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The official NGC 1.0, 2.0, and 2.1 Slab Population Census!! 197 2.1's listed!

coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
edited July 3, 2021 2:51PM in U.S. Coin Forum
I was talking to Kurt (Kove) today at the FUN show, and we decided a census was much needed for the elusive 2.1 slabs. I will start us off at 10, which is the number that I have. So add yours here! Also, please post your slab numbers for research proposes! image


I just created a Google Doc with all of the known 2.1's in it. Please continue to post your finds here and I will add them to the census spreadsheet! As you can see, Drunner and I already have matched on two different submission numbers! image

I added a section at the top of the census that shows the percentage of the coins that have either green or gold stickers! image


Here's a 2.1. Note that the logo on the reverse is INSIDE the slab.



Again, Note that the logo on the reverse is on the INSIDE.



image


image




-Paul

Edited to add some cool facts from Oreville!


I asked to founder of NGC, John A., why NGC moved the logo from the inside to the outside of the plastic holder. I showed hime examples of both types of holders.

He replied that in 1987, after NGC went from the black to the all white holder, the plastic molding machine company who made the slabs for NGC complained that they were having great difficulty stamping the NGC logo onto the white core. Rejected white cores far outnumbered the acceptables ones. An emergency call to JA was made by the plastic molding company as to the serious problem. The company suggested moving the logo to the outside. John thought about it and said "why not?"

He admitted that in the early days, things were being done by the "seat of their pants" and they were still learing.



John Albanese remembered that the black slabs were in production for exactly 2 weeks (5 business days per week) @average 300 slabs per day. That meant 3000 black slabs wer made until they went to the all white slab with the gold foil logo on the inside of the outer shell. That lasted another 1 1/2 weeks or 7 days until the gold foil was moved to the outside of the slab. The production had increased to 500 slabs average per day with the gold foil on the inside of the slab times 7 days or 3500 slabs.
«13456

Comments

  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice Idea . . .

    10c. 1941-D MS65FB 121818-019
    50c. 1955 MS65 FL 121903-009
    $1 1885-O MS64 121064-015
    $1 1898-O MS64 123883-015


    More as they come . .

    Drunner
    (Doily Slut)
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,990 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please show a photo of this slab so we know exactly what to look for.
    Thanks!

    peacockcoins

  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Please show a photo of this slab so we know exactly what to look for.
    Thanks! >>




    I will update the first post later tonight with an image, and I will image my slabs once I'm home from school in a few weeks.

    Here's my 9:


    1882 S Morgan $1 NGC MS63 124203-002
    1883 O Morgan $1 NGC MS64 123883-007
    1924 P Huguenot NGC MS61 124618-011
    1925 P Lexington NGC MS63 123500-008
    1925 P Stone Mountain NGC MS65 127136-003
    1935 S Texas NGC MS64 121596-007
    1937 P Antietam NGC MS65 124874-004
    1936 P Mercury 10c NGC MS65 121818-004
    1949 P BTW Commem NGC MS64 121725-002






    -Paul
  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Paul for the indepth discussion
    on what to look for. Very interesting.
    Having the 2.1 encapsulated by yet
    another plastic tomb is just TOO funny !!!

    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • RayboRaybo Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Please show a photo of this slab so we know exactly what to look for.
    Thanks! >>




    image
  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭
    .
  • I've got a nicely toned 1904-0 Morgan dollar in a 2.1 holder MS-63.
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    See, this is why I wanted slab numbers. DRUNNER, we have a match!! Submission 121818! Both Mercs, mine is 004, yours 019! Very cool! image




    -Paul


  • << <i>50c. 1955 MS65 FL 121903-009 >>



    You may want to recheck this one Drunner. NGC wasn't designating Franklins as FBL at this time.
  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many happy BST transactions
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What to look for:

    -old gold stenciled pre-1990 style holder (no bar, no hologram code fatty holder)
    -lettering on the inside of the holder rather than the more commonly seen on the outside.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • I have a feeling you're going to have some NGC 2s posted here eventually where someone doesn't know the difference.
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have a feeling you're going to have some NGC 2s posted here eventually where someone doesn't know the difference. >>



    Agreed. Hopefully they'll post pictures or contact me if they are unsure. It is very easy to tell the difference if they read the description! image



    -Paul
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I sold a MS66 1913 5C Type One recently.... I do not have any pics, but could borrow it again for imaging.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    Added a few more coins to the Google Doc! image



    -Paul
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have a feeling you're going to have some NGC 2s posted here eventually where someone doesn't know the difference. >>



    I'm not so sure they are any less rare, honestly. Since I've been looking I've actually seen more 2.1 than 2.0. Go figure!
  • KoveKove Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭✭
    Finally got mine out of the vault:

