The Plastic Quest -- 2 Years of Doilies & Related Rare Holders
DRUNNER
Posts: 3,868 ✭✭✭✭✭
Forum Members . . . . . . .
Narrowing in on 2 years of the Doily Hunt, and perhaps a bit of a time to update and pass on what I have learned from others during this quest.
First and foremost, a realization and thank-you to so many Forum members who have to varying degrees assisted me in finding, purchasing, and catergorizing this (to me) fascinating subset to the PCGS hobby. Always remember, my hunt for the Doilies has come AFTER a lifetime of collecting, finishing original sets, and competing on the Registries. I think I had the choice of going after Large Cents or looking for an area that had minimal prior interest. Being 'me', I went for the minimal interest -- the Doilies. Not wanting to be a 'follower' of anyone, I decided to embark on my own hunt for the 'Doilies'. To each his own, and although our EAC members would shudder to think of the analogy, I set out on this hunt. But let's not be distracted . . . . . I owe much to many on these Boards I will never get a chance to meet. The Boards and their contacts here have certainly been a positive for my hunt for the Doilies, but that pales in relation to the friends, advice, and help I have received here that has been invaluable. To all of you, and you know who you are . . . I am in your debt and will not forget.
Yes, perhaps I have fueled a bit of the rise of interest, but check out that recent CA Commem -- I was the underbidder and didn't even win it! I have never attempted to vary or waver from my goal of providing a window of grading in that December '89 to January '90 that the Doily so importantly shows. Many over the last 24 months have stated that I'll "lose money" on the hunt, but that is not the direction of the quest. The direction is to look at the grading, preserve the window into a very short phase of coin evaluation, and 'advance the body of knowledge' (as I tell my Junior English students when they construct a thesis statement for a paper). In the end, we'll submit the entire collection to CAC and get an unbiased view. I hope this will be acceptable to PCGS and the posting rules here. That will be my 'end goal' for the Boards.
So . . . . . .where are we? After 2 years, here is what I have noticed:
1.) Oreville is prescient. The NGC 2.0 and 2.1 are light years more rare than a Doily. If you want to collect a rare holder, case closed. I have -107- Doilies, and -4- NGC 2.1s. Trust me, I search for both. Moral of the story? Always trust your elders. Perhaps not 'elders' in age, but experience trumps age 10-fold. Oreville was right. I 'bow down' to the Master. (Oh, but the NGC 'Black' will never be topped. I have the Peace Dollar!!!)
2.) eBay Doilies will always be the bellweather for how much they 'go' for. I can always find a Doily from a personal contact a lot cheaper than I can find one from an eBay auction. Perhaps it is the automatic eBay fees that jack up a Doily . . . perhaps it is the wider audience? No worry. I like eBay for the 'current market' . . . but I don't like it to buy from that site as I'll get jacked up by some poser!!!!!
3.) Billet7 is a stud. Who here would be willing to devote a chunk of their time to a totally RANDOM effort to catalogue any type of PCGS holder? He doesn't get paid. He doesn't even get a LICK of thanks from any of you . . . and yet he trudges on. My vote for PCGS Board Member of the Year.
4.) Hunting for a eclectic item like a Doily requires direction. You can be a bit too vocal, or perhaps not enough. See #1 above. A mentor is very valuable.
5.) The Doily IS truly 'rare'. Yes, it is plastic, but the vast majority were cracked, blown apart, nuked, and incinerated in the hopes of getting the almighty upgrade. Remember, this was the era of the $500 MS65 Morgan !! Any wonder why the Morgie has so many survivors in the Doily holder???
6.) "Connections' mean so much more than eBay. If you ever search for an esoteric item, a 'connection' and subsequent purchase, trumps anything from a public site. Cultivate 'connections', regardless of your numismatic 'bent'. Another 'thanks' to my connections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7.) The Conder101 links (hit the 'Search' function) on old holders are invaluable. Want to get 'holder smart' in a hurry? Go to those links.
8.) The Doily Premium diminishes as the basic cost of the coin increases. A Merc Dime in MS65 may go for $125 in a Doily (for a $35 coin), but you won't see a Saint go for $5000 (for a $1900 coin). Why? Every schmuck who reads these Boards can afford $125 for the Doily Merc . . . . but you think they're going to go after the Saint when they have to buy baby formula and pay the rent? Supply and demand.
