(POLL) No Confidence Vote for Current US Government Solving US Economic Crisis
MsMorrisine
Posts: 33,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
You can't bash one party
it's either both or neither
take them or leave them
it's either both or neither
take them or leave them
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Comments
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Good to see Bailey voted!
That was most likely Frank. Baley is probably too busy planning the next pancake social to respond
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Please explain.
Next question: What do you think the Current US Government should do differently to solve the problem?
<< <i>Wow, you can take ether position on this and say one side is ruining it and the other has all the solutions but I don't see how you can look at the whole shooting match and say the current Gov is solving the problem.
Please explain.
Next question: What do you think the Current US Government should do differently to solve the problem? >>
Answer: they should all leave and have a fresh group from the private sector sort it out. Can you say term limits
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
It's kick the can down the road to infinity... and or the reset button is pushed and new game.
The only thing is every time they kick the can down the road, it gets bigger and heavier and harder to kick...
A reset button would be interesting though... Although Im sure the dollar would no longer be the worlds reserve currency. That would be, um, ..., ..., ...
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It's a BLUEBERRY pancake social, who'd wanna miss that?
I am assuming that the term 'Current US Government" is the reasonings behind the large number of 'no' votes.
Im curious if it was reworded to something along the lines "Confidence that the US will be able to..."
Interesting...
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<< <i>
<< <i>Good to see Bailey voted!
That was most likely Frank. Baley is probably too busy planning the next pancake social to respond
MJ >>
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
fiscal IQ
Box of 20
you're right, I was too busy living The Good Life to notice this poll until now.
where's the choice, "What Crisis"?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I would put the blame squarely on the Republicans in Congress (they are the majority, remember), not just the nebulous "US Government".
Twist it as you will, but the Republicans in the House have not intorduced one "Jobs" bill and continue to block those proposed by the Democrats.
Also, when they say "Austerity" in Europe, it is the same as saying "Medicare and Social Security cuts" here in the Government sector and "slashing pensions and nullifying Union contracts" in the private sector here.
I fail to see how PM's benefit from this.
other than "me myself and I" as it directly relates to our executive and legislative branches?
Lets see...
is to eliminate costly, useless regulation
Like clean air requirements? Does that add to employment or add $$ to the pockets of coal, oil and power companies?
the government out of education and let the teachers get back to teaching
This adds jobs? This is purely a ideological argument...no restrictions on curriculum so schools can teach creationism and other stuff not on the Government approved list.
Eliminate the totally useless and overstaffed, under performing (as in zero performance) department of energy
This doesn't create jobs either. It is a panacea to go back to the environment of the 1970's. Remember how Lake Erie used to look?
Edited to add ** Oops, I read EPA. My bad. The Dept. of Engery are regulators. Lifting regulations on oil companies? I don't see where that adds jobs, unless it is cleanup crews in Nebraska and the Gulf Coast.
then get out of bed with unions
This only lowers the average middle class wage. Boosting jobs by lowering wages. The China Syndrome!
Ricko, what you posted sounds more like talking points than something thought out for more than one second.
On a scale of one to ten I see it this way:
1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest
White House 1. Hopeless, yet we will probably get 4 more years of this.
Congress 2 ( they get a point for holding the White House and their agenda in check)
Senate 0- they are a non event.
Add it up and it's easy to see a no confidence landslide vote. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Firstly, it's mind numbing that the democrats are so much in favor of a "tax cut" when it's election time and when they already have a juggernaut of new taxes and regulations aimed at taxpayers for the next decade.
Secondly, it's mind numbing that the republicans are so hot to trot to keep enlarging the welfare state mentality that's becoming the accepted modus operandi.
Lastly, the Keystone Pipeline project would immediately create high-paying jobs and open up new crude oil supplies for the US which would immediately give the US leverage in international negotiating positions. It would also serve to keep inflation down. If the administration and state departments don't see that, they're both dumber than I think they are.
Maybe the John Corzines of the world should go to jail instead of to Congress.
I knew it would happen.
the lives of millions of children each year. This is more than sufficient reason
to vote them all out. The fact that they spend more and more money not teaching
them merely adds insult to the death of the future.
I lost my last shred of polyanna confidence in Washington when the insurance industry
bragged they spent 5.5 billions dollars to "lobby" Congress for obamacare.
