Steve did the right thing by stating in his second response in the Unofficial thread that he had "no boxes for sale" and the 7 boxes were "for a CU group rip" and leaving it at that. That would leave it up to a handful of individuals here to determine a proper and fair arrangement, whether boxes or packs.Obviously late starts aren't a fair arrangement as this is the second time this has happened in recent memory and many have complained. Yes, we've missed certain product because time is of the essence, however, these were on hold for us. I agree with 70ToppsFanatic points and hope that future rips can be more forum friendly. I'm also with JeffCBay, I have a front row seat and I'm enjoying it.
P.S. Oh, and RonBurgundy, I agree that your name should have been on the list at #3 BUT I disagree that "garden variety" rips don't generate as much interest. I know that 70ToppsFanatic sold a couple boxes out rather quickly and I can't even keep track of how many "garden variety" group rips that have sold out the last couple months. I'd also like to point out that they generate "more interest" than anything as we seem to gain new forum members every time we have one. Yes, it's not one 20K case but I wouldn't doubt Steve meets that mark or more when we have the larger ones. I do recall having a few easily in the 5 figure range. If I have mistaken your point, then I'll just sit back on the porch.
<< <i>So even though I was like the first or second person to say I'd want a box, somehow I got boxed out? (yeah, I had to)
I guess when a new thread is started for the topic, the statements made in a prior thread about that same topic are treated as if they never existed.
Ah, well. Enjoy. >>
Matty,
I have already expressed my opinions about ways that this could have been done more equitably. Having said that, I am 100% convinced that the organizers of this effort had nothing but the best of intents. While I understand your feelings I would hope that you would try to temper those feelings.
I sent a PM to several of the people who put this break together and I made some suggestions about how we might approach similar situations in the future. I am going to share those ideas here briefly:
1) In a situation like this I think that using the initial 24 hours for "pack" requests (with a max of say 6) and an option to move up to a full box if available after 24 hours might have worked better. Or perhaps initially reserving 5 boxes for pack requests during the first 24 hours and then re-allocating left-overs to full boxes after 24 hours had passed before accepting additional pack requests. The is obviously no perfect solution that will please everyone.
2) I continue to put forth that working collaboratively for the best interests of all will serve us better in the long run. It can help keep buying prices lower. It can encourage new interest/growth in the number of people that enjoy our passion for this (which may help those of us who eventually plan on selling of items in their collections). It allows the enjoyment we all get from older vinatge material to be shared by as wide an audience as possible.
3) I think CU group break should start at a "neutral" time that doesn't favor/disadvantage any particular time zone. Perhaps 2PM Eastern / 11AM Western or 4PM Eastern / 1PM Western. I think we should pre-announce the official start of a break in the official at least 24 hours in advance so that everyone has fair notice. No requests prior to the official start time get honored. That way no one has an advantage/disadvantage.
Lastly, I think that we need to keep some perspective of scarecity in mind when running group breaks. For less common items we should have some respect for allowing such items the chance to stay intact with a collector instead of just suggesting an immediate rip. It would have been a shame to see that 1972 series 1 Topps baseball wax box get broken before giving it a few days to remain intact, as they are certainly a lot less common than 1975 Topps mini unopened wax boxes.
This may sound a bit silly, but at the end of the day if we all try to make our "community" a place where we help each other and try to balance our self-interests with the groups interests I think everyone will benefit.
Just my opinion, but I commit to this group to try to act with these ideals in mind.
3) I think CU group break should start at a "neutral" time that doesn't favor/disadvantage any particular time zone. Perhaps 2PM Eastern / 11AM Western or 4PM Eastern / 1PM Western. I think we should pre-announce the official start of a break in the official at least 24 hours in advance so that everyone has fair notice. No requests prior to the official start time get honored. That way no one has an advantage/disadvantage. q]
<< <i>3) I think CU group break should start at a "neutral" time that doesn't favor/disadvantage any particular time zone. Perhaps 2PM Eastern / 11AM Western or 4PM Eastern / 1PM Western. I think we should pre-announce the official start of a break in the official at least 24 hours in advance so that everyone has fair notice. No requests prior to the official start time get honored. That way no one has an advantage/disadvantage. q]
This is the main rule that needs to apply... >>
I agree 100% and fully apologize for the late start... I was working going back and forth with Steve and just did not have time to post till later in the night when I could monitor the boards and answer questions.
no matter how much you try to, you simply can't please everyone.
if there was an attempt to establish even a modest Code of Ethics here with regards to the group rips, at least all of those who are informed and interested would have a fighting chance.
it still wouldn't please everyone after the goods are sold, but it might limit the amount of displeasure with the process.
there should be as many people involved with this as possible, so for the long haul those same people will keep coming back as participants, otherwise it's just a small society of big players.
