Fake Silver Bars with major brand hallmarks.

joefro · January 8, 2012 2:20PM

Beware!

Youtube link

BigRick · January 8, 2012 9:31PM

CaptHenway · January 8, 2012 9:53PM

Interesting. A specific gravity test would be very enlightening.

dantheman984 · January 8, 2012 10:11PM

They really do look like nice bars. Thanks for the heads up. Appreciate that.

PerryHall · January 8, 2012 10:18PM

Doesn't everyone use a big steel file to authenticate their bars? He claims it's zinc which has a much lower S.G. than silver but the weight of his bar is proper. I'm not convinced these are fake. Why waste your time making small silver bars when you can make a lot more money by making fake early U. S. coins? Also, there is an acid (I think it's nitric acid) for testing silver non-destructively.

Wingsrule · January 8, 2012 10:18PM

There are several of the flag-style bars on ebay at this very moment.

Edit (that was a pretty lame post #2000)

dantheman984 · January 8, 2012 10:23PM

<< There are several of the flag-style bars on ebay at this very moment.

Edit (that was a pretty lame post #2000)

>>

I looked them up on ebay and saw the flag bars but you really can`t tell they are fake until you get them in hand. Right?

CaptHenway · January 8, 2012 10:26PM

<< Doesn't everyone use a big steel file to authenticate their bars? He claims it's zinc which has a much lower S.G. than silver but the weight of his bar is proper. I'm not convinced these are fake. Why waste your time making small silver bars when you can make a lot more money by making fake early U. S. coins? Also, there is an acid (I think it's nitric acid) for testing silver non-destructively. >>

The demonstration was not very professional or convincing. A simple specific gravity test would be conclusive.

Wingsrule · January 8, 2012 10:27PM

On the ones I am referring to, the seller's descriptions stated they were silver plated. He also had some Krugs and Canadian gold maples (fake, not real). His auctions even stated that there was great resale potential with these bars/coins, until he was reported and changed the description.

Current auction #150719610737 - states they are layered right in the title.

Completed auction #150721825211 - check out the description.

CaptHenway · January 8, 2012 10:37PM

More information from the source of the video:

linky

guitarwes · January 8, 2012 11:59PM

So they use a little bit of gold in a fake silver bar and alot of copper and a touch of nickel. At least these will be worth a good bit when gold is at $5000 and copper is at $100.

TheBigB · January 9, 2012 12:09AM

I agree that the video production values were poor, but the bar's weight came in quite low in my opinion. Even my cheapest electronic scale has never been more than .1 gram off.

The author used good judgement in being suspicious when a large quantity of scarce bars appeared in his country.

He should have had the acid test kit to go along with the file.

joefro · January 9, 2012 1:17AM

He is a member on bullionstacker and said he will be posting more videos soon of coins and other tests. I agree there is not much you can do to tell if it's fake until it is in hand. To get the weight close, it looks like they have had to make the bars a little fatter. For now, I am only going to buy bars from the manufacturer or trusted sources. DEFINITELY no eBay sellers from China!

Timbuk3 · January 9, 2012 1:31AM

Much appreciated for the info.
Very valuable, now I need
to check my bars !!!

CaptHenway · January 9, 2012 2:10AM

<< I agree that the video production values were poor, but the bar's weight came in quite low in my opinion. Even my cheapest electronic scale has never been more than .1 gram off.

The author used good judgement in being suspicious when a large quantity of scarce bars appeared in his country.

He should have had the acid test kit to go along with the file. >>

Low? He reported 32.6 grams. A troy ounce is 31.1.

TheBigB · January 9, 2012 2:28AM

<< 

<< I agree that the video production values were poor, but the bar's weight came in quite low in my opinion. Even my cheapest electronic scale has never been more than .1 gram off.

The author used good judgement in being suspicious when a large quantity of scarce bars appeared in his country.

He should have had the acid test kit to go along with the file. >>

Low? He reported 32.6 grams. A troy ounce is 31.1. >>

Thanks for catching that Capt, the caffeine was slow in reaching my brain this morning.

CaptHenway · January 9, 2012 2:56AM

Lot more information at www.silverstackers.com

I have registered so that I can keep an eye on it.

Somebody there suggested that the fake 2012 Perth Mint silver dragons which have been reported could be counterfeited out of good silver and still be made at a profit.

piecesofme · January 9, 2012 3:52AM

The weight alone should've been the tell tale imo if he knows his scale was accurate. 1.5g MORE than what it should weigh? Do you think Mints aren't going to catch that? In just 16 bars, they would be giving away 1 oz. I think any Mints tolerance would be significantly tighter than that.

