<< <i>Why many collectors will spend thousands on grading fees and and even more thousands on coins from large auction houses, but if I as a collector, have nice coins for sale any price near Grey shteet is a tough sale and $1 or $2 more will instantly crush the deal no matter the quality of the coin or the key date status. >>
This sort of problem is not as pervasive in the early copper world. Come over to the chocolate side. >>
I would be happy to. I am looking for an 1809 Large cent with nice original chocolate color and no big gouges. Do you think I will ever find one grading around F?
<< <i>3. Why there is such a bias against modern coins. So what if they are new, and there are a lot of them? Are you collecting because you love the hobby, or because you want something that not everyone else has? 90% of my collection- or likely more- is modern, and I'm proud of it. (I define modern as post-silver era). I have more coins from 2002 than any other year. >>
For most collectors (especially older ones) it's an emotional reaction.
The switch from silver to clad was simply traumatic to the hobby and collectively we still have post-traumatic stress syndrome.
<< <i>5. Why some people include errors in their base set. The way I view it, is that errors (Like for example the 3-legged buffalo) are not part of the base set, but a nice added bonus to it. If, and it's a big if, I ever complete my buffalo nickel set, it won't have a 3-legged in it, and I'll still view it as complete. Many others wouldn't. I honestly don't see that happening anytime in the next decade, if ever, so it's just an example, but I think it defines my point. >>
I like varieties a great deal but I too don't understand why errors are collected with regular issues.
Errors are immensely instructive about the minting process and the behavior of metals under varying conditions. I should study them in more detail but do try to understand each one I see.
<< <i>Do dealers make most of their money from widows walking in with their dead husband's collections? >>
Unfortunately this is a large source of much of the income.
In dealers' defense though there are a few mitigating factors. Sometimes they have to go through a lot of junk looking for something that has substantial value. They deserve some reward for this and in cases where a single valuable coin is in a veritable mountain of junk I'd say they deserve the entire value of the coin for their ability to recognize it. Secondly not all dealers do this. Many try to make fair offers even when they leave themselves plenty of "cushion" to make a profit. Thirdly many will tell you that if they make on offer based on metal value it will usually be accepted. If you spot better coins and make an offer based on numismatic value they'll call you a crook and storm out.
Like aotomotive repair shops coin dealers tend to size up the customer quite a bit.
Just make sure your widow or executor knows to stay away from coin shops except to buy.
I try to learn something new as often as I can and to me at least is as satisfying as a really cool newp. I'll never know it all, even if I lived to a 1000, but it's fun trying, plus it keeps me outa the bars, well sometimes
<< <i>Is there anything that you truly do not understand about how this hobby/business works? If so, what is it?
And don't be embarrassed to respond. Yes, most of us have it all figured out by now, but not all of us. >>
Probably the day i think i am smart enough to have it all figured out will be the day that i quit collecting coins... Which no doubt will never be... Great topic though... I have been collecting coins since before i was a teen...As i made it to different levels in that collecting one thing for certain was that i have always enjoyed the different colors on coins... I can remember was 1976 an easy date for me to remember because of the bicentennial...I purchased an 1893 barber dime that was just gorgeous of all places from a flea market in Trenton NJ. while traveling down there for a Modified Car Race at the speedway...It was mixed in with a bunch of other dimes mostly mercs which i purchased the whole batch of 20 coins for either $10.00 or $15.00... I remember the vendor counting to himself each coin as 10cents to finally come up with his price to me...Well that one barber was the one coin that i looked at the most... I ended up selling that coin along with a bunch of others that helped me get my first business off the ground only a year later and the dealer immediately went to that coin and set that one aside in his keeper pile... With that said, and I am starting to get side tracked, it was very obvious even back then the color on that coin made it stand out... Now jump ahead some 36 years and how things have changed with numismatics in general but one thing is constant those beautifully colored(toned) coins are still sort after and with even more vigor then ever... So now finally getting to my point... We have all sorts of price guides and grey sheets and whatever and because of popularity and rareness and demand those prices are set... I can not understand why there isn`t currently some sort of a standard pricing guide and or grading for toned coins... We have all sorts of auction results showing that any nicely toned classic coin brings a premium sometimes as high as 20-plus times the price guides of non toned pieces... We have different pricing on star, cameo, PL or DMPL coins...And on copper BN, Red Bn, and Red... So i think that is something that is very much needed to establish consistent grading and or pricing for toning... I remember when the Sonnier collection of Morgan dollars was listed on Legends web site for sale and in the description of each coin was their personal assessment of toning as an example "we grade the colors MS 67.9" etc. I thought when i saw that what a great idea if done as a standard professionally...Actually i had wondered long before that why it hadn`t been done as of yet... I know it wouldn`t be easy but really if you think about it no more difficult than pricing for a specific grade which accounts for wear, dings, strike and luster... The previous history is there from years of auctions and dealers sales showing what types of toning be it on the obverse, reverse, percentage of the coin is toned, the clarity of the toning and over all beauty or eye appeal of the toning is bringing the prices that they bring.... Just my thoughts on something I don`t understand...
