wish I had more willpower, though. >>
You and me both... I promised myself that I would get a couple of my 1977 Topps packs graded (recent group rip), and I found a legitimate reason to rip each one of them. Took a major hit on them too. That's okay, I was due to go bust on one of these group rips.
John Unitas
Joe Namath
Jim Brown
Bart Starr
Gayle Sayers
and any HOF rookies 1971 and earlier football stars.
I have even noticed PSA 9's of rookie HOF basball cards are becoming less available.
I do believe 1971 and earlier is the way to go.
There seems to be a tremendous amount of 1972', 73's etc. newly available.
<< <i>19th and early 20th century high grade non sports...the rarer the better! >>
This is a niche I know nothing about. Can you expand upon this a bit? I know there are a lot of trading cards that fall within the "non sports" category.
Jeff
I would short the heck out of bryce harper shares
Speculative cash in brett anderson specialty cards - autos, jersey, etc.
Short: High Grade RCs of Musial, Mays, Aaron, Gary Carter
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>would be a risk taker and whatever prospects are the most talked about before the season buy them >>
If you do your research you can do very well with this.
If your not now you should be gearing up for 2012 spring time. There will be many players that were rookies in 2011 that should be shining brightly by June. Buy them now, when they are cheap and not as recongnized.
Especially low #d Auto's, Jersey's, and 1/1's. Anything BGS 9.5, and of course PSA 10's. The second year of Rookies is the year to make some dough on them. Just have to gamble right.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>IMO - both Football & Basketball cards (especially anything pre 1979) are very undervalued. I set up at card shows three or four times a year, and I've always been blown away at how well Basketball cards sell. My table is usually divided up with approximately 70% baseball cards, 20% football cards & 10% basketball cards. And even with that ratio - I sell almost as much basketball as I do baseball. >>
I have posted similar comments in past posts like this about basketball cards from the 1970s being very undervalued. When you consider the value of the 1986 Fleer basketball set and many of the newer cards as well, it certainly can't be a sport popularity issue. If you think about it, those 1970s sets are the equivalent of the 1950s baseball and football sets in the evolution of basketball cards.
Out of curiosity, I recently noted the number of raw 1974 Topps Bill Walton rookies that were available on ebay and also how many had been graded by PSA. I then did the same with the 1974 Topps Dave Winfield card (I figured I would compare the top rookie in each set that year). In both cases, there were about 7 Winfields for every 1 Walton. If that ratio holds roughly across the board, then for 1974 Topps basketball, there is only about 15% of the amount of 1974 Topps baseball cards out there. There were also major centering issues with the fronts and backs of the 1974 basketball cards, so high grades are even tougher.
Jeff
That all being said. Cards I would invest in are cassius xclay 1965 lampo rookie and 1983-1985 basketball Star rookies.
I think as long as people have sports heroes, they will want mementos of them and connections to them. One of the most traditional and relatively inexpensive way for most people to do that is through sportscards - they, and their buyers, will still be around in 30 years.
It wont die off.
Short Term - Tiger Woods - yes folks it is time to buy, he is as historical lows value wise
Long Term - Walter Hagen, Bobby Jones, Harry Vardon - Their cards overall are dirt cheap compared to their counterparts from the same era baseball wise.
As for other sports...I think vintage football has a LOT of room to grow, as do the early bowman baseball issues.
Collector of Vintage Golf cards! Let me know what you might have.
<< <i>With all due respect eagles33, couldn't disagree with you more, and not just because I've got lots of dough in cardboard
I think as long as people have sports heroes, they will want mementos of them and connections to them. One of the most traditional and relatively inexpensive way for most people to do that is through sportscards - they, and their buyers, will still be around in 30 years. >>
No doubt there will always be some sort of mkt for sports cards... I just think that the mkt will be much smaller as the collectors that got hooked during the junk era leave the mkt. I also don't practice what I preach since I check eBay just about every day for potential purchases. I even make terrible choices like buy Tom Brady and Eli manning chrome rookies days AFTER they win conference championships. Obviously the cards will be cheaper 3 months from now... But for some reason I couldn't resist... And bought at about 52 week highs.. Luckinly I collect for the fun of it and not to turn a profit.
<< <i>
<< <i>IMO - both Football & Basketball cards (especially anything pre 1979) are very undervalued. I set up at card shows three or four times a year, and I've always been blown away at how well Basketball cards sell. My table is usually divided up with approximately 70% baseball cards, 20% football cards & 10% basketball cards. And even with that ratio - I sell almost as much basketball as I do baseball. >>
I have posted similar comments in past posts like this about basketball cards from the 1970s being very undervalued. When you consider the value of the 1986 Fleer basketball set and many of the newer cards as well, it certainly can't be a sport popularity issue. If you think about it, those 1970s sets are the equivalent of the 1950s baseball and football sets in the evolution of basketball cards.
