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Question for the dealers here...

erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
So there is a coin dealer I am trying to work with about the purchase/trade of a couple of coins. Both of them came from either Heritage or Teletrade fairly recently and I can see what he paid for them. What is a fair price to pay in terms of mark up to a customer? Currently he is asking about double, which I think is a bit high.

Comments

  • llafoellafoe Posts: 7,220 ✭✭
    A fair price to both parties is the fair market value of a coin.

    If I buy a coin for $100 and the FMV is $200... should I sell it for cost + 10%? cost + 20%? $200? FMV - 10%? FMV - 20%?
    WANTED: Cincinnati Reds TEAM Cards
  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it depends on the $ level you're talking about. % would be different (to me) on a $100 coin vs. a $1,000 coin vs. a $5,000 coin.
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A fair price to both parties is the fair market value of a coin.

    If I buy a coin for $100 and the FMV is $200... should I sell it for cost + 10%? cost + 20%? $200? FMV - 10%? FMV - 20%? >>



    I agree with Llafoe. If you found an AU 1955 doubled die Lincoln cent in your change, what would you sell it for? Double the cost would be 2c. You'd be leaving money on the table at 2c. Fair Market Value is about $1,600. The markup percentage at $1,600 is about 16,000,000 percent. Sounds like a lot, but it is just market value.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588
    Double the price of TT or Heritage is exorbitant. Go somewhere else. There are very few bargains on those sites so why pay him double the value?
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 25,014 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What am I missing out on at Heritage? Do coins sell for 1/2 their value at auction?

    Guess I better start cherrypicking them!

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are they significantly rare enough that others won't come around soon? Market value and fair price is one thing, but knowing they likely weren't purchased cheap, and then are being marked up 2X tells me wait for the next auction and bid on them yourself. The exception would be if we are talking about either an inexpensive item or very scarce item. Then it may be best just to pull the trigger now.
    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let him know you know what he got them for if you have not already, and negotiate from there.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • mingotmingot Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Let him know you know what he got them for if you have not already, and negotiate from there.

    WS >>



    Be tactful.

    Letting someone know that you know their cost can put them on the defensive really quick if you're not delicate about it.
    Sell me a coin or three!
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am always amazed when someone invokes 'fair' in anything. Fair, as a concept, is a western idea..and generally used to try and shame other(s) into giving up something. Fair is not fair.. it is pleading for something when one does not want to compete/pay/deal with the reality they are faced with. Now, that being said, negotiating is always permissible and usually expected. May not get a deal, but worth a try. If I have a product for sale, I will try to get the best price possible - unless I am liquidating, and then it would be cost plus a small percentage to cover inventory carrying costs. So, either negotiate, buy, or pass. Cheers, RickO
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,420 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Double the price of TT or Heritage is exorbitant. Go somewhere else. There are very few bargains on those sites so why pay him double the value? >>



    Good point. Major auction prices for coins are the market prices with very few exceptions. Sounds like this dealer is trying to bury you in these coins.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dollarsandcentsdollarsandcents Posts: 486 ✭
    The price that the dealer paid to acquire the coins is not relevant. Finding a value that is agreeable to both the buyer and the seller is the only thing that matters.
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
    They can mark it up as much as they want and if you want to whine about it, don't buy it. Plain and simple. Remember a few years ago we had a similar instance here of someone whining because HLRC marked something double what was paid at auction. It turned out that Harry had been willing to pay 50% more than he had to pay to win it. Had he won at his number, his price would have been perfectly "fair". Same kind of deal here, you had a chance to buy it in auction, you chose not to, now you either need to pay up, or quit whining.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 38,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    His cost is irrelevent to what a buyer will pay. Offer him what you are willing to pay.

    When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,429 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that a coin should be sold for 'market value' and has absolutely nothing to do with a seller's markup.

    Do your research, know what the coin is trading for in the marketplace and then decide how much you want to discount or add onto the market price.