<< <i>I don't understand the US Mint Coin Crazes. There's an initial BIG mark-up, and then within a year (after demand settles) prices drop to at/below Mint cost. The flippers make the money, while the collectors lose(?) money??? This doesn't make ANY sense from the standpoint of those that collect these coins! >>
I have been pondering these same questions the last few months.
Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.
<< <i>Is there anything that you truly do not understand about how this hobby/business works? If so, what is it?
And don't be embarrassed to respond. Yes, most of us have it all figured out by now, but not all of us. >>
Probably the day i think i am smart enough to have it all figured out will be the day that i quit collecting coins... Which no doubt will never be... Great topic though... I have been collecting coins since before i was a teen...As i made it to different levels in that collecting one thing for certain was that i have always enjoyed the different colors on coins... I can remember was 1976 an easy date for me to remember because of the bicentennial...I purchased an 1893 barber dime that was just gorgeous of all places from a flea market in Trenton NJ. while traveling down there for a Modified Car Race at the speedway...It was mixed in with a bunch of other dimes mostly mercs which i purchased the whole batch of 20 coins for either $10.00 or $15.00... I remember the vendor counting to himself each coin as 10cents to finally come up with his price to me...Well that one barber was the one coin that i looked at the most... I ended up selling that coin along with a bunch of others that helped me get my first business off the ground only a year later and the dealer immediately went to that coin and set that one aside in his keeper pile... With that said, and I am starting to get side tracked, it was very obvious even back then the color on that coin made it stand out... Now jump ahead some 36 years and how things have changed with numismatics in general but one thing is constant those beautifully colored(toned) coins are still sort after and with even more vigor then ever... So now finally getting to my point... We have all sorts of price guides and grey sheets and whatever and because of popularity and rareness and demand those prices are set... I can not understand why there isn`t currently some sort of a standard pricing guide for toned coins... We have all sorts of auction results showing that any nicely toned classic coin brings a premium sometimes as high as 20-plus times the price guides of non toned pieces... We have different pricing on star, cameo, PL or DMPL coins...And on copper BN, Red Bn, and Red... So i think that is something that is very much needed to establish consistent pricing for... I know it wouldn`t be easy but really if you think about it no more difficult than pricing for a specific grade which accounts for wear, dings, strike and luster... The previous history is there from years of auctions and dealers sales showing what types of toning be it on the obverse, reverse, percentage of the coin is toned, the clarity of the toning and over all beauty or eye appeal of the toning is bringing the prices that they bring.... Just my thoughts on something I don`t understand...
AB >>
Eye appeal which can include toning does have a factor in the grading of a coin, It's one of the elements considered when being graded, at least that is what I have been told. I don't see a reason to have a pricing guide for it. The pricing of a nicely graded toned coin is evident when you go to buy the coin. Non Toned coins, or weakly toned coins and dipped coins don't command the same price and sell for less. That is all the grading for a toned coin I need. I think your getting too much into opinion when your start going down that road. I do see something similar to what your talking about on the David Lawrence website. They sort of grade the eye appeal.
Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.
<< <i>I don't understand the US Mint Coin Crazes. There's an initial BIG mark-up, and then within a year (after demand settles) prices drop to at/below Mint cost. >>
I have been pondering these same questions the last few months. >>
Hasn't it been that way for decades now? You can buy as many 70s, 80s, etc proof sets that you want right now for $5 or $6ea all day long. Those sets have been worthless now for the five years I've been in the hobby, but were they actually valuable previously?
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Why many collectors will spend thousands on grading fees and and even more thousands on coins from large auction houses, but if I as a collector, have nice coins for sale any price near Grey shteet is a tough sale and $1 or $2 more will instantly crush the deal no matter the quality of the coin or the key date status. >>
This sort of problem is not as pervasive in the early copper world. Come over to the chocolate side.
I would be happy to. I am looking for an 1809 Large cent with nice original chocolate color and no big gouges. Do you think I will ever find one grading around F?
<< <i>3. Why there is such a bias against modern coins. So what if they are new, and there are a lot of them? Are you collecting because you love the hobby, or because you want something that not everyone else has? 90% of my collection- or likely more- is modern, and I'm proud of it. (I define modern as post-silver era). I have more coins from 2002 than any other year. >>
For most collectors (especially older ones) it's an emotional reaction.
The switch from silver to clad was simply traumatic to the hobby and collectively we still have post-traumatic stress syndrome.
<< <i>5. Why some people include errors in their base set. The way I view it, is that errors (Like for example the 3-legged buffalo) are not part of the base set, but a nice added bonus to it. If, and it's a big if, I ever complete my buffalo nickel set, it won't have a 3-legged in it, and I'll still view it as complete. Many others wouldn't. I honestly don't see that happening anytime in the next decade, if ever, so it's just an example, but I think it defines my point. >>
I like varieties a great deal but I too don't understand why errors are collected with regular issues.
Errors are immensely instructive about the minting process and the behavior of metals under varying
conditions. I should study them in more detail but do try to understand each one I see.
<< <i>Do dealers make most of their money from widows walking in with their dead husband's collections? >>
Unfortunately this is a large source of much of the income.
In dealers' defense though there are a few mitigating factors. Sometimes they have to go through
a lot of junk looking for something that has substantial value. They deserve some reward for this and
in cases where a single valuable coin is in a veritable mountain of junk I'd say they deserve the entire
value of the coin for their ability to recognize it. Secondly not all dealers do this. Many try to make fair
offers even when they leave themselves plenty of "cushion" to make a profit. Thirdly many will tell you
that if they make on offer based on metal value it will usually be accepted. If you spot better coins and
make an offer based on numismatic value they'll call you a crook and storm out.
Like aotomotive repair shops coin dealers tend to size up the customer quite a bit.
Just make sure your widow or executor knows to stay away from coin shops except to buy.
and to me at least is as satisfying as a really
cool newp. I'll never know it all, even if I lived
to a 1000, but it's fun trying, plus it keeps me
outa the bars, well sometimes
Steve
an XF 45 holder.
Mark
Discover all unpredictable errors before they occur.
<< <i>Is there anything that you truly do not understand about how this hobby/business works? If so, what is it?
And don't be embarrassed to respond. Yes, most of us have it all figured out by now, but not all of us. >>
Probably the day i think i am smart enough to have it all figured out will be the day that i quit collecting coins... Which no doubt will never be... Great topic though...
I have been collecting coins since before i was a teen...As i made it to different levels in that collecting one thing for certain was that i have always enjoyed the different colors on coins... I can remember was 1976 an easy date for me to remember because of the bicentennial...I purchased an 1893 barber dime that was just gorgeous of all places from a flea market in Trenton NJ. while traveling down there for a Modified Car Race at the speedway...It was mixed in with a bunch of other dimes mostly mercs which i purchased the whole batch of 20 coins for either $10.00 or $15.00... I remember the vendor counting to himself each coin as 10cents to finally come up with his price to me...Well that one barber was the one coin that i looked at the most...
