Why is Nelson Cruz being compared to Bill Buckner?

TonyC

Nelson Cruz is being labeled the "goat" of the World Series for missing that fly ball that hit the wall. I personally thought that was a very difficult play; he had to play up against the wall, and the ball hit the wall before he even got there. If he wasn't playing deep enough, well, the coaching staff could have instructed him to play deeper at the beginning of the inning, and you can't forsee how deep a ball is going to get hit so it isn't really a "mistake" on his part.

Buckner missed a routine play. Cruz missed a play that would have been a webgem if he made it.

Saberman

It is simple, the media and fans need heroes and goats...that is why myths of 'big game players' get created, and that is why players are sought to wear a goat label.

swartz1

it appeared to me, that he was hesitant to go hard and didnt really "feel" the wall...

he probably could have made a better attempt at it...

Probstein123

from my perspective its a shame that athletes that suck it and play hurt ever get the GOAT label....buckner was really injured and did his best ...
the MANAGER should be the goat for playing him....A-Rod played hurt this year and could have shut it down...the media and fans hammered him...blame should go to Girardi for playing him...
yes, I understand , we expect if athletes that play hurt to produce or they shouldn't be out there...every real guy will wanna play no matter what...
its the managers that should shut them down...
didn't a YOUNGBLOOD brother play in the super bowl with a broken leg...

to me, Buckner is a borderline HOFer and a hero for playing HURT....its the manager that made the bad decision playing him...

itzagoner

anyone labeling Cruz is just an idiot.

the Rangers would not have been competing for the World Series title without his many contributions. he virtually carried that team against the Tigers.

make Ron Washington eat this one. he would tell you the same. he overmanaged Game 6. he was the human sacrifice for Game 7.

swartz1

the Cardinals were down to their last pitch twice in game 6 and he over-managed?


Cardinals were clutch when it counted that game...

seems like the pitchers couldnt get the job done, or the fielders didnt make a play...

frankhardy

There is no way Cruz should be labeled a goat on that play. That ball was hammered. It was no where near a routine play. Yes, the catch COULD HAVE been made, but it was not routine by any stretch.

itzagoner

<< <i>......and he over-managed? >>



yes. absolutely. undoubtedly. go grab a beer and watch it again. the whole "down-to-their-last-pitch" scenario never happens if Wash doesn't get incurable hiccups before those pitches ever happen.

but, grats to him for making it a helluva night.

SDavid

There are videos of that play all over youtube that were shot in the stadium. In real time and at a side angle, the play looks a lot tougher than it looked in Fox's replays.

swartz1

I guess you are right...

and if the Rangers did win...

Larussa would have over-managed, right?

itzagoner

<< <i>I guess you are right...

and if the Rangers did win...

Larussa would have over-managed, right? >>



yes. Game 5.

mlbfan2

<< <i>If he wasn't playing deep enough, well, the coaching staff could have instructed him to play deeper at the beginning of the inning, and you can't forsee how deep a ball is going to get hit so it isn't really a "mistake" on his part. >>



Yes, it would have been a pretty good catch, but it seemed like he was afraid of the fence. He ran hard at first but then slowed down and had to jump, and missed the ball by 2 feet. With the World Series on the line, you expect a player to go all out and crash into the wall. It didn't seem like he did, but maybe he just misjudged the ball.

I don't think where he was playing was an issue. Fielders are sometimes positioned from batter to batter, BTW. You can't really position players at the beginning of an inning because you don't know what the situation will be.

itzagoner

Freese hit that meatball at the end of a noodle.

it was not a lazy fly.

Cokin75

In my view, Cruz choked. He obviously misjudged the ball- I'm not sure whether or not he thought that it wasn't as smoked as it was, or if he thought it was over the fence. At any rate, jogging after the ball like he did... he barely got to the warning track, and not even getting a glove on that ball was inexcusable. Then he lets the ball get past him to allow Berkman (who runs like a 60 year old softball player to score), a lot of people forget this part.

Bottom line, Cardinal fans should be sending this guy thank you cards.

RonBurgundy

I went to probably 20 Rangers games this year & saw many more on tv. I know that team. Here's the deal, folks:

1). Nelson Cruz did not lose them that game. But, the play was bizarre to me because Cruz is actually a very good defensive outfielder. It looked like he could've made the catch. I've seen him make tougher catches.

