This thread has caused me to re-evaluate my method of filing taxes on my profits. After further research and discussion with the IRS I will be switching from Sched. C (self employed) to Sched. D (captial gains on investments). Two main reasons are simplicty and not having to pay the additional social security (self employment tax). All Sched. C filers be aware of a major change this year: there is now a new Form 8949 that is filed with the Sched. D. If you use a spreadsheet or are setting one up it would be in your best interest to do so based on information needed for the 8949.
Thanks to gecko for stimulating a re-evaluation of how I file. I'm no longer in "business," I'm now just a coin collector who also invests in coins and sells on ebay from the comfort of my own home (usually in my undies with a hot tea or a cold beer). Now for the long task of changing my business model (I mean investor model) of how I document and track my "investments." Once done I expect it to be much simpler.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i> I'm now just a coin collector who also invests in coins and sells on ebay from the comfort of my own home (usually in my undies with a hot tea or a cold beer). >>
Did you buy that car with the sole purpose of re-selling it for a profit? If that was your only intention, then yes...you are a car dealer.
Thats what makes the distinction from "hobbyist" to dealer......when you buy items with the intention of simply re-selling them for profit. Some call it a "flipper", but by that logic, then BestBuy is just a "flipper" of electronics, and Kroger is simply a "flipper" of food products.
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer".
Did you buy that car with the sole purpose of re-selling it for a profit? If that was your only intention, then yes...you are a car dealer.
Thats what makes the distinction from "hobbyist" to dealer......when you buy items with the intention of simply re-selling them for profit. Some call it a "flipper", but by that logic, then BestBuy is just a "flipper" of electronics, and Kroger is simply a "flipper" of food products.
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer". >>
I'm just fueling the fire! I would prefer it if you called yourself "Bullion Peddler" though
"If you hit a midget on the head with a stick, he turns into 40 gold coins." - Patty Oswalt
Thats what makes the distinction from "hobbyist" to dealer......when you buy items with the intention of simply re-selling them for profit. Some call it a "flipper", but by that logic, then BestBuy is just a "flipper" of electronics, and Kroger is simply a "flipper" of food products.
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer".
A big problem with our hobby (and society in general) is the craving for "labels" and "categories" that everything should fit in. Such binary determinations oversimplify almost all description of events and conditions to the point of uselessness. Seriously, are you a Dealer or not? which of the two? Is it AT or is it NT, has to be one or the other! Hey, that's a Modern, no it's not, yes it is! Is an ASE a Real Coin, yes or no? Are you Red or are you Blue, which of the Two?
It's plenty of dealers that make good money out there. For what I saw here on the forum and with couple of transactions, Gecko has the knowledge to succeed in this venture.
Good luck!
The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Did you buy that car with the sole purpose of re-selling it for a profit? If that was your only intention, then yes...you are a car dealer.
Thats what makes the distinction from "hobbyist" to dealer......when you buy items with the intention of simply re-selling them for profit. Some call it a "flipper", but by that logic, then BestBuy is just a "flipper" of electronics, and Kroger is simply a "flipper" of food products.
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer". >>
Some people just can't stand to see a businessman make a profit.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Personally I think it's going to be tough to make it worth your time after you figure expenses and taxes as a bullion dealer. If you start working as an agent for folks or buy and resell more than just boring old bullion than I can see where there's money to be made, but if you're just selling regular old bullion it seems like it wouldn't be worth it. The margins are quite thin and as a small time player you're probably not going to hedge so a dramatic downturn in spot pricing can really put you in a hole. Still, if you feel the fire to give it a shot than by all means you should try it. After all you'll never succeed as a dealer if you don't start dealing ...
I've given this topic a bit of thought lately as I've found that I'm able to either find something on eBay, or at the local shows, weekly to make money on. Personally I'm going to monitor my paypal account carefully this year and make sure I don't break 19K, but it's going to be tough as I have quite a few things I may unload this year. I consider myself a hoarder and not a flipper, but over the last few years I buy and sell more in each year than the last and unless I'm careful this year the 20K limit is going to hit me quite quickly.
