<< <i>My goal is to get all my coins into holders two points lower than the current grades, get them all stickered gold, and have the most PQ collection on earth >>
Gold is so tacky, I recommend the Platinum sticker.
<< <i>Oh I agree the market right now is goofy when it comes to green beans. Something with a gold bean will sell for much more than the exact same coin in a holder graded a point higher. There's no substantive reason it should.
I'm just saying that at some point the market as a whole will wake up and see beans for what they are. According to CAC's own website it simply means a coin is not weak for grade, or in other words an A or B coin. It does not imply the coin is somehow superior to another appropriately graded coin in the same holder. I will concede that there might be additional useful information when it pertains to gold coins.
At the end of the day, it's hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation regarading a subjective opinion made about a subjective grade on a coin sold in a world subject to market whims. The key is to buy right and sell right. I know from objective data that I am a solid rank amateur in this department. >>
Preach on, Bryce! I think this bean stuff is madness. I said it in another thread, but it reminds me of the Dr. Suess' Sneeches story. The crowd is running around trying to grab onto whatever is great right now.
If you would pay more money for a MS64 coin with a gold bean on it than a correctly graded MS65 then you're gonna be holding the bag unless you flip it to a greater fool. Beans in general will eventually be everywhere...potentially they could be put on about 2/3 of all slabbed coins...so they won't be so special...they won't command too much of a premium. Yes, the green beans will still have a slight premium, because it is like a plus grade...only weaker because a plus isn't implied. The gold beans will be valued at less than the next grade up because one grading company (the third party grader) previously refused to give the next higher grade (which does cast a shadow on whether the gold bean is correct).
Try this mental exercise. If I told you I have a coin that is worth $750 in MS64 and $1200 in MS65. Now I tell you that the slabbing company and CAC couldn't agree on either grade BUT I DID NOT TELL YOU WHO ASSIGNED WHICH GRADE...would you value it at more than $1200??? Or would you put its value somewhere between (sight unseen) because two professional grading companies disagreed on whether it was a 64 or a 65? If I took a coin to two respected coin collector friends and one told me it was a 64 and the other told me it was a 65, I would not think it was more valuable than a 65 and I'd probably be reluctant to pay full 65 money for it.
I devote several paragraphs to this 1799 dollar in today’s column. TDN is quoted in more than one passage. Comments by John Albanese, Matt Kleinsteuber, David McCarthy and Mark Feld are included:
<< <i>The same coin is awful dreck in a 67 holder, barely ok in a 66 holder, great in a 65 holder with a plus and a green sticker, and wildly exceptionally PQ in a 64 holder with a plus, a star, a gold sticker (for maximum PQ, it should also have a smiley face sticker.) >>
Just imagine the very same coin in a 58 holder, there wouldn't be enough room to place all the gold colored stickers!!!!!
<< <i>I devote several paragraphs to this 1799 dollar in today’s column. TDN is quoted in more than one passage. Comments by John Albanese, Matt Kleinsteuber, David McCarthy and Mark Feld are included:
Very good article. Some coins are very difficult to assign a single number to. And I do believe that it would have realized more money in a PCGS 65+ holder with a CAC sticker.
<< <i>Oh I agree the market right now is goofy when it comes to green beans. Something with a gold bean will sell for much more than the exact same coin in a holder graded a point higher. There's no substantive reason it should.
I'm just saying that at some point the market as a whole will wake up and see beans for what they are. According to CAC's own website it simply means a coin is not weak for grade, or in other words an A or B coin. It does not imply the coin is somehow superior to another appropriately graded coin in the same holder. I will concede that there might be additional useful information when it pertains to gold coins.
At the end of the day, it's hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation regarading a subjective opinion made about a subjective grade on a coin sold in a world subject to market whims. The key is to buy right and sell right. I know from objective data that I am a solid rank amateur in this department. >>
Preach on, Bryce! I think this bean stuff is madness. I said it in another thread, but it reminds me of the Dr. Suess' Sneeches story. The crowd is running around trying to grab onto whatever is great right now.
If you would pay more money for a MS64 coin with a gold bean on it than a correctly graded MS65 then you're gonna be holding the bag unless you flip it to a greater fool. Beans in general will eventually be everywhere...potentially they could be put on about 2/3 of all slabbed coins...so they won't be so special...they won't command too much of a premium. Yes, the green beans will still have a slight premium, because it is like a plus grade...only weaker because a plus isn't implied. The gold beans will be valued at less than the next grade up because one grading company (the third party grader) previously refused to give the next higher grade (which does cast a shadow on whether the gold bean is correct).