Out of curiosity, I recently noted the number of raw 1974 Topps Bill Walton rookies that were available on ebay and also how many had been graded by PSA. I then did the same with the 1974 Topps Dave Winfield card (I figured I would compare the top rookie in each set that year). In both cases, there were about 7 Winfields for every 1 Walton. If that ratio holds roughly across the board, then for 1974 Topps basketball, there is only about 15% of the amount of 1974 Topps baseball cards out there. There were also major centering issues with the fronts and backs of the 1974 basketball cards, so high grades are even tougher. >>
The '86 Fleer set is carried by the major rookies, specifically Jordan. If you eliminate them from this set it's nothing more than a curiosity. The basketball stars from the 1970's-- including Maravich-- don't have anywhere near the iconic appeal of Jordan, which is why these sets have, and will continue to, languish in the $200-$700 range in NM condition. I agree wholeheartedly on some of the points you've made here, particularly those relating to scarcity, but this doesn't change the fact that 1970's basketball sets lack genuine star power; which, in this case, I take to mean players who's celebrity transcended the sport that they played.
Once they make the Hall, they only have one way to go. UP UP UP
Dave
Dave
<< <i>The '86 Fleer set is carried by the major rookies, specifically Jordan. If you eliminate them from this set it's nothing more than a curiosity. The basketball stars from the 1970's-- including Maravich-- don't have anywhere near the iconic appeal of Jordan, which is why these sets have, and will continue to, languish in the $200-$700 range in NM condition. I agree wholeheartedly on some of the points you've made here, particularly those relating to scarcity, but this doesn't change the fact that 1970's basketball sets lack genuine star power; which, in this case, I take to mean players who's celebrity transcended the sport that they played. >>
I believe you missed some of my points. Of course nothing is going to compare directly to the 1986 Fleer set due to the Jordan rookie. My point was that basketball cards from 1986 to present do not lag behind their baseball or football counterparts in value. Yet the 1970s basketball cards cards do. And even direct comparisons of 1970s to newer basketball cards show a disparity. For example, there are easily 20x as many say 1988 Fleer Scottie Pippen or Dennis Rodman rookies out there in PSA 9 or better condition than there are say 1974 Topps Bill Walton or 1975 Moses Malone rookies in PSA 8 or better condition. Yet all of these cards currently sell for roughly the same amount. This should change at some point. Again, due to the scarcity and terrible quality control, I feel there is a lot of investment potential in the nicer 1970s Topps basketball rookies.
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
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<< <i>1986-87 Fleer MJ PSA 10. Easy day. Meatloaf >>
Have to agree here, I'd stick with inconic cards that every collector would love to own (86 Jordan, 52 Mantle, 33 Goudey Ruth, etc). The demand for these cards will always be high and the supply is limited. I'd also say autographs of deceased sports icons for the same reasons.
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basically he will be a failed dot com....
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-In the middle 90's, you could buy 52 Topps wax packs for $1,500 or $2,000. They've basically tripled since then. 61/62 Fleer basketball, you use to be able to buy for $500 a pack. Now, they are $1,000, $1,200.
And some have gone crazy...i.e. 1976 topps vending or something. Use to be $175. Anyone ever save any Mark Murphy ads from SCD? The 70's wax was pretty low as recently as 1996.
-50's and 60's football. Seems cheap when you consider its america's game +, the low print run vs baseball (10-20%?).
Boxing, vintage golf. It might catch on like wrestling cards have.
-1900 to 1930's hof'ers that aren't goudey, cracker jacks, diamond stars, etc. I think the lesser sets are going to catch up, some may explode (i.e. baltimore news ruth). I think other iconic cards will trail the wagner.
If a t206 wagner sells for $3 million. and a low grade one goes for $400,000. Then X iconic Eddie Plank is going to sell for $250,000.
Remember the cards that were publicized in the 80's, in those how to collect sports card books? Like the 33 Lajoie, 15 Cracker Jack Jackson, etc? The big winners seem to have been the cards that weren't publicized.
Baltimore news ruth, t210 Jackson, etc. They've turned out to be the cards with real rarity and appeal.
Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Christy Mathewson
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Basically, look for iconic cards with low pops.