2). Itzagoner is correct. Washington's idiotic managing combined with Feliz refusing to trust his breaking stuff cost them the game. I could write 6 paragraphs about how they lost, but here's two examples: the Rangers made deadline deals to get Mike Adams & Michael Gonzalez. Adams was given the setup role, Gonzalez a flame throwing lefty. Guess who starts the 8th inning in Game 6? Adams? No, Wash continued on with Derek Holland. He gives up a home run that cut the lead to 2. The guy you traded for doesn't get the ball in a WS closeout game? WTF? And yet Wash just smiles & skates by while people roast TLR for his Game 5 moves. Then, instead of bringing on hard thrower Gonzalez - OR BETTER YET, give the ball back to Feliz in the 10th - he brings on beer league softball pitcher Darren Oliver to close it out.

You can't make this stupidity up, yet I saw it with my own 2 eyes. Yeah, Nellie Cruz lost the Rangers the WS. Not even close.

itzagoner

spot on about Derek Holland. if you question why he was left in long enough to serve up Craig's HR, now you're on the right track.

THAT is where the trainwreck began.

SidePocket

My issue with Cruz on that play was that he didn't play the ball off the wall and hold Berkman at third. You can't let the tying run score from first on that play.

PowderedH2O

And if Nelson Cruz makes a dive for the ball and misses and crashes into the wall and the ball trickles out and Berkman scores, he's an idiot for not playing the ball off of the wall. No win situation. Cruz did what he did. He didn't lose the game.

VitoCo1972

Much more home plate umpire Jerry Layne that's the goat to me. The awful balls and strikes in Game 7 ruined the series. Not punching out Molina in the 5th changed the whole game (plus the Freese At Bat where he hit the HR was atrocious). I had no dog in the fight nut he ruined a great series.

Piggs

His fault or not, it will be one of the most remembered plays in Word Series history. I give the Cardinals hitters full credit for fighting back even with one strike left......Twice!

Toro

<< <i>My issue with Cruz on that play was that he didn't play the ball off the wall and hold Berkman at third. You can't let the tying run score from first on that play. >>



That's the tough part, I guarantee you that was going through his head when the ball was hit.....play it off the wall or try for the catch...which was why he may have hesitated.....the bottom line is, it was a triple by Freese....not an error by Cruz.

CrazyMind2017

The problem for Texas began on Thursday when their manager announced Matt Harrison and not Derek Holland would be the Game 7 starter. After the way each of them pitched in the third and fourth games, respectively, and considering Holland would have had four full days of rest for Game 7 due to the rainout, this was a complete bonehead move. They're both lefties, so Berkman would have been neutralized either way, and it's not as if Harrison is some experienced veteran who deserved the start based on years of reliability. They're only a year apart in age, both have virtually the same number of innings of MLB experience, and both have similar (and extremely high) career ERA numbers. In this situation, you go with the hot arm, and it was clearly Holland.

By announcing Harrison for Game 7, that made Holland available out of the bullpen in Game 6, and that changed the entire game. Would Texas have won if they'd held back Holland and used a combination of Feldman/Gonzalez/Adams, et. al. instead in the middle innings? Probably not. But they also probably wouldn't have lost in such dramatic and psychologically debilitating fashion and they would have had a better starter lined up for Game 7.

As for the play in right field, it would have been a great catch. That ball was hit a lot better than people realize, and it was by no means an easy play for Cruz. It came up on him quick, and even though it had some elevation, it had very little hang time, which made it more of a line drive than a fly ball. That being said, he didn't put nearly as much effort into as he could have, and that's on him. Due to the way he backed up on the ball, I was absolutely shocked that it hit the wall before it hit his glove. Only after looking at replays and hearing what Harold Reynolds had to say about it after the game did I realize what a great catch it would have been.

I know he's made some great defensive plays, but he's a mediocre defensive outfielder at best, especially when his legs are not 100%. I saw Mike Piazza make a large handful of great defensive plays throughout his career. That doesn't make him a great defensive catcher. Overall, for the duration of his entire career, Piazza was one of the worst defensive catchers in history, but he still had his share of great individual plays. Cruz is not the goat, or least, no more of a goat than the other 24 guys on the roster and the manager. Just because Clemente, Maris, Aaron, or any of the DiMaggios would have made that catch look easy doesn't mean Nelson Cruz deserves to be vilified as a goat. Losing Game 6 was truly a collective effort.

