A $200 bag of uncirculated 1942-S war nicks.......
leothelyon
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The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
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Wondercoin
<< <i>Didn't the same item sell the week before for about $2,000 more?
Wondercoin >>
Interesting, sold for $7600.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Wow that's like $1300 below melt or $1.4375 each. I sold all my junk circ. war nicks for $1.65 each just a few week ago. He has 2 more bags listed but wants more for them.
You make a many good points. I did search that the US Mint used canvas bags for nearly a century before the 1 ton ballistic bags. But was the same $200 per bag back then?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Seller has a relatively long history of selling costume jewelry at 25-$200 bucks a pop.
I say "run"
Now he's sold more than 13 bags and has promised others he will sell them a bunch more. He can't produce a picture either.
First the bags were in one state, then another.....
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't believe a word of it.
Due to the method of delivery please allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery. I will try to get delivery on the way immediately after purchase. They are stored in a different State than I am now in, so I
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<< <i>First the bags were in one state, then another..... >>
First Hong Kong, then California, then wherever he is, perhaps.
When you have something you could sell for an additional several thousand dollars just by having a photograph that helps corroborate that the item actually exists and is authentic, you take the picture, even if it means a several hundred dollar trip to "another state."
RFR.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>I got his full story about how he was left 13 bags that "fell off a mint truck" when leaving the family refinery business 50 years ago.
Now he's sold more than 13 bags and has promised others he will sell them a bunch more. He can't produce a picture either.
First the bags were in one state, then another.....
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't believe a word of it. >>
So not only is the seller suspect, but he just threw his family name down the drain for not returning 13 bags of $200 each.
Not to mention, if they fell off the truck the coins would probably be pretty banged up
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Marty, thanks for your interest. Unfortunately, the photos are not easily available. The bags are stored in a Brinks Secured
Vault Warehouse in the midwest and I am in Los Angeles. This has been an arrangement (Brinks) in place since the 1950's. The
bags have been stored since 1962. There is a lot of merchandise vaulted, as per my grandfathers will, as trust for each of his
grandchildren. I was the oldest and closest and was not even informed of the willed products until about one year ago, after all
of his sons (my father was one) had passed away. I am disabled and cannot fly. It is just as difficult for me to get someone in
there to photograph as it will be for me to just get into the vault. I am making the trip as quickly as all bags are sold, which
is one reason for the longer delivery time, and I already have the legal in place to release all merchandise so that they can deliver
it to each of the purchasers, along with delivering the balance of the product to me in California. The way it is set up now, is that
Brinks must deliver each item to its purchaser, get a verified signature, in order to relieve Brinks of the responsibility of each
item. If I am able to get someone in the vault area to take photos, which I am attempting now, then I will have them to send
out, however it may be in the same time period as the delivery. I only have the two bags , presently on ebay, left to sell.
I am certain you are aware of what is happening with the silver market? It is a definate "buy" situation, with the latest economists
prediction of a $36.00 to $38.00 ounce by years end. Gold is already too high to make a strong profit in the immediate future.
Copper is considered the "next silver", and due to family being in the metals business for 60 years, there also happens to be a
large amount of copper buillion and rounds in the vault. I hope you understand the position and are able to get in on the strength
and great price of these bags. Thanks for your interest.
- ipventures2011
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
they will have an investigation team look into these items (I never said a thing about
the nickels, so somebody else must have). I thought you had to put your location
in the auctions. USA is not appropriate was my understanding. So, a big hmmmmmmmm
as to what's going on.
bob
I think a copy of the will with the vault info sent to a prospective buyer would suffice (the
portion that pertains to the coins in the vault, not the whole will).
And, as previously mentioned they are stolen property if his story is true. CALL THE FEDS!
<< <i>I contacted the seller this morning to see if a photo could be provided and here is the response that I received.....
