bags of BU 1860-O dollars
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
From what I understand, during the mint bag releases of the 1950s and '60s, a few BU bags of 1860-O and 1859-O dollars emerged.
Is there any info on who was the lucky recipient of these bags? How did the market receive this influx of BU seated dollars? Is it known specifically how many bags emerged? Are there any Seated Dollar dates besides 1859-O and 1860-O for which bags were found?
Is there any info on who was the lucky recipient of these bags? How did the market receive this influx of BU seated dollars? Is it known specifically how many bags emerged? Are there any Seated Dollar dates besides 1859-O and 1860-O for which bags were found?
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During the same 1962-1964 Treasury release of backdated silver dollars, it is believed that one to three mint-sealed bags of 1,000 Uncirculated coins, amounting to as many as 3,000 coins totally, were distributed. Almost without exception, the coins from these bags are heavily bagmarked and scarred, the result of careless storage, handling and shipping procedures over the years, the average grade today being MS-60 or just slightly better.
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There are also references to a bag of 1871 unc dollars appearing as well, but the details are sketchy.
QDB and James Ruddy personally purchased, sorted, and later sold off at least one bag of circ Seated Dollars acquired through the Detroit Federal Reserve Bank in 1963. He said Ohio dealer James Kelly also acquired another bag from the same source.
Philadelphia dealer Harry Forman was very involved. Harry once told me that he and his assistant Ruth Bauer would make weekly trips to the Treasury in Washington in their two Cadillacs. They'd fill up the trucks and drive back to Philadelphia with the rear ends dragging the road.
Most people know about the 1903-O Morgans. Before the 1962 Treasury release they were the rarest Morgan, with BUs worth $1500 or so, more than an 1895 proof or 1893-S. But the 1898-O and 1904-O were also very rare. I believe the Redbook price for the 98-O was $400 and the 04-O $200, when common dates were barely over face value. A few other better dates came out, mostly O-Mints. I have heard of 1889-O's and an old time roll dealer, Harry Warner, told me years ago that he had a bag of 1894-O's. And there were definitely some bags of 1859-O and 1860-O dollars, many more of the 1860-O's than the 1859-O's. When you see a frosty, but baggy, MS62ish 1860-O Seated dollar today, it probably came from the Treasury release bags. In the early 1970's, there were still quite a few around and you'd see them at every coin show. Nowadays, you don't see them very often, but you can say that about a lot of coins.
hrh
See that`s exactly the greatest thing about this forum when something like that is posted... Very cool
Would be awesome to see one of those 1860-O`s with chatter...
AB
I have seen an intact bag of 1889-cc firsthand. Owner claimed he bought it in the early 70's...
<< <i>I remember about a year ago I stumbled upon a picture of a seated lib New orleans bag that came out during 1963 from a bank. Unsure if it was the 1860's it could have been, Ill look for it again.
I have seen an intact bag of 1889-cc firsthand. Owner claimed he bought it in the early 70's... >>
Does the owner still have that intact bag of 1889-CC's?
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>Wow... that would be amazing ...intact bag of 1889 CC's... sure would like to see that... Cheers, RickO >>
that would be awesome to see
I will pay $5000 cash just to see a bag of BU 1889-CC dollars. No questions asked...50 Bens on the spot.
This has been a rumor floating around the coin market for decades. About every 10 years or so for the last 30 I get a call from someone who has one. It's always a third party scam. Fifteen years ago, Greg Roberts from Spectrum called me. "What do I know about a bag 89-CC's?" He told me the name of the guy. Same scammer, he'd been involved in other scams.
Not saying Twinturbo is a scammer, or involved in any way. I just don't believe this deal exists. But I'm willing to pay cash to be proven wrong. Pass the word along. Don't even have to show me the whole bag, just 5 or 10 original rolls.
Other fantasy deals: the big one is the roll set of 20th Century coins, everything...1916 Standing quarter BU roll, 1921-S half BU roll, BU roll of 1927-D Saints. Been rumored for decades. I even saw an inventory list once.
I just don't think these deals exist.
But while were at it, I'd pay $10,000 just to see a frosty uncirculated 1895 Philadelphia Morgan dollar.
hrh
<< <i>Wow... that would be amazing ...intact bag of 1889 CC's... sure would like to see that... Cheers, RickO >>
Some could be toned though Ricko!
<< <i>I will pay $5000 cash just to see a bag of BU 1889-CC dollars. No questions asked...50 Bens on the spot.