Don't you guys just love paying your "fair share" at tax time ?
A dealer friend of mine shifted his vest pocket dealing hours to almost all bullion over the past 3 years as the coin market was drying up. He can't buy coins right and can't find buyers for the ones he does buy. But he's making out very well churning about $20,000 per week in scrap bullion and coin bullion purchases. He works on 4-5% by paying higher than any of the coin shops, Cash4Golds or Pawns and then ships directly to large regional buyers or the refiner. He's probably profiting about $80K to $100K per year as a smaller buyer. And because he pays fair, he gets tons of repeat business, has several jewelers locked up with him as the only buyer, and gets coin collections via word of mouth from working so tight (pays 94%) on the scrap jewelry. Anyone with a coin background can do this if they are motivated. My friend is doing this full time and he loves it.
<< <i>Personally I think it's going to be tough to make it worth your time after you figure expenses and taxes as a bullion dealer. If you start working as an agent for folks or buy and resell more than just boring old bullion than I can see where there's money to be made, but if you're just selling regular old bullion it seems like it wouldn't be worth it. The margins are quite thin and as a small time player you're probably not going to hedge so a dramatic downturn in spot pricing can really put you in a hole. Still, if you feel the fire to give it a shot than by all means you should try it. After all you'll never succeed as a dealer if you don't start dealing ...
I've given this topic a bit of thought lately as I've found that I'm able to either find something on eBay, or at the local shows, weekly to make money on. Personally I'm going to monitor my paypal account carefully this year and make sure I don't break 19K, but it's going to be tough as I have quite a few things I may unload this year. I consider myself a hoarder and not a flipper, but over the last few years I buy and sell more in each year than the last and unless I'm careful this year the 20K limit is going to hit me quite quickly.
Don't you guys just love paying your "fair share" at tax time ? >>
Thanks for the response, but I do not, and will not be selling "regular old bullion". If you had read my 1st posting more carefully, you see that I intend to deal with "tough" bullion....stuff that flies under the radar locally, but sells for fat premiums on ebay.
<< <i>Personally I think it's going to be tough to make it worth your time after you figure expenses and taxes as a bullion dealer. If you start working as an agent for folks or buy and resell more than just boring old bullion than I can see where there's money to be made, but if you're just selling regular old bullion it seems like it wouldn't be worth it. The margins are quite thin and as a small time player you're probably not going to hedge so a dramatic downturn in spot pricing can really put you in a hole. Still, if you feel the fire to give it a shot than by all means you should try it. After all you'll never succeed as a dealer if you don't start dealing ...
I've given this topic a bit of thought lately as I've found that I'm able to either find something on eBay, or at the local shows, weekly to make money on. Personally I'm going to monitor my paypal account carefully this year and make sure I don't break 19K, but it's going to be tough as I have quite a few things I may unload this year. I consider myself a hoarder and not a flipper, but over the last few years I buy and sell more in each year than the last and unless I'm careful this year the 20K limit is going to hit me quite quickly.
Don't you guys just love paying your "fair share" at tax time ? >>
Thanks for the response, but I do not, and will not be selling "regular old bullion". If you had read my 1st posting more carefully, you see that I intend to deal with "tough" bullion....stuff that flies under the radar locally, but sells for fat premiums on ebay. >>
I had to go back and re-read that. First time through I saw "dealing bullion" and thought that meant all bullion. The explanation later did not register, and the thread title implied all bullion.
Might I suggest that you refer to it as "collectible bullion" or "numismatic bullion" just to avoid confusion?