9.) The Doilies are diminishing. Yup . . . gramps old safety-deposit-box will still yield a rare holder or two until 2040, but the interest in the Doilies has driven a lot of the odd ones out. Rarity? Don't always just think of December '89 -- January '90. Think 'slabbing rate' !! The rate of slabbing at that time was MINISCULE compared to now. That is the function of rarity.
10.) This 'Winger's' burger is really good . . . even reheated from last Wednesday. With a little rum-n-Coke, I can survive this Saturday with style!
OK. Thanks to many. I hope this has been worth the hassle of reading (for the few of you who actually did). The hunt remains alive; the CAC submission is in the future, and the desire to acquire more and rarer Doilies will live on. You all are important and I again state my dedicated thanks to many here who have helped me in the hunt with little or no acclaim.
Drunner
'Doily Slut' of the Boards
October 2011
(edited to reflect this is 2011 . . . not 2010. A bit too much plastic and not enough attention to what year we are living in !!!)
Narrowing in on 2 years of the Doily Hunt, and perhaps a bit of a time to update and pass on what I have learned from others during this quest.
First and foremost, a realization and thank-you to so many Forum members who have to varying degrees assisted me in finding, purchasing, and catergorizing this (to me) fascinating subset to the PCGS hobby. Always remember, my hunt for the Doilies has come AFTER a lifetime of collecting, finishing original sets, and competing on the Registries. I think I had the choice of going after Large Cents or looking for an area that had minimal prior interest. Being 'me', I went for the minimal interest -- the Doilies. Not wanting to be a 'follower' of anyone, I decided to embark on my own hunt for the 'Doilies'. To each his own, and although our EAC members would shudder to think of the analogy, I set out on this hunt. But let's not be distracted . . . . . I owe much to many on these Boards I will never get a chance to meet. The Boards and their contacts here have certainly been a positive for my hunt for the Doilies, but that pales in relation to the friends, advice, and help I have received here that has been invaluable. To all of you, and you know who you are . . . I am in your debt and will not forget.
Yes, perhaps I have fueled a bit of the rise of interest, but check out that recent CA Commem -- I was the underbidder and didn't even win it! I have never attempted to vary or waver from my goal of providing a window of grading in that December '89 to January '90 that the Doily so importantly shows. Many over the last 24 months have stated that I'll "lose money" on the hunt, but that is not the direction of the quest. The direction is to look at the grading, preserve the window into a very short phase of coin evaluation, and 'advance the body of knowledge' (as I tell my Junior English students when they construct a thesis statement for a paper). In the end, we'll submit the entire collection to CAC and get an unbiased view. I hope this will be acceptable to PCGS and the posting rules here. That will be my 'end goal' for the Boards.
So . . . . . .where are we? After 2 years, here is what I have noticed:
1.) Oreville is prescient. The NGC 2.0 and 2.1 are light years more rare than a Doily. If you want to collect a rare holder, case closed. I have -107- Doilies, and -4- NGC 2.1s. Trust me, I search for both. Moral of the story? Always trust your elders. Perhaps not 'elders' in age, but experience trumps age 10-fold. Oreville was right. I 'bow down' to the Master. (Oh, but the NGC 'Black' will never be topped. I have the Peace Dollar!!!)
2.) eBay Doilies will always be the bellweather for how much they 'go' for. I can always find a Doily from a personal contact a lot cheaper than I can find one from an eBay auction. Perhaps it is the automatic eBay fees that jack up a Doily . . . perhaps it is the wider audience? No worry. I like eBay for the 'current market' . . . but I don't like it to buy from that site as I'll get jacked up by some poser!!!!!
3.) Billet7 is a stud. Who here would be willing to devote a chunk of their time to a totally RANDOM effort to catalogue any type of PCGS holder? He doesn't get paid. He doesn't even get a LICK of thanks from any of you . . . and yet he trudges on. My vote for PCGS Board Member of the Year.
4.) Hunting for a eclectic item like a Doily requires direction. You can be a bit too vocal, or perhaps not enough. See #1 above. A mentor is very valuable.