Lou Gehrig Master Set
Non-Registry Collection
Game Used Cards Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>The '86 Fleer set is carried by the major rookies, specifically Jordan. If you eliminate them from this set it's nothing more than a curiosity. The basketball stars from the 1970's-- including Maravich-- don't have anywhere near the iconic appeal of Jordan, which is why these sets have, and will continue to, languish in the $200-$700 range in NM condition. I agree wholeheartedly on some of the points you've made here, particularly those relating to scarcity, but this doesn't change the fact that 1970's basketball sets lack genuine star power; which, in this case, I take to mean players who's celebrity transcended the sport that they played. >>
I believe you missed some of my points. Of course nothing is going to compare directly to the 1986 Fleer set due to the Jordan rookie. My point was that basketball cards from 1986 to present do not lag behind their baseball or football counterparts in value. Yet the 1970s basketball cards cards do. And even direct comparisons of 1970s to newer basketball cards show a disparity. For example, there are easily 20x as many say 1988 Fleer Scottie Pippen or Dennis Rodman rookies out there in PSA 9 or better condition than there are say 1974 Topps Bill Walton or 1975 Moses Malone rookies in PSA 8 or better condition. Yet all of these cards currently sell for roughly the same amount. This should change at some point. Again, due to the scarcity and terrible quality control, I feel there is a lot of investment potential in the nicer 1970s Topps basketball rookies. >>
That's because modern day basketball players have the same amount (or more) of social exposure outside of sports as MLB and NFL players. However, this wasn't true in the 1970's, and as a result virtually none of the stars from the 1970's resonate with card collectors. What we tend to forget is that if a set is going to take off in value it's because people find themselves attracted to the star players in the set- particularly to the rookies. And I can't see any plausible scenario in which Americans suddenly find themselves enamored with Bill Walton, Clyde Frazier, Connie Hawkins, etc. etc. These sets sell for so little because (for the most part) nobody cares about the players represented in these sets, and it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon.
As a case in point, look at the discussions on 1950's football cards. For as long as I can remember card collectors have been predicting a huge uptick in the values of these cards. "It's America's game", they say. Or "The print runs were so low". And yet to date, despite the fact that the NFL has never been more popular, the values for vintage football continue to languish behind the values of equivalent MLB cards. Why? Because, really, nobody cares about the players in these sets, save a couple of notable exceptions. In the final analysis it's player popularity that drives value. If the players aren't popular then the sets remain cheap, which is why '70's basketball continues to sell for so little.
All that being said, I still feel that putting your money in say a 1971 Topps Rick Barry(with a pop. of only 22 in PSA 9 or better) or a 1974 Topps Bill Walton(with a pop. of only 59 in PSA 9 or better) are good investments. I can't see those populations rising much at this point. And any uptick in the market in this area should result in big gains in these types of low population, HOF rookie cards.
As far as the investment aspect goes.
buy - 77-83 unopened wax. packs are still affordable enough for people to rip trying to get a gem. Biggio, Maddux, Helton rc gems
sell - b harper, tebow, any other ultra hyped rookie
Collecting:
post world war II HOF rookie
76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
To contrast that, I would sell every Willie Mays, Chuck Bednarik and Gordie Howe signed card I had right now and buy them back in 15 years when people realize there's a bazillion of them out there and the prices are extremely inflated.
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<< <i>ok , Tebow Stock will have an impressive IPO and will go over $100 a share...but within 3 years will be worth less
$1.00 per share...
basically he will be a failed dot com.... >>
Tebow is overpriced right now, the time to get him was the lull when Kyle Orton was starting. I picked up a handful of Five Star Rookies for $120 or so. The time to sell them WAS when the Bronocs were beating teams and just after the Steelers win. This is an interesting one for next season. He locked in the starting job for 2012 beating the Steelers. He's already well known as "Tebowing" and "Tebow Time" have caught on in the general public. If the NFL, his sponsors or the church market him right, he'll blow up big time next season SHOULD they keep winning. There is a video on YouTube showing the Bronocs locker room after the victory of the Steelers. This team will be going into training camp with a lot of confidence as the defending AFC West champs.
As far as long term, I'd argue that a Heisman trophy winner has long term value. I'd also like to point out current sales of Bo Jackson autographs and cards. I dont believe he's reached Bo Jackson status but he just needs a couple years of success to do it as the media groundwork is already laid out.
<< <i>
<< <i>ok , Tebow Stock will have an impressive IPO and will go over $100 a share...but within 3 years will be worth less
$1.00 per share...
basically he will be a failed dot com.... >>
Tebow is overpriced right now, the time to get him was the lull when Kyle Orton was starting. I picked up a handful of Five Star Rookies for $120 or so. The time to sell them WAS when the Bronocs were beating teams and just after the Steelers win. This is an interesting one for next season. He locked in the starting job for 2012 beating the Steelers. He's already well known as "Tebowing" and "Tebow Time" have caught on in the general public. If the NFL, his sponsors or the church market him right, he'll blow up big time next season SHOULD they keep winning. There is a video on YouTube showing the Bronocs locker room after the victory of the Steelers. This team will be going into training camp with a lot of confidence as the defending AFC West champs.
As far as long term, I'd argue that a Heisman trophy winner has long term value. I'd also like to point out current sales of Bo Jackson autographs and cards. I dont believe he's reached Bo Jackson status but he just needs a couple years of success to do it as the media groundwork is already laid out. >>
Staying on modern football for a moment. Cam Newton. After the best RC year by a quarterback this past season, If he can follow it up again, watch for some more fireworks. His cards are hotter than Tebow's. Plus he should get ROY
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"