Or has there always been a Kook on the Korner wearing a "The END is NEAR" sandwich board?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>You can't bash one party
it's either both or neither
take them or leave them >>
The only difference between the parties is one is driving over the cliff as fast as possible and the other is doing the speed limit.
See ya on the bus
<< <i>To save the economy, starting in January, the Federal Government will start deporting old people (instead of illegal’s) in order to lower Social Security and Medicare costs. Old people are easier to catch and will not remember how to get back home.
See ya on the bus
Lol... Too funny...
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<< <i>Has there ever been a generation of old fogies who APPROVED of "what's going on these newfangled days"?
Or has there always been a Kook on the Korner wearing a "The END is NEAR" sandwich board? >>
Yes, this is quite true.
But this is the first time anyone has ever spent so much money to not teach people to read and write.
This is the first experiment in running a government by business interests and the logical ultimate goal
will be a single company that's more powerful than government and even more paranoid.
One of these days the old kook wearing the sign will be right.
It is also the first time we have spent so much money keeping people alive and then paying them to live.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
will be a single company that's more powerful than government and even more paranoid.
No, the government of the 1870-1900 era was run by the corporate barons, only then they had virtually no regulation on how they made their profits. That experiment failed, bloodily. You can thank the opponents of big business then for the 5-day work week, child labor laws, safe labeling of drugs, etc...
If you think cutting wages boosts productivity, think of Henry Ford. He gave his workers a higher wage than his competitors. Why? So they could buy his cars. Smart man.
<< <i>If you think cutting wages boosts productivity, think of Henry Ford. He gave his workers a higher wage than his competitors. Why? So they could buy his cars. Smart man. >>
Those higher wages pushed the price of everything higher. Only Ford's workers could afford to live. The other 99%
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Keystone's promised jobs are in constructing the pipeline. Why not argue for those job making a high-speed rail from Chicago to Omaha. The sand oil is going to be exported (by Canada) anyway, it's not for US consumption. We get to refine it (big whoops)
Futures traders in Wall Street control the price of oil more than OPEC. This pipeline and additional source would have little impact.
Perhaps the WH and State are aware of these things.
Codhok, I was thinking about the 1910-1940 era in automobile making. Those days are gone.
<< <i>This is the first experiment in running a government by business interests and the logical ultimate goal
will be a single company that's more powerful than government and even more paranoid.
No, the government of the 1870-1900 era was run by the corporate barons, only then they had virtually no regulation on how they made their profits. That experiment failed, bloodily. You can thank the opponents of big business then for the 5-day work week, child labor laws, safe labeling of drugs, etc...
>>
Yep, the 1870-1890 period was a corrupt disaster. That's what happened when mercantilism replaced capitalism as our economic model in the 1860's, thanks to unopposed Republicans (read Whigs) who were able to make it a reality. Henry Clay (Whig) called it the "American System", and we have been living with the disastrous results since then.
Once we decided as a nation that it was ok to give taxpayer money to private businesses, directly, via loans, through subsidies, or pick winners and losers through regulation, then corruption politicians, corrupt lobbyists, and a corrupt political system was the inevitable result.
Nowadays, people who don't understand the difference between capitalism and mercantilism, try to differentiate it by calling it "crony capitalism", but it's nothing more than old school mercantilism that has been around since the 17th century, when Kings gave out "patents" to their favored political friends.
<< <i>
Keystone's promised jobs are in constructing the pipeline. Why not argue for those job making a high-speed rail from Chicago to Omaha. >>
Ah, the old "internal improvements" argument. The high speed rail would never be profitable, and require taxpayer subsidies for eternity (see Amtrak for details). The pipeline would be profitable.
<< <i>I see it a little differently Rick
On a scale of one to ten I see it this way:
1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest
White House 1. Hopeless, yet we will probably get 4 more years of this.
Congress 2 ( they get a point for holding the White House and their agenda in check)
Senate 0- they are a non event.
Add it up and it's easy to see a no confidence landslide vote. MJ >>
I'd love to know which forumites voted For confidence!
Maybe they can shed some light on our so called government of the people!