Try this mental exercise. If I told you I have a coin that is worth $750 in MS64 and $1200 in MS65. Now I tell you that the slabbing company and CAC couldn't agree on either grade BUT I DID NOT TELL YOU WHO ASSIGNED WHICH GRADE...would you value it at more than $1200??? Or would you put its value somewhere between (sight unseen) because two professional grading companies disagreed on whether it was a 64 or a 65? If I took a coin to two respected coin collector friends and one told me it was a 64 and the other told me it was a 65, I would not think it was more valuable than a 65 and I'd probably be reluctant to pay full 65 money for it.
Steve >>
There are some assumptions that you make that may not be so. For example, I have several gold sticker coins that are multiple upgrades, and they were obviously so before the sticker was placed. Others have off the charts eye appeal, fr which they deserve and would get premium pricing in the market. Not everything fits neatly into little boxes, and some of us have learned to actually look at the coin and understand what is (or is not) special about it.
Laura is never wrong. She told me so. She loves sexy coins. She hugs them,kisses them and and is married to them unless you offer her enough money for them.
Bruce - I thought you stopped collecting coins
You should ALWAYS buy the most appealing coins for your collection. You must do it with passion. It doesn't matter if it has a sticker or a plus On the coin. PCGS has plussed many coins that did not deserve a plus in my opinion. CAC has Also differed with experts in certain series. The most important person is the collector and never forget it.
<< <i>Laura is never wrong. She told me so. She loves sexy coins. She hugs them,kisses them and and is married to them unless you offer her enough money for them.
Bruce - I thought you stopped collecting coins
You should ALWAYS buy the most appealing coins for your collection. You must do it with passion. It doesn't matter if it has a sticker or a plus On the coin. PCGS has plussed many coins that did not deserve a plus in my opinion. CAC has Also differed with experts in certain series. The most important person is the collector and never forget it.
Stewart >>
I too still do not understand why a coin needs a sticker or a plus or even a correct grade to be appreciated by an astute collector. Now, when it comes time to sell, it is becoming obvious that stickered coins rule the marketplace. I do buy coins with stickers. After some time in my set, I remove them. Many of my coins have never had the opportunity to visit the sticker mill, but I am confident that JA will not refuse any of them. Regardless, at this time, that has no bearing on my appreciation of them.
In the overall majority, if you place 100 random CAC'd coins in front of you as well as another 100 random pcgs or ngc non stickered coins (of the same denominations) you will almost surely see a difference in quality.
This does not at all mean pcgs or ngc got the grade wrong, it just means that JA did not feel it was solid for the grade/original enough (or of course had not seen the coins).
JA has stickered coins that the first time did not sticker as well as took off stickers on coins that had one. Also ask Oreville about his 16-d dime that he resubmitted 332 times until he got a gold sticker on it
<< <i>people LOVE the underdog and also LOVE the coin with POTENTIAL.
That is why people crowd around the coin graded 65+ by PCGS or IN AN OLD PCGS or NGC slab or having a sticker.
Sticker means potential Old slab means potential + means potential
these can work separately or in conjunction with each other sometimes in a multiplier way.
You do NOT see as many people crowd around the POSSIBLY MAXED OUT coins graded 66 that does not have any of the three modifiers.
Simply a FACT. >>
Oreville is correct about the psychology of a coin or any other collectible with "potential", I see in myself all the time with regard to comic books. Right at a sweeter price point (usually), a certified CGC book that is a "F+" appeals to me more than a "F/VF" or "VF-" -- although they all are basically the same grade. Just something about that "+". Or in classic coin dealer parlance, the "++++++" and "L@@K!!!!"
<< <i>Laura is never wrong. She told me so. She loves sexy coins. She hugs them,kisses them and and is married to them unless you offer her enough money for them.
Bruce - I thought you stopped collecting coins
You should ALWAYS buy the most appealing coins for your collection. You must do it with passion. It doesn't matter if it has a sticker or a plus On the coin. PCGS has plussed many coins that did not deserve a plus in my opinion. CAC has Also differed with experts in certain series. The most important person is the collector and never forget it.
Stewart >>
Had to quote Stewart here for some mighty worthwhile sentiments.
Comments
<< <i>My goal is to get all my coins into holders two points lower than the current grades, get them all stickered gold, and have the most PQ collection on earth >>
Gold is so tacky, I recommend the Platinum sticker.