    If the seller's price is too high from your estimate, then you simply walk away and then don't be concerned about his or her markup.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • Mission16Mission16 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭
    A fair price is whatever you and he agree on. There is no formula. Offer what you feel you want to pay. If he accepts, that is the fair price.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,420 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do your research, know what the coin is trading for in the marketplace........ >>



    That's what he did when he discovered what the dealer paid for the coins.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So there is a coin dealer I am trying to work with about the purchase/trade of a couple of coins. Both of them came from either Heritage or Teletrade fairly recently and I can see what he paid for them. What is a fair price to pay in terms of mark up to a customer? Currently he is asking about double, which I think is a bit high. >>

    pass...buy another example
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭
    What are the coins?
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The price that the dealer paid to acquire the coins is not relevant. Finding a value that is agreeable to both the buyer and the seller is the only thing that matters. >>


    image
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • g048406g048406 Posts: 247


    << <i>What am I missing out on at Heritage? Do coins sell for 1/2 their value at auction?

    Guess I better start cherrypicking them!

    bob

    Q]

    Good luck with Heritage and TT.....right now I have a 1797 half dime for sale at $2395 that I paid $2760 for at a recent Heritage auction. I also have an 1876-cc Trade dollar at $1444 that I paid $1610 for at Heritage, I just sold an 1811 half cent for $1875 that I paid $2300 for at Heritage..........
    The days of finding good deals at Heritage and TT are basically over. The word is out, everybody knows about Heritage and TT.image
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So there is a coin dealer I am trying to work with about the purchase/trade of a couple of coins. Both of them came from either Heritage or Teletrade fairly recently and I can see what he paid for them. What is a fair price to pay in terms of mark up to a customer? Currently he is asking about double, which I think is a bit high. >>



    I tend to agree that 2x is high.

    However, paying 2x for a common, say, Franlin in 64 FBL is quite different from paying 2x for a more rare/esoteric item that comes around once every blue moon.

    The other factor that comes into play is the market value of the coin in question -- did the auction go for a very low price and the value is really closer to the 2x in the first place?

    So the coin we're talking about (and its market value relative to the auction price) matters to the discussion.... Mike (who is not a dealer)
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    There is no set markup for reselling coins. If you are willing to pay the dealer's current asking price then buy it. If you believe the new price is too high then look for a better deal elsewhere.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    What are the coins? This can really only be evaluated on a case by case basis.
  • Bankerbob56Bankerbob56 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I am always amazed when someone invokes 'fair' in anything. Fair, as a concept, is a western idea..and generally used to try and shame other(s) into giving up something. Fair is not fair.. it is pleading for something when one does not want to compete/pay/deal with the reality they are faced with. Now, that being said, negotiating is always permissible and usually expected. May not get a deal, but worth a try. If I have a product for sale, I will try to get the best price possible - unless I am liquidating, and then it would be cost plus a small percentage to cover inventory carrying costs. So, either negotiate, buy, or pass. Cheers, RickO >>





    image


    My children have always been forbidden to use the word "fair" except when using it as a noun!
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.....

    Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
  • littlebearlittlebear Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am always amazed when someone invokes 'fair' in anything. Fair, as a concept, is a western idea..and generally used to try and shame other(s) into giving up something. Fair is not fair.. it is pleading for something when one does not want to compete/pay/deal with the reality they are faced with. Now, that being said, negotiating is always permissible and usually expected. May not get a deal, but worth a try. If I have a product for sale, I will try to get the best price possible - unless I am liquidating, and then it would be cost plus a small percentage to cover inventory carrying costs. So, either negotiate, buy, or pass. Cheers, RickO >>






    That's it in a nutshell. Well said, Ricko!


    Larry L.


    image
    Autism Awareness: There is no limit to the good you can do, if you don't care who gets the credit.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭


    << <i>They can mark it up as much as they want and if you want to whine about it, don't buy it. Plain and simple. Remember a few years ago we had a similar instance here of someone whining because HLRC marked something double what was paid at auction. It turned out that Harry had been willing to pay 50% more than he had to pay to win it. Had he won at his number, his price would have been perfectly "fair". Same kind of deal here, you had a chance to buy it in auction, you chose not to, now you either need to pay up, or quit whining. >>




    Wow, you two have some sort of history?