The truth that might be hard for Rangers fans to swallow is that their pitching staff is just not that good. Great pitching stops great hitting, but good pitching doesn't stop good hitting when the hitters are as determined to succeed as the Cardinals were on Thursday night. And mediocre pitching sure doesn't stop good or great hitting in big spots during the World Series. More than anything else, that's why Texas lost. They played tight as a unit and some might interpret that as a choke, but they didn't blow it as much as they got beat by the better team. It's unfortunate for them that they came so close and couldn't finish it, but this was not nearly as much of a choke as Schiraldi and Stanley. Buckner's play happened after the score was already tied, and the Mets were probably going to win the game at that point anyway. So Buckner is mostly an afterthought to me. In 1986, there were four pitches thrown when the Mets were down to their final strike, the last of which was a wild pitch that allowed the tying run to score from third base. I don't care what anybody says - that was much, much , much more of a choke than anything the 2011 Rangers did, and for that reason, the 2011 Cardinals are more deserving of calling themselves World Champions than the 1986 Mets. The Cardinals earned it. The Mets got beat and then had the trophy handed to them by a bunch of gutless pansies who were afraid to win. The only guys on that team who really deserved to win were Evans, Boggs, Barrett, and maybe Henderson. The rest of them sucked.

TNP777

<< <i>Much more home plate umpire Jerry Layne that's the goat to me. The awful balls and strikes in Game 7 ruined the series. Not punching out Molina in the 5th changed the whole game (plus the Freese At Bat where he hit the HR was atrocious). I had no dog in the fight nut he ruined a great series. >>

Failure to call that 3rd strike against Molina was absolutely the pivotal point in game 7. Yes, Texas was down 3-2, but the game looks and feels a lot different when you leave the inning still down one as opposed to being down three. No way Molina should have been taking, especially after showing up the umpire on an obvious 2nd strike. Not only "ball 4" a strike, but Layne should have punched Molina out for not swinging his bat with 2 strikes on a pitch that close.

Washington had his outfield in a "no doubles" defense. Freese smoked that ball, and Cruz missed it. Could he have made a better effort? Perhaps. But he was the one out there, not us. His team is an out away from history, and who's to say how nervous he was as that ball came off the bat?

lanemyer85

<< <i>I went to probably 20 Rangers games this year & saw many more on tv. I know that team. Here's the deal, folks:

1). Nelson Cruz did not lose them that game. But, the play was bizarre to me because Cruz is actually a very good defensive outfielder. It looked like he could've made the catch. I've seen him make tougher catches.

2). Itzagoner is correct. Washington's idiotic managing combined with Feliz refusing to trust his breaking stuff cost them the game. I could write 6 paragraphs about how they lost, but here's two examples: the Rangers made deadline deals to get Mike Adams & Michael Gonzalez. Adams was given the setup role, Gonzalez a flame throwing lefty. Guess who starts the 8th inning in Game 6? Adams? No, Wash continued on with Derek Holland. He gives up a home run that cut the lead to 2. The guy you traded for doesn't get the ball in a WS closeout game? WTF? And yet Wash just smiles & skates by while people roast TLR for his Game 5 moves. Then, instead of bringing on hard thrower Gonzalez - OR BETTER YET, give the ball back to Feliz in the 10th - he brings on beer league softball pitcher Darren Oliver to close it out.

You can't make this stupidity up, yet I saw it with my own 2 eyes. Yeah, Nellie Cruz lost the Rangers the WS. Not even close. >>




A) it was not an easy catch, but given that the Rangers were in no doubles mode, it was certainly a play that could have been made by even an average RFer. Shin Soo Choo makes that catch.

Cruz is not a good defensive OFer. He was well below average at least this season. Great arm, decent glove, awful route taker. +2 defensive runs saved in 2011 is well below average, and those he did save were likely due to his arm. His UZR/150 is awful at -7.9...and for a guy with above average speed, his range factor was also in negative digits at -1.5.

C) if he's going to be compared to anyone defensively, it should be Alfonso Soriano considering he's also allergic to the wall....but at least in Soriano's case, his wall contains bricks.

RonBurgundy

Whatever, he wasn't responsible for the loss. Contribute to the train wreck, certainly. But he wasn't the conductor.

Toro

<< <i>but Layne should have punched Molina out for not swinging his bat with 2 strikes on a pitch that close. >>



I agree on this point, it's Game 7 of the World Series....close calls on a full count should go to the pitcher....make them work for it

lanemyer85

<< <i>Whatever, he wasn't responsible for the loss. Contribute to the train wreck, certainly. But he wasn't the conductor. >>



I didn't say he was solely responsible. Even Washington wasn't solely responsible though I think he deserves the lion's share of the blame . Wilson & Ogando's inability to throw strikes didn't help matters, and the Cardinals received a good deal of fortunate bounces. From Jackson's bunt which was 6 inches from being a triple play to Mother Nature's clear hatred for the Rangers.

thenavarro

The bottom line is the Rangers didn't get it done. No matter who is to blame. Last time I checked, it's a team game. 2nd place is the first loser. I hope it gnaws at every one of them the whole off season and maybe they'll do something about it next year, maybe not.