That is why people crowd around the coin graded 65+ by PCGS or IN AN OLD PCGS or NGC slab or having a sticker.
Sticker means potential
Old slab means potential
+ means potential
these can work separately or in conjunction with each other sometimes in a multiplier way.
You do NOT see as many people crowd around the POSSIBLY MAXED OUT coins graded 66 that does not have any of the three modifiers.
Simply a FACT.
<< <i>Oh I agree the market right now is goofy when it comes to green beans. Something with a gold bean will sell for much more than the exact same coin in a holder graded a point higher. There's no substantive reason it should.
I'm just saying that at some point the market as a whole will wake up and see beans for what they are. According to CAC's own website it simply means a coin is not weak for grade, or in other words an A or B coin. It does not imply the coin is somehow superior to another appropriately graded coin in the same holder. I will concede that there might be additional useful information when it pertains to gold coins.
At the end of the day, it's hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation regarading a subjective opinion made about a subjective grade on a coin sold in a world subject to market whims. The key is to buy right and sell right. I know from objective data that I am a solid rank amateur in this department. >>
Preach on, Bryce! I think this bean stuff is madness. I said it in another thread, but it reminds me of the Dr. Suess' Sneeches story. The crowd is running around trying to grab onto whatever is great right now.
If you would pay more money for a MS64 coin with a gold bean on it than a correctly graded MS65 then you're gonna be holding the bag unless you flip it to a greater fool. Beans in general will eventually be everywhere...potentially they could be put on about 2/3 of all slabbed coins...so they won't be so special...they won't command too much of a premium. Yes, the green beans will still have a slight premium, because it is like a plus grade...only weaker because a plus isn't implied. The gold beans will be valued at less than the next grade up because one grading company (the third party grader) previously refused to give the next higher grade (which does cast a shadow on whether the gold bean is correct).
Try this mental exercise. If I told you I have a coin that is worth $750 in MS64 and $1200 in MS65. Now I tell you that the slabbing company and CAC couldn't agree on either grade BUT I DID NOT TELL YOU WHO ASSIGNED WHICH GRADE...would you value it at more than $1200??? Or would you put its value somewhere between (sight unseen) because two professional grading companies disagreed on whether it was a 64 or a 65? If I took a coin to two respected coin collector friends and one told me it was a 64 and the other told me it was a 65, I would not think it was more valuable than a 65 and I'd probably be reluctant to pay full 65 money for it.
Steve
Early Silver Dollars & Grading Issues
<< <i>The same coin is awful dreck in a 67 holder, barely ok in a 66 holder, great in a 65 holder with a plus and a green sticker, and wildly exceptionally PQ in a 64 holder with a plus, a star, a gold sticker (for maximum PQ, it should also have a smiley face sticker.) >>
Just imagine the very same coin in a 58 holder, there wouldn't be enough room to place all the gold colored stickers!!!!!
Can you imagine the wealth this would add to my bottom line???
<< <i>I devote several paragraphs to this 1799 dollar in today’s column. TDN is quoted in more than one passage. Comments by John Albanese, Matt Kleinsteuber, David McCarthy and Mark Feld are included:
Early Silver Dollars & Grading Issues >>
Very good article. Some coins are very difficult to assign a single number to. And I do believe that it would have realized more money in a PCGS 65+ holder with a CAC sticker.
I have crosses many NGC star coins to PCGS.
In the end the coins ALL CAC and are all very high end for the new grade.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh I agree the market right now is goofy when it comes to green beans. Something with a gold bean will sell for much more than the exact same coin in a holder graded a point higher. There's no substantive reason it should.
I'm just saying that at some point the market as a whole will wake up and see beans for what they are. According to CAC's own website it simply means a coin is not weak for grade, or in other words an A or B coin. It does not imply the coin is somehow superior to another appropriately graded coin in the same holder. I will concede that there might be additional useful information when it pertains to gold coins.
At the end of the day, it's hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation regarading a subjective opinion made about a subjective grade on a coin sold in a world subject to market whims. The key is to buy right and sell right. I know from objective data that I am a solid rank amateur in this department. >>
Preach on, Bryce! I think this bean stuff is madness. I said it in another thread, but it reminds me of the Dr. Suess' Sneeches story. The crowd is running around trying to grab onto whatever is great right now.