    Good for you.
  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942 ✭


    << <i>What are the coins? This can really only be evaluated on a case by case basis. >>



    I agree, the OP wants information, but is unwilling to give any.
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, as it always repeated time after time when this subject comes up, and many folks jump on the person asking the question. The dealer could have got it below market value. and is charging market value. But he could just the same be trying to shank the guy in price.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you think they are worth what they sold for on Heritage or teletade recently why didn't you buy them there then?

    Sometimes even a blind dog finds a bone.

    image
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The price that the dealer paid to acquire the coins is not relevant. Finding a value that is agreeable to both the buyer and the seller is the only thing that matters. >>



    Agreed. The fact that you know his cost just gives you a small advantage.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let me provide another example. The 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle sets were sold by the Mint for $300 each. They went up to $800 each and now are around $650 each. Is anyone bashing the sellers for their high margin on this item?

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Let me provide another example. The 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle sets were sold by the Mint for $300 each. They went up to $800 each and now are around $650 each. Is anyone bashing the sellers for their high margin on this item? >>




    And many want Paypal "Gift" for payment. image
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't care what someone pays for a coin. Frankly I don't want to know for the very reasons you are asking! I recently bought a coin from another dealer for 50% more than he paid for it on ebay! He beat me to the punch....but there is still room on the table. I recently had a friend buy back 2 coins in a heritage auction for me because I didn't like the way they were presented and it was only 2% more than the buyback fee heritage demanded. I'm sure I will get the same attitude as yours from buyers in the future as they will always be in Heritage's archives....my answer is they can sit in my saftey deposit box until I die or someone is willing to pay what I think the coins are worth!
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭


    << <i> The 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle sets were sold by the Mint for $300 each. They went up to $800 each and now are around $650 each. Is anyone bashing the sellers for their high margin on this item? >>




    Substitute 'dealer' for 'seller' and you bet your bippy you'd be hearing some bashing.







    Good for you.
  • UtahCoinUtahCoin Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>A fair price to both parties is the fair market value of a coin.

    If I buy a coin for $100 and the FMV is $200... should I sell it for cost + 10%? cost + 20%? $200? FMV - 10%? FMV - 20%? >>



    I agree with Llafoe. If you found an AU 1955 doubled die Lincoln cent in your change, what would you sell it for? Double the cost would be 2c. You'd be leaving money on the table at 2c. Fair Market Value is about $1,600. The markup percentage at $1,600 is about 16,000,000 percent. Sounds like a lot, but it is just market value. >>



    Ditto what they said. I have an $8,000 coin I cherry picked for about $270, so what's it worth? $8,000. If I goof up and pay $100 for a $10 coin, what's it worth. $10. A coin is worth what it's worth, regardless of what I paid for it.
    I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
    Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, I had to work alot the past day and a half and couldnt get back to my own post. This is a busy this time of year for me. The coin in question is a MS67* Washington with exceptional toning. Not only is toning hard to estimate pricing when its an attractively toned coin, but the star for exceptional eye appeal. The market recently determined the price when it sold on Heritage and in one of their special auctions, so Im sure that it didnt fly under the radar. I dont have a problem paying a premium for a nice conditional rarity with exceptional toning but doubling the price in a couple of weeks???
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What are the coins? This can really only be evaluated on a case by case basis. >>



    well said

    maybe they were bought at 1/2 price

    wouldn't be the first time from big auction firms
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • derrybderryb Posts: 38,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Market sets the actual selling price until a Coin Czar determines otherwise.

    When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 38,528 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The price that the dealer paid to acquire the coins is not relevant. Finding a value that is agreeable to both the buyer and the seller is the only thing that matters. >>



    Agreed. The fact that you know his cost just gives you a small advantage. >>


    Or a large dislike for the seller. image

    When gold and silver move together, it signals the coming end of fiat money.

  • Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭
    After giving it some thought, I suppose the only answer is we really don't have enough information. The obvious question is which price, the auction or the for-sale, is more in line to what examples of that coin have sold for? In other words, is one of those out of line? (And yes, there is the question of how much we are talking about, as we should expect a greater percent attempted profit the lower the value of the coin is.)
    --

    Ed. S.

    (EJS)

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