My "investment" debate
unbrok3n
Posts: 113
OK, so this is going to be a question/introduction post (even though I have been here for a while)
I am 22, and when I was younger (about 8-14) I was a serious collector (as serious as a kid could be). Lost interest until recently.
I started buying a few gold coins as an investment...and now I am hooked on coins again...even more than I was before.
I am focusing on a type set of my "dream coins" (or coins I find that become dream coins)
OK, so there's my short and sweet story,
My question is, are "rare" coins, or desirable, coins considered (in your mind) as strong of an investment as gold? I have a $20 Gaudens worth around $2.5-3k that I would love to sell and get something I really want (the only reason I have it is because of the gold). I would love the answer to be "sell it and buy the coin you want" but I would really like your honest answer from an investment and solely an investment standpoint. I already have some new coins that I love, so I don't need to invest in what makes me happy (at this minute) but ya...
The reason I am asking is because I am now a poor post-college kid with expensive hobbies...and if I am going to get any of the high-end coins I want, at this point, I would probably have to sell one of my gold pieces. (recently got an ms63 $20 lib. Not rare, but I like it a lot more than my Gaudens)
Sorry if that was long and drawn out, but I would love to hear what you think!
I am 22, and when I was younger (about 8-14) I was a serious collector (as serious as a kid could be). Lost interest until recently.
I started buying a few gold coins as an investment...and now I am hooked on coins again...even more than I was before.
I am focusing on a type set of my "dream coins" (or coins I find that become dream coins)
OK, so there's my short and sweet story,
My question is, are "rare" coins, or desirable, coins considered (in your mind) as strong of an investment as gold? I have a $20 Gaudens worth around $2.5-3k that I would love to sell and get something I really want (the only reason I have it is because of the gold). I would love the answer to be "sell it and buy the coin you want" but I would really like your honest answer from an investment and solely an investment standpoint. I already have some new coins that I love, so I don't need to invest in what makes me happy (at this minute) but ya...
The reason I am asking is because I am now a poor post-college kid with expensive hobbies...and if I am going to get any of the high-end coins I want, at this point, I would probably have to sell one of my gold pieces. (recently got an ms63 $20 lib. Not rare, but I like it a lot more than my Gaudens)
Sorry if that was long and drawn out, but I would love to hear what you think!
zackbaldwin.com
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Comments
i think you use the word 'invest' too often......collect what you like.....make this a 'hobby' for you......there are lots of great coins/tokens/medals that are under $50 believe it or not
www.brunkauctions.com
grading skill, access to coins, market knowledge
Be honest, how do you rate? Not only against other young collectors, but the much more experienced and the many dealers, because that's who you are competing against. If a person is top 20% in all three areas, numismatic is a good way to go, because that top group tends to do very well. Well above average in at least two, and that person has a shot. Below average in one or more areas, and that person is probably better off in straight bullion or bullion related coins. The bullion may go up or down, but at least you'll have a fair shot in a near even game (even bullion has the bid/ask spread). In the numismatic game, players with above average skills consistently take money from those with below average skills. If you are the patsie, don't play. If you want in, you may have to up your game, in terms of grading, access, and market knowledge.
As always, collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. If you want to look at it as an investment, best take a business plan approach and make sure you have enough chops to compete in a very competitive game before putting in big money.
The gold will hold it's value in dollars at the very least.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Debate or discussion ? I won't debate that gold's been good, but it's still dependent on "THE COIN". Those who use the sheet as a guide for pricing, particularly if they cannot grade, really do miss out on the meat and potatoes by not reading between the lines. Those who pay a fair price based on the grade can still come out way ahead in the most fun hobby , besides golf (oh that's a sport, nevermind) ever created for man's enjoyment.
