Is the location of the PCGS grading office relevant to you, or does it just add panache to the coins

Longacre

I just received an email from an excessively prominent coin dealer, offering some coins for sale. I copied and pasted the email below. As you can see, he highlights the fact that the coin was graded by the PCGS office in Paris, and the source of the coin is Europe.

Questions:

(1) Does the location of the PCGS office that graded the coin matter to you?
(2) Do the French grade US coins more liberally?
(3) Does it matter that this coin came from a European source? Are those coins more likely to be unmolested (I understand that Europeans tend to not tinker with their coins as much as US collectors)?
(4) Does the fact that the coin got graded in Paris add at least a little bit of panache to the coin, thereby goosing the value ever so slightly compared to a coin that was merely graded at the PCGS office in California?


1840 Narrow Mill $5.00
PCGS AU50

The design of the half eagle was modified in 1840 and the differences are readily apparent on the obverse. Varieties exist with Narrow and Broad Mill of which the former is the more available.

This piece was graded by PCGS at their Paris office and it is from a European source. The surfaces show nice, original deep green-gold color and have scattered marks.

The quality of this piece is far above average for the date and grade, and it would make a great companion to the 1839 half eagle offered above.

RYK

I prefer coins from Le PCGS!

Justacommeman

Every time I hear PCC Paris this Flight Of The Conchords bit comes to mind. MJ

Foux Du FaFa

ricko

It makes no difference to me. No doubt, some few individuals will begin to prize these items.... people will collect anything. Those individuals will eventually pay premiums, thus creating a niche market. Humans are weird. Cheers, RickO

ColonialCoinUnion

I think the location of the grading facility is irrelevant, but the implication is that a coin from a European source is much less likely to have ever been conserved, enhanced or otherwise screwed-with by coin doctor. I guess.

RYK

<< <i>It makes no difference to me. No doubt, some few individuals will begin to prize these items.... people will collect anything. Those individuals will eventually pay premiums, thus creating a niche market. Humans are weird. Cheers, RickO >>


I doubt that there is much "panache" to the holder, but there is a premium for original No Motto gold coins, compared to the scrubbed and dipped ones. If they come from a European source or US source, I do not discriminate.

Over time, as DW (Don Willis) indicated in my thread, the European style slabs will be used in the US, so the slab will not be useful in determining where the coins are from.

ziggy29

Unless a perception eventually develops that believes one "site" grades more conservatively than another, it won't matter except to slab collectors.

renomedphys

I don't know, but for $5.00, you can't go wrong either way!

secondrepublic

Having the Paris pedigree at least triples the value for me.

SanctionII

The California address for PCGS is listed as "Newport Beach".

Newport Beach stirs up images of glitz, glamour, nice homes on Balboa Island, sailboats, sandy beaches and people who could pose for Calvin Klein and Ralph Loren ads.

However, the image of "Newport Beach" does not match the reality of the area where PCGS has its offices.

It is like many other locations in the USA. Freeways, office buildings, retail plazas, fast food restaurants, gas stations, lots of cars and not much in the way of close by gorgeous surroundings. Urban/suburban sprawl, though it is not too far (assuming traffic is not backed up) from the gorgeous beaches of South Orange County.

As for a Paris office, that also sounds very nice. Wonder where it is located and what the area where the office is located is like.

Dennis88

<< <i>(3) Does it matter that this coin came from a European source? Are those coins more likely to be unmolested (I understand that Europeans tend to not tinker with their coins as much as US collectors)? >>



Myth. Many, many coins that have been Europe, especially if they have resided in collections, have been messed with. Coins that came out of banks (most likely including the piece mentioned by the OP) are a different story. Cleaning is still common and accepted in many European countries.

Dennis

LindeDad

<< <i>

<< <i>(3) Does it matter that this coin came from a European source? Are those coins more likely to be unmolested (I understand that Europeans tend to not tinker with their coins as much as US collectors)? >>



Myth. Many, many coins that have been Europe, especially if they have resided in collections, have been messed with. Coins that came out of banks (most likely including the piece mentioned by the OP) are a different story. Cleaning is still common and accepted in many European countries.

Dennis >>



This is very evident on forums that have more members from other countries.

keyman64

The Paris office does all of the Clear Edgeview 3 Prong Holders I think. Was he drawing the attention to the Paris bit because of the holder the coin would be in?

kranky

What the heck is "panache"?

Is that like shmutz?