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Thanks for the response, but I do not, and will not be selling "regular old bullion". If you had read my 1st posting more carefully, you see that I intend to deal with "tough" bullion....stuff that flies under the radar locally, but sells for fat premiums on ebay. >>
I understood what you meant, but I was still assuming most of your business would be from dealing in regular bullion as there are only so many local shows and shops to snag lunars and other collectible bullion from. I hit the local scene (and B&Ms) too looking to buy stuff from dealers who subscribe to the 'it all melts the same' mantra. I always find something worth buying at every show, but for me personally I just don't see how I could make a living flipping stuff considering the tremendous amount of money lost in taxes and expenses. Of course if the FUN show happened twice a month I'm sure I could indeed survive by flipping stuff , but most shows typically have only a handful of dealer tables to browse through. Admittedly I only know modern coins well enough to snag/cherry them from dealers, but that's also why I'm learning as much as I can about numismatics right now. At some point in the next year I hope I'll know enough to start buying Lincoln cents and/or Morgans, but I'm not about to dip my toes in those waters yet as I have a lot to learn still. In fact, honestly it's a bit discouraging on some level as the more I learn the more I realize I haven't a clue ...
Comments
IRS FORM 8949
SCHED. D & FORM 8949 INSTRUCTIONS
Thanks to gecko for stimulating a re-evaluation of how I file. I'm no longer in "business," I'm now just a coin collector who also invests in coins and sells on ebay from the comfort of my own home (usually in my undies with a hot tea or a cold beer). Now for the long task of changing my business model (I mean investor model) of how I document and track my "investments." Once done I expect it to be much simpler.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i> I'm now just a coin collector who also invests in coins and sells on ebay from the comfort of my own home (usually in my undies with a hot tea or a cold beer). >>
I'm sorry but
<< <i>I once sold a car so I'm a "car dealer" >>
Did you buy that car with the sole purpose of re-selling it for a profit? If that was your only intention, then yes...you are a car dealer.
Thats what makes the distinction from "hobbyist" to dealer......when you buy items with the intention of simply re-selling them for profit. Some call it a "flipper", but by that logic, then BestBuy is just a "flipper" of electronics, and Kroger is simply a "flipper" of food products.
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer".
<< <i>
<< <i>I once sold a car so I'm a "car dealer" >>
Did you buy that car with the sole purpose of re-selling it for a profit? If that was your only intention, then yes...you are a car dealer.
Thats what makes the distinction from "hobbyist" to dealer......when you buy items with the intention of simply re-selling them for profit. Some call it a "flipper", but by that logic, then BestBuy is just a "flipper" of electronics, and Kroger is simply a "flipper" of food products.
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer". >>
I'm just fueling the fire! I would prefer it if you called yourself "Bullion Peddler" though
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer".
A big problem with our hobby (and society in general) is the craving for "labels" and "categories" that everything should fit in. Such binary determinations oversimplify almost all description of events and conditions to the point of uselessness. Seriously, are you a Dealer or not? which of the two? Is it AT or is it NT, has to be one or the other! Hey, that's a Modern, no it's not, yes it is! Is an ASE a Real Coin, yes or no? Are you Red or are you Blue, which of the Two?
Nuance quickly becoming is a lost art in America
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
For what I saw here on the forum and with couple of transactions, Gecko has the knowledge to succeed in this venture.
Good luck!
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>I once sold a car so I'm a "car dealer" >>
Did you buy that car with the sole purpose of re-selling it for a profit? If that was your only intention, then yes...you are a car dealer.
Thats what makes the distinction from "hobbyist" to dealer......when you buy items with the intention of simply re-selling them for profit. Some call it a "flipper", but by that logic, then BestBuy is just a "flipper" of electronics, and Kroger is simply a "flipper" of food products.
I wonder why some of you have such trouble with that term....."dealer". >>
Some people just can't stand to see a businessman make a profit.
I've given this topic a bit of thought lately as I've found that I'm able to either find something on eBay, or at the local shows, weekly to make money on. Personally I'm going to monitor my paypal account carefully this year and make sure I don't break 19K, but it's going to be tough as I have quite a few things I may unload this year. I consider myself a hoarder and not a flipper, but over the last few years I buy and sell more in each year than the last and unless I'm careful this year the 20K limit is going to hit me quite quickly.
