I usually don't like to get into these types of flame war of words , but I'm going to throw my two cents worth into the hat ! I read in the paper today of Angel fans welcoming Albert to L. A. and Albert making the comment ' Me and my wife , we felt that pain , too . But at the same time , when that decision came , I was being obedient . I didn't want to go to a place that God wasn't calling me to go . '......end quote ! Now personally , I felt that comment was pretty lame for an excuse to leave St. Louis ..........but I'm not deeply religious to the extreme .............and I'm not going to judge someone else on their motives ! I personally do not know Albert , and I don't believe anyone else on this Board does either..............so he deserves to be given the respect and benefit of the doubt of truly being a devote and religious man ! As for Ryan Braun , that is another sad chapter being written in baseball history ! Guilty or innocent , this whole PED mess needs to be addressed with a better solution to the problem ! I am not going to cast any stones at anybody , as I am not perfect ! .........................................Robbie
Collect 1964 Topps Baseball 1963 Fleer Lou Brock Master Set
disagree.....although there is immense pressure on the parents of gifted athletes as well as the athletes themselves, i am of the opinion that most of the work which is done behind the scenes has more to do with financial enticements directed at the controlling powers involved with finding a place for these athletes at a higher level.
i don't dispute that there are parents who will go to ANY length to see their gifted kid succeed, even to go so far as to jeopardize the child's physical health or their life for the sake of a huge contract.
but, i also believe that the beginning of that path is populated by members of a peer group, who also feel as empowered to use as anyone who preceeded them, particularly when they witness the potential for success of those same people.
Innocent isn't the term I would use. He had synthetic testosterone in his body. They bought his excuse, which according to my sources confirms the internet rumors. MLB can't let a guy off if he says it wasn't intentional, it just opens the flood gates.
The best pitch to start a hitter off with is always strike one.
Innocent isn't the term I would use. He had synthetic testosterone in his body. They bought his excuse, which according to my sources confirms the internet rumors. MLB can't let a guy off if he says it wasn't intentional, it just opens the flood gates. >>
yep, not only this, but he also allegedly won this on a technicality....ie something about the time of delivery on the sample. The postiive test for extremely ellevated testosterone isn't going away. He still tested positive for it....ie still guilty.
apparently there are some Brewer fans working for FedEx
Ryan Braun won his PED suspension appeal on a revelation that a courier did not take his urine sample immediately to FedEx because he thought it was closed on Saturday nights.
For those rejoicing have you even read the links provided? There's absolutely nothing for him to be proud of here.
"Haudricourt says the appeal went Braun's way not because of the test result, but because of a technicality with the testing process. CBSSports.com's Jon Heyman and The New York Post's Joel Sherman report that part of Braun's argument was that the sample was not shipped in a timely fashion and that the chain of custody was broken for two days, meaning the sample was left unprotected (Twitter links). Independent arbitrator Shyam Das ruled in favor of the technicality, giving him the win by a 2-1 margin."
"MLB has issued a statement saying it "vehemently disagrees" with the decision."
got away with cheating because of a technicality...
anyone who knows about the body knows that synthetic hormone does NOT stay in the body very long he would have been clean a few days after his failed test...
THAT IS WHY THEY ARE RANDOM PEOPLE! otherwise nobody would fail!
I for one prefer to reserve my opinion on such matters until ALL facts have come to light-- and the one unassailable fact at the moment is that these proceedings were not recorded. The public does not have the whole story. To shoot from the hip or spout off in either direction without possessing all the facts always leaves one open to looking silly down the road.
Secondly, we in the public are all entitled to our opinions, but in the end: people's opinions in chat rooms, blogs, newspapers, and on the airwaves really mean squat in the grand scheme. Braun is making millions and has achieved, just by making it into MLB, more than most men ever achieve in their lives. Whether he took something or not, and no one knows for sure right now, he's got a long and lucrative career ahead of him, with fame and its trappings and legions of adoring fans (I personally don't really follow the NL or care about him or the Brewers). The guy could probably not care any less about what any one of us has to say about him.