Marty, thanks for your interest. Unfortunately, the photos are not easily available. The bags are stored in a Brinks Secured
Vault Warehouse in the midwest and I am in Los Angeles. This has been an arrangement (Brinks) in place since the 1950's. The
bags have been stored since 1962. There is a lot of merchandise vaulted, as per my grandfathers will, as trust for each of his
grandchildren. I was the oldest and closest and was not even informed of the willed products until about one year ago, after all
of his sons (my father was one) had passed away. I am disabled and cannot fly. It is just as difficult for me to get someone in
there to photograph as it will be for me to just get into the vault. I am making the trip as quickly as all bags are sold, which
is one reason for the longer delivery time, and I already have the legal in place to release all merchandise so that they can deliver
it to each of the purchasers, along with delivering the balance of the product to me in California. The way it is set up now, is that
Brinks must deliver each item to its purchaser, get a verified signature, in order to relieve Brinks of the responsibility of each
item. If I am able to get someone in the vault area to take photos, which I am attempting now, then I will have them to send
out, however it may be in the same time period as the delivery. I only have the two bags , presently on ebay, left to sell.
I am certain you are aware of what is happening with the silver market? It is a definate "buy" situation, with the latest economists
prediction of a $36.00 to $38.00 ounce by years end. Gold is already too high to make a strong profit in the immediate future.
Copper is considered the "next silver", and due to family being in the metals business for 60 years, there also happens to be a
large amount of copper buillion and rounds in the vault. I hope you understand the position and are able to get in on the strength
and great price of these bags. Thanks for your interest.
- ipventures2011 >>
Why don't you ask him how he feels about selling at a $1250 loss cause he just sold another bag, his 3rd, according to ebay search.
And if I was the heads up on that last sale for someone here, thank you!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>If he was really scamming, he would have put up a 45-S, and 43-P bag. Those would go for much more. >>
With the 2 1942-S bags that he has sold, I wonder if the pop of my ANACS 66 6 stepper is in danger.
And whoever ends up with these bags, would they be wiser to sell the coins by the roll?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>I contacted the seller this morning to see if a photo could be provided and here is the response that I received.....
Marty, thanks for your interest. Unfortunately, the photos are not easily available. The bags are stored in a Brinks Secured
Vault Warehouse in the midwest and I am in Los Angeles. This has been an arrangement (Brinks) in place since the 1950's. The
bags have been stored since 1962. There is a lot of merchandise vaulted, as per my grandfathers will, as trust for each of his
grandchildren. I was the oldest and closest and was not even informed of the willed products until about one year ago, after all
of his sons (my father was one) had passed away. I am disabled and cannot fly. It is just as difficult for me to get someone in
there to photograph as it will be for me to just get into the vault. I am making the trip as quickly as all bags are sold, which
is one reason for the longer delivery time, and I already have the legal in place to release all merchandise so that they can deliver
it to each of the purchasers, along with delivering the balance of the product to me in California. The way it is set up now, is that
Brinks must deliver each item to its purchaser, get a verified signature, in order to relieve Brinks of the responsibility of each
item. If I am able to get someone in the vault area to take photos, which I am attempting now, then I will have them to send
out, however it may be in the same time period as the delivery. I only have the two bags , presently on ebay, left to sell.
I am certain you are aware of what is happening with the silver market? It is a definate "buy" situation, with the latest economists
prediction of a $36.00 to $38.00 ounce by years end. Gold is already too high to make a strong profit in the immediate future.
Copper is considered the "next silver", and due to family being in the metals business for 60 years, there also happens to be a
large amount of copper buillion and rounds in the vault. I hope you understand the position and are able to get in on the strength
and great price of these bags. Thanks for your interest.
- ipventures2011 >>
This story stinks to high heaven.
Whoever wrote it could easily one of the creative geniuses behind the Nigerian School of Scams.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
He started by selling the bags by date and mintmark, then just went to a generic auction.
He's offered multiple bags to dealers as well as 30+ rolls of gold coins he has in the same vault (that he can't get into or produce any info on)
An uncirculated bag of war nickels would be worth 20K plus easily. There is no reason to be selling them for as little as he is.
If there even were bags -- what a joke that mere idea is -- they'd be stolen federal property for which there is no statute of limitations.
Didn't his become the rage only a very short while ago?