If you would pay more money for a MS64 coin with a gold bean on it than a correctly graded MS65 then you're gonna be holding the bag unless you flip it to a greater fool. Beans in general will eventually be everywhere...potentially they could be put on about 2/3 of all slabbed coins...so they won't be so special...they won't command too much of a premium. Yes, the green beans will still have a slight premium, because it is like a plus grade...only weaker because a plus isn't implied. The gold beans will be valued at less than the next grade up because one grading company (the third party grader) previously refused to give the next higher grade (which does cast a shadow on whether the gold bean is correct).
Try this mental exercise. If I told you I have a coin that is worth $750 in MS64 and $1200 in MS65. Now I tell you that the slabbing company and CAC couldn't agree on either grade BUT I DID NOT TELL YOU WHO ASSIGNED WHICH GRADE...would you value it at more than $1200??? Or would you put its value somewhere between (sight unseen) because two professional grading companies disagreed on whether it was a 64 or a 65? If I took a coin to two respected coin collector friends and one told me it was a 64 and the other told me it was a 65, I would not think it was more valuable than a 65 and I'd probably be reluctant to pay full 65 money for it.
Steve >>
There are some assumptions that you make that may not be so. For example, I have several gold sticker coins that are multiple upgrades, and they were obviously so before the sticker was placed. Others have off the charts eye appeal, fr which they deserve and would get premium pricing in the market. Not everything fits neatly into little boxes, and some of us have learned to actually look at the coin and understand what is (or is not) special about it.
Laura is never wrong. She told me so. She loves sexy coins. She hugs them,kisses them and and is married to them unless you offer her enough money for them.
Bruce - I thought you stopped collecting coins
You should ALWAYS buy the most appealing coins for your collection. You must do it with passion. It doesn't matter if it has a sticker or a plus
On the coin. PCGS has plussed many coins that did not deserve a plus in my opinion. CAC has Also differed with experts in certain series.
The most important person is the collector and never forget it.
Stewart
BC
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>Laura is never wrong. She told me so. She loves sexy coins. She hugs them,kisses them and and is married to them unless you offer her enough money for them.
Bruce - I thought you stopped collecting coins
You should ALWAYS buy the most appealing coins for your collection. You must do it with passion. It doesn't matter if it has a sticker or a plus
On the coin. PCGS has plussed many coins that did not deserve a plus in my opinion. CAC has Also differed with experts in certain series.
The most important person is the collector and never forget it.
Stewart >>
I too still do not understand why a coin needs a sticker or a plus or even a correct grade to be appreciated by an astute collector. Now, when it comes time to sell, it is becoming obvious that stickered coins rule the marketplace. I do buy coins with stickers. After some time in my set, I remove them. Many of my coins have never had the opportunity to visit the sticker mill, but I am confident that JA will not refuse any of them. Regardless, at this time, that has no bearing on my appreciation of them.
Empty Nest Collection
This does not at all mean pcgs or ngc got the grade wrong, it just means that JA did not feel it was solid for the grade/original enough (or of course had not seen the coins).
JA has stickered coins that the first time did not sticker as well as took off stickers on coins that had one.
Also ask Oreville about his 16-d dime that he resubmitted 332 times until he got a gold sticker on it
CAC 90%+=quality.
<< <i>people LOVE the underdog and also LOVE the coin with POTENTIAL.
That is why people crowd around the coin graded 65+ by PCGS or IN AN OLD PCGS or NGC slab or having a sticker.
Sticker means potential
Old slab means potential
+ means potential
these can work separately or in conjunction with each other sometimes in a multiplier way.
You do NOT see as many people crowd around the POSSIBLY MAXED OUT coins graded 66 that does not have any of the three modifiers.
Simply a FACT. >>
Oreville is correct about the psychology of a coin or any other collectible with "potential", I see in myself all the time with regard to comic books. Right at a sweeter price point (usually), a certified CGC book that is a "F+" appeals to me more than a "F/VF" or "VF-" -- although they all are basically the same grade. Just something about that "+". Or in classic coin dealer parlance, the "++++++" and "L@@K!!!!"
<< <i>Laura is never wrong. She told me so. She loves sexy coins. She hugs them,kisses them and and is married to them unless you offer her enough money for them.
Bruce - I thought you stopped collecting coins
You should ALWAYS buy the most appealing coins for your collection. You must do it with passion. It doesn't matter if it has a sticker or a plus
On the coin. PCGS has plussed many coins that did not deserve a plus in my opinion. CAC has Also differed with experts in certain series.
The most important person is the collector and never forget it.
Stewart >>
Had to quote Stewart here for some mighty worthwhile sentiments.