Yes, of course, one is Government project and the other is a private enterprise. My point is not to compare profitability. Perhaps my point is that a short term jobs project with huge local opposition should be thought out. For example, Rosemont Copper is trying to build an open pit mine south of Tucson, it will be a huge eye-sore, but it will employ a few hundred people. Is it worth the trade-off? (I don't know, I'm asking the question not taking a position)
Here is the proposed site- no one lives there but cattle.
Futures traders in Wall Street control the price of oil more than OPEC. This pipeline and additional source would have little impact.
I think it's unfortunate when comments are made without having any knowledge of the industry. Firstly, jobs will be created before, during and after the construction phase of the pipeline. I'm refering to the engineering, drafting, legal, regulatory, and safety work that goes into any major construction work even before the first backhoe shows up on site. Then, there's the project management, construction management, shipping, construction equipment, materials, fuel and labor that goes into the construction work. After completion, there will be pumping stations & terminals, and maintenance, operations, engineering, logistics, safety, measurement, accounting, and general management personnel all over the place. Those are nice residual jobs that aren't done anywhere but here, and unlike Bill Gates does with his operation, they can't be outsourced to India.
Secondly, the Keystone PL has no bearing on Canada's possible exportation of oil. None. Nada.
Thirdly, refining is still a high paying manufacturing industry that the US does better than anyone else. Those are exactly the kind of jobs we need to retain and create. The oil industry generates plenty of tax revenue & retirement pension funding, not to mention providing the feedstocks for every synthetic material in your modern daily life. Best of all, it pays it's own way and doesn't require taxpayer infusions for uneconomical green energy scams.
Your comments on traders controlling the price of oil and the impact of additional supplies are simply uninformed. Oil movements are tracked quite accurately within the industry and the prices fluctuate daily in response to the daily news. Any market can be manipulated short term and oil is no exception, but you can't hide the fundamentals in the oil market for long. The last oil trader that tried, lost - and took his whole company with him. Oil isn't like paper money - it's real - if it goes missing, someone comes after it, looking.
I knew it would happen.
I specifically referenced Sarbanes-Oxley (and there are many more examples) and the EPA... yes, eliminating many of the excessive regulations would create more jobs, since companies could afford to expand and hire workers. The same goes for restrictive government programs that create cost not jobs.
the government out of education and let the teachers get back to teaching
No one said anything about creationism, I am more in favor of teaching subjects like history, economics, math etc... instead of teaching to pass government tests. And just what in the h e double hockey stick is "..other stuff not on the Government approved list." Government approved list?? Really?? No wonder we are turning out a bunch of socialists from our colleges... and if there was real teaching in the high schools perhaps there would be a better grade of people entering the work force and more college people questioning the mindless rote of some college 'professors' who have no idea of real world requirements.
Remember how Lake Erie used to look?
And you attribute this to the DOE?? Please Rick, I have always considered you far more informed than that.
This only lowers the average middle class wage. Boosting jobs by lowering wages.
Rubbish, the unions are bloated, greedy entities who consider nothing but their own political survival interests. The cost of building product, due to unreasonable union demands and over regulation sends jobs overseas since the product cannot be made and sold at a profit here in America.
These are not talking points.. they are reality. I have many years in business and first hand experience with these issues. Education of applicants is abominable, useless government agencies create regulations to keep themselves employed, and unions just want more, more, more. No, not talking points, facts.
Cheers, RickO
<< <i>Ah, the old "internal improvements" argument. The high speed rail would never be profitable, and require taxpayer subsidies for eternity (see Amtrak for details). The pipeline would be profitable.
Yes, of course, one is Government project and the other is a private enterprise. My point is not to compare profitability. Perhaps my point is that a short term jobs project with huge local opposition should be thought out. For example, Rosemont Copper is trying to build an open pit mine south of Tucson, it will be a huge eye-sore, but it will employ a few hundred people. Is it worth the trade-off? (I don't know, I'm asking the question not taking a position)
>>
I guess the real question is why anyone would get to judge what a "trade-off" is for people using their own private property however it suits them.
If that's public land, then the question is different of course, and goes back to the influence (corruption) of mercantilism and the government deciding who it favors with it's largess.
We can put a super computer in a cell phone but the internal combustion engine is still #1 mode of transporation???
Personally I think more new jobs could be created with 2011 integrity instead of 1911 ingenuity.
<< <i>Fossil fuel let's keep raping the environment for the good of Big Oil the biggest $$ Lobbist there is.