<< <i>
<< <i>If he was really scamming, he would have put up a 45-S, and 43-P bag. Those would go for much more. >>
With the 2 1942-S bags that he has sold, I wonder if the pop of my ANACS 66 6 stepper is in danger.
And whoever ends up with these bags, would they be wiser to sell the coins by the roll? >>
If those are legit bags, it would be, 8,000 BU's hitting the market. They could be a bag from the first strikes, with great toning, the MS68 6 stepper POP would be in danger
Nice story though.
<< <i>Anybody want to buy a bridge?
Nice story though. >>
Ohhh.....I love bridges. Is it over a river!?
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
How about that, sent from the Mint, by whom, why weren't they smelted? So many questions, so little time.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
But read below:
Hardly anyone who does not know me cannot believe that I own a complete ODW roll set of warnickels.
Sure, I could bust them open and submit hundreds of pristine nickels to PCGS!
But I want to preserve them just as they are!
This is the truth!
I wonder if many of you even know what ODW stands for?
<< <i>
I wonder if many of you even know what ODW stands for? >>
ODW stands for Open those dang War nickels. I had a near complete set as well, but I opened them, I found 10 43-P DDO's (Double Eyes) in one of them.
<< <i>It's a scam.
If there even were bags -- what a joke that mere idea is -- they'd be stolen federal property for which there is no statute of limitations. >>
There is a statute of limitations - 18 USC 3282.
In this instance, the theft of the items wouldn't be prosecutable but the actual possession of the stolen property would be. (IMHO)
<< <i>This cannot be for real! I do not believe it.
But read below:
Hardly anyone who does not know me cannot believe that I own a complete ODW roll set of warnickels.
Sure, I could bust them open and submit hundreds of pristine nickels to PCGS!
But I want to preserve them just as they are!
This is the truth!
I wonder if many of you even know what ODW stands for? >>
What does ODW stand for? Office of the Department of War ro something?
Has anybody heard anymore about them? It certainly would be entertaining to sort through a bag of these. How common are blank planchets or clips from these years??
Back in the early to mid 1960's, BU rolls were all the rage. Collectors and dealers could not get their hands on enough original BU rolls from the Federal Reserve and S&L banks.
Many enterprising wholesalers, including some dealers filled the shortage by busting out original mint bags and wrapping them into rolls.
Thus, the ODW was born.
The big difference between the current OBW rolls and the current non OBW rolls is that the mint state coins are probably heavily picked over and the superior coins removed. Back in the 1960's, this was not the case as the old ODW rolls were not picked over (except for major error coins) before packaging the rolls so the old ODW are as good as the old OBW rolls in possibly finding valuable condition rarities (such as FS, FB, FBL, etc.)
I will post the details as they become available.
I bought one of these so-called war nickel bags back on September 28th. At first, the story seemed plausible. The only thing I was uncomfortable with was that 4-6 week estimated delivery time... but considering that my $7K investment could potentially yield a HUGE profit, I was willing to take a calculated risk.
It wasn't until October 7 that the deal started looking fishy... VERY fishy. Up until that point, it appeared as though he had sold all 13 bags (including mine) and therefore I expected he'd be making the trip up to Rochester, MN (or Rochester, MI... or wherever he thinks his items are located) shortly to get these bags shipped out. But then out of nowhere, I saw 4 new listings for more bags... only this time the dates were all different! In the earlier listing, supposedly there were (3) 1944-S, (3) 1945-S, (2) 1943-P, (2) 1943-S, (2) 1943-D, and (1) 1944-D bag. Now, all of a sudden, there were 1942-P, 1942-S, and 1945-P bags listed... none of which were on the original list. When I asked the seller about these new listings, he claimed that 2 of the earlier transactions were cancelled... but that still only justified 2 out of the 4. He also claimed that these were part of the original group of 13. But wait... how can this be, if the dates don't even match? At this point, I came to the realization that this guy is either a liar, or extremely incompetent. In either case, this isn't the kind of seller I care to do business with, so I decided I wanted my money back. So (with the help of a little bit of social engineering) I eventually got him to agree to give me a refund.. but that wasn't the end of it...
