Numismatic v Bullion. What's your story...

Kd5ddo

Still being fairly new to PMs in general (<2yr), I had a few questions for y'all here. I started off stacking PMs for an inflation hedge and diversification of my portfolio. Being more interested in the number of oz over the prettiness, my number one goal was to get as much as possible, as close to melt as possible.

But as I gained more and more different types of coinage, cataloging and tracking became more and more difficult. So I worked on concentrating my efforts in a limited number of bullion: Eagles, Phils, Canadian, and 90%... I respect the numismatic aspect of it all, but I have a few questions about it.

For most bullion, the premium I pay upfront I get back when I sell. Even if there is a SHTF type of scenario, I still expect there to be a premium (albeit a smaller amount) when I sell my PM. Think guaranteed pureness of an American Eagle over Uncle Bobs Mint. The premium for this I understand. But how stable are the numismatic premiums? I've always heard that a coin is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and that is what concerns me...

At what point if any did the numismatic aspect of PMs start for you, and what place is it in your stacking/investing plan?

DorkGirl

Actually it was just the opposite for me. I collected numismatic only for a long time, then after the books were filled, I started stacking. I loved looking for the best deals and swapping silver for gold or ?.

piecesofme

I've always heard that a coin is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and that is what concerns me...

I had an awesome certified CC Morgan set, all 13 coins in as high of a grade as I could afford. When all was said and done (due to taking it further would've gotten into STUPID money), from the time I started building it to the time I sold it which took about 4 years of upgrading to get it where I wanted it to be, the collection itself netted me around 20%. Not bad right?

But look what Silver has done in the last 1.5 years, and think about if you were one of them people stacking when it was $4/oz!

I love CC Morgans and pre-1880 IHC's were my first numismatic love, but looking at it from the point of view of wanting to increase value more rapidly, i'd rather risk my money with bullion. jmho.

Kd5ddo

When I started stacking bullion (or as my ex phrased it, boring stuff), I would bring home a 'pretty' piece or two every once in a while to buy me some slack if you will. Perth kookas mainly, but never coins of numismatic qualities, not that don't bounce the idea around every once in a while. Maybe a 1942/1 Mercury dime.... :-)

There is just something about the older coins that I love. They're just, cool...

ricko

I started stacking a long time ago.... not sure if it was luck or foresight (of course I would like to believe foresight )... and it certainly has paid off. At the time, it was not numismatic value that motivated me... other than I liked the designs too. Cheers, RickO

Coyn

Ive been collecting since the 1960's. Love my coins and currency but decided about 2004 we were headed for financial trouble. The Chinese and Indians were not going to be interested in our "mint state key dates' but rather in bullion.

Sold most except "those I couldn't part with" and moved to bullion (silver at 7 was a steal). Never a regret.

Now I am looking again at the numismatic stuff because, well, once you got the fever it really never goes away.

USMC_6115

I have sold most of my numismatic material (IKES, Type, etc) and go after PMs now more than anything. I have kept any key date coins that I have owned, but unloaded most of the other stuff..

I like the fact that PMs are what they are. A dealer isn't going to hype them to sell them to you, then cut them to pieces when you are selling them...At least as far as my dealer, I can take a roll of 90% in to him and do better than Ebay. He pays well and immediate..

Now, I find myself seeking "collectible" bullion bars

derryb

I stack only PMs that also have a numismatic quality.

tydye

I hold onto bullion with slight premiums such as Engelhard, JM bars and Gov rounds such as ASE, Maples etc. I dump the lower end stuff (generic 999 rounds) when i get it and cash in on the larger premium pieces.

Kd5ddo

<< <i>I hold onto bullion with slight premiums such as Engelhard, JM bars and Gov rounds such as ASE, Maples etc. I dump the lower end stuff (generic 999 rounds) when i get it and cash in on the larger premium pieces. >>



Tydye - No numismatic coins at all?

MilesWaits

The most "numismatic" coins I have are the 2008 Gold Buffs and the 2009 UHR.

When I bought these from the Mint, that was not my intention. I agree with DerryB.

I got lucky. If it has no PM content, I am carrying it in my pocket for change.

Miles

jmski52

It's a great question. I still balance my numismatic holdings with generic bullion. I believe that generic bullion will always have a greater utility if the currency gets destroyed, but I am also a collector at heart.

I appreciate coins, and much to the contrary of what you will hear in the Coin Forum, bullion coins are indeed coins. They are also very collectable. Besides that, I make a good return by tracking mintages and gauging the popularity of new issues. We've had some very good experiences here from the mutual sharing of knowledge and information.