<< <i>I for one prefer to reserve my opinion on such matters until ALL facts have come to light-- and the one unassailable fact at the moment is that these proceedings were not recorded. The public does not have the whole story. To shoot from the hip or spout off in either direction without possessing all the facts always leaves one open to looking silly down the road.
Secondly, we in the public are all entitled to our opinions, but in the end: people's opinions in chat rooms, blogs, newspapers, and on the airwaves really mean squat in the grand scheme. Braun is making millions and has achieved, just by making it into MLB, more than most men ever achieve in their lives. Whether he took something or not, and no one knows for sure right now, he's got a long and lucrative career ahead of him, with fame and its trappings and legions of adoring fans (I personally don't really follow the NL or care about him or the Brewers). The guy could probably not care any less about what any one of us has to say about him. >>
if he didnt care about what other people thought then WHY DID HE CHEAT?
he never said he didnt do PED's...he said it took too long for his sample to be tested....
GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY
he made more enemies this week than he did last month!
<< <i>if he didnt care about what other people thought then WHY DID HE CHEAT? >>
$$$
<< <i>he never said he didnt do PED's...he said it took too long for his sample to be tested.... >>
What difference does it make? How is this going to affect your life. Can you sleep at night? Does your wife/mom/children love you less? This impacts your life 0
<< <i>GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY >>
You're judge, jury, and executioner?
<< <i>he made more enemies this week than he did last month! >>
Enemies? Really. Are you going to lead the lynch mob that vanquishes these Evil Brewers of Milly-wal-kay when the visit a National League City near you?
If every guy is tested as often as they say then I think Braun is stupid to do a PED. I tend to believe the rumors going round. But again we don't all the facts, so lets make sure we vilify the guy in the court of public opinion. And if they are tested several times through out the year and 3-4 guys get popped a year. I think the testing system is obviously working.
There is no ironclad proof the guy "cheated." He ostensibly failed a test. The resultant suspension was thrown out. The proceedings that led to the overturning were not made public. There is no transcript. Too many rumors and partial bits of alleged fact are swirling right now; did he take medication for some other private condition and did that result in the test? We simply do not know.
If he wants to tell us in the public, good for him. If he never says a word, the sun will still come out tomorrow. Life goes on.
The fact is the guy has achieved more than the majority of men on the planet. He was a great player while clean. Maybe last year he took something, maybe not. It's all conjecture and hot air until the entire hearing is made public or the guy comes forward with some detailed explanation-- which is his right to do, or not.
take away the MVP!!!! kemp deserved it more anyway! >>
his apperance during this very game (see picture) caused him to be tested after the game...guess what....HE WAS CHEATING!!!! that is when he got nailed, cause he LOOKED LIKE HE WAS A DRUGGIE
That's why I preface my comments with "if this is the case". Since this is a message board, we're free to speculate all we want. If he did indeed fail the test with a 30:1 ratio vs a 4:1 fail threshold, that's pretty damning. It will be very interesting to see how he performs this year. I won't say having a down year totally indicts him as a juicer since he no longer has Prince in the line-up to protect him, but it will lend credence to the rumors in these reports.
There was a live press conference at noon today (Milwaukee time) from spring training. Braun addressed the media and fielded questions from reporters from all around the country. He was asked questions for a half hour and answered them all without hesitation. If you did not watch this then you have no frame of reference to comment on this situation anymore. He was very adament about having never put anything like this in his body. His sample went missing for 44 hours with a fed-ex courier. It could have been switched or tampered with. Only he knows the real truth, but he was quite convincing that he did no wrong at the press conference.