<< <i>no matter how much you try to, you simply can't please everyone.
if there was an attempt to establish even a modest Code of Ethics here with regards to the group rips, at least all of those who are informed and interested would have a fighting chance.
it still wouldn't please everyone after the goods are sold, but it might limit the amount of displeasure with the process.
there should be as many people involved with this as possible, so for the long haul those same people will keep coming back as participants, otherwise it's just a small society of big players. >>
I know everyone can't be pleased but 2 of the most popular group rips in the last couple of months have started very close to or after 11:00 p.m. EST. Tommy says, "don't we work" in regards to the 2pm or 4pm start time and the answer is yes... hence the reason I'm in bed before 11:00 p.m.
<< <i>I know everyone can't be pleased but 2 of the most popular group rips in the last couple of months have started very close to or after 11:00 p.m. EST. Tommy says, "don't we work" in regards to the 2pm or 4pm start time and the answer is yes... hence the reason I'm in bed before 11:00 p.m. >>
I hear ya... I too missed the last one that's why I e-mailed to run this one. The plan was not start it that late just kind off happened that way.
If using paypal please note the 1975 mini 7 box break. Also please figure out your shipping level based on the information below.
1-5 packs---->$3.00 plus insurance (optional, but recommended) 6 packs or more---->$5.00 plus insurance (optional) $15.00 UPS on full boxes and insurance is included
The added insurance rates are exactly what www.usps.com has listed: Amount for Merchandise Insurance Coverage Desired Price1 $0.01 to $50 $1.80 $50.01 to $100 $2.30 $100.01 to $200 $2.85 $200.01 to $300 $4.75 $300.01 to $5,000 (maximum liability is $5,000)
Please post after you have paid and I will mark you off on the 1st page.
I'm on the sidelines here...too strapped for cash to participate and don't collect baseball in the first place.
The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair.
From what I understand, a partial case was made available by BBCE at the group discount for a grouprip and, very quickly, a few members here acted in greed and demanded they should be able to buy complete boxes.
For a rip that sold sooo quick...there's a lot of genuine interest and I wholeheartedly believe there were enough packs to go around. Having a two pack limit while others get boxes and 6 pack lots leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
People are upset over the time it went live, well, this wouldn't have been an issue whatsoever if enough product was made available for the members here.
There will be more and more members interested in joining this rip today, tomorrow and the rest of the week ~unfortunately they will not be able to.
** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
Respectfully disagree. If this had been opened to packs only first with a reasonable limit there would have been several full boxes left after the first 24 hours (or 48 hours) that could have then been allocated on a lottery system.
Timing is less of an issue when there is amply supply (remember the 1975 rack box rip a few weeks ago?).
While I disagree with Patrick on the "greed" aspect, I think that the allocation approach could have been thought through a little better so that more people could participate. And there are going to be more than a few people who are left out of this break.
There is no black and white here, but when 1) the whole break is filled within 13 hours, 2) nearly 75% of the supply goes into the hands of the 5 people who got full box slots and 3) some people get to get a 6-pack slot in box 6 plus as 2-pack slot in box 7 all within the first 24 hour "limit" period when others did not get a single slot it's pretty clear that things could have been designed better.
Lets stop talking how it could have been done different..
we all could have ran this and we didn't.. there will be more rips.. this product seems to keep popping up... there were a ton of cases sold about 2 yrs ago
Everyone could we please just put this to rest and move on... no one stepped up and offered to set this up there was a bunch of random posting throughout the day. After e-mailing Steve and talking with someone already working with Steve I set this up and went forward with a plan that allowed some people who really wanted boxes to get them. Personally I was not in the market for a box but would have taken 1/2 or 1/3 of a box. I tried to be fair to everyone that posted (knowing full well it's impossible to please everyone) and I'm sorry if some people got left out - I know it's sucks it's happened to me a few times. If others have ideas on how things should be split please feel free to jump in and run the next group rip. It's not fun to be ripped even though the ripping has not been fully directed at me personally.