There are also some very knowledgeable folks in this forum who know the classic gold & silver markets, in addition to the foreign exchange, mining industry and derivatives markets. And alot of these topics tend to tie into financial and monetary issues, the discussion of which benefits most who are tuned in.

1970SilverArt

I started out in January 2007 buying small amounts of regular gold (fractional) and silver bullion (Engelhard, JM, SAE's) but in late August of 2008 at a coin show, I became a silver art bar collector when I saw some silver art bars at that time that I liked. From August 2008 up to now, my love for silver art bars runs strong. I loved silver art bars so much that over the following years, I ended up selling most of my regular gold and silver bullion (Engelhard, JM, SAEs, Engelhard Prospectors, etc.) and used the proceeds to build up my silver art bar collection. Currently, I mainly concentrate on collecting rare '70's silver art bars but I will sometimes buy a common-minted silver art bar that catches my eye.

tydye

<< <i>Tydye - No numismatic coins at all? >>



Sorry misread question I guess. My holdings are about half bullion and half numismatic. I collect Bust and Seated coinage mostly.

Solo

<< <i>I appreciate coins, and much to the contrary of what you will hear in the Coin Forum, bullion coins are indeed coins. They are also very collectable. Besides that, I make a good return by tracking mintages and gauging the popularity of new issues. >>



That's the way I view most modern stuff. Personally I have no numismatic coins other than bullion type stuff (ase, age, first spouse, etc.). I enjoy classic US coins and feel myself being pulled in that direction, but I'm borderline obsessed with paying little to no premiums so I don't buy numi stuff. I simply don't have the funds for both, but admittedly I'm contemplating selling a couple boxes of 25th ase's and buying slabbed lower MS grade saints/eagles/half eagles/etc. with the funds. That way I'm still buying Au for roughly melt, but I'll finally give into my desire to collect classic gold too. I just need to do more research first as I don't know enough about grading/doctoring/dipping/etc. to buy numismatic coins with confidence.

cohodk

For most bullion, the premium I pay upfront I get back when I sell


Paying a premium only ensures a greater loss in the event your investments do not work out as planned.

mrearlygold

I started buying into futures contracts in I think it was 1979 based on a "hot tip" that the new cruise missle program was going to need more silver than what we had in the reserves ( that's why I bought the first contract ). I invested in a contract if I remember correctly at approx $4.50/oz. I had a partner who I was in a different business with in Brooklyn NY. We stockpiled many thousands of oz contracts between $4,50 and $32. I called this jerk on Fla ( Ft Lauderdale ) and he told me I was an az z hole for selling and hung up on me refusing to come back to the phone. I called my partner and we flew to Ft Lauderdale. It got ugly with my partner eventually grabbing the sales manager and essentially hanging him out a window until bookeeping cut us a check. Told me "Tommy, take did ting to da bank-( while pointing his finger in the poor guys eye ) to which I took the check to the companies bank and cashed some of it, deposited into a new acct some of it and called the place to advise the check is fine. What's his name who is a NY State Trooper now by the way, lets the sales manager go and meets me at Durty Nellies on the intracoastal in Lauderdale. We're young and have piles of cash. I bought a new Vette, a boat which I kept at captains cove in Pompano and moved to Fla. In the words of that great midwesterner Chuck Berry, Bye bye New Jersey Didn't learn though till I got my brains beat in, and out and in and out and in again in the business and went to work for Heritage and then I woke up, specializing in the earlies, now 21 years.

Konahead

<< <i>Actually it was just the opposite for me. I collected numismatic only for a long time, then after the books were filled, I started stacking. I loved looking for the best deals and swapping silver for gold or ?. >>



I agree I started collecting and than as things got bad started to stack on the side. I have to say that many of my numismatic coins would be alot harder to part with even if gold and silver went to the moon. My CC morgans will be the last to go.

Kd5ddo

<< <i>I agree I started collecting and than as things got bad started to stack on the side. I have to say that many of my numismatic coins would be alot harder to part with even if gold and silver went to the moon. My CC morgans will be the last to go. >>



I've noticed that the CC morgans have a HUGE following. Personally, i have never seen one in person... yet that is ;-)

fiveNdime

<< <i>Engelhard, JM bars and Gov rounds such as ASE, Maples etc. >>


^some of each of those and mostly walker halves for 90%.

a little bit of everything