This has been a rumor floating around the coin market for decades. About every 10 years or so for the last 30 I get a call from someone who has one. It's always a third party scam. Fifteen years ago, Greg Roberts from Spectrum called me. "What do I know about a bag 89-CC's?" He told me the name of the guy. Same scammer, he'd been involved in other scams.
Not saying Twinturbo is a scammer, or involved in any way. I just don't believe this deal exists. But I'm willing to pay cash to be proven wrong. Pass the word along. Don't even have to show me the whole bag, just 5 or 10 original rolls.
Other fantasy deals: the big one is the roll set of 20th Century coins, everything...1916 Standing quarter BU roll, 1921-S half BU roll, BU roll of 1927-D Saints. Been rumored for decades. I even saw an inventory list once.
I just don't think these deals exist.
But while were at it, I'd pay $10,000 just to see a frosty uncirculated 1895 Philadelphia Morgan dollar.
hrh >>
I think Mr. Hall's offer will pretty much kill that rumor for good. Dead and buried, as far as I'm concerned.
Coin Rarities Online
As for the 60-Os, they come baggy as all get out. I wouldn't be surprised if TDN has a couple clean gems tucked away, and it probably took a long time to find them.
Bowers' reports that Ben Stack said that he had three bags of '89-CCs: two were sold before 1976 and the third was offered by Stack to Bowers in February 1976. Bowers implies that he didn't buy the bag.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>For those of you who are interested, Bowers' Silver Dollar Encyclopedia (see previous link above) has a nice discussion of bags of '89-CC dollars.
Bowers' reports that Ben Stack said that he had three bags of '89-CCs: two were sold before 1976 and the third was offered by Stack to Bowers in February 1976. Bowers implies that he didn't buy the bag. >>
Current populations simply do not support the idea of 3 BU bags of 1889-CC dollars. Current pops don't even support the idea of 1 BU bag of 1889-CC's being distributed. I find it unlikely that three bags of 1889-CC dollars have found such strong hands that the owners are willing to sit on a $15,000,000/bag (assuming depreciated value upon distribution) item like that.
The best sources would be Ruth Bauer in Phila and Dave Bowers.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>Pops mean jack, what makes you think the bags were broken and distributed? >>
LOL. What makes you think that they would not be?
<< <i>That is some very cool info HRH...Thank you for taking the time...
See that`s exactly the greatest thing about this forum when something like that is posted... Very cool
Would be awesome to see one of those 1860-O`s with chatter...
AB
AB,Would be more awesome to me to see a bag toned BU 1860-O
<< <i>I will pay $5000 cash just to see a bag of BU 1889-CC dollars. No questions asked...50 Bens on the spot.
This has been a rumor floating around the coin market for decades. About every 10 years or so for the last 30 I get a call from someone who has one. It's always a third party scam. Fifteen years ago, Greg Roberts from Spectrum called me. "What do I know about a bag 89-CC's?" He told me the name of the guy. Same scammer, he'd been involved in other scams.
Not saying Twinturbo is a scammer, or involved in any way. I just don't believe this deal exists. But I'm willing to pay cash to be proven wrong. Pass the word along. Don't even have to show me the whole bag, just 5 or 10 original rolls.
Other fantasy deals: the big one is the roll set of 20th Century coins, everything...1916 Standing quarter BU roll, 1921-S half BU roll, BU roll of 1927-D Saints. Been rumored for decades. I even saw an inventory list once.
I just don't think these deals exist.
But while were at it, I'd pay $10,000 just to see a frosty uncirculated 1895 Philadelphia Morgan dollar.
hrh >>
Hall,
Could you point out to me in my original comment, where any sort of deal was mentioned?
I do NOT own the bag.
I have seen the bag once in all its glory.
The bag is NOT for sale.
For once the rumors were true. I havent heard of your other ones and will refrain from comment on them.
I wish you the best of luck with your $15k.
If you do find a business strike 1895 P morgan, I would be extremely interested.
Will,
I found the photo I shall upload it tonight.
According to some sources There is speculation it was 3 bags of UNC seated libs, 1859-O, 1860-O, and the final bag was a mix of both dates.
A bunch of circulated seated libs were also released.
<< <i>
<< <i>I will pay $5000 cash just to see a bag of BU 1889-CC dollars. No questions asked...50 Bens on the spot.
This has been a rumor floating around the coin market for decades. About every 10 years or so for the last 30 I get a call from someone who has one. It's always a third party scam. Fifteen years ago, Greg Roberts from Spectrum called me. "What do I know about a bag 89-CC's?" He told me the name of the guy. Same scammer, he'd been involved in other scams.
