<< <i>I wonder what the typical B & M coin shop dealer would offer for this coin. >>
10% back of bid >>
.....if you're lucky and he's in a generous mood. >>
They always seem to be good at playin dumb when they're buying, but in all fairness the local market here is probly not the best place to get top dollar.
<< <i>And while the hobby is primarily about the coin that doesn't necessarily mean it's exclusively about the coin.
That is very true and very well-stated. >>
But with the same logic, the hobby is not exclusively about the beaned plastic either which this thread basically is.
$74 for a regular MS64....essentially >4X multiple.
I can understand investors early to the scene trying to squirrel away all the gold rattlers they can. Even if the long term logic doesn't make sense, we all know how short term coin demand/promotions work. It doesn't have to make sense. It only has to work long enough for the early participants to make money. I can also understand doilies and black slabs which exist in limited #'s (ie they aren't making any more). But we are still making gold bean porridge. How many rattlers are still out there in the possession of investors who got buried in common gem stuff back in the late 80's? Probably a lot more than we'd like to think (morgans, walkers, buffs, mercs, lincolns, 3c nickels, etc.). Let's assume 1 MILL coins were graded by the time the last rattler was made. Then assume 1% of all rattlers still survive - 10,000 coins. How many of those could be gold bean candidates? What would that do to the existing supply?
It's likely that a lot of the gold bean rattlers were cracked long before CAC was a gleam in JA's eye. As they say about the OGHs, most that could upgrade have already been upgraded. Are there still some strongly held rattlers out there? Probably, but no way to know how many.
Personally making the holder invisible and just looking at the coin itself it doesn`t do very much for me other then being a very nice common date Morgan that looks in mint gem condition but definitely not flawless... I have to agree 100% with TomB that being in the rattler holder and a gold bean is the whole story about that coin...That in itself makes that a VERY cool find if one is looking for cool...
Speaking of cool... At Fun one of my highlights of the entire show was i had the privilege of viewing an entire box, i believe 20 or so, of VERY wonderful rattler holder-ed coins in a private collection... Didn`t think to ask if any had been to CAC but i do not recall any beans at all on them and many of the coins were absolutely stunning...
<< <i>I think those who are concentrating on how logical it is to buy a possibly undergraded by one or two points MS64 for MS66+/- money are missing the mark with this coin and its niche. The gold bean might be silly to some, but the percentage of coins that earn such beans in their current holders is quite small and we as collectors or dealers all like to own things that are cool, that are tough to find or that are different. This coin falls into that niche with its older holder and gold bean. Therefore, we are not writing about a cost-benefit analysis for acquisition vs. possible regrade, but are writing about buying something cool and different even if what makes it so is not the coin itself. >>
But what's "cool" about a coin that is guaranteed to be at least MS65.4 and pay a MS66.0 price for it? Let's not forget that our hobby is primarily about the coin in the holder. What happens to CAC beans if CAC goes out of business? Hallmark holders are pretty scarce as well and the grading is tighter than today's standards, are they worth anything today? What JA needs to do is come up with a platinum bean to identify 2 pt upgrades. That would really be worth the $300. But in this case the coin would probably bid up to $500...lol. The underlying "asset" in the coin market is the value of the standalone coin. Sometime down the road, this coin will once again be asked to perform to that standard. Just hope you aren't the current owner when that time comes. We first brought this topic up in 2003-2006 as all the sloppily graded coins were hitting the market and that judgement day would eventually came. It came alright, in the guise of stickers. Fwiw a gold bean in a current holder is probably far rarer than a rattler or ogh. Just my 2 cents. >>
FYI there is a platinum bean. And while the hobby is primarily about the coin that doesn't necessarily mean it's exclusively about the coin. >>
Op was searching ebay for morgans or gold beans??? I can guess the answer and that says a lot eh?
Neither - it was like a tuna caught in the net while dragging the bottom for pollock.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Oops - just got a PM from someone that was potentially offended.......
Neither - it was like a tuna caught in the net while dragging the bottom for haddock.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Someone must be collecting old rattler holders with gold CAC stickers. From what I can see this 1881-S won't make it higher than a 65 due to the ticks on the obverse devices and in the reverse field.
Well, I guess if there really isn't a platinum sticker, this could be a 67 or 68!!!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
I can't find a better example of "sticker stupidity" at its finest. This is why you see stupid high BINs on widget coins; people see stuff like this and think they can cash in too. With that return policy the buyer will take it to his local coin guru to see if/how much they think it will upgrade- and then return it once they find out... (Looking at the marks on the obverse I'd say 65, shot 66, but in either case, nowhere worth the stupid money it's bringing)
Hey, people go to Vegas, lose lots of money and have nothing to show for it.