    3CS 1859 MS 63 #121090-008
    5C 1879 PF 64 #121871-005
    5C 1909 MS 64 #121871-010
    10C 1889 PF 64 #124636-005
    10C 1944S MS 65 #121375-010
    50C 1928 MS 64 #121323-005 Hawaiian
    50C 1951 MS 64 #121725-009 BTW
    S$1 1923D MS 64 #123434-010
    S$1 1926D MS 64 #124166-021

    Here's a nice one of mine (2.1 with internal embossing, no shadows)

    image
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Finally got mine out of the vault:

    3CS 1859 MS 63 #121090-008
    5C 1879 PF 64 #121871-005
    5C 1909 MS 64 #121871-010
    10C 1889 PF 64 #124636-005
    10C 1944S MS 65 #121375-010
    50C 1928 MS 64 #121323-005 Hawaiian
    50C 1951 MS 64 #121725-009 BTW
    S$1 1923D MS 64 #123434-010
    S$1 1926D MS 64 #124166-021

    Here's a nice one of mine (2.1 with internal embossing, no shadows)

    image >>



    Thanks Kurt! I updated the excel file! A lot of your coins match with the ones Julian has on eBay right now, and your BTW matches with mine! image


    -Paul


    -Paul
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    Added a CAC section! As you can see, over 10% of the coins received a GOLD CAC sticker, 800 times the average that should have gotten it! image



    -Paul
  • I am in Atlanta all week Paul so I will provide my numbers once I return. Did you win that 1884-O that I told you about on ebay? It sold for above my $225 bid and I wasnt paying higher for an MS63 morgan lol
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I am in Atlanta all week Paul so I will provide my numbers once I return. Did you win that 1884-O that I told you about on ebay? It sold for above my $225 bid and I wasnt paying higher for an MS63 morgan lol >>



    Naw, I honestly didn't want to spend THAT much. Plus I didn't want to screw you over if you bid higher! Sounds good! image



    -Paul
  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll check the 1955 Frankie when it comes back from CAC tomorrow or Saturday. I show it in my records as FL, not sure why I would have put that if it wasn't, but my curiousity is aroused!!

    Oh . . . it CAC-d Green.

    My 1941-D Merc (2.1) and 1944-S Merc (2.0) went CAC-Gold.

    Drunner
    Doily Slut and 2.0/2.1 Poser
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll check the 1955 Frankie when it comes back from CAC tomorrow or Saturday. I show it in my records as FL, not sure why I would have put that if it wasn't, but my curiousity is aroused!!

    Oh . . . it CAC-d Green.

    My 1941-D Merc (2.1) and 1944-S Merc (2.0) went CAC-Gold.

    Drunner
    Doily Slut and 2.0/2.1 Poser >>




    Well Drunner, I was way ahead of ya. Already had your coins in the census as CAC'd Green and Gold! I used CAC's search feature earlier today to look up the coins. image



    -Paul
  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭✭✭
    5 out of the 49 (so far) have gold CAC stickers, I wasn't expecting that.
    Many happy BST transactions
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>5 out of the 49 (so far) have gold CAC stickers, I wasn't expecting that. >>



    Me either. And the ones that aren't stickered just haven't been sent in yet! image



    -Paul
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    few of my 2.1 went gold as well.

    I will submit a partial listing when I have a chance.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • I just picked this one up .

    image
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wasn't aware that the logo on the 2.1 is on the inside.
    The logo on the pictured WLH is embossed on the outside, so is this a 2.2?
    I have a 1924 Peace dollar in a 4 holder, somewhere. Plain white insert not sure if the logo is in or outside the holder.

    image
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    morgansforever. You have a NGC 2.0. Not rare but still scarce and very collectible.

    I would say that the PCGS doily and the NGC 2.0 pops are about the same.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I just picked this one up .

    image >>




    I just checked out the auction. This is a 2.0, not a 2.1, and I will have to remove it from the census. Please make sure to check that the embossed logo is on the INSIDE of the slab. There shouldn't be a shadow underneath it.

    Here's another 2.1 of mine:


    image

    image




    -Paul
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    I spent an hour or so hunting through Teletrade history and found 18 2.1's out of 1000 marked as "old slabs," or 1.8%. Mind you that's out of OLD SLABS. I also found 4 NGC Blacks. I added all the 2.1s to the census, but when I cross referenced, only 4 were new. So there's now 57!



    -Paul
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is the last part of John Merz's collection which was partially purchased by me in 2009 and the the remainder sold elsewhere as I simply could not swing buying them all.

    the more expensive ones were auctioned at Teletrade as I recall.


