1970 + 1972 Grocery Cellos Graded by GAI Listed on Ebay by Reliable Seller - Real or Fake?

70ToppsFanatic · October 17, 2011 11:34PM

There are currently two GAI-graded Topps cellos listed on Ebay that got my attention because the seller is
Rick Probstein, who I believe has an impecable reputation.

These cellos (links below) are from 1970 and 1972.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Topps-Baseball-Unopened-Cello-Pack-Senators-Top-GAI-9-5-GEM-MINT-/110760085939?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item19c9d0c9b3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Topps-Baseball-Unopened-Cello-Pack-Rangers-Top-GAI-8-5-NM-MT-/110760086655?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item19c9d0cc7f

As far as I know (and have confirmed with Steve Hart), cellos of these kinds from these years were not
produced by Topps. The cellos from those years came in cardboard boxes such as the ones pictured below
and contained between 30-33 cards.

Does anyone have different information about these GAI-graded items that would prove them to be legitimate?

bbuckner22 · October 17, 2011 11:42PM

1972 cello link
1970 cello link

bking · October 17, 2011 11:46PM

<< 1972 cello link
1970 cello link >>

102 grading prefix tells me all I need to know.

ahkmedbinladen · October 17, 2011 11:48PM

who I believe has an impeccable reputation.

...lets not get carried away!!!

swartz1 · October 17, 2011 11:52PM

this thread has potential...

70ToppsFanatic · October 17, 2011 11:52PM

<< who I believe has an impeccable reputation.

...lets not get carried away!!! >>

Is there something you wish to say about Rick that would have us believe otherwise?

70ToppsFanatic · October 17, 2011 11:54PM

<< 

<< 1972 cello link
1970 cello link >>

102 grading prefix tells me all I need to know. >>

In general I don't put much faith in GAI either, but is there something about the specific 102 prefix that should be more generally known?

jeffcbay · October 18, 2011 12:04AM

<< who I believe has an impeccable reputation.

...lets not get carried away!!! >>

"ahkmedbinladen" is a perfect screen name for you, because you're like this board's terrorist. lol

bking · October 18, 2011 12:06AM

<< 

<< 

<< 1972 cello link
1970 cello link >>

102 grading prefix tells me all I need to know. >>

In general I don't put much faith in GAI either, but is there something about the specific 102 prefix that should be more generally known? >>

Someone may correct me, but what I was told is that during the '102' series of slabs they would probably slab a pack with staples in it.

jeffcbay · October 18, 2011 12:08AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 1972 cello link
1970 cello link >>

102 grading prefix tells me all I need to know. >>

In general I don't put much faith in GAI either, but is there something about the specific 102 prefix that should be more generally known? >>

Someone may correct me, but what I was told is that during the '102' series of slabs they would probably slab a pack with staples in it. >>

I believe you're correct.

Also, Probstein sells on consignment, so this pack likely belongs to someone else.

bking · October 18, 2011 12:11AM

<< 
Also, Probstein sells on consignment, so this pack likely belongs to someone else. >>

That's my belief. IMO, he avoids ANY sort of subjective opinion, but presents the item accurately, thereby letting the buyer make their own decisions.

jeffcbay · October 18, 2011 12:12AM

<< 

<< 
Also, Probstein sells on consignment, so this pack likely belongs to someone else. >>

That's my belief. IMO, he avoids ANY sort of subjective opinion, but presents the item accurately, thereby letting the buyer make their own decisions. >>

Agreed.

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 12:14AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 1972 cello link
1970 cello link >>

102 grading prefix tells me all I need to know. >>

In general I don't put much faith in GAI either, but is there something about the specific 102 prefix that should be more generally known? >>

Someone may correct me, but what I was told is that during the '102' series of slabs they would probably slab a pack with staples in it. >>

I believe you're correct.

Also, Probstein sells on consignment, so this pack likely belongs to someone else. >>

That is correct, but if I were Rick I would not want to tarnish my reputation by being associated with anything that is a
known illegitimate item. It's also possible that he may not be aware of the story behind these packs.