At least here, you got something.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
The Gold Bean holders are just being sought after by several serious collectors. Are they present in this bidding? I do not know. Are they serious? Yes. At the Long Beach show last summer, I was privy to a discussion where several dealers (one of whom has posted on this thread already), mentioned at LEAST two 'major' players who are collecting ANYTHING with a Gold Bean. No, I don't know why. The prices they were willing to pay were in the vicinity of 2x sheet for ANY coin with a gold bean, regardless of date or denomination. They were just accumulating Gold Beans, which are certainly not common in the market. As with Beanie Babies, baseball cards, or Lladro . . . there will always be a market for anything perceived as "rare" (in quotes as I was taken to task on the meaning of that word many threads ago).
By the way, I was very happy when two of my Mercs in 2.0/2.1 NGC holders went 'goldie' 2 weeks ago!!!
Drunner (Doily Slut) >>
I second this. I know of at least one of the major players. He's trying to accumulate 500 of the gold stickers. He paid stupid money for one of TAMU15's coins at FUN.
<< <i>I second this. I know of at least one of the major players. He's trying to accumulate 500 of the gold stickers. He paid stupid money for one of TAMU15's coins at FUN.
-Paul >>
I got a call from our mutual gold-sticker friend today, because he knew I was getting a shipment of 40 coins back from CAC. He regularly calls me regarding my CAC submissions, to get first shot at gold stickers. A couple of these guys are serious about gold stickers, and are diligent about competing to make sure one doesn't slip through their hands.
Regarding this auction, the seller, oldnstupid, has bought several rattlers from me, two of which he's selling right now. Thankfully, he didn't buy that 1881-S from me. After seeing this auction result, I'd be kicking myself for a long time if I'd let that slip through without CACing it. I usually crack, not CAC, undergraded MS64 widgets, but I'll think twice about that now.
Hmm, this is a PCGS Regency slab 1897-S $1 now with a green sticker. I would not expect a gold sticker for this beautiful coin.
But I can't believe the 1881-S shown below is now priced the same as this silver dollar which has a delightful slab as a bonus.
I am NOT the collector that is putting together 500 of these gold stickered slabs. Don't get me wrong, I like these slabs, with the gold sticker but I like to make them if possible. I admit that I was one of the earliest strong buyers of the gold stickered slabs. Example; the black NGC slabbed liberty Head nickel proof PR63.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Comments
<< <i>What Wei said.....you take it into a coin shop, you're gonna get offered bluesheet 64....possibly bluesheet 65 if you're lucky. >>
And I wonder what they'd sell it for.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder what the typical B & M coin shop dealer would offer for this coin.
10% back of bid
.....if you're lucky and he's in a generous mood. >>
They always seem to be good at playin dumb when they're buying, but in all fairness the local market here is probly not the best place to get top dollar.
That is very true and very well-stated.
<< <i>And while the hobby is primarily about the coin that doesn't necessarily mean it's exclusively about the coin.
That is very true and very well-stated.
TY sir.
<< <i>And while the hobby is primarily about the coin that doesn't necessarily mean it's exclusively about the coin.
That is very true and very well-stated.
But with the same logic, the hobby is not exclusively about the beaned plastic either which this thread basically is.
$74 for a regular MS64....essentially >4X multiple.
I can understand investors early to the scene trying to squirrel away all the gold rattlers they can. Even if the long term logic doesn't make sense, we all know
how short term coin demand/promotions work. It doesn't have to make sense. It only has to work long enough for the early participants to make money. I can also
understand doilies and black slabs which exist in limited #'s (ie they aren't making any more). But we are still making gold bean porridge. How many rattlers are still
out there in the possession of investors who got buried in common gem stuff back in the late 80's? Probably a lot more than we'd like to think (morgans, walkers, buffs,
mercs, lincolns, 3c nickels, etc.). Let's assume 1 MILL coins were graded by the time the last rattler was made. Then assume 1% of all rattlers still survive - 10,000 coins.
How many of those could be gold bean candidates? What would that do to the existing supply?
I have to agree 100% with TomB that being in the rattler holder and a gold bean is the whole story about that coin...That in itself makes that a VERY cool find if one is looking for cool...
Speaking of cool... At Fun one of my highlights of the entire show was i had the privilege of viewing an entire box, i believe 20 or so, of VERY wonderful rattler holder-ed coins in a private collection... Didn`t think to ask if any had been to CAC but i do not recall any beans at all on them and many of the coins were absolutely stunning...
AB
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think those who are concentrating on how logical it is to buy a possibly undergraded by one or two points MS64 for MS66+/- money are missing the mark with this coin and its niche. The gold bean might be silly to some, but the percentage of coins that earn such beans in their current holders is quite small and we as collectors or dealers all like to own things that are cool, that are tough to find or that are different. This coin falls into that niche with its older holder and gold bean. Therefore, we are not writing about a cost-benefit analysis for acquisition vs. possible regrade, but are writing about buying something cool and different even if what makes it so is not the coin itself. >>
But what's "cool" about a coin that is guaranteed to be at least MS65.4 and pay a MS66.0 price for it? Let's not forget that our hobby is primarily about the coin in the holder.