<< <i>The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair. >>
I disagree with this point. Not to allow the product to stay somewhat intact for those that prefer to keep vintage packs unopened would have been unfair in my opinion. If the sole purpose of the group breaks/rips is to open product and show what you got to fellow board members than I can agree somewhat. But I have found when this type of item is offered, many want the product more as a group break only. If I buy into a break, then I want to keep a box unopened. When a case like 75 mini topps is up for a break and I can jump in, I would only do so if I could buy a box to keep sealed.
<< <i> Virgin boxes need to be preserved ... or at least have the immediate option to be.
This is why it's important to let buyers get in on full boxes from the start.
That said, if anyone is complaining about not getting a box or packs they should stop. You could have always bought the case from Steve directly but you chose to take part in a group rip and with that comes the pros and cons!
These boxes are scarce and there's gonna be strong competition, so strap yourselves in ... it'll only get more nuts as time passes. >>
+1
<< <i>no matter how much you try to, you simply can't please everyone. >>
A code of ethics might be a good idea to start with. I will agree with whatever the group decides as that is fair. I just wanted others to know that breaking down the product to the pack level is not necesarily seen as the fairest method by all of us!
Will any of you fine gentlemen - upon opening your packs - please hook me up with three lousy pack-fresh commons so that I can finally scratch off 1975 Mini's off my "sets to finish"???
<< <i>Will any of you fine gentlemen - upon opening your packs - please hook me up with three lousy pack-fresh commons so that I can finally scratch off 1975 Mini's off my "sets to finish"???
Just three commons and my set is complete.
#561....#589....#628 >>
more than happy to send them your way if I pull them!
<< <i>A code of ethics might be a good idea to start with. I will agree with whatever the group decides as that is fair. I just wanted others to know that breaking down the product to the pack level is not necesarily seen as the fairest method by all of us!
aconte >>
Work has already started on this. Please see thread about what the best time to start breaks/rips is. We'll develop it from there.
Paid for my two packs and I will post results when I rip them.
** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
I really didn't want to deconstruct this point by point, but.........
I'm on the sidelines here...too strapped for cash to participate and don't collect baseball in the first place.
"The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair."
Wrong. Many people wanted full boxes to leave intact. Those people should've had an opportunity to buy FULL BOXES just as the rest wanted packs. That is "disgustingly unfair"? LOL!!!!!
"From what I understand, a partial case was made available by BBCE at the group discount for a group rip and, very quickly, a few members here acted in greed and demanded they should be able to buy complete boxes."
Wait a second here. Who stated that 7 boxes were being made available to be busted? Do you think Steve Hart is offering up product on the premise that it MUST be busted? Hilarious. Yes, I suppose those of us that wanted boxes were supposed to wait for those boxes for the January auction to magically appear. As for the greed comment, I'll leave that one alone. It speaks for itself. As if pack busting was a purely altruistic endeavor.
"For a rip that sold sooo quick...there's a lot of genuine interest and I wholeheartedly believe there were enough packs to go around. Having a two pack limit while others get boxes and 6 pack lots leaves a bad taste in my mouth."
Why? You said you're not concerned about baseball. Frankly, members are lucky that Steve didn't sell it all off his website. He probably could have. If you had a better alternative, let's see it. Otherwise, don't gripe about how it was done.
"People are upset over the time it went live, well, this wouldn't have been an issue whatsoever if enough product was made available for the members here."
What is Steve supposed to do, offer up 10 cases to CU members only? Or maybe just "spread the wealth" and limit it to one pack per member. Yeah, 252 individual transactions. That'd be fun. Oh, and on the time issue - when premium product like this is "reserved" for the board, doing a thread at 11:30 est isn't the best time.
"There will be more and more members interested in joining this rip today, tomorrow and the rest of the week ~unfortunately they will not be able to."
Really? What about those who wanted boxes yesterday but could not be here for the "official thread"? Oh, I forgot, they're not "ripping" the boxes so they don't get priority. I got outbid on Ebay yesterday, wah, it's life.
I'll stick to what I said originally. Wrong on every point.
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports. Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Thank you sir! I am relatively new to vintage collecting in general. I will definitely be opening them I dont have the will power to leave them unopened. I don't know how people with the whole boxes/cases do it!
and...