I have mailed him directly on these as well. If there is some additional info he has that proves them to be OK I
think we'd all appreciate knowing. If they turn out to be illegitimate as we understand, then he'd probably appreciate
knowing.

hhmag70 · October 18, 2011 12:15AM

<< 

<< 

<< 
Also, Probstein sells on consignment, so this pack likely belongs to someone else. >>

That's my belief. IMO, he avoids ANY sort of subjective opinion, but presents the item accurately, thereby letting the buyer make their own decisions. >>

Agreed. >>

Sounds like the perfect place to consign "aged" reprints.

grote15 · October 18, 2011 12:23AM

12-card so-called "grocery" cellos from 1970-1972 (I've even seen them as late as 1975) are bogus and were not produced by Topps. GAI mistakenly holdered a bunch of therm years ago when Ryan Rutter was doing the authenticating till he also realized that they were fake, which is why the only ones you'll see graded are in the old silver flip with the serial number beginning with 102. GAI won't holder them anymore and PSA, of course, will not holder them, either. The only authentic Topps cello packs from 1970-1972 were housed in cardboard boxes (green in 1970 and blue in 1971 and 1972). Card count in 1970 was 33 cards and 30 cards in 1971 and 1972. There was also no gum in the 1970 cellos.

swartz1 · October 18, 2011 12:31AM

so it is okay to pass along questionable merchandise, as long as you do it through consignment...

how ridiculous...

I agree with the reputation comment...

bking · October 18, 2011 12:33AM

<< so it is okay to pass along questionable merchandise, as long as you do it through consignment...

how ridiculous...

I agree with the reputation comment... >>

Can't speak for anyone else, but I specifically did NOT say I thought it was OK. I chose my words very carefully, tyvm.

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 12:35AM

<< 12-card so-called "grocery" cellos from 1970-1972 (I've even seen them as late as 1975) are bogus and were not produced by Topps. GAI mistakenly holdered a bunch of therm years ago when Ryan Rutter was doing the authenticating till he also realized that they were fake, which is why the only ones you'll see graded are in the old silver flip with the serial number beginning with 102. GAI won't holder them anymore and PSA, of course, will not holder them, either. The only authentic Topps cello packs from 1970-1972 were housed in cardboard boxes (green in 1970 and blue in 1971 and 1972). Card count in 1970 was 33 cards and 30 cards in 1971 and 1972. There was also no gum in the 1970 cellos. >>

That's what I have always understood to be the case too. Now if we could get Ebay to remove all of these bogus
listings (in particular those by baseballhero26) it might help get these things put to bed once and for all. Despite
reporting these items to them regularly, and pointing them to Steve Hart as an expert on the subject they still
don't remove the listings.

Perhaps a "mass" item reporting would be in order?

ahkmedbinladen · October 18, 2011 12:35AM

Exactly, Probstein sells tons of consignments(and he does a terrific job) but when you are selling anything and everything then this can also become a "dumping ground". If one has an impeccable reputation then they would maybe research what and in some cases for whom they are selling for.

PowderedH2O · October 18, 2011 12:57AM

So Rick is supposed to know every possible detail of every possible card out there? Please. He was given something that is slabbed by a theoretically respectable company. And of course, a number of you are making a bunch of comments as to why he carries a 'known illegitimate item'. You've done a nice job of piling on in an hour's time. Instead, how about informing Rick of your thoughts and giving him the opportunity to make a decision about whether to pull that item? I have bought quite a few items from Rick and read many of his posts and have had no reason to think of him as anything less than a completely above board person.

bking · October 18, 2011 1:02AM

<< So Rick is supposed to know every possible detail of every possible card out there? Please. He was given something that is slabbed by a theoretically respectable company. And of course, a number of you are making a bunch of comments as to why he carries a 'known illegitimate item'. You've done a nice job of piling on in an hour's time. Instead, how about informing Rick of your thoughts and giving him the opportunity to make a decision about whether to pull that item? I have bought quite a few items from Rick and read many of his posts and have had no reason to think of him as anything less than a completely above board person. >>

Agreed on most points. He's clearly listed an item that has been certified by a company with a varied reputation, but it IS graded nonetheless. Is he supposed to ignore those facts and pull the item, or is it OK for him to let the market decide? This really isn't much different than listing a card that is CLEARLY overgraded, or making up some lame story about living next to the factory. It is what it is - a listing that requires buyers to be savvy.