Bochiman

Office doesn't. Graders do. I think some of them, particularly on moderns, are way too jumpy on calling some things "questionable toning".

I think, and I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong here, that the Paris office uses the edge view type of inserts/holders? I just had a LE 1/2 cent graded and came back....can't see the edge lettering
Would have been nice to have it in a holder that would allow it to be seen.

messydesk

Perhaps it's a myth, but it may be just as effective a myth as the one that says that unopened proof sets must contain high grade cameos. Sure as Häagen-Dazs is from New York, there is someone that will fall for it.

dbcoin

I think the graders from Newport Beach fly out to Paris for "shows" and do the grading in Paris. So it doesn't make any difference as to where they are graded.

GeorgeKellogg

For me, the European connection would add an element of interest. Of course, I always enjoy "the story" behind a coin.

I also like the concept of an edge view holder. I do wonder why the PCGS "prongs" are so much wider (circumferentially) than the NGC prongs. The PCGS prongs appear to be about twice as wide and cover up more of the edge.

WTCG

Coins in Santa Ana and Paris are graded by the same graders. That may change in the future but for now they are graded by the same people.

If I recall the PCGS office is located in or very near the 1st Arrondissement. I'm not absolutely certain but I believe the address is on rue Richelieu.

Manorcourtman

<< <i>What the heck is "panache"?

Is that like shmutz? >>




pa·nache   /pəˈnæʃ, -ˈnɑʃ/ Show Spelled[puh-nash, -nahsh] Show IPA
noun
1.a grand or flamboyant manner; verve; style; flair: The actor who would play Cyrano must have panache.
2.an ornamental plume of feathers, tassels, or the like, especially one worn on a helmet or cap.
3.Architecture. the surface of a pendentive.
Origin: 1545–55; variant (after F) of pennache< Middle French < early Italian pennachio< Late Latin pinnāculum,diminutive of pinnawing; identical in form with pinnāculumpinnacle

ambro51

If I collected specialized darkside coins that were graded by PCGS then maybe "local knowledge'" would have a great importance.

the clear edgeview holders kick azz and should be a option with any PCGS slab submission.

...how, though,,,a silly question but I know not the answer, how do you know WHERE the pcgs coin was graded to begin with?

PerryHall

Are the labels different? If so, does someone have a pic of the French label?

Timbuk3

Interesting !!!
Something I never knew.
Thanks for the info.

rays

Better Newport Beach than Compton.

RYK

<< <i>What the heck is "panache"?

Is that like shmutz? >>



Panache is to schmutz as CAC is to dreck.

fcloud

It shouldn't matter. Aren't the standards the same?

TwoSides2aCoin

I need to brush up on my French.

19Lyds

<< <i>Coins in Santa Ana and Paris are graded by the same graders. That may change in the future but for now they are graded by the same people.

If I recall the PCGS office is located in or very near the 1st Arrondissement. I'm not absolutely certain but I believe the address is on rue Richelieu. >>

How could that be unless the regularly fly from LA to Paris and then back again?

dbcoin

They do fly from LA to Paris and back again. See my earlier post

WTCG

<< <i>

<< <i>Coins in Santa Ana and Paris are graded by the same graders. That may change in the future but for now they are graded by the same people.

If I recall the PCGS office is located in or very near the 1st Arrondissement. I'm not absolutely certain but I believe the address is on rue Richelieu.

>>

How could that be unless the regularly fly from LA to Paris and then back again? >>



They do commute back and forth about every 6-8 weeks according to Don although not the same graders make the trip every time.

NGC does something similar with their World department between Florida and China.

Lakesammman

If there were some attractive curves on the holder, that would be a plus.

BigE

Longacre, I discovered the numismatist from whom you "borrowed" the term "excessively". He was know to have overused the word also in his descriptions of silver dollars. I was disappointed to find out that this is not original to you:

From Bowers"s book on silver dollars:
All research efforts in numismatics build upon the efforts of others. In 1950, M.H. Bolender took under advisement the comments made by Capt. J.W. Haseltine in his 1881 Type-Table, and if that old time Philadelphia dealer called a variety "excessively rare" (one of Haseltine's favorite ways to describe an ultra-rare piece), surely Bolender factored this into his own ratings. For dollar enthusiasts, the Bolender text with its subsequent updatings serves as a jumping-off spot, a home base to which one constantly returns for information and numismatic nurturing





-----------------------BigE

DennisH

I'd like to see them open offices in every state capitol, so I could drop off and pick up in person again.