<< <i>sources told ESPN legal analyst Lester Munson they are still convinced that the sample tested came from Braun, and that the positive test result was correct. They emphasized that the FedEx package that arrived in the Montreal laboratory was sealed three times with tamper-proof seals -- one on the box, one on a plastic bag inside the box, and again on the vial that contained the urine. >>
This is standard when urine samples are taken, ANYWHERE! Tamper proof seals! (Edited to add: the donor typically initials over the tamper proof labels to prevent tampering)
<< <i>The lab chief, an MLB source told Munson, testified that the urine was not tainted, that it was appropriate for testing, and that it tested positive for testosterone. >>
<< <i>Braun detailed how the urine sample he provided on Oct. 1, the day the Brewers opened the playoffs, was not delivered to Federal Express until Oct. 3. Baseball's drug agreement calls for samples to be delivered to FedEx on the same day they are collected. >>
This 2 day wait is what Braun's argument was and the "fatal flaw".
<< <i>Any failure to follow the joint procedure, the league officials assert, is a "technicality" and had no effect on the integrity of the sample or the results of the test. >>
I think this opens up the question of other players that have tested positive. Palmeiro comes to mind. Maybe a few others can get their positive tests thrown out.
I'm just spit-balling here, but is the collector of the sample the same person who seals the container with a tamper-proof seal? Might he have additional containers and tamper proof seals such that he (or someone who got into the cooler in his basement) could just put a new seal on a new container with tainted fluid in it?
It's been reported that Braun offered a DNA sample to compare against the urine sample to see if it was even his and MLB declined. I could see why they wouldn't want that information, since if it didn't match, the can of worms that would be opened is incomprehensible.
<< <i>I think this opens up the question of other players that have tested positive. Palmeiro comes to mind. Maybe a few others can get their positive tests thrown out. >>
Unfortunately for them the court of public opinion has already decided. HOF voters too, probably.
<< <i>Sources also told Munson that there was doubt over whose urine was actually being tested. Braun offered to take a DNA test to confirm whose urine was in the sample, but Major League Baseball declined. However, an MLB source told ESPN's Mike Golic that Braun's side backed off of the offer to take a DNA test. >>
<< <i> He was very adament about having never put anything like this in his body. >>
So did Rafael Palmiero. Just sayin'. I'm sure if Braun were a Pirate, I'd be defending him. Unfortunately we don't have anyone good enough to warrant a juicer investigation. It would be sad if Pedro Alvarez was found to be juicing to produce his sub .200 average and sub 10 HR season last year.
<< <i>"collector of the sample the same person who seals the container with a tamper-proof seal?
<< <i>
This is why I edited the second from above reply, for the tests I take, the donor adheres the tamper proof label to the bottle, the label is long with larger rectangular ends. It's designed to adhere over the cap and along the sides of the bottle. The label will break if someone tries to take it off. To ensure it's the original label, the donor initials in permanent marker over the cap and label, with explicit directions to overlap the label itself. Therefore, the initials are over both the lable and cap. It's an almost fool proof way to protect the integrity of the sample.
"I'm just spit-balling here, but is the collector of the sample the same person who seals the container with a tamper-proof seal? Might he have additional containers and tamper proof seals such that he (or someone who got into the cooler in his basement) could just put a new seal on a new container with tainted fluid in it?
It's been reported that Braun offered a DNA sample to compare against the urine sample to see if it was even his and MLB declined. I could see why they wouldn't want that information, since if it didn't match, the can of worms that would be opened is incomprehensible."
I work in a safety related occupation that has government mandated random urine tests. The process is the same as MLB's The sample is sealed in front of you. You initial on the seal to indicate you witnessed the container getting sealed. The person collecting the sample then takes the container and places it into a plastic bag. The original container and the plastic bag has identical identifying information on them. This is then placed into a box and sealed. The box is then put into another box for shipping. This entire process is done in front of the donor by the same person. The lab that receives the sample is supposed to exclude any box that shows signs of tampering. In my occupation I have the right to request time off of work to go to an independent lab immediately to have another test on my dime. My guess is the MLBPA has negotiated a similar clause in their contract. Also, the entire process can be observed by the players Union rep if the player wishes. (Again this should've been negotiated into the contract.) Having said that I do not trust the system even a little bit. Even though the labs are supposed to have a chain of command for each sample I do not trust what is going on if I can't see it. The system is run and managed humans and humans make mistakes.