Me? I wouldn't list it, but I'm not really in the same business stratosphere as he is.

thunderdan · October 18, 2011 1:32AM

Let's hear what Rick has to say about this. I'm curious.

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 1:59AM

I emailed him and tried to call him (no answer) on this. I'm sure he'll respond once he gets back from
wherever he may be.

flatfoot816 · October 18, 2011 3:43AM

I'll pass on commenting. Last time I commented on something in his auction I was run out of town. Expect this thread to go "poof" soon.............

Personally I wouldn't buy a grocery cello if Sy Berger himself wanted to sell it to me---

thedutymon · October 18, 2011 4:13AM

Afternoon,

IBTP....................(Hint: In Before The Poof!)

But just in case this lasts for awhile, IMHO No reputable Dealer of the standing and reputation in the Collectible Community that Rick has, should touch this type of item with a 100 foot pole, using the Shield of Consigning is simply hiding...Period!

YeeHah

Neil

jeffcbay · October 18, 2011 4:15AM

Speaking for myself and probably 99% of the collecting community, I had no idea these weren't distributed in cellos like this. I'm guessing Rick is part of that 99%. Again, only guessing.

flatfoot816 · October 18, 2011 4:41AM

dutymom--I agree

Jeff...this has been so well known for so long that I can't imagine that a dealer in vintage material woudln't know about it.....

cpamike · October 18, 2011 4:42AM

Where's the magician??? I thought I heard someone say "POOF".

bking · October 18, 2011 5:16AM

<< 

<< 12-card so-called "grocery" cellos from 1970-1972 (I've even seen them as late as 1975) are bogus and were not produced by Topps. GAI mistakenly holdered a bunch of therm years ago when Ryan Rutter was doing the authenticating till he also realized that they were fake, which is why the only ones you'll see graded are in the old silver flip with the serial number beginning with 102. GAI won't holder them anymore and PSA, of course, will not holder them, either. The only authentic Topps cello packs from 1970-1972 were housed in cardboard boxes (green in 1970 and blue in 1971 and 1972). Card count in 1970 was 33 cards and 30 cards in 1971 and 1972. There was also no gum in the 1970 cellos. >>

That's what I have always understood to be the case too. Now if we could get Ebay to remove all of these bogus
listings (in particular those by baseballhero26) it might help get these things put to bed once and for all. Despite
reporting these items to them regularly, and pointing them to Steve Hart as an expert on the subject they still
don't remove the listings.

Perhaps a "mass" item reporting would be in order? >>

This will never happen. Step back for a sec and look at this from their perspective: you have an accurately described item, certified by a reputable company, and properly described by a solid seller. How exactly can EBay claim to know more about the validity of this listing than a grading company does? It's not worth the hassle to them to try and outguess the "experts". Should they pull all the BBCG, GMC, GSA, etc cards out there?

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 6:27AM

These are being represented as Topps-produced packs when they are clearly not. Ebay removes items all the time. Here is an example
of a message they sent out recently on a computer case my daughter wanted to purchase:

Thanks for your interest in this listing:

160665633858 - NIB Speck See Thru Hard Shell Case for MacBook Pro 15-Inch Aluminum UNIBODY

We're sorry to tell you that the item isn't available for purchase anymore. We removed the listing because it likely fell into one of these three categories:

-- The listing doesn't follow eBay guidelines.
-- The item isn't allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
-- The listing contains pictures or words that may have violated copyright or trademark rights.

If that does not violate the Topps copyright I dont know what is.

bking · October 18, 2011 6:33AM

<< These are being represented as Topps-produced packs when they are clearly not. Ebay removes items all the time. Here is an example
of a message they sent out recently on a computer case my daughter wanted to purchase:

Thanks for your interest in this listing:

160665633858 - NIB Speck See Thru Hard Shell Case for MacBook Pro 15-Inch Aluminum UNIBODY

We're sorry to tell you that the item isn't available for purchase anymore. We removed the listing because it likely fell into one of these three categories:

-- The listing doesn't follow eBay guidelines.
-- The item isn't allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
-- The listing contains pictures or words that may have violated copyright or trademark rights.