We can put a super computer in a cell phone but the internal combustion engine is still #1 mode of transporation???
Personally I think more new jobs could be created with 2011 integrity instead of 1911 ingenuity. >>
gsa, whether you like or not, the USA is fueled by fossil fuel, and will remain so for decades.
Just like super computing, the oil drilling business is state of the art and remains the most efficient form of transportation fuel.
There are no solar jets, solar cars, or solar buses and trucks.
Coal fuels the Volt....which BTW, is a total disaster as far as state of the art transportation.
It's nice to be liberal when you're a kid, but real world men need their oil.
We can put a super computer in a cell phone but the internal combustion engine is still #1 mode of transporation???
Personally I think more new jobs could be created with 2011 integrity instead of 1911 ingenuity.
Hmmmm, gsa1fan. Wanna elaborate a bit about these ideas?
By the way, how do you get around? Ever had a medicine that was derived from oil instead of a natural herb? Let's talk about plastics, elastomers, plasticizers, thermoplastics, adhesives, laminations, printed circuit boards, microfiltration, coatings, the keys on your computer keyboard, your bucket seats and stereo speakers, your toothbrush and contact lenses. Wanna go without?
Ingenuity has alot to do with it, and much of the ingenuity that makes your day comes from that nasty, stinky, dirty oil that you detest.
The microchips you want to put on a pedestal generate hazardous waste from plating operations and etching solutions when they are manufactured. The metal, glass and plastic components in the solar panels that you want to love are made in dirty, energy-intensive factories from raw materials that have to be mined, extracted, refined, fabricated and finished. All of these processes create waste, much of which is not healthy to consume.
It's not about technology or energy as the bad guy. It's about smart utilization of resources and responsible treatment of the environment. If you haven't been in industry, you really don't know what's being done, and what's not. There are tradeoffs in every decision, and if you find any real business where the choices are always black & white, go work there.
If you want to improve the environment, go and convince China, India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia, Venezuela and Zimbawe to upgrade all of their manufacturing, mining and energy industries - even to within 50% of the environmental standards that our American industries are held to. The US is NOT the problem.
In my experience, the bad guys usually are the ones who want something for nothing, and don't lift a finger to help produce it. Take it for what it's worth.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Fossil fuel let's keep raping the environment for the good of Big Oil the biggest $$ Lobbist there is.
We can put a super computer in a cell phone but the internal combustion engine is still #1 mode of transporation???
Personally I think more new jobs could be created with 2011 integrity instead of 1911 ingenuity.
Hmmmm, gsa1fan. Wanna elaborate a bit about these ideas?
By the way, how do you get around? Ever had a medicine that was derived from oil instead of a natural herb? Let's talk about plastics, elastomers, plasticizers, thermoplastics, adhesives, laminations, printed circuit boards, microfiltration, coatings, the keys on your computer keyboard, your bucket seats and stereo speakers, your toothbrush and contact lenses. Wanna go without?
Ingenuity has alot to do with it, and much of the ingenuity that makes your day comes from that nasty, stinky, dirty oil that you detest.
The microchips you want to put on a pedestal generate hazardous waste from plating operations and etching solutions when they are manufactured. The metal, glass and plastic components in the solar panels that you want to love are made in dirty, energy-intensive factories from raw materials that have to be mined, extracted, refined, fabricated and finished. All of these processes create waste, much of which is not healthy to consume.
It's not about technology or energy as the bad guy. It's about smart utilization of resources and responsible treatment of the environment. If you haven't been in industry, you really don't know what's being done, and what's not. There are tradeoffs in every decision, and if you find any real business where the choices are always black & white, go work there.
If you want to improve the environment, go and convince China, India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia, Venezuela and Zimbawe to upgrade all of their manufacturing, mining and energy industries - even to within 50% of the environmental standards that our American industries are held to. The US is NOT the problem.
In my experience, the bad guys usually are the ones who want something for nothing, and don't lift a finger to help produce it. Take it for what it's worth. >>
I just think we can do better than statis quo! If you are unable to imagine a different way then I can not ever get you out your [box]
I will agree there is a better way of doing the SOS but JMHO time to invent a new wheel.
Go for it, man! If you have a better idea, I'll even help you. We'll both be rich and famous!
