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Will pcgs remove copper spots on gold?

superpsychmdsuperpsychmd Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Anyone?

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  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i don't know if they do or not, but i don't think they remove them. NCS does...someone back me up on that.

    as for removing them...a trained eye will be able to see where the spot once was. so, you can never truly remove it. that's my opinion after seeing some "conserved" coins.
  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of gold collectors don't mind copper spotting, as it shows a level of originality. I personally would leave it alone.
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>NCS does...someone back me up on that. >>



    backed up
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A lot of gold collectors don't mind copper spotting, as it shows a level of originality. I personally would leave it alone. >>



    A lot of gold collectors hate copper spots and consider them to be negative eye appeal.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BaseballAbsBaseballAbs Posts: 2,621 ✭
    Call NCS.
    Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.
  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,103 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>A lot of gold collectors don't mind copper spotting, as it shows a level of originality. I personally would leave it alone. >>



    A lot of gold collectors hate copper spots and consider them to be negative eye appeal. >>




    True, and if it's common date gold that is readily available with or without copper spotting, why not just find a piece that suits your taste.
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942 ✭
    PCGS must be able to do conservation work to support their guarantees, just under the RADAR.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you spend the money to have the copper spot “removed” there is a chance that it will come back in anywhere from a few months to a couple of years. Copper spots result when the 90% gold 10% copper alloy is not perfectly mixed. The spots are like a brown copper cent. Many times these spots are deeper than just skin deep and are likely to return.

    Unless the spot is really ugly, I’d leave it alone. A natural looking gold coin is easier to sell these days than one that has dipped, which often looks pale compared to an old gold coin with original toning and skin.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>A lot of gold collectors don't mind copper spotting, as it shows a level of originality. I personally would leave it alone. >>



    A lot of gold collectors hate copper spots and consider them to be negative eye appeal. >>



    ...copper spots are..............................
























    ...SUBJECTIVE!......image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • raysrays Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS will sometimes remove things under "spot review". I had an Indian Eagle that turned greenish and dull in it's holder. PCGS dipped it and it was back to its old shiny self.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can you post a picture?? I like copper toning on gold as a sign of originality........ image

    image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think he means spots. They can get kinda #^$#% if left alone
    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • GOWYOGOWYO Posts: 141 ✭✭


    << <i>Can you post a picture?? I like copper toning on gold as a sign of originality........ image

    The coin that started this post was in a discussion between me and the poster about this spot on the bustline of this St. Gaudens coin. Thoughts?

    image
    Successful BST with : Wondercoin, DenverDave
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't bother me. Looks like a mole on a supermodel. image

    I'd rather have a small original spot covering 1% of the coin rather than a stripped look to 99% of the coin.

    But, that's just my opinion.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The copper spot on that 1908-D Saint is insignificant and that coin shouldn't be messed with. Enjoy it as is or sell it to someone who will. A few small copper spots don't bother me but I've seen double eagles with numerous large dark brown copper spots that really impacted the eye appeal in a negative way.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's a very minor spot and I don't think it would bother most collectors.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even if you go to the time and expense, it's still a MS63 Saint with no real value added.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i say leave it alone too. if they remove it, you'll see a break in the luster there and perhaps some discoloration or polishing there. you know where the spot is now... you'll still look there and see the spot but the copper will be gone. leave it as is. sell it if it bothers you and replace it with a spot free coin.
  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you spend the money to have the copper spot “removed” there is a chance that it will come back in anywhere from a few months to a couple of years. Copper spots result when the 90% gold 10% copper alloy is not perfectly mixed. The spots are like a brown copper cent. Many times these spots are deeper than just skin deep and are likely to return.

    Unless the spot is really ugly, I’d leave it alone. A natural looking gold coin is easier to sell these days than one that has dipped, which often looks pale compared to an old gold coin with original toning and skin. >>



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dipping will not remove copper spots image

    GrandAm image
    GrandAm :)
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If you spend the money to have the copper spot “removed” there is a chance that it will come back in anywhere from a few months to a couple of years. Copper spots result when the 90% gold 10% copper alloy is not perfectly mixed. The spots are like a brown copper cent. Many times these spots are deeper than just skin deep and are likely to return.