I am PAID IN FULL!! Can't wait to see all of the breaks. Good luck everyone! I will post what I get so that I may help others if I can
With the rips going the way they have been, i.e. late start times, disagreement over amounts, etc. this is what I forsee happening. More people will start scanning the BBCE website and buying whole boxes before they have a chance to be broken on the CU boards. Some of you may disagree but watch and see...
I'm sure plenty of people scan the BBCE site now looking for unopened items anyway so I don't forsee any real difference there. With regard to the higher-priced boxes, the pool of potential customers is rather limited to begin with.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I really didn't want to deconstruct this point by point, but.........
I'm on the sidelines here...too strapped for cash to participate and don't collect baseball in the first place.
"The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair."
Wrong. Many people wanted full boxes to leave intact. Those people should've had an opportunity to buy FULL BOXES just as the rest wanted packs. That is "disgustingly unfair"? LOL!!!!!
"From what I understand, a partial case was made available by BBCE at the group discount for a group rip and, very quickly, a few members here acted in greed and demanded they should be able to buy complete boxes."
Wait a second here. Who stated that 7 boxes were being made available to be busted? Do you think Steve Hart is offering up product on the premise that it MUST be busted? Hilarious. Yes, I suppose those of us that wanted boxes were supposed to wait for those boxes for the January auction to magically appear. As for the greed comment, I'll leave that one alone. It speaks for itself. As if pack busting was a purely altruistic endeavor.
"For a rip that sold sooo quick...there's a lot of genuine interest and I wholeheartedly believe there were enough packs to go around. Having a two pack limit while others get boxes and 6 pack lots leaves a bad taste in my mouth."
Why? You said you're not concerned about baseball. Frankly, members are lucky that Steve didn't sell it all off his website. He probably could have. If you had a better alternative, let's see it. Otherwise, don't gripe about how it was done.
"People are upset over the time it went live, well, this wouldn't have been an issue whatsoever if enough product was made available for the members here."
What is Steve supposed to do, offer up 10 cases to CU members only? Or maybe just "spread the wealth" and limit it to one pack per member. Yeah, 252 individual transactions. That'd be fun. Oh, and on the time issue - when premium product like this is "reserved" for the board, doing a thread at 11:30 est isn't the best time.
"There will be more and more members interested in joining this rip today, tomorrow and the rest of the week ~unfortunately they will not be able to."
Really? What about those who wanted boxes yesterday but could not be here for the "official thread"? Oh, I forgot, they're not "ripping" the boxes so they don't get priority. I got outbid on Ebay yesterday, wah, it's life.
I'll stick to what I said originally. Wrong on every point. >>
I think you should have left the sleeping dog lying on this one. It's that kind of attitude, the inability to have some understanding of and empathy for others' point of view, that continues to gnaw at American society today.
Clearly some "middle ground" between packs and full boxes was appropriate, but to read into Patrick's comments your sentiments does not seem fair. Patrick's point is that this is a "community" of many dozens of, if not even more than 100, people. Steve made 7 boxes available for the community (not necessarily for pack breakage or full box allocation). It was up to the COMMUNITY to figure out a reasonable balance that allowed both kinds of buyers to participate such that the majority of Forum members would benefit.
Setting things up so that such a small percentage of the community got to receive such a high percentage of the items hardly seems to pass the "sniff" test. You're in a very weak position if you try to argue that the majority of members of this thread were best served by the allocation that was used. The speed at which the whole thing filled up, the fact that some people got more than a single "slot" in the first 24 hours and the number of people who will end up being shut out make it clear that other approaches (some of which have been posted already) would been more equitable.
As for the start time, based on the number of previous breaks/rips where this issue has been raised I don't think there is a leg to stand on in terms of arguing against this. No reasonable person can claim that, given the multiple time zones across which this forum runs, that some can be given an advantage/disadvantage based on when the official "start" time happens. More than once it has been requested that the playing field be leveled in this regard, and that does not seem to be unreasonable.
The world is already far enough to the dog-eat-dog side, isn't it? To say (paraphrased), "...That's life (deal with it)..." is a bit sad if you ask me. Aren't we all just a little bit better than that?
I give a lot of credit to Jasen and the others who organized this effort. I know that they did everything with the best of intentions, and I think the constructive feedback is going to lead to future efforts that are even better than this one. I also will point out that Steve Hart, while being an all-around super guy, is also in business. He gives this forum special considerations because he knows which side his bread is buttered on. While getting things turned over as quickly and efficiently as possible is of interest to him, he also understands the value of having broad-based appeal and support from members of this community. He certainly never intended to have "252 individual transactions" but if he had 50-60 different satisfied customers out of this instead of roughly 1/2 of that I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't have minded the extra work.