Don't you guys just love paying your "fair share" at tax time
can't find buyers for the ones he does buy. But he's making out very well churning about $20,000 per week in scrap bullion and coin bullion purchases. He works on
4-5% by paying higher than any of the coin shops, Cash4Golds or Pawns and then ships directly to large regional buyers or the refiner. He's probably profiting about
$80K to $100K per year as a smaller buyer. And because he pays fair, he gets tons of repeat business, has several jewelers locked up with him as the only buyer, and
gets coin collections via word of mouth from working so tight (pays 94%) on the scrap jewelry. Anyone with a coin background can do this if they are motivated. My friend is doing
this full time and he loves it.
<< <i>Personally I think it's going to be tough to make it worth your time after you figure expenses and taxes as a bullion dealer. If you start working as an agent for folks or buy and resell more than just boring old bullion than I can see where there's money to be made, but if you're just selling regular old bullion it seems like it wouldn't be worth it. The margins are quite thin and as a small time player you're probably not going to hedge so a dramatic downturn in spot pricing can really put you in a hole. Still, if you feel the fire to give it a shot than by all means you should try it. After all you'll never succeed as a dealer if you don't start dealing
I've given this topic a bit of thought lately as I've found that I'm able to either find something on eBay, or at the local shows, weekly to make money on. Personally I'm going to monitor my paypal account carefully this year and make sure I don't break 19K, but it's going to be tough as I have quite a few things I may unload this year. I consider myself a hoarder and not a flipper, but over the last few years I buy and sell more in each year than the last and unless I'm careful this year the 20K limit is going to hit me quite quickly.
Don't you guys just love paying your "fair share" at tax time
Thanks for the response, but I do not, and will not be selling "regular old bullion". If you had read my 1st posting more carefully, you see that I intend to deal with "tough" bullion....stuff that flies under the radar locally, but sells for fat premiums on ebay.
<< <i>
<< <i>Personally I think it's going to be tough to make it worth your time after you figure expenses and taxes as a bullion dealer. If you start working as an agent for folks or buy and resell more than just boring old bullion than I can see where there's money to be made, but if you're just selling regular old bullion it seems like it wouldn't be worth it. The margins are quite thin and as a small time player you're probably not going to hedge so a dramatic downturn in spot pricing can really put you in a hole. Still, if you feel the fire to give it a shot than by all means you should try it. After all you'll never succeed as a dealer if you don't start dealing
I've given this topic a bit of thought lately as I've found that I'm able to either find something on eBay, or at the local shows, weekly to make money on. Personally I'm going to monitor my paypal account carefully this year and make sure I don't break 19K, but it's going to be tough as I have quite a few things I may unload this year. I consider myself a hoarder and not a flipper, but over the last few years I buy and sell more in each year than the last and unless I'm careful this year the 20K limit is going to hit me quite quickly.
Don't you guys just love paying your "fair share" at tax time
Thanks for the response, but I do not, and will not be selling "regular old bullion". If you had read my 1st posting more carefully, you see that I intend to deal with "tough" bullion....stuff that flies under the radar locally, but sells for fat premiums on ebay. >>
I had to go back and re-read that. First time through I saw "dealing bullion" and thought that meant all bullion. The explanation later did not register, and the thread title implied all bullion.
Might I suggest that you refer to it as "collectible bullion" or "numismatic bullion" just to avoid confusion?
TD
<< <i>Thanks for the response, but I do not, and will not be selling "regular old bullion". If you had read my 1st posting more carefully, you see that I intend to deal with "tough" bullion....stuff that flies under the radar locally, but sells for fat premiums on ebay. >>
I understood what you meant, but I was still assuming most of your business would be from dealing in regular bullion as there are only so many local shows and shops to snag lunars and other collectible bullion from. I hit the local scene (and B&Ms) too looking to buy stuff from dealers who subscribe to the 'it all melts the same' mantra. I always find something worth buying at every show, but for me personally I just don't see how I could make a living flipping stuff considering the tremendous amount of money lost in taxes and expenses. Of course if the FUN show happened twice a month I'm sure I could indeed survive by flipping stuff