There's not a single Ranger that played in the Series that couldn't have done a better job, period. They are ALL to blame.

MCMLVTopps

What thenavarro said.

Cheap shot, childlike and poor sportsmanship are attributes I would assign to those who are slamming Cruz. Wasn't he the MVP of the ALCS with 6 homers? Hey, it's baseball, stuff happens. Maybe the lights got in his eyes, maybe he just misjudged the ball...he missed it, 2 runs score and Freese looks like a hero...da game is ovah...move on. I'm not a Ranger's fan, but I was pulling for them, I thought they were the better team, things somehow just got away from them and they lost. No shame there.

As a long time Red Sox fan, we've endured our fair share of "oops moments", Bucky Dent, Aaron Boone and the Bill Buckner faux pas among others. As for the Buckner issue in '86, had McNamara had his head screwed on straight he wouldh've DH'd Buckner and put Don Baylor at first. Everybody knew Buckner's agility wasn't so hot...given of course the fact that at that particular moment it did appear that any little leaguer couldh've caught that ball. It is what it is. I must say, it was nice to see the Red Sox fans give him a huge standing ovation when he returned and walked in from the outfield, I believe this year or last. He and his family were hounded without mercy for quite a while.

Like the guy that needed security to get our of Wrigley Field, he almost had to move to Pluto to have a life. Clearly the ball was foul...and let's not foget how inept the Cubs played after that incident.

Team sport, win together, lose together.

illinifan912

if he is buckner then pujols is lebron with 2 rings. 1 good game in the ws and not much of a factor in the others,

WinPitcher

It's the Yankees fault.

stangrider

Bringing in 41 yr old Darren Oliver to attempt to "save" the game was what I saw as the Rangers downfall. I don't care if Neftali threw 23 pitches and blew it the inning before, his stuff is 2million times better than Oliver's.

flash300

My goat goes to ogando and washington. ogando could not hit the plate if it was a semi and washington for bringing him in with the bases loaded

Tabe

Sorry guys, going half-speed for a ball that you end up missing by only 2 feet is inexcusable. Any average RF'er makes that play easily.

Tabe

RoarIn84

Cruz was NOT at no-doubles depth at the time like he should have been. You need to be mere steps from the track and he was playing too shallow. He should have only had to jog over a little ways to nab it. That said, Cruz is hardly a 'goat' by any stretch.

goose3

I saw it completely differently than the rest of you and I had no dog in the fight....

When it happened I thought it looked like he was clearly trying to make a somewhat difficult catch made more difficult because it was NOT on his home field. He looked unsure of the wall or something in St. Louis. At home he makes that catch every time.

Just my 2c

itzagoner

hey Goose, how 'bout your ol' buddy Jake Westbrook???

got credit for the victory in Game 6. making the most out of a very brief moment in the spotlight.

zep33

Too much beer and chicken

zep33

Not enough beer and chicken

jamesryanbell

<< <i>Sorry guys, going half-speed for a ball that you end up missing by only 2 feet is inexcusable. Any average RF'er makes that play easily.

Tabe >>



I think you need to watch it again. That was a TOUGH play for a GOOD RFer to make.

Ironmanfan

Nick Markakis makes that catch barehanded

IMF

CrazyMind2017

<< <i>Nick Markakis makes that catch barehanded

IMF >>



Paul O'Neill makes that catch with his feet!

mlbfan2

Jose Canseco deflects it over the fence with his head.

itzagoner

<< <i>Jose Canseco deflects it over the fence with his head. >>



and Jeffrey Maier is there to glove the carom.

itzagoner

wait. wait. i gotta million of 'em.

even Steve Bartman makes that catch.

A.J. Pierzynski got so excited in the Fox booth, he tried to run to first and needed to be restrained.

Tabe

<< <i>

<< <i>Sorry guys, going half-speed for a ball that you end up missing by only 2 feet is inexcusable. Any average RF'er makes that play easily.

Tabe >>



I think you need to watch it again. That was a TOUGH play for a GOOD RFer to make. >>


I'm thinking the 20 or 30 times I've already seen it are enough. The guy wasn't going full-speed and barely missed it. That pretty much sums it up.

Tabe

swartz1

If this were a regular season game, I'd give him a pass...

he has to make a better play on the ball (even if he is just a DH)

no excuses...