Help : Determining grade of raw card !!!

svtPONY95

I will be listing this card on the board for a friend and need help grading this card accurately. Please chime in !!!

TonyC

With small wrinkles, the best it can be is a 4. Looks like a strong 6 or a weak 7 otherwise.

jeff8877

Best a card can get with a wrinkle is EX 5 not vg/ex 4 as stated in earlier post. Nice card, good luck.

Jeff

yankeeno7

I concur...but I think it would get it's psa 5. Corners look 6ish but with the wrinkle, I think it would still land a 5

TonyC

<< <i>Best a card can get with a wrinkle is EX 5 not vg/ex 4 as stated in earlier post. Nice card, good luck.

Jeff >>



This is true, but if you read the PSA guidelines, they don't even allow a wrinkle at EX 5, but sometimes they will give an EX 5 with a wrinkle (always been a mystery to me):

EX 5: Excellent
On PSA EX-5 cards, very minor rounding of the corners is becoming evident. Surface wear or printing defects are more visible. There may be minor chipping on edges. Loss of original gloss will be more apparent. Focus of picture may be slightly out-of-register. Several light scratches may be visible upon close inspection, but do not detract from the appeal of the card. Card may show some off-whiteness of borders. Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.

VG-EX 4: Very Good-Excellent
A PSA VG-EX 4 card's corners may be slightly rounded. Surface wear is noticeable but modest. The card may have light scuffing or light scratches. Some original gloss will be retained. Borders may be slightly off-white. A light crease may be visible. Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.

jeffcbay

high-end 5

daddymc

I'd agree with the 5. It's a nice looking mid-grade card.

Probstein123

4.5

jeff8877

Tony...a wrinkle and a crease are not the same. A wrinkle affects only one side of a card while a crease goes through the card and is visible on both sides. The best a card with a crease can get is a 4.

Jeff

itzagoner

5.5

otwcards

The card will probably grade a PSA 5, but will sell for closer to PSA 6 money...

Bear48

two surface creases = 4

brendanb438

Probably better to sell the card raw instead of subbing it. Nice card, sucks such a little wrinkle knocks it down so much.

SidePocket

Great card for a raw set. Centering is very very nice.

orioles93

I would say a 4. Probably better to sell raw.

ldferg

5

bking

<< <i>Tony...a wrinkle and a crease are not the same. A wrinkle affects only one side of a card while a crease goes through the card and is visible on both sides. The best a card with a crease can get is a 4.

Jeff >>



Agree with this completely. This is one of the areas that PSA really falls down in their resources section. They need to show more examples of what they mean by nebulous terms like wrinkles. Of course, that would be hard to show in a web image as they are generally only visible at an angle and really don't detract from the card enough (IMO) to warrant such a grade drop).

I say the card could get a 5.5, but more likely a 5

svtPONY95

What is the raw condition of this card ? For example...excellent, very good to excellent, near mint ...

TonyC

<< <i>

<< <i>Tony...a wrinkle and a crease are not the same. A wrinkle affects only one side of a card while a crease goes through the card and is visible on both sides. The best a card with a crease can get is a 4.

Jeff >>



Agree with this completely. This is one of the areas that PSA really falls down in their resources section. They need to show more examples of what they mean by nebulous terms like wrinkles. Of course, that would be hard to show in a web image as they are generally only visible at an angle and really don't detract from the card enough (IMO) to warrant such a grade drop).

I say the card could get a 5.5, but more likely a 5 >>



I just wanted to clarify what I originally said:

I know that PSA will give a card a 5 with a wrinkle, and I know that a wrinkle (I like to call it a hairline crease) is slightly different than an actual "crease." My gripe, like what bking said, is that PSA doesn't have this as a stated policy, it is kind of just something that people in "the know" know.

As an aside, when I give condition estimates on raw cards, to me a hairline crease or a crease knocks it below ex; I know this differs from PSA, but when I think of "ex," I expect the card to have no crease of any kind, hairline or not.

The whole issue of "crease" versus "hairline crease" versus "no crease at all" is a little fuzzy, I think there are a few different opinions out there. This is issue is probably deserving of its own thread.

daddymc

Based on a grade of 5, the raw condition would be described as EX - Excellent.

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Tony...a wrinkle and a crease are not the same. A wrinkle affects only one side of a card while a crease goes through the card and is visible on both sides. The best a card with a crease can get is a 4.

Jeff >>



Agree with this completely. This is one of the areas that PSA really falls down in their resources section. They need to show more examples of what they mean by nebulous terms like wrinkles. Of course, that would be hard to show in a web image as they are generally only visible at an angle and really don't detract from the card enough (IMO) to warrant such a grade drop).

I say the card could get a 5.5, but more likely a 5 >>



I just wanted to clarify what I originally said:

I know that PSA will give a card a 5 with a wrinkle, and I know that a wrinkle (I like to call it a hairline crease) is slightly different than an actual "crease." My gripe, like what bking said, is that PSA doesn't have this as a stated policy, it is kind of just something that people in "the know" know.

As an aside, when I give condition estimates on raw cards, to me a hairline crease or a crease knocks it below ex; I know this differs from PSA, but when I think of "ex," I expect the card to have no crease of any kind, hairline or not.

The whole issue of "crease" versus "hairline crease" versus "no crease at all" is a little fuzzy, I think there are a few different opinions out there. This is issue is probably deserving of its own thread. >>



I use the definition that I read somewhere a few years ago - a wrinkle is just an issue with the surface paper, whereas a crease affects the card stock itself.

gecko109

Here is how you determine the grade:

Step 1, list it as an 8, and sell it to itzagoner.
Step 2, wait for him to open a claim on you and send the card back.
Step 3, list it as a 7, and sell it to itzagoner.
Step 4, wait for him to open a claim on you and send the card back.

Just repeat above steps, lowering the stated grade each time and when itzagoner doesnt file a claim, then you have the grade!

TonyC

Here is an old thread about the difference between a "wrinkle" and a "crease," but it doesn't really discuss whether a "wrinkle" is a 4 or a 5.

"Wrinkle" vs. Crease

bking

<< <i>Here is an old thread about the difference between a "wrinkle" and a "crease," but it doesn't really discuss whether a "wrinkle" is a 4 or a 5.

"Wrinkle" vs. Crease >>



Looks like one of those topics that really should be in an FAQ somewhere, or at least a sticky thread.

For the record, I have a stack of PSA 5 slabs that have nothing keeping them out of an 8 holder except a single 1/4 inch wrinkle. So, I'd vote that a wrinkle means you get a auto 5 assuming everything else warrants a grade above 5.

itzagoner

good fun gecko. i'd bid you up and win you.

and i'd never send you back.

you are exactly as you've been described.

gecko109