Not saying Twinturbo is a scammer, or involved in any way. I just don't believe this deal exists. But I'm willing to pay cash to be proven wrong. Pass the word along. Don't even have to show me the whole bag, just 5 or 10 original rolls.
Other fantasy deals: the big one is the roll set of 20th Century coins, everything...1916 Standing quarter BU roll, 1921-S half BU roll, BU roll of 1927-D Saints. Been rumored for decades. I even saw an inventory list once.
I just don't think these deals exist.
But while were at it, I'd pay $10,000 just to see a frosty uncirculated 1895 Philadelphia Morgan dollar.
hrh >>
Hall,
Could you point out to me in my original comment, where any sort of deal was mentioned?
I do NOT own the bag.
I have seen the bag once in all its glory.
The bag is NOT for sale.
For once the rumors were true. I havent heard of your other ones and will refrain from comment on them.
I wish you the best of luck with your $15k.
If you do find a business strike 1895 P morgan, I would be extremely interested.
Will,
I found the photo I shall upload it tonight.
According to some sources There is speculation it was 3 bags of UNC seated libs, 1859-O, 1860-O, and the final bag was a mix of both dates.
A bunch of circulated seated libs were also released. >>
I don't think that HRH was referring to a "deal" in the sense that you think he is. Some folks use the term deal to refer to a situation such as in the phrase "that's what that deal is".
Im guessing these were released in the 1960's, since once from the 1860's wouldn't be in such a decent condition.
<< <i>Pops mean jack, what makes you think the bags were broken and distributed? >>
If you read his post he states why he thinks the bags were broken up.
Here's an 1860-O in MS61, undoubtedly from the bags released in the early 1960's.
Jim
<< <i>
<< <i>I will pay $5000 cash just to see a bag of BU 1889-CC dollars. No questions asked...50 Bens on the spot.
This has been a rumor floating around the coin market for decades. About every 10 years or so for the last 30 I get a call from someone who has one. It's always a third party scam. Fifteen years ago, Greg Roberts from Spectrum called me. "What do I know about a bag 89-CC's?" He told me the name of the guy. Same scammer, he'd been involved in other scams.
Not saying Twinturbo is a scammer, or involved in any way. I just don't believe this deal exists. But I'm willing to pay cash to be proven wrong. Pass the word along. Don't even have to show me the whole bag, just 5 or 10 original rolls.
Other fantasy deals: the big one is the roll set of 20th Century coins, everything...1916 Standing quarter BU roll, 1921-S half BU roll, BU roll of 1927-D Saints. Been rumored for decades. I even saw an inventory list once.
I just don't think these deals exist.
But while were at it, I'd pay $10,000 just to see a frosty uncirculated 1895 Philadelphia Morgan dollar.
hrh >>
Did you see just "the bag", or did you examine the contants of the bag? Did you hold some of the 1889-CC's in your hand, verify they were that date & mint, see that they were all unc., etc? If so, you have witnessed what could be the most important find in US numismatics so far in the 21st century (right up there with the "find" of the 10 1933 $20's).
It would be very easy to put "1889-CC" on the outside of a sealed canvas bag of dollars.
Hall,
Could you point out to me in my original comment, where any sort of deal was mentioned?
I do NOT own the bag.
I have seen the bag once in all its glory.
The bag is NOT for sale.
For once the rumors were true. I havent heard of your other ones and will refrain from comment on them.
I wish you the best of luck with your $15k.
If you do find a business strike 1895 P morgan, I would be extremely interested.
Will,
I found the photo I shall upload it tonight.
According to some sources There is speculation it was 3 bags of UNC seated libs, 1859-O, 1860-O, and the final bag was a mix of both dates.
A bunch of circulated seated libs were also released. >>
Did you see just "the bag", or did you examine the contants of the bag? Did you hold some of the 1889-CC's in your hand, verify they were that date & mint, see that they were all unc., etc? If so, you have witnessed what could be the most important find in US numismatics so far in the 21st century (right up there with the "find" of the 10 1933 $20's).
It would be very easy to put "1889-CC" on the outside of a sealed canvas bag of dollars.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>If I had a bag of unc 89-CCs I would not take up HRH on his offer. Instead I would quietly sell them over a VERY LONG period of time.
As for the 60-Os, they come baggy as all get out. I wouldn't be surprised if TDN has a couple clean gems tucked away, and it probably took a long time to find them. >>
A seated expert dealer told me, you can tell a hoard coin by the mint mark size and location. There are some 1859-O and-1860-O that ARE NOT from the mint hoards.