During this time, I also started to pick up on some more red flags:
1. He changed his user ID from "shanes1dad" to "ipventures2011" exactly on October 7 -- right at the time when the suspicious new listings popped up. Coincidence?
2. First the item was in Rochester, MN... then Rochester, MI. Okay... so maybe a typo. But then on his most recent listings, he blanked out the item location altogether. Hmmm.
3. The 4-6 week delivery time remained constant -- from the initial listing in September, all the way through October. How may trips does this guy plan on making up to Rochester? Wouldn't it make more sense to do it all at once, such that all of the bags are shipped out and delivered at approximately the same time? Also, the higher end of that range (6 weeks) all-too-conveniently surpasses the 45-day limitation for filing a dispute in eBay and/or PayPal.
4. In the wording of his description, he claims that such-and-such dates and mintmarks are "printed" on the bags. But wait... as far as I know, the Mint has never actually printed mintmarks on any bag; they've always spelled out the whole name like "Denver" or "San Fransisco".
5. The seller is offering uncirculated bags from all 3 Mints. Even if someone did manage to acquire a hoard of war nickel bags directly from the Mint, how did these bags from 3 different branches of the U.S. Mint all end up in the same place? In other words, how is it possible that multiple branches of the Federal Reserve all ended up with bags of nickels that--for some reason--never got released into circulation after 15-20 years? Unlike silver dollars, nickels have always been a widely-circulating denomination... and I'm sure these would have been needed for general commerce, rather than being withheld from circulation.
6. He told me he needs to sell the bags to pay for medical expenses, as well as set up a "complicated" trust fund for his daughter. He then goes on to mention something about having some goods delivered to him "here" in Los Angeles... yet the phone number he gave me is a landline in Phoenix, Arizona.
7. In one batch of listings, he wrote something to the effect of "coins have no wear or tarnish, other than from being in storage for so many years". How can he claim to know what the coins look like if they're all still sealed in the bags?
8. Here's the big one: to the best of my knowledge, $200 face bags of nickels did not even exist yet in the 1940s. Evidently, U.S. nickel bags during this era actually contained $50.00 face... not $200. Here's a picture of an empty original Mint bag of 1945 Denver nickels I found online:
Note the one on the right, which shows: "U.S. Mint Denver $50 5 Cents 1945". I doubt there are any legitimate Mint sewn $200 bags of uncirculated war nickels in existence. Presumably, if any were to exist, they would have been re-bagged at a later date in the 1950s or '60s--i.e., NOT from the original year of issue as claimed.
OK, so fast forward a few days later... on October 13, I get the dreaded "An eCheck payment from [seller's name] was declined by the sender's bank" notification from PayPal. As soon as his e-check bounced, all of the seller's communications with me came to an abrupt halt, and I never heard from him again. At this point, I'm 99% sure this is a scam, so I immediately called PayPal for help in filing and escalating a claim. To make a long story short, I finally got my money back over a week later (on Oct. 21st)... and that wasn't until he sold a couple more "bags" to someone else that the money finally became available to fulfill the refund.
Basically, it boils down to this: The guy sold easily $75,000+ worth of these coins over the course of a month... and the money is already gone -- completely squandered away. Not a good sign at all! I really hope I am wrong and this turns out to be legit after all, but my gut tells me I dodged a huge bullet on this one, and a lot of people could get burned. So... if anyone else here purchased bags from this seller, please don't forget about the 45-day cutoff time for filing claims. Even if (for whatever reason) you still think this deal is legit, you should file a dispute before the time limit is up anyway... just for your own protection.
Edited to add: In case anyone's wondering, it was me who gave this seller his first NEG on eBay. I hated having to do it--and I REALLY tried to give him the benefit of the doubt--but the fact that he left me hanging for OVER A WEEK after promising me a refund with NO COMMUNICATION whatsoever is totally unacceptable. An honest person with good intentions would never do something like that. Unfortunately, this appears to be a case of a good seller gone bad.