In any event, we're working on improving future breaks/rips here now. I hope you will add your ideas to that effort, as we need to find a good balance between many points of view.
<< <i>With the rips going the way they have been, i.e. late start times, disagreement over amounts, etc. this is what I forsee happening. More people will start scanning the BBCE website and buying whole boxes before they have a chance to be broken on the CU boards. Some of you may disagree but watch and see... >>
Interesting point Neal. Hopefully getting in place the group Code of Ethics on this will help deter this. It would be a shame if group breaks/rips became more infrequent due to this kind of behavior.
Comments
and I agree with 70Toppsfanatic.
"Molon Labe"
P.S. Oh, and RonBurgundy, I agree that your name should have been on the list at #3 BUT I disagree that "garden variety" rips don't generate as much interest. I know that 70ToppsFanatic sold a couple boxes out rather quickly and I can't even keep track of how many "garden variety" group rips that have sold out the last couple months. I'd also like to point out that they generate "more interest" than anything as we seem to gain new forum members every time we have one. Yes, it's not one 20K case but I wouldn't doubt Steve meets that mark or more when we have the larger ones. I do recall having a few easily in the 5 figure range. If I have mistaken your point, then I'll just sit back on the porch.
Put me down for 2...
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
I guess when a new thread is started for the topic, the statements made in a prior thread about that same topic are treated as if they never existed.
Ah, well. Enjoy.
Thanks
<< <i>So even though I was like the first or second person to say I'd want a box, somehow I got boxed out? (yeah, I had to)
I guess when a new thread is started for the topic, the statements made in a prior thread about that same topic are treated as if they never existed.
Ah, well. Enjoy. >>
Matty,
I have already expressed my opinions about ways that this could have been done more equitably. Having said that, I am 100% convinced
that the organizers of this effort had nothing but the best of intents. While I understand your feelings I would hope that you would try to
temper those feelings.
I sent a PM to several of the people who put this break together and I made some suggestions about how we might approach similar situations
in the future. I am going to share those ideas here briefly:
1) In a situation like this I think that using the initial 24 hours for "pack" requests (with a max of say 6) and an option to move up to a full box
if available after 24 hours might have worked better. Or perhaps initially reserving 5 boxes for pack requests during the first 24 hours and then
re-allocating left-overs to full boxes after 24 hours had passed before accepting additional pack requests. The is obviously no perfect solution
that will please everyone.
2) I continue to put forth that working collaboratively for the best interests of all will serve us better in the long run. It can help keep buying
prices lower. It can encourage new interest/growth in the number of people that enjoy our passion for this (which may help those of us who eventually plan on selling of items in their collections). It allows the enjoyment we all get from older vinatge material to be shared by as wide an audience as possible.
3) I think CU group break should start at a "neutral" time that doesn't favor/disadvantage any particular time zone. Perhaps 2PM Eastern / 11AM Western
or 4PM Eastern / 1PM Western. I think we should pre-announce the official start of a break in the official at least 24 hours in advance so that everyone has fair notice. No requests prior to the official start time get honored. That way no one has an advantage/disadvantage.
Lastly, I think that we need to keep some perspective of scarecity in mind when running group breaks. For less common items we should have some respect for allowing such items the chance to stay intact with a collector instead of just suggesting an immediate rip. It would have been a shame to see that 1972 series 1 Topps baseball wax box get broken before giving it a few days to remain intact, as they are certainly a lot less common than 1975 Topps mini unopened wax boxes.
This may sound a bit silly, but at the end of the day if we all try to make our "community" a place where we help
each other and try to balance our self-interests with the groups interests I think everyone will benefit.
Just my opinion, but I commit to this group to try to act with these ideals in mind.
Regards to All
Dave
Dave
or 4PM Eastern / 1PM Western. I think we should pre-announce the official start of a break in the official at least 24 hours in advance so that everyone has fair notice. No requests prior to the official start time get honored. That way no one has an advantage/disadvantage.
q]
This is the main rule that needs to apply...
<< <i>2 PM or 4 PM? Don't you people work? lol >>
LOL. Please see my new thread on this topic and express your ideas.