I ended up selling that coin along with a bunch of others that helped me get my first business off the ground only a year later and the dealer immediately went to that coin and set that one aside in his keeper pile... With that said, and I am starting to get side tracked, it was very obvious even back then the color on that coin made it stand out...
Now jump ahead some 36 years and how things have changed with numismatics in general but one thing is constant those beautifully colored(toned) coins are still sort after and with even more vigor then ever...
So now finally getting to my point...
I know it wouldn`t be easy but really if you think about it no more difficult than pricing for a specific grade which accounts for wear, dings, strike and luster...
The previous history is there from years of auctions and dealers sales showing what types of toning be it on the obverse, reverse, percentage of the coin is toned, the clarity of the toning and over all beauty or eye appeal of the toning is bringing the prices that they bring....
Just my thoughts on something I don`t understand...
AB
<< <i>I don't understand the US Mint Coin Crazes. There's an initial BIG mark-up, and then within a year (after demand settles) prices drop to at/below Mint cost.
The flippers make the money, while the collectors lose(?) money??? This doesn't make ANY sense from the standpoint of those that collect these coins! >>
I have been pondering these same questions the last few months.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is there anything that you truly do not understand about how this hobby/business works? If so, what is it?
And don't be embarrassed to respond. Yes, most of us have it all figured out by now, but not all of us. >>
Probably the day i think i am smart enough to have it all figured out will be the day that i quit collecting coins... Which no doubt will never be... Great topic though...
I have been collecting coins since before i was a teen...As i made it to different levels in that collecting one thing for certain was that i have always enjoyed the different colors on coins... I can remember was 1976 an easy date for me to remember because of the bicentennial...I purchased an 1893 barber dime that was just gorgeous of all places from a flea market in Trenton NJ. while traveling down there for a Modified Car Race at the speedway...It was mixed in with a bunch of other dimes mostly mercs which i purchased the whole batch of 20 coins for either $10.00 or $15.00... I remember the vendor counting to himself each coin as 10cents to finally come up with his price to me...Well that one barber was the one coin that i looked at the most...
I ended up selling that coin along with a bunch of others that helped me get my first business off the ground only a year later and the dealer immediately went to that coin and set that one aside in his keeper pile... With that said, and I am starting to get side tracked, it was very obvious even back then the color on that coin made it stand out...
Now jump ahead some 36 years and how things have changed with numismatics in general but one thing is constant those beautifully colored(toned) coins are still sort after and with even more vigor then ever...
So now finally getting to my point...
I know it wouldn`t be easy but really if you think about it no more difficult than pricing for a specific grade which accounts for wear, dings, strike and luster...
The previous history is there from years of auctions and dealers sales showing what types of toning be it on the obverse, reverse, percentage of the coin is toned, the clarity of the toning and over all beauty or eye appeal of the toning is bringing the prices that they bring....
Just my thoughts on something I don`t understand...
AB
Eye appeal which can include toning does have a factor in the grading of a coin, It's one of the elements considered when being graded, at least that is what I have been told. I don't see a reason to have a pricing guide for it. The pricing of a nicely graded toned coin is evident when you go to buy the coin. Non Toned coins, or weakly toned coins and dipped coins don't command the same price and sell for less. That is all the grading for a toned coin I need. I think your getting too much into opinion when your start going down that road. I do see something similar to what your talking about on the David Lawrence website. They sort of grade the eye appeal.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't understand the US Mint Coin Crazes. There's an initial BIG mark-up, and then within a year (after demand settles) prices drop to at/below Mint cost.
>>
I have been pondering these same questions the last few months. >>
Hasn't it been that way for decades now? You can buy as many 70s, 80s, etc proof sets that you want right now for $5 or $6ea all day long. Those sets have been worthless now for the five years I've been in the hobby, but were they actually valuable previously?