Sorry for the long ramble... I just came upon this thread and thought I should share my experience with you guys, in case it may help someone.
Rick
I guess you could say the jury is still out since I'm the only one who posted a neg (so far)... but a preponderance of the evidence is all pointing to SCAM. For the sake of all the other buyers involved, I really hope I'm wrong on this guy... but if we start seeing a crescendo of negs, followed by "not a registered user" shortly thereafter, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
There's a couple of things I still can't wrap my head around though... if a person is going to pull a scam like this, why would he choose such an obscure item like war nickels? Why not something with greater liquidity that's easier to sell, such as silver dollars, gold, wheat cents, etc.? Also, how does a seemingly upstanding member with a 7+ year history suddenly go from good to bad?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>Amazing 7+ years of good service and now he may have gone rouge.... >>
Not necessarily, the account could have been hijacked. My wife's account was several years ago. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how it happened, but once I saw item's being posted on it I contacted eBay who closed the account. Very frightening stuff.
I wish you well in working this out rbf.
Basically, it appears that he's using the money from new buyers to issue refunds to the earlier "investors"... kind of like a Bernie Madoff-style Ponzi scheme. My belief is that this seller unscrupulously concocted these listings as a way to get an interest-free loan from unsuspecting buyers. Considering his self-employment status, an apparent interest in inventors/inventions, and the recent name change to "ipventures2011", I suspect he may have needed a large sum of money for some sort of venture capitalist deal.
Of course, that's all just speculation. Another--perhaps equally likely--possibility is that he may have just decided to liquidated his bank accounts and flee the country. Time will tell...
In any case, I hope everyone else is successful in getting their money back. eBay/Paypal Buyer Protection came through for me in the end... but you have to be persistent--and most importantly--get the claim filed ON TIME.
Rick
<< <i>
<< <i>Amazing 7+ years of good service and now he may have gone rouge.... >>
Not necessarily, the account could have been hijacked. My wife's account was several years ago. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how it happened, but once I saw item's being posted on it I contacted eBay who closed the account. Very frightening stuff.
I wish you well in working this out rbf. >>
Thanks... actually, I'm almost positive this is not a case of account hijacking. All of the buying/selling activity on the account (excluding the war nickels) has remained consistent, and the seller's mannerism/style of writing has remained exactly the same... even the same odd misspelling of the word "excellant" in feedback postings.
In 1999 I dealt with a similar situation where a bunch of eBay customers started communicating with one another to compare their experiences. Not sure that can be done today with ebay using codes to hide user names. In any event I contacted the attorney general's office in Nebraska where the dealer's business was, detailing my experience, and providing them with his contact information etc. While I was reimbursed by the dealer after about a month, eBay eventually suspended his account. There were enough complaints made that the A.G. eventually acted, investingating the dealer, asking me to provide a notarized statement to a court of my experience.
A couple of questions: Did Pay Pal inhibit the seller from accessing your funds, freezing the balance? What has eBay/Pay Pal done that you know of to protect others from this?
<< <i>A couple of questions: Did Pay Pal inhibit the seller from accessing your funds, freezing the balance? What has eBay/Pay Pal done that you know of to protect others from this? >>
Paypal didn't disclose to me whether or not his account was frozen, but I'd assume it's standard procedure to freeze an account whenever a non-receipt claim is filed. I had called Paypal right away when the e-check bounced, and the service rep filed the claim for me AND escalated it simultaneously. I spoke with at least 3 different eBay/Paypal representatives during the course of this fiasco, and they unanimously reassured me that I'd get my money back NO MATTER WHAT. I was told that even in the worse case scenario--i.e., if the seller emptied his bank account and went M.I.A.--Paypal would refund me out of their own pocket.
As for filing a report with the Arizona Attorney General's office, I had considered that as a measure of last resort... but not unless/until I'm absolutely positive that a deliberate fraud has been perpetrated. I do have the seller's full name, street address, telephone number, email, etc. on file.. so if, at some point, anyone needs this information in order to take legal action, I will be glad to pass it along.
Rick