All just another reason to stick with 90% junk if you are doing a physical Silver play.

sumrtym · January 9, 2012 4:14AM

<< All just another reason to stick with 90% junk if you are doing a physical Silver play. >>

Really?
Better look at this.
Don't know about you, but just looking, that walking liberty half dollar looks pretty good to me. Lot of profit at $10 per coin half dollar slipping these in on 90% sales, or quarters, etc. Chinese are fabricating ALL designs, not just dollars / bust coins.

CaptHenway · January 9, 2012 5:23AM

At the risk of bashing a potentially innocent eBay seller, please check out this bar and the other items he has for sale. Same Sunshine design and same American flag design as on the report from Australia:

eBay link

Comments?

Wingsrule · January 9, 2012 5:52AM

Take a look at the link in the Capn's thread and compare it to current auction #150719610737. Notice the airtites they are held in. In both of these auctions, the corner radii are much tighter than 'regular' airtites. Coincidence? Paranoid? Perhaps...

Pokermandude · January 9, 2012 6:18AM

Also, Scottsdale silver bars aren't even rare. They are new bars and, in my opinion just overpriced from the wholesale site that offers them compared to similar size bars. Therefore they haven't permeated the market as much as other bars.

Personally, if I have a silver bar or coin that looks good/legit, and it passes my three tests, I have no qualms with thinking it's totally legit.

1- ring test. If it rings, it's likely good. If it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad though. Harmonics are affected by the shape of the item, among other things.
2- weight. Should never be as overweight as the guy's bar in this video, nor underweight.
3- size/density. If it weighs right, but is 30%+ larger in volume that a real one, obviously something isn't right.

If the dimensions/volume and the weight are correct, it's pretty much good. Would be difficult to make an alloy of the same density as silver. Lead is a possibility, but that would fail the ring test and would probably look not quite right since it would be plated or a drilled+filled larger bar. I had a 100oz Sunshine bar once, which had the sunshine design on the back as well as a band of reeding all around the outside edge. Would be pretty much impossible to drill out the center, fill it with lead, and fill the hole with silver while replacing the reeds perfectly.

piecesofme · January 9, 2012 6:55AM

Take a look at the link in the Capn's thread and compare it to current auction #150719610737. Notice the airtites they are held in. In both of these auctions, the corner radii are much tighter than 'regular' airtites. Coincidence? Paranoid? Perhaps...

The seller in the auction for 150719610737 clearly states that the bars are .999 fine LAYERED silver bars. I take that as being honest about it making it a point to say they are layered. Would someone who doesn't know the difference be fooled? Probably, but I feel the description is accurate.

Wingsrule · January 9, 2012 6:57AM

But the bar says one ounce .999

The guy in China making fakes also knows they are not real, but the next guy or gal may not.

OPA · January 9, 2012 7:45AM

Those phony flag bars have been around for a while. Yes, some sellers will identify them as layered, however, most will not.

piecesofme · January 9, 2012 7:53AM

The point I was trying to make was that eBay seller was describing it accurately.

I think the seller of this item, 320808633899, is actually being more deceptive than the "layered" seller.

'71 S is 40% silver, not just "silver" as described.

theDabbler · January 9, 2012 8:11AM

Since it hasn't come up in this thread yet, some methods for testing bullion:

For field testing and magnetic slide testing (more space required)

I'm trying to price magnets to make a slide - $40 - $70 - unless I buy from China.

OPA · January 9, 2012 9:35PM

<< Since it hasn't come up in this thread yet, some methods for testing bullion:

For field testing and magnetic slide testing (more space required)

I'm trying to price magnets to make a slide - $40 - $70 - unless I buy from China. >>

He should patent that slide ...

OnlyGoldIsMoney · January 11, 2012 8:09AM

<< 

<< I agree that the video production values were poor, but the bar's weight came in quite low in my opinion. Even my cheapest electronic scale has never been more than .1 gram off.

The author used good judgement in being suspicious when a large quantity of scarce bars appeared in his country.

He should have had the acid test kit to go along with the file. >>

Low? He reported 32.6 grams. A troy ounce is 31.1. >>

The 32.6 grams sounds altogether wrong for the Sunshine bar. I happened to have 4 Sunshine bars lying about. They ranged from 31.1 to 31.3 grams.