5.) The Doily IS truly 'rare'. Yes, it is plastic, but the vast majority were cracked, blown apart, nuked, and incinerated in the hopes of getting the almighty upgrade. Remember, this was the era of the $500 MS65 Morgan !! Any wonder why the Morgie has so many survivors in the Doily holder???
6.) "Connections' mean so much more than eBay. If you ever search for an esoteric item, a 'connection' and subsequent purchase, trumps anything from a public site. Cultivate 'connections', regardless of your numismatic 'bent'. Another 'thanks' to my connections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7.) The Conder101 links (hit the 'Search' function) on old holders are invaluable. Want to get 'holder smart' in a hurry? Go to those links.
8.) The Doily Premium diminishes as the basic cost of the coin increases. A Merc Dime in MS65 may go for $125 in a Doily (for a $35 coin), but you won't see a Saint go for $5000 (for a $1900 coin). Why? Every schmuck who reads these Boards can afford $125 for the Doily Merc . . . . but you think they're going to go after the Saint when they have to buy baby formula and pay the rent? Supply and demand.
9.) The Doilies are diminishing. Yup . . . gramps old safety-deposit-box will still yield a rare holder or two until 2040, but the interest in the Doilies has driven a lot of the odd ones out. Rarity? Don't always just think of December '89 -- January '90. Think 'slabbing rate' !! The rate of slabbing at that time was MINISCULE compared to now. That is the function of rarity.
10.) This 'Winger's' burger is really good . . . even reheated from last Wednesday. With a little rum-n-Coke, I can survive this Saturday with style!
OK. Thanks to many. I hope this has been worth the hassle of reading (for the few of you who actually did). The hunt remains alive; the CAC submission is in the future, and the desire to acquire more and rarer Doilies will live on. You all are important and I again state my dedicated thanks to many here who have helped me in the hunt with little or no acclaim.
Drunner
'Doily Slut' of the Boards
October 2011
(edited to reflect this is 2011 . . . not 2010. A bit too much plastic and not enough attention to what year we are living in !!!)
0
Comments
That is why I think the doily labels are so popular. LOL.
Oh, by the way, I am humbled by the comments you made about me. It is all about helping each other in the hunt.
Great post Drunner.
Robert . . . some day I'll have a chance to thank you over a 15+ year Single Malt. There will come a time when chance will bring us together at a show or event and I won't forget the times you have taken to help a neophyte.
Nick . . . perhaps. I have a penchant for those uniquely-patterned slabs . . . but I have to postulate with you . . . yes. I think I would . . . !!!!!!!!!!!! Plastic is fun, especially when encapsulating a superior coin!!
Thanks to all . . . and I hope you have as much fun in this as I have . . . . or more! I owe many here, and appreciate the opportunity to thank those who give so much . . . . . . . .
Drunner
(Unapologetic Doily Slut)
Great post, but it would be cool to see a group photo of all of them someday
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
ALSO do you have any NGC black slabs???
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>take some pics!!
ALSO do you have any NGC black slabs??? >>
He wrote that he has one Peace dollar one.
Picture please!
I know there are a lot of us out their hunting including myself and coinkid so there are surely not enough examples to go around
I would post my 1887 MS67 Morgan in a doily holder but I don't want to send drunner into some sort of plastic comma
If that is some sort of joke, I can top it with my one about the girl in the convenience store . .
If not, I'm on my way to your house right now . . .
Drunner
-Paul
Edited to fix numbers.
<<< 5.) The Doily IS truly 'rare'. Yes, it is plastic, but the vast majority were cracked, blown apart, nuked, and incinerated in the hopes of getting the almighty upgrade. Remember, this was the era of the $500 MS65 Morgan >>>
Any time one individual can accumulate 107 of anything in relatively short order, that alone tells you that item is certainly not rare.
Congrats and good luck on continuing your quest!
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
pre¡¤scient /ˈprɛʃənt, ©iənt ˈpriʃənt, ©ʃiənt/ Show Spelled[presh-uhnt, ©ee-uhnt pree-shuhnt, ©shee-uhnt] Show IPAadjective having prescience, or knowledge of things or events before they exist or happen; having foresight: The prescient economist was one of the few to see the financial collapse coming.