I knew it would happen.
I think it's unfortunate when comments are made without having any knowledge of the industry. Firstly, jobs will be created before, during and after the construction phase of the pipeline. I'm refering to the engineering, drafting, legal, regulatory, and safety work that goes into any major construction work even before the first backhoe shows up on site. Then, there's the project management, construction management, shipping, construction equipment, materials, fuel and labor that goes into the construction work. After completion, there will be pumping stations & terminals, and maintenance, operations, engineering, logistics, safety, measurement, accounting, and general management personnel all over the place. Those are nice residual jobs that aren't done anywhere but here, and unlike Bill Gates does with his operation, they can't be outsourced to India.
Yes, these are all jobs for Trans Canada, not an American company.
Secondly, the Keystone PL has no bearing on Canada's possible exportation of oil. None. Nada.
It's a Canadian company exporting Cadaian oil sand to refineries in the US. We reap very little reward as a nation. You can say we do, but I don't think so. My opinion.
Thirdly, refining is still a high paying manufacturing industry that the US does better than anyone else. Those are exactly the kind of jobs we need to retain and create. The oil industry generates plenty of tax revenue & retirement pension funding, not to mention providing the feedstocks for every synthetic material in your modern daily life. Best of all, it pays it's own way and doesn't require taxpayer infusions for uneconomical green energy scams.
I think the existing infrastructure is going to handle the oil sands and we certainly will not reduce our oil that needs refining, so I don't think this status quo will change for the better or worse.
Your comments on traders controlling the price of oil and the impact of additional supplies are simply uninformed. Oil movements are tracked quite accurately within the industry and the prices fluctuate daily in response to the daily news. Any market can be manipulated short term and oil is no exception, but you can't hide the fundamentals in the oil market for long. The last oil trader that tried, lost - and took his whole company with him. Oil isn't like paper money - it's real - if it goes missing, someone comes after it, looking.
Day to day price fluctuations are not made solely by some supply and demand genie who dictates prices. People bid for it and people accept bids. Uniformed? Glad you didn't delve too deep into insulting me as to what I know, cause, I'd keep showing you that I understand very well how things work.
I said "oops, I read EPA instead of DOE."
You are missing my point, an twisting the whole idea of my response. However, you seem to be saying that we should stoop to the depths of their problems on environment for the almighty $$. Just because some are worse, doesn't mean we have to be as bad.
<< <i>
I would put the blame squarely on the Republicans in Congress (they are the majority, remember), not just the nebulous "US Government".
Twist it as you will, but the Republicans in the House have not intorduced one "Jobs" bill and continue to block those proposed by the Democrats. >>
FYI, I am NOT a Republican, BUT, are you serious with this ? The R's have introduced SEVERAL jobs bills that Harry Reid has blocked in the Senate and the D's still control 2 of the 3 branches but it's ALL the R's fault. Is anything Obama's fault ? Just curious, because everything still seems to be Bush's fault. For such a dumb President he still seems to weild amazing power 3 years removed from office ................ and, no, I didn't vote for him either.
You haven't yet. Every one of your responses to my post is wrong on one or more levels. You are operating on the easiest level of superficial information. Thanks anyway. It's pointless to give any facts to you, so you can dig them out yourself if you really care enough to want them.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>"Baley is probably too busy planning the next pancake social to respond"
It's a BLUEBERRY pancake social, who'd wanna miss that? >>
You are missing my point, an twisting the whole idea of my response. However, you seem to be saying that we should stoop to the depths of their problems on environment for the almighty $$. Just because some are worse, doesn't mean we have to be as bad.
Rick, you're a smart enough guy to understand this or you wouldn't be as successful as you are. But, YOU are completely missing the point. And don't you start twisting what I said. I'm comparing our standards to theirs and that's all I'm doing. If you are saying that I want lower standards in the US, then you are the one who is doing the twisting. So stop it.
Simple question. If you have a mine in Mexico that produces 100,000,000 tons of ore and releases 1,000,000 tons of toxic waste vs. a US mine that produces 100,000,000 tons of ore and releases 1,000 tons of toxic waste - which mine would you clamp down on with more stringent regulations FIRST?
Which operation do you think produces the cheaper ore? Which one would you rather see in operation, from a humanistic point of view?
I knew it would happen.