    This grouping of NGC 2.1 was purchased by me from John Merz
    1884   3CN PF-65  #121417-001 all are CAC green except where noted below:
    1871   H10 MS-63  #121732-008


    1931-S 05c MS-65  #121758-002
    1916-D 25C MS-63  #121781-012
    1943   50C MS-64  #121781-016
    1925-D 2.5 MS-63  #124711-022
    1927   $20 MS-61  #121196-005
    1865   3CN MS-62  #121871-001 gold
    1889   G$1 MS-61  #122401-025 gold
    1942   10C PF-65  #124087-010



    GREEN CAC STICKERED NGC 2.1 not purchased by me
    1859   3CS MS-63  #121090-008
    1909   05c MS-64  #121871-010
    1916 05c PF-65 #121417-004
    1869   10c PF-65  #121781-004
    1889   10c PF-64  #124636-005
    1906-S 10c MS-65  #121781-008
    1920   25C MS-64  #121781-013  
    1908-S 50C MS-64  #121781-016  
    1882   T$1 PF-65  #121734-016
    1904   S$1 PF-64  #121781-018
    1928  H50c MS-64  #121323-005





    GOLD CAC STICKERED NGC 2.1 not purchased by me

    1879   05c PF-64  #121871-005
    1896   10C MS-64  #121781-006
    1906   10C PF-65  #121781-007
    1906  $2.5 MS-63  #121855-011


    I now recall that I did buy a few of them on TT as I was able to obtain the funds to buy some additional slabs later on.
    It was too late for John to withdraw the lots from TT at that point even though there were no bids on them at that point.


    Additional NGC 2.1 acquired over the years.

    Additions posted 2/8/2012
    1876 10c MS-65 #121870-025 green (already stickered from CRO)
    1881-S S$1 MS-63 #124512-001 gold (already stickered purchased - private sale)
    1884-O S$1 MS-63 #124464-004 gold (made sticker - looking up how acquired)










    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, updated!!




    -Paul
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    realone,

    I did not have unlimited funds and was focused on trying to obtain the least expensive NGC 2.1 slabs and not spend more than $1000 for each slab unless they were $20 double eagles (bullion related).

    Some of these slabs were well over $2000 each and I tried to maximize buying as many different slabs as I could without running out of money. the trade dollar was very close to $10K and that was more money than the cost of all 25 of the slabs I bought from John Merz COMBINED.

    Also once I had, purchased one commemorative or one type coin, I was satisfied type coin wise.

    Additionally, John was starting to slow down, got very ill and communication became a problem between us. he thought I was not interested in any more of them when I was indeed interested in a few more of them. he gave me the TT information on the ones he was selling and I indeed buy a few more of them on TT, some at lower prices than I had offered him and others at higher prices.

    I was not trying to buy them all up. My attitude was once I got to 20 of these slabs, I was satisfied. I think I ended up with around 30 possibly even 35 of them.

    had I bought them all, then no one else would have any fun and I wouldn't be able to get coinkid to do all this wonderful charts he is doing!image
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • KoveKove Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭✭
    I, for one, am glad oreville didn't gobble them all up, as I won about a half dozen of these off TT when they went up. However, I just couldn't bring myself to spring for the proof morgan or trade dollar. I do very much enjoy the ones I bought, though. I like these 2.1s as much as my NGC blacks.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coinkid,

    Some of the 121781-0xx and 121871-0xx numbers are probably transposed and should be corrected. John and I had some difficulties in typing and proofreading them out.

    I can double check them or anyone can double check them.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Coinkid,

    Some of the 121781-0xx and 121871-0xx numbers are probably transposed and should be corrected. John and I had some difficulties in typing and proofreading them out.

    I can double check them or anyone can double check them. >>




    I'll take a look, thanks!



    -Paul
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    Fixed the problems, has one duplicate! image


    -Paul
  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 7,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This sold on ebay yesterday for $279

    image
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This sold on ebay yesterday for $279

    image >>




    Not a 2.1. Check out the back of the slab, and notice the embossed logo is on the OUTSIDE of the slab.


    Thanks though!


    -Paul
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    i've seen the google doc for the 2.1 but what about 2.0?
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • hiijackerhiijacker Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭
    Something is unclear. Why are you calling the ones with the logo inside the the holder 2.1, if they came out first?? Shouldn't you call that 2.0, and the ones with the logo on the outside 2.1?
    Buyer of all vintage Silver Bars. PM me
    Cashback from Mr. Rebates
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,282 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Perhaps because they were numbered as they were noticed, rather than by emission sequence??

    A lot of the "generations" are numbered that way and people are hesitant to rock the boat.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    thanks for TTT this thread. i fergot boot it.

    i'll go through the ones i have to see if any can be added.
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Something is unclear. Why are you calling the ones with the logo inside the the holder 2.1, if they came out first?? Shouldn't you call that 2.0, and the ones with the logo on the outside 2.1? >>

    The numbering is based on the "standard" reference by Conder101. The challenge with creating a reference that sequentially numbers items in a chronological manner is when a new item is "discovered" and it is out of order. The new item must be added into numbering and unless the "author" is willing to renumber everything subsequent, the new item will remain "out of order."
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces

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