Comments
I usually don't like to get into these types of flame war of words , but I'm going to throw my two cents
worth into the hat ! I read in the paper today of Angel fans welcoming Albert to L. A. and Albert making the
comment ' Me and my wife , we felt that pain , too . But at the same time , when that decision came , I was
being obedient . I didn't want to go to a place that God wasn't calling me to go . '......end quote !
Now personally , I felt that comment was pretty lame for an excuse to leave St. Louis ..........but I'm not
deeply religious to the extreme .............and I'm not going to judge someone else on their motives ! I personally
do not know Albert , and I don't believe anyone else on this Board does either..............so he deserves to be
given the respect and benefit of the doubt of truly being a devote and religious man ! As for Ryan Braun , that
is another sad chapter being written in baseball history ! Guilty or innocent , this whole PED mess needs to
be addressed with a better solution to the problem ! I am not going to cast any stones at anybody , as I am
not perfect ! .........................................Robbie
1963 Fleer
Lou Brock Master Set
<< <i>
<< <i>the PED use begins in HIGH SCHOOL. >>
And often times initiated by the parents
disagree.....although there is immense pressure on the parents of gifted athletes as well as the athletes themselves, i am of the opinion that most of the work which is done behind the scenes has more to do with financial enticements directed at the controlling powers involved with finding a place for these athletes at a higher level.
i don't dispute that there are parents who will go to ANY length to see their gifted kid succeed, even to go so far as to jeopardize the child's physical health or their life for the sake of a huge contract.
but, i also believe that the beginning of that path is populated by members of a peer group, who also feel as empowered to use as anyone who preceeded them, particularly when they witness the potential for success of those same people.
INNOCENT!!!!!
Go Brewers
<< <i>Braun won his appeal. First time ever.
INNOCENT!!!!!
Go Brewers >>
News Blurb
If the details ever become public, I would like to know the circumstances...
Edit: It appears there are conflicting reports; some news outlets say the suspension was upheld, others say it was overturned...
AP says suspended
Fox 6 in Milwaukee says overturned
<< <i>I for one am glad.. I like Braun and was hoping this result would come >>
<< <i>Braun won his appeal. First time ever.
INNOCENT!!!!!
Go Brewers >>
Innocent isn't the term I would use. He had synthetic testosterone in his body. They bought his excuse, which according to my sources confirms the internet rumors. MLB can't let a guy off if he says it wasn't intentional, it just opens the flood gates.
<< <i>
<< <i>Braun won his appeal. First time ever.
INNOCENT!!!!!
Go Brewers >>
Innocent isn't the term I would use. He had synthetic testosterone in his body. They bought his excuse, which according to my sources confirms the internet rumors. MLB can't let a guy off if he says it wasn't intentional, it just opens the flood gates. >>
yep, not only this, but he also allegedly won this on a technicality....ie something about the time of delivery on the sample. The postiive test for extremely ellevated testosterone isn't going away. He still tested positive for it....ie still guilty.
<< <i>
<< <i>Braun won his appeal. First time ever.
INNOCENT!!!!!
Go Brewers >>
which according to my sources confirms the internet rumors. >>
Which are what?
Ryan Braun won his PED suspension appeal on a revelation that a courier did not take his urine sample immediately to FedEx because he thought it was closed on Saturday nights.
"Haudricourt says the appeal went Braun's way not because of the test result, but because of a technicality with the testing process. CBSSports.com's Jon Heyman and The New York Post's Joel Sherman report that part of Braun's argument was that the sample was not shipped in a timely fashion and that the chain of custody was broken for two days, meaning the sample was left unprotected (Twitter links). Independent arbitrator Shyam Das ruled in favor of the technicality, giving him the win by a 2-1 margin."