I think there may have been a FEW(like one or two) other seated dollars sold in GSA soft packs that were other dates (like 1868'/9 come to mind).
<< <i>Would be awesome to see one of those 1860-O`s with chatter...
Here's an 1860-O in MS61, undoubtedly from the bags released in the early 1960's.
Jim >>
Looks better than an MS61 to me.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Would be awesome to see one of those 1860-O`s with chatter...
Here's an 1860-O in MS61, undoubtedly from the bags released in the early 1960's.
Jim >>
Looks better than an MS61 to me. >>
I agree. At least a 62. 61's are often UGLY. That coin is not.
-Paul
<< <i>Here are new orleans seated liberty dollar bags
Im guessing these were released in the 1960's, since once from the 1860's wouldn't be in such a decent condition.
Are you positive that's a Seated Liberty dollar bag? At that time the New Orleans "Mint" was not a U.S. Mint, but a U.S. Branch Mint, which was a formality adhered to in almost all mint documents of the era. It wouldn't be a U.S. Mint until 1873
<< <i>
<< <i>Here are new orleans seated liberty dollar bags
Im guessing these were released in the 1960's, since once from the 1860's wouldn't be in such a decent condition.
Are you positive that's a Seated Liberty dollar bag? At that time the New Orleans "Mint" was not a U.S. Mint, but a U.S. Branch Mint, which was a formality adhered to in almost all mint documents of the era. It wouldn't be a U.S. Mint until 1873 >>
http://www.holabirdamericana.com/dev/HKA_2008_Cat2/Bags.html
All the way at the bottom.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Here are new orleans seated liberty dollar bags
Im guessing these were released in the 1960's, since once from the 1860's wouldn't be in such a decent condition.
Are you positive that's a Seated Liberty dollar bag? At that time the New Orleans "Mint" was not a U.S. Mint, but a U.S. Branch Mint, which was a formality adhered to in almost all mint documents of the era. It wouldn't be a U.S. Mint until 1873 >>
http://www.holabirdamericana.com/dev/HKA_2008_Cat2/Bags.html
All the way at the bottom. >>
Interesting, although I'm pretty skeptical. Maybe I'll mention it to Fred and see what he says.
I suspect that the O Mint seated dollars came out of U S Treasury bags ($1000 face value), not the type pictured in an above post. Just an educated guess.
NJCC
Ive seen a carson city bag that was filled with 83 CC
<< <i>Coming up!!
Hahahaha! Yuckkkkkkk!
U.S. Treasury, Washington, D.C., $1,000
U.S. Mint, San Francisco, CA, $1,000 (various dates)
U.S. Mint, Carson City, $1,000
New Standard Silver Dollars, San Francisco (various dates)
U.S. Mint, Carson City, $10,000 Gold
U.S. Mint, Philadelphia, $5,000 gold
U.S. Mint, Denver, $5,000 gold
And others...
Keep in mind that the coins may have been shipped from their respective mints, in that Mint's bag, to the Treasury in Washington, opened and counted there, and then possibly put into a "Treasury" bag. I don't think anybody really knows what happened with the coins released from the Treasury in the early 1960s in that regard.
Of course, as Dennis Miller once said, "that's just my opinion, I could be wrong".
NJCC
<< <i>
<< <i>If I had a bag of unc 89-CCs I would not take up HRH on his offer. Instead I would quietly sell them over a VERY LONG period of time.
As for the 60-Os, they come baggy as all get out. I wouldn't be surprised if TDN has a couple clean gems tucked away, and it probably took a long time to find them. >>
A seated expert dealer told me, you can tell a hoard coin by the mint mark size and location. There are some 1859-O and-1860-O that ARE NOT from the mint hoards.
I think there may have been a FEW(like one or two) other seated dollars sold in GSA soft packs that were other dates (like 1868'/9 come to mind). >>
That is not correct. I have seen many of these hoard coins over the years, and I have never noticed any difference in the mint mark. The Mint was not going to use a reverse die until they had filled exactly one or two bags, and then throw it away.
The coins do tend to be heavily bag marked but fully lustrous. The slabbed pieces shown here is very typical of the hoard.
TD
<< <i>That is some very cool info HRH...Thank you for taking the time...
See that`s exactly the greatest thing about this forum when something like that is posted... Very cool
Would be awesome to see one of those 1860-O`s with chatter...
AB
I agree. Good questions and coins tend to bring out the giants in the field.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5