Dave
<< <i>3) I think CU group break should start at a "neutral" time that doesn't favor/disadvantage any particular time zone. Perhaps 2PM Eastern / 11AM Western
or 4PM Eastern / 1PM Western. I think we should pre-announce the official start of a break in the official at least 24 hours in advance so that everyone has fair notice. No requests prior to the official start time get honored. That way no one has an advantage/disadvantage.
q]
This is the main rule that needs to apply... >>
I agree 100% and fully apologize for the late start... I was working going back and forth with Steve and just did not have time to post till later in the night when I could monitor the boards and answer questions.
if there was an attempt to establish even a modest Code of Ethics here with regards to the group rips, at least all of those who are informed and interested would have a fighting chance.
it still wouldn't please everyone after the goods are sold, but it might limit the amount of displeasure with the process.
there should be as many people involved with this as possible, so for the long haul those same people will keep coming back as participants, otherwise it's just a small society of big players.
<< <i>no matter how much you try to, you simply can't please everyone.
if there was an attempt to establish even a modest Code of Ethics here with regards to the group rips, at least all of those who are informed and interested would have a fighting chance.
it still wouldn't please everyone after the goods are sold, but it might limit the amount of displeasure with the process.
there should be as many people involved with this as possible, so for the long haul those same people will keep coming back as participants, otherwise it's just a small society of big players. >>
Well Said!!!!
Dave
$15.00 UPS and insurance is included
If you purchased a full box please feel free to contact the BBCE and pay. Everyone else please wait till boxes 6 and 7 sellout to pay.
thanks!
<< <i>I know everyone can't be pleased but 2 of the most popular group rips in the last couple of months have started very close to or after 11:00 p.m. EST. Tommy says, "don't we work" in regards to the 2pm or 4pm start time and the answer is yes... hence the reason I'm in bed before 11:00 p.m. >>
I hear ya... I too missed the last one that's why I e-mailed to run this one. The plan was not start it that late just kind off happened that way.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Thanks!
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
pp id: bbcexchange@sprintmail.com
phone number: 800-598-8656
If using paypal please note the 1975 mini 7 box break. Also please figure out your shipping level based on the information below.
1-5 packs---->$3.00 plus insurance (optional, but recommended)
6 packs or more---->$5.00 plus insurance (optional)
$15.00 UPS on full boxes and insurance is included
The added insurance rates are exactly what www.usps.com has listed:
Amount for Merchandise
Insurance Coverage Desired Price1
$0.01 to $50 $1.80
$50.01 to $100 $2.30
$100.01 to $200 $2.85
$200.01 to $300 $4.75
$300.01 to $5,000
(maximum liability is $5,000)
Please post after you have paid and I will mark you off on the 1st page.
The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair.
From what I understand, a partial case was made available by BBCE at the group discount for a group rip and, very quickly, a few members here acted in greed and demanded they should be able to buy complete boxes.
For a rip that sold sooo quick...there's a lot of genuine interest and I wholeheartedly believe there were enough packs to go around. Having a two pack limit while others get boxes and 6 pack lots leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
People are upset over the time it went live, well, this wouldn't have been an issue whatsoever if enough product was made available for the members here.
There will be more and more members interested in joining this rip today, tomorrow and the rest of the week ~unfortunately they will not be able to.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>Wrong on every point. (sigh) >>
I disagree
<< <i>Wrong on every point. (sigh) >>
Respectfully disagree. If this had been opened to packs only first with a reasonable limit there would have been
several full boxes left after the first 24 hours (or 48 hours) that could have then been allocated on a lottery system.
Timing is less of an issue when there is amply supply (remember the 1975 rack box rip a few weeks ago?).
While I disagree with Patrick on the "greed" aspect, I think that the allocation approach could have been thought
through a little better so that more people could participate. And there are going to be more than a few people
who are left out of this break.
There is no black and white here, but when 1) the whole break is filled within 13 hours, 2) nearly 75% of the supply goes into
the hands of the 5 people who got full box slots and 3) some people get to get a 6-pack slot in box 6 plus as 2-pack slot in
box 7 all within the first 24 hour "limit" period when others did not get a single slot it's pretty clear that things could have been
designed better.
Dave
we all could have ran this and we didn't..
there will be more rips.. this product seems to keep popping up... there were a ton of cases sold
about 2 yrs ago
with that said...
I am PAID in full
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
<< <i>The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair. >>
I disagree with this point. Not to allow the product to stay somewhat intact for those that prefer to keep vintage packs unopened would have been unfair in my opinion.