If that does not violate the Topps copyright I dont know what is. >>

Umm, pretty sure those ARE Topps cards, so that clears up any copyright issues. Basically, he's darn near quoting what is on the flip. so again I don't see what possible grounds they would have for removing the listing.

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 6:58AM

Bob,

I was actually referring to the guy who is selling the unslabbed ones (baseballhero26) on Ebay which I also mentioned earlier.

In Rick's case, if it were me I would not associate myself with stuff like this on principle.

grote15 · October 18, 2011 7:07AM

That guy selling the raw "grocery" cellos has a charming story about how his aunt or uncle used to work for Topps and these were cellos that were inserted into rack packs back in the year issue...here's a question: has anyone ever seen a 70s rack pack with individually wrapped grocery cellos in it?

He uses a generic "cut card" case box (which Topps used to package "cut card" product) to bolster the tale.

StarPaxMan · October 18, 2011 7:36AM

The most succesfull seller of these fake packs keeps flying under the radar he lists them on 3 day auctions
starting price $9.99 and sells them every time (sweetdeals4unow) just one at a time over 30 sold in the last few months
he also plays with fake star rack packs.

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 7:46AM

<< That guy selling the raw "grocery" cellos has a charming story about how his aunt or uncle used to work for Topps and these were cellos that were inserted into rack packs back in the year issue...here's a question: has anyone ever seen a 70s rack pack with individually wrapped grocery cellos in it?

He uses a generic "cut card" case box (which Topps used to package "cut card" product) to bolster the tale. >>

These are the listings I think we should all report as fakes whenever we see them. Perhaps if many voices are
heard from Ebay will take notice.

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 7:47AM

<< The most succesfull seller of these fake packs keeps flying under the radar he lists them on 3 day auctions
starting price $9.99 and sells them every time (sweetdeals4u) just one at a time over 30 sold in the last few months
he also plays with fake star rack packs. >>

I am adding his listings to my report to Ebay list. I hope others here follow suit and do the same.

grote15 · October 18, 2011 7:52AM

Sweetdeals4unow sells a lot of fake late 60s grocery cellos...though his packs are not authentic, either, Topps did produce 12-card grocery cellos during these years (till 1969).

scmavl · October 18, 2011 7:58AM

<< Where's the magician??? I thought I heard someone say "POOF". >>

+1 for the Arrested Development joke.

Also, I had no idea about these grocery cellos either, but I'm still new to the vintage unopened game.

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 8:26AM

Just received the following and thought it would be good to get additional feedback on it:

Yeah rick knows he sells fake stuff. But he just wants his % is all.
Just a quick look at his auctions and I saw this one.
1966 mays trimmed top to bottom big time

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Topps-1-Willie-Mays-San-Francisco-Giants-HOF-SCD-8-5-w-9-/120792462515?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1c1fcab4b3#ht_977wt_1165

Just send him an email asking if a card like this is trimmed. He will say well its graded and its hard to tell in the case. Ive asked him bf and I know he knows it is but he will give you a bs response.

Anyone have any comments on this, either way?

jeffcbay · October 18, 2011 9:12AM

So you're saying he should drop the consignment business and start a pack and card grading service? The two items in question have been graded and authenticated by a paid service, how much more responsibility would you have him take?

Probstein123 · October 18, 2011 9:13AM

hi guys,
just got in...was at the beach today....saw a fisherman pull a sting-ray...pretty cool..

anyway, I ended the 2 auctions for these cello packs...

I'll return them to the consignor....

thanks for the detailed info....

rick

70ToppsFanatic · October 18, 2011 9:25AM

Spoke to Rick (he was off today). He thanked me for bringing
these listings to his attention, and said in cases where he
is aware of a concern he documents it with the listing. He also
said that given the volume of items he works with it is not
impossible that once and a while something gets by unnoticed.

As I said originally, an impeccable reputation and I still believe it.

jeffcbay · October 18, 2011 9:29AM

(don't look up)

vladguerrero · October 18, 2011 10:30AM

I for one think it's great that he pulled that X-Mas pack and these cellos when authenticity was questioned.

1970 + 1972 Grocery Cellos Graded by GAI Listed on Ebay by Reliable Seller - Real or Fake?

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