"MLB has issued a statement saying it "vehemently disagrees" with the decision."
link
Braun Ruling Deals Blow to Selig's Testing Program
anyone who knows about the body knows that synthetic hormone does NOT stay in the body very long he would have been clean a few days after his failed test...
THAT IS WHY THEY ARE RANDOM PEOPLE! otherwise nobody would fail!
eyes of a cheat/drug user
Secondly, we in the public are all entitled to our opinions, but in the end: people's opinions in chat rooms, blogs, newspapers, and on the airwaves really mean squat in the grand scheme. Braun is making millions and has achieved, just by making it into MLB, more than most men ever achieve in their lives. Whether he took something or not, and no one knows for sure right now, he's got a long and lucrative career ahead of him, with fame and its trappings and legions of adoring fans (I personally don't really follow the NL or care about him or the Brewers). The guy could probably not care any less about what any one of us has to say about him.
<< <i>I for one prefer to reserve my opinion on such matters until ALL facts have come to light-- and the one unassailable fact at the moment is that these proceedings were not recorded. The public does not have the whole story. To shoot from the hip or spout off in either direction without possessing all the facts always leaves one open to looking silly down the road.
Secondly, we in the public are all entitled to our opinions, but in the end: people's opinions in chat rooms, blogs, newspapers, and on the airwaves really mean squat in the grand scheme. Braun is making millions and has achieved, just by making it into MLB, more than most men ever achieve in their lives. Whether he took something or not, and no one knows for sure right now, he's got a long and lucrative career ahead of him, with fame and its trappings and legions of adoring fans (I personally don't really follow the NL or care about him or the Brewers). The guy could probably not care any less about what any one of us has to say about him. >>
if he didnt care about what other people thought then WHY DID HE CHEAT?
he never said he didnt do PED's...he said it took too long for his sample to be tested....
GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY
he made more enemies this week than he did last month!
<< <i>if he didnt care about what other people thought then WHY DID HE CHEAT? >>
$$$
<< <i>he never said he didnt do PED's...he said it took too long for his sample to be tested.... >>
What difference does it make? How is this going to affect your life. Can you sleep at night? Does your wife/mom/children love you less? This impacts your life 0
<< <i>GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY >>
You're judge, jury, and executioner?
<< <i>he made more enemies this week than he did last month! >>
Enemies? Really. Are you going to lead the lynch mob that vanquishes these Evil Brewers of Milly-wal-kay when the visit a National League City near you?
If every guy is tested as often as they say then I think Braun is stupid to do a PED. I tend to believe the rumors going round. But again we don't all the facts, so lets make sure we vilify the guy in the court of public opinion. And if they are tested several times through out the year and 3-4 guys get popped a year. I think the testing system is obviously working.
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
If he wants to tell us in the public, good for him. If he never says a word, the sun will still come out tomorrow. Life goes on.
The fact is the guy has achieved more than the majority of men on the planet. He was a great player while clean. Maybe last year he took something, maybe not. It's all conjecture and hot air until the entire hearing is made public or the guy comes forward with some detailed explanation-- which is his right to do, or not.
<< <i>
eyes of a cheat/drug user >>
DOES THIS LOOK NORMAL?
no
GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!
take away the MVP!!!! kemp deserved it more anyway!
<< <i>
<< <i>
eyes of a cheat/drug user >>
DOES THIS LOOK NORMAL?
no
GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!
take away the MVP!!!! kemp deserved it more anyway! >>
his apperance during this very game (see picture) caused him to be tested after the game...guess what....HE WAS CHEATING!!!! that is when he got nailed, cause he LOOKED LIKE HE WAS A DRUGGIE
may I recommend some xanax?
<< <i>fandango (CardboardKeeper) is just as psychotic as ever I see
may I recommend some xanax? >>
This explains a lot.