    Unless the spot is really ugly, I’d leave it alone. A natural looking gold coin is easier to sell these days than one that has dipped, which often looks pale compared to an old gold coin with original toning and skin. >>



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dipping will not remove copper spots image

    GrandAm image >>



    That's also been my experience---dipping lightens them but they're still there and still visible.





    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this not essentially what happens under the Spot Review?
    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I sent in a 2008 American Buffalo PR70DCAM into PCGS for spot review with a copper spot. The coin came back without the spot, I was happy.
  • superpsychmdsuperpsychmd Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭
    Glad there was some clarification on the question. Now, someone who appreciates originality should buy this gent's coin! I gotta get some sleep and dream about flowing hair large cents being on sale at walmart for 2 bucks each!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>A lot of gold collectors don't mind copper spotting, as it shows a level of originality. I personally would leave it alone. >>



    A lot of gold collectors hate copper spots and consider them to be negative eye appeal. >>



    I think the majority of sophisticated gold collectors would prefer original surfaces with a minor amount of spotting. Surfaces trump spots imo.
    There are relatively few US gold coins where the spotting is so gross as to severely impact the eye appeal and value of the coin (ie <5%). And when
    it comes to mildly spotted rarer date gold in choice or gem condition, the copper spots come with the territory and are almost never considered a negative.
    Check out the spots on some of Dr. Duckor's Saints at FUN. If anything, that spotting is a badge of honor and proof of original surfaces. CAC is a ready buyer
    of "spotted" $20's, even the badly spotted ones. I recall having a 1903 $20 in MS65 that CAC'd and it had dozens of copper spots (ie had the measles). While
    those may have been distracting to some, the orig surfaces glowed under light toning.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>If you spend the money to have the copper spot “removed” there is a chance that it will come back in anywhere from a few months to a couple of years. Copper spots result when the 90% gold 10% copper alloy is not perfectly mixed. The spots are like a brown copper cent. Many times these spots are deeper than just skin deep and are likely to return.

    Unless the spot is really ugly, I’d leave it alone. A natural looking gold coin is easier to sell these days than one that has dipped, which often looks pale compared to an old gold coin with original toning and skin. >>



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dipping will not remove copper spots image

    GrandAm image >>



    That's also been my experience---dipping lightens them but they're still there and still visible. >>



    NCS zapped one for me that was on an Indian $2.50. It was a large dark spot that was on the bottom part of the Indian's neck, and I couldn't get a bite on the coin despite the fact that the technical grade was MS-64. NCS gave it a bath, sent it over to NGC where it got the MS-64 grade, and I was able to sell the coin for close to MS-64 Gray Sheet bid.

    The spots can be zapped. The trouble is, will they come back?

    Some of the ugliest gold coins around a few of the pieces that were salvaged and then “curated” off the SS Central America. Some of those coins are truly ugly with brown spots all over them. I saw this coming years a go when I handled a few of those pieces.

    Today the coins that have not “gone bad” are okay. They have had enough time in the air to show that they are stable. I’m not sure what NCS can do for the ones that have got SS Central America “small pox,” but I’ll tell you those coins are almost unsaleable given the way they look.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • HighReliefHighRelief Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS will take the grade down one point if the copper spotting looks like this.


    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PCGS will take the grade down one point if the copper spotting looks like this.


    image >>



    Wow!!! I never saw a PCGS with a net market grade and the reason both listed on the label.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>PCGS will take the grade down one point if the copper spotting looks like this. >>



    Wow!!! I never saw a PCGS with a net market grade and the reason both listed on the label. >>


    Same here. That's pretty cool. G1745?
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,103 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>PCGS will take the grade down one point if the copper spotting looks like this. >>



    Wow!!! I never saw a PCGS with a net market grade and the reason both listed on the label. >>


    Same here. That's pretty cool. G1745?
    Lance. >>



    So does this coin get 65 money, 64 or somewhere in between?
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • coinman23885coinman23885 Posts: 1,126


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>PCGS will take the grade down one point if the copper spotting looks like this. >>



    Wow!!! I never saw a PCGS with a net market grade and the reason both listed on the label. >>


    Same here. That's pretty cool. G1745?
    Lance. >>



    So does this coin get 65 money, 64 or somewhere in between? >>



    If it were me, I would send it to NCS and have it reslabbed (presumptively) in a MS65 holder.
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    I dont think anyone should attemp to remove copper spots to improve a coin, since this
    a natural part of the coin alloy and not a foreign material such as PVC.

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