Speaking of the occcaisional doily from a safe deposit box, I do have one there.... and if memory serves me well, it is an MS65 Morgan.
<< <i>Forum Members . . . . . . .
Narrowing in on 2 years of the Doily Hunt, and perhaps a bit of a time to update and pass on what I have learned from others during this quest.
First and foremost, a realization and thank-you to so many Forum members who have to varying degrees assisted me in finding, purchasing, and catergorizing this (to me) fascinating subset to the PCGS hobby. Always remember, my hunt for the Doilies has come AFTER a lifetime of collecting, finishing original sets, and competing on the Registries. I think I had the choice of going after Large Cents or looking for an area that had minimal prior interest. Being 'me', I went for the minimal interest -- the Doilies. Not wanting to be a 'follower' of anyone, I decided to embark on my own hunt for the 'Doilies'. To each his own, and although our EAC members would shudder to think of the analogy, I set out on this hunt. But let's not be distracted . . . . . I owe much to many on these Boards I will never get a chance to meet. The Boards and their contacts here have certainly been a positive for my hunt for the Doilies, but that pales in relation to the friends, advice, and help I have received here that has been invaluable. To all of you, and you know who you are . . . I am in your debt and will not forget.
Yes, perhaps I have fueled a bit of the rise of interest, but check out that recent CA Commem -- I was the underbidder and didn't even win it! I have never attempted to vary or waver from my goal of providing a window of grading in that December '89 to January '90 that the Doily so importantly shows. Many over the last 24 months have stated that I'll "lose money" on the hunt, but that is not the direction of the quest. The direction is to look at the grading, preserve the window into a very short phase of coin evaluation, and 'advance the body of knowledge' (as I tell my Junior English students when they construct a thesis statement for a paper). In the end, we'll submit the entire collection to CAC and get an unbiased view. I hope this will be acceptable to PCGS and the posting rules here. That will be my 'end goal' for the Boards.
So . . . . . .where are we? After 2 years, here is what I have noticed:
1.) Oreville is prescient. The NGC 2.0 and 2.1 are light years more rare than a Doily. If you want to collect a rare holder, case closed. I have -107- Doilies, and -4- NGC 2.1s. Trust me, I search for both. Moral of the story? Always trust your elders. Perhaps not 'elders' in age, but experience trumps age 10-fold. Oreville was right. I 'bow down' to the Master. (Oh, but the NGC 'Black' will never be topped. I have the Peace Dollar!!!)
2.) eBay Doilies will always be the bellweather for how much they 'go' for. I can always find a Doily from a personal contact a lot cheaper than I can find one from an eBay auction. Perhaps it is the automatic eBay fees that jack up a Doily . . . perhaps it is the wider audience? No worry. I like eBay for the 'current market' . . . but I don't like it to buy from that site as I'll get jacked up by some poser!!!!!
3.) Billet7 is a stud. Who here would be willing to devote a chunk of their time to a totally RANDOM effort to catalogue any type of PCGS holder? He doesn't get paid. He doesn't even get a LICK of thanks from any of you . . . and yet he trudges on. My vote for PCGS Board Member of the Year.
4.) Hunting for a eclectic item like a Doily requires direction. You can be a bit too vocal, or perhaps not enough. See #1 above. A mentor is very valuable.
5.) The Doily IS truly 'rare'. Yes, it is plastic, but the vast majority were cracked, blown apart, nuked, and incinerated in the hopes of getting the almighty upgrade. Remember, this was the era of the $500 MS65 Morgan !! Any wonder why the Morgie has so many survivors in the Doily holder???
6.) "Connections' mean so much more than eBay. If you ever search for an esoteric item, a 'connection' and subsequent purchase, trumps anything from a public site. Cultivate 'connections', regardless of your numismatic 'bent'. Another 'thanks' to my connections!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7.) The Conder101 links (hit the 'Search' function) on old holders are invaluable. Want to get 'holder smart' in a hurry? Go to those links.