What happens to CAC beans if CAC goes out of business? Hallmark holders are pretty scarce as well and the grading is tighter than today's standards, are they worth anything today?
What JA needs to do is come up with a platinum bean to identify 2 pt upgrades. That would really be worth the $300. But in this case the coin would probably bid up to $500...lol.
The underlying "asset" in the coin market is the value of the standalone coin. Sometime down the road, this coin will once again be asked to perform to that standard. Just hope you
aren't the current owner when that time comes. We first brought this topic up in 2003-2006 as all the sloppily graded coins were hitting the market and that judgement day would
eventually came. It came alright, in the guise of stickers. Fwiw a gold bean in a current holder is probably far rarer than a rattler or ogh. Just my 2 cents. >>
FYI there is a platinum bean. And while the hobby is primarily about the coin that doesn't necessarily mean it's exclusively about the coin. >>
No platinum bean, straight from CAC.
Neither - it was like a tuna caught in the net while dragging the bottom for pollock.
Neither - it was like a tuna caught in the net while dragging the bottom for haddock.
<< <i>Oops - just got a PM from someone that was potentially offended.......
Neither - it was like a tuna caught in the net while dragging the bottom for haddock.
<< <i>Getting out of control >>
A fool and his money.........
Bet the sellers hating his 7 day no question asked return option on this listing right about now
This will be fun one to watch
1880-S
Now THAT was, fun! Both rattler and the latest PCGS blue label slabs.
I even found a lovely 1916-D dime in G-04 and got it gold stickered. PCGS of course.
I am really learning how to grade some coins. Little by little.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
With that return policy the buyer will take it to his local coin guru to see if/how much they think it will upgrade- and then return it once they find out...
(Looking at the marks on the obverse I'd say 65, shot 66, but in either case, nowhere worth the stupid money it's bringing)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
At least here, you got something.
<< <i>Many good thoughts above . . .
The Gold Bean holders are just being sought after by several serious collectors. Are they present in this bidding? I do not know. Are they serious? Yes. At the Long Beach show last summer, I was privy to a discussion where several dealers (one of whom has posted on this thread already), mentioned at LEAST two 'major' players who are collecting ANYTHING with a Gold Bean. No, I don't know why. The prices they were willing to pay were in the vicinity of 2x sheet for ANY coin with a gold bean, regardless of date or denomination. They were just accumulating Gold Beans, which are certainly not common in the market. As with Beanie Babies, baseball cards, or Lladro . . . there will always be a market for anything perceived as "rare" (in quotes as I was taken to task on the meaning of that word many threads ago).
By the way, I was very happy when two of my Mercs in 2.0/2.1 NGC holders went 'goldie' 2 weeks ago!!!
Drunner
(Doily Slut) >>
I second this. I know of at least one of the major players. He's trying to accumulate 500 of the gold stickers. He paid stupid money for one of TAMU15's coins at FUN.
-Paul
WS
<< <i>WOW! Thats a lot for a sticker. Cant an 81-S in 67 be bought for that much money? >>
For that bid you can buy a 67 AND a 66.
<< <i>WOW! Thats a lot for a sticker. Cant an 81-S in 67 be bought for that much money? >>
Yes with some color and a green cac striker.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I'm out.
peacockcoins
<< <i>I second this. I know of at least one of the major players. He's trying to accumulate 500 of the gold stickers. He paid stupid money for one of TAMU15's coins at FUN.
-Paul >>
I got a call from our mutual gold-sticker friend today, because he knew I was getting a shipment of 40 coins back from CAC. He regularly calls me regarding my CAC submissions, to get first shot at gold stickers. A couple of these guys are serious about gold stickers, and are diligent about competing to make sure one doesn't slip through their hands.
Regarding this auction, the seller, oldnstupid, has bought several rattlers from me, two of which he's selling right now. Thankfully, he didn't buy that 1881-S from me. After seeing this auction result, I'd be kicking myself for a long time if I'd let that slip through without CACing it. I usually crack, not CAC, undergraded MS64 widgets, but I'll think twice about that now.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
But I can't believe the 1881-S shown below is now priced the same as this silver dollar which has a delightful slab as a bonus.
I am NOT the collector that is putting together 500 of these gold stickered slabs. Don't get me wrong, I like these slabs, with the gold sticker but I like to make them if possible. I admit that I was one of the earliest strong buyers of the gold stickered slabs. Example; the black NGC slabbed liberty Head nickel proof PR63.
<< <i>perhaps a few bidders think they spotted some unattributed variety?? crazy. >>
How many 1881-S VAMs are there?
The Mayans were correct the world must be ending in 2012.
But, this is ridiculous.
Mike
I didn't know anyone who even collected coins LIVED in Cedar City! I need to go down there and find this guy!
I look at this as a legitimate $307 bid and 2 shills bidding it up for whatever reason. 2 feedback each???
Uh . . . .yeah.
Drunner
I noticed the same thing gold bean notwithstanding.
$1000 should get you 10 of these.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.