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
<< <i>sources told ESPN legal analyst Lester Munson they are still convinced that the sample tested came from Braun, and that the positive test result was correct. They emphasized that the FedEx package that arrived in the Montreal laboratory was sealed three times with tamper-proof seals -- one on the box, one on a plastic bag inside the box, and again on the vial that contained the urine. >>
This is standard when urine samples are taken, ANYWHERE! Tamper proof seals! (Edited to add: the donor typically initials over the tamper proof labels to prevent tampering)
<< <i>The lab chief, an MLB source told Munson, testified that the urine was not tainted, that it was appropriate for testing, and that it tested positive for testosterone. >>
<< <i>Braun detailed how the urine sample he provided on Oct. 1, the day the Brewers opened the playoffs, was not delivered to Federal Express until Oct. 3. Baseball's drug agreement calls for samples to be delivered to FedEx on the same day they are collected. >>
This 2 day wait is what Braun's argument was and the "fatal flaw".
<< <i>Any failure to follow the joint procedure, the league officials assert, is a "technicality" and had no effect on the integrity of the sample or the results of the test. >>
I think this opens up the question of other players that have tested positive. Palmeiro comes to mind. Maybe a few others can get their positive tests thrown out.
Link
It's been reported that Braun offered a DNA sample to compare against the urine sample to see if it was even his and MLB declined. I could see why they wouldn't want that information, since if it didn't match, the can of worms that would be opened is incomprehensible.
<< <i>I think this opens up the question of other players that have tested positive. Palmeiro comes to mind. Maybe a few others can get their positive tests thrown out. >>
Unfortunately for them the court of public opinion has already decided. HOF voters too, probably.
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
<< <i>Sources also told Munson that there was doubt over whose urine was actually being tested. Braun offered to take a DNA test to confirm whose urine was in the sample, but Major League Baseball declined. However, an MLB source told ESPN's Mike Golic that Braun's side backed off of the offer to take a DNA test. >>
<< <i> He was very adament about having never put anything like this in his body. >>
So did Rafael Palmiero. Just sayin'. I'm sure if Braun were a Pirate, I'd be defending him. Unfortunately we don't have anyone good enough to warrant a juicer investigation.
<< <i>"collector of the sample the same person who seals the container with a tamper-proof seal?
<< <i>
This is why I edited the second from above reply, for the tests I take, the donor adheres the tamper proof label to the bottle, the label is long with larger rectangular ends. It's designed to adhere over the cap and along the sides of the bottle. The label will break if someone tries to take it off. To ensure it's the original label, the donor initials in permanent marker over the cap and label, with explicit directions to overlap the label itself. Therefore, the initials are over both the lable and cap. It's an almost fool proof way to protect the integrity of the sample.
It's been reported that Braun offered a DNA sample to compare against the urine sample to see if it was even his and MLB declined. I could see why they wouldn't want that information, since if it didn't match, the can of worms that would be opened is incomprehensible."
I work in a safety related occupation that has government mandated random urine tests. The process is the same as MLB's
The sample is sealed in front of you. You initial on the seal to indicate you witnessed the container getting sealed. The person collecting the sample then takes the container and places it into a plastic bag. The original container and the plastic bag has identical identifying information on them. This is then placed into a box and sealed. The box is then put into another box for shipping. This entire process is done in front of the donor by the same person.
The lab that receives the sample is supposed to exclude any box that shows signs of tampering.
In my occupation I have the right to request time off of work to go to an independent lab immediately to have another test on my dime. My guess is the MLBPA has negotiated a similar clause in their contract. Also, the entire process can be observed by the players Union rep if the player wishes. (Again this should've been negotiated into the contract.)
Having said that I do not trust the system even a little bit. Even though the labs are supposed to have a chain of command for each sample I do not trust what is going on if I can't see it. The system is run and managed humans and humans make mistakes.