8.) The Doily Premium diminishes as the basic cost of the coin increases. A Merc Dime in MS65 may go for $125 in a Doily (for a $35 coin), but you won't see a Saint go for $5000 (for a $1900 coin). Why? Every schmuck who reads these Boards can afford $125 for the Doily Merc . . . . but you think they're going to go after the Saint when they have to buy baby formula and pay the rent? Supply and demand.
9.) The Doilies are diminishing. Yup . . . gramps old safety-deposit-box will still yield a rare holder or two until 2040, but the interest in the Doilies has driven a lot of the odd ones out. Rarity? Don't always just think of December '89 -- January '90. Think 'slabbing rate' !! The rate of slabbing at that time was MINISCULE compared to now. That is the function of rarity.
10.) This 'Winger's' burger is really good . . . even reheated from last Wednesday. With a little rum-n-Coke, I can survive this Saturday with style!
OK. Thanks to many. I hope this has been worth the hassle of reading (for the few of you who actually did). The hunt remains alive; the CAC submission is in the future, and the desire to acquire more and rarer Doilies will live on. You all are important and I again state my dedicated thanks to many here who have helped me in the hunt with little or no acclaim.
Drunner
'Doily Slut' of the Boards
October 2011
(edited to reflect this is 2011 . . . not 2010. A bit too much plastic and not enough attention to what year we are living in !!!) >>
DOILIES ROCK!!
<< <i>Shane . . .
If that is some sort of joke, I can top it with my one about the girl in the convenience store . .
If not, I'm on my way to your house right now . . .
Drunner >>
It was a joke...you got my 66 morgan but I have never seen a 67 doily
Typical of me . . . got caught up in the fervor and forgot to recognize Tom (Bajjerfan) for getting the 'hunt' kickstarted. My first 'Doily Haul) came from him. We are now working out 3 times a day and eating tofu and rinsed beansprouts in an attempt to outlive each other -- the winner gets the other's Doilies (sort of sounds vaguely effeminate, but you understand).
Shane . . . my heartrate has now receded to the point at which the EMTs have released me to the care of my personal physician. I'd appreciate a 'heads up' if I ever again need to go to the nitro to stop the palpitations.
Dragon brings up a good point on rarity. I think we all bring to the table a different definition of the word. 1804 Dollar rare? 1916-D Merc. rare? 1950-D Jeff rare? Perhaps the subject of a future post, but I just allow myself one original post every 2 months, so it'll have to wait
Keyman . . . thanks, and I appreciate your help in the past! A great guy and fun poster as many others are.
Brian. Yes. Precisely. He has seen the future for me and the Doily hunt and has seen fit to keep me in check. Wise man . . . and very prescient. I owe a lot of the successes to his mentoring. Less educated? Methinks you jest! Oh . . . and when you are ready to cough up that Morgie, I'll reunite it with its compatriots!
Now to scoring all these English essays with the NFL in the background. I look forward to someday seeing many of you . . . and providing an appropriate 'thank-you'.
Drunner
(PCGS Forum Resident/Itinerant and Unrepentant Doily Student)
<< <i><<< If you want to collect a rare holder, case closed. I have -107- Doilies, and -4- NGC 2.1s >>>
<<< 5.) The Doily IS truly 'rare'. Yes, it is plastic, but the vast majority were cracked, blown apart, nuked, and incinerated in the hopes of getting the almighty upgrade. Remember, this was the era of the $500 MS65 Morgan >>>
Any time one individual can accumulate 107 of anything in relatively short order, that alone tells you that item is certainly not rare. >>
Tis true, but then again none of them are bringing true rarity premiums. These are sort of a sub-rarity species as in the doily isn't rare but the combo of certain coins and doilies makes them extremely scarce.
<< <i>The Doily IS truly 'rare'. >>
Perhaps everyone would agree that the following statement still makes the same point and is more accurate?
The Doily IS truly 'scarce'.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Doily IS truly 'rare'. >>
Perhaps everyone would agree that the following statement still makes the same point and is more accurate?
The Doily IS truly 'scarce'. >>
Sure, but I just did an analysis of the NGC Black Slabs. It turns out that through my surface analysis of the slabs, it turns out that NGC made them out of Unobtainium, making the stabs really rare.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
and a few of my favorites that i own
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
After toiling after sample slabs for years, I can attest to that addiction. It's all about the plastic!