If the sole purpose of the group breaks/rips is to open product and show what you got to fellow board members than I can agree somewhat. But I have found when
this type of item is offered, many want the product more as a group break only. If I buy into a break, then I want to keep a box unopened. When a case like 75 mini topps
is up for a break and I can jump in, I would only do so if I could buy a box to keep sealed.
<< <i> Virgin boxes need to be preserved ... or at least have the immediate option to be.
This is why it's important to let buyers get in on full boxes from the start.
That said, if anyone is complaining about not getting a box or packs they should stop. You could have always bought the case from Steve directly but you chose to take part in a group rip and with that comes the pros and cons!
These boxes are scarce and there's gonna be strong competition, so strap yourselves in ... it'll only get more nuts as time passes. >>
+1
<< <i>no matter how much you try to, you simply can't please everyone. >>
A code of ethics might be a good idea to start with. I will agree with whatever the group decides as that is fair. I just wanted others to know that breaking down the
product to the pack level is not necesarily seen as the fairest method by all of us!
aconte
aconte
Just three commons and my set is complete.
#561....#589....#628
<< <i>Will any of you fine gentlemen - upon opening your packs - please hook me up with three lousy pack-fresh commons so that I can finally scratch off 1975 Mini's off my "sets to finish"???
Just three commons and my set is complete.
#561....#589....#628 >>
more than happy to send them your way if I pull them!
<< <i>A code of ethics might be a good idea to start with. I will agree with whatever the group decides as that is fair. I just wanted others to know that breaking down the
product to the pack level is not necesarily seen as the fairest method by all of us!
aconte >>
Work has already started on this. Please see thread about what the best time to start breaks/rips is. We'll develop it from there.
Dave
I'm on the sidelines here...too strapped for cash to participate and don't collect baseball in the first place.
"The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair."
Wrong. Many people wanted full boxes to leave intact. Those people should've had an opportunity to buy FULL BOXES just as the rest wanted packs. That is "disgustingly unfair"? LOL!!!!!
"From what I understand, a partial case was made available by BBCE at the group discount for a group rip and, very quickly, a few members here acted in greed and demanded they should be able to buy complete boxes."
Wait a second here. Who stated that 7 boxes were being made available to be busted? Do you think Steve Hart is offering up product on the premise that it MUST be busted? Hilarious. Yes, I suppose those of us that wanted boxes were supposed to wait for those boxes for the January auction to magically appear. As for the greed comment, I'll leave that one alone. It speaks for itself. As if pack busting was a purely altruistic endeavor.
"For a rip that sold sooo quick...there's a lot of genuine interest and I wholeheartedly believe there were enough packs to go around. Having a two pack limit while others get boxes and 6 pack lots leaves a bad taste in my mouth."
Why? You said you're not concerned about baseball. Frankly, members are lucky that Steve didn't sell it all off his website. He probably could have. If you had a better alternative, let's see it. Otherwise, don't gripe about how it was done.
"People are upset over the time it went live, well, this wouldn't have been an issue whatsoever if enough product was made available for the members here."
What is Steve supposed to do, offer up 10 cases to CU members only? Or maybe just "spread the wealth" and limit it to one pack per member. Yeah, 252 individual transactions. That'd be fun. Oh, and on the time issue - when premium product like this is "reserved" for the board, doing a thread at 11:30 est isn't the best time.
"There will be more and more members interested in joining this rip today, tomorrow and the rest of the week ~unfortunately they will not be able to."
Really? What about those who wanted boxes yesterday but could not be here for the "official thread"? Oh, I forgot, they're not "ripping" the boxes so they don't get priority. I got outbid on Ebay yesterday, wah, it's life.
I'll stick to what I said originally. Wrong on every point.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
and...
I am PAID IN FULL!! Can't wait to see all of the breaks. Good luck everyone! I will post what I get so that I may help others if I can
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I really didn't want to deconstruct this point by point, but.........
I'm on the sidelines here...too strapped for cash to participate and don't collect baseball in the first place.
"The boxes should've become available only if the packs didn't sellout. The way this panned out is disgustingly unfair."
Wrong. Many people wanted full boxes to leave intact. Those people should've had an opportunity to buy FULL BOXES just as the rest wanted packs. That is "disgustingly unfair"? LOL!!!!!
"From what I understand, a partial case was made available by BBCE at the group discount for a group rip and, very quickly, a few members here acted in greed and demanded they should be able to buy complete boxes."
Wait a second here. Who stated that 7 boxes were being made available to be busted? Do you think Steve Hart is offering up product on the premise that it MUST be busted? Hilarious. Yes, I suppose those of us that wanted boxes were supposed to wait for those boxes for the January auction to magically appear. As for the greed comment, I'll leave that one alone. It speaks for itself. As if pack busting was a purely altruistic endeavor.
"For a rip that sold sooo quick...there's a lot of genuine interest and I wholeheartedly believe there were enough packs to go around. Having a two pack limit while others get boxes and 6 pack lots leaves a bad taste in my mouth."
Why? You said you're not concerned about baseball. Frankly, members are lucky that Steve didn't sell it all off his website. He probably could have. If you had a better alternative, let's see it. Otherwise, don't gripe about how it was done.
"People are upset over the time it went live, well, this wouldn't have been an issue whatsoever if enough product was made available for the members here."
What is Steve supposed to do, offer up 10 cases to CU members only? Or maybe just "spread the wealth" and limit it to one pack per member. Yeah, 252 individual transactions. That'd be fun. Oh, and on the time issue - when premium product like this is "reserved" for the board, doing a thread at 11:30 est isn't the best time.
"There will be more and more members interested in joining this rip today, tomorrow and the rest of the week ~unfortunately they will not be able to."
Really? What about those who wanted boxes yesterday but could not be here for the "official thread"? Oh, I forgot, they're not "ripping" the boxes so they don't get priority. I got outbid on Ebay yesterday, wah, it's life.
I'll stick to what I said originally. Wrong on every point. >>
I think you should have left the sleeping dog lying on this one. It's that kind of attitude, the inability to have some understanding of and empathy for others' point of view, that continues to gnaw at American society today.
Clearly some "middle ground" between packs and full boxes was appropriate, but to read into Patrick's comments your sentiments does not seem fair. Patrick's point is that this is a "community" of many dozens of, if not even more than 100, people. Steve made 7 boxes available for the community (not necessarily for pack breakage or full box allocation). It was up to the COMMUNITY to figure out a reasonable balance that allowed both kinds of buyers to participate such that the majority of Forum members would benefit.
Setting things up so that such a small percentage of the community got to receive such a high percentage of the items hardly seems to pass the "sniff" test.
You're in a very weak position if you try to argue that the majority of members of this thread were best served by the allocation that was used. The speed at which the whole thing filled up, the fact that some people got more than a single "slot" in the first 24 hours and the number of people who will end up being shut out make it clear that other approaches (some of which have been posted already) would been more equitable.
As for the start time, based on the number of previous breaks/rips where this issue has been raised I don't think there is a leg to stand on in terms of
arguing against this. No reasonable person can claim that, given the multiple time zones across which this forum runs, that some can be given an advantage/disadvantage based on when the official "start" time happens. More than once it has been requested that the playing field be leveled in this regard, and that does not seem to be unreasonable.
The world is already far enough to the dog-eat-dog side, isn't it? To say (paraphrased), "...That's life (deal with it)..." is a bit sad if you ask me.
Aren't we all just a little bit better than that?
I give a lot of credit to Jasen and the others who organized this effort. I know that they did everything with the best of intentions, and I think the
constructive feedback is going to lead to future efforts that are even better than this one. I also will point out that Steve Hart, while being an all-around
super guy, is also in business. He gives this forum special considerations because he knows which side his bread is buttered on. While getting things
turned over as quickly and efficiently as possible is of interest to him, he also understands the value of having broad-based appeal and support from
members of this community. He certainly never intended to have "252 individual transactions" but if he had 50-60 different satisfied customers out of this instead of roughly 1/2 of that I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't have minded the extra work.
In any event, we're working on improving future breaks/rips here now. I hope you will add your ideas to that effort, as we need to find a good balance
between many points of view.
Dave
<< <i>With the rips going the way they have been, i.e. late start times, disagreement over amounts, etc. this is what I forsee happening. More people will start scanning the BBCE website and buying whole boxes before they have a chance to be broken on the CU boards. Some of you may disagree but watch and see... >>
Interesting point Neal. Hopefully getting in place the group Code of Ethics on this will help deter this. It would be a shame if
group breaks/rips became more infrequent due to this kind of behavior.
Dave