B
Also, in honor of starting afresh with all this, I am going to re-register here with a new username (one that reflects me more now), so my new username will be "comma", just throwing that out there haha (waiting for it to get approved)
And thanks again for all the replies so far on this
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>You shouldnt get so wracked up in the.investment and have fun collecting. >>
I guess I'm just secretly hoping I can double dip and have it be something I love AND something good for my future
<< <i>RedTiger is correct. However, unbrok3n is 22 years old and has plenty of time to learn. The best "investment" at this age is to make lots of mistakes with (what will in retrospect become) small amounts of money, so I would encourage unbrok3n to make the switch from bullion and jump into rare coins. >>
Many that do well in coins have already shown a spark by that age. If the talent is not there, coins become an uphill struggle to break even, more of a chore or a job. Fine, if that is what a person really wants to do, but a poor business decision to sink significant money into, if a person doesn't have near the natural talent to compete. There is natural talent in terms of an "eye" for coins that I believe many are born with, and hone with training. There are people skills to negotiate deals, and build relationships. Market knowledge also can depend on having the kind of mind that enjoys tracking trends in pricing and availability. Again, if a person has the chops, it probably has shown by age 22 already, especially in the Internet age.
There is a famous though perhaps fictional story that I like to repeat. It is about a different field, but it applies here. A young composer goes to a performance where the great Mozart is in attendance. After the performance, the young man goes up to the genius and asks if Mozart has any advice for him about composing music. Mozart says, "yes I do, focus on simple pieces." The young man is taken aback and says "simple pieces? When you were my age, you were composing complete symphonies." Mozart nods and says, "yes, but I never asked anyone for advice about composing music."
So it is here, someone looking for advice is less likely to have the chops. Those that have the talent are doing. More than a few young numismatists, some younger than 22, are on the forum, the Internet, wheeling, dealing, making mistakes, building relationships, building a reputation. Those that have the talent aren't usually asking these kinds of questions. Those that lack the talent are going to have their lunch eaten by those that do, repeatedly. Sure, enough hard knocks and hard work can get a person up there, but does a person really want to do that? It really is a job then, not a hobby, not an monetary investment only.
If it was me at your age.........only if I was....oh the good old days
Getting back to my point.......
You just got back into collecting, save your gold, it will go up and keep looking at all the coins out there.
You will soon learn grading and pricing and trends.....Trends are very important(investment wise)
By then, your gold will be valued higher and if you need the money for the coins you truly desire and think it will be a wise investment
then sell.
The worse mistake is to buy all that eye candy you see and find out that "investment wise" was not so wise
Slow down and read, research and then your gut will soon speak to you, this I guaranty you!
I read so much after only a few years people thought I was in numismatics for years.....
I started collecting World Gold and then over the years bought low grade stuff, visited as many shops as possible to actually see and examine the graded coins.
I was into Morgans, still am but then Tokens US and British took me by surprise and I found out I really liked them and a few years back they were reasonable.
Now they are sky high in better mint state grades.
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Is gold still at or near its all-time high? If it is, sell.
Also consider how valuable your time and enjoyment will be owning, studying and appreciating coins you really love, rather than just round hunks of metal that don't mean much to you.
I get a rush from owning each coin in my collection. I'm having a blast. My investment in this hobby is paying great dividends. I don't own any gold.
<< <i>I think RedTiger puts it very well and excellent advise.
If it was me at your age.........only if I was....oh the good old days
Getting back to my point.......
You just got back into collecting, save your gold, it will go up and keep looking at all the coins out there.
You will soon learn grading and pricing and trends.....Trends are very important(investment wise)
By then, your gold will be valued higher and if you need the money for the coins you truly desire and think it will be a wise investment
then sell.
The worse mistake is to buy all that eye candy you see and find out that "investment wise" was not so wise
Slow down and read, research and then your gut will soon speak to you, this I guaranty you!
I read so much after only a few years people thought I was in numismatics for years.....
I started collecting World Gold and then over the years bought low grade stuff, visited as many shops as possible to actually see and examine the graded coins.
I was into Morgans, still am but then Tokens US and British took me by surprise and I found out I really liked them and a few years back they were reasonable.
Now they are sky high in better mint state grades. >>
Case and point. Im a little older than you at the age of 25 and have been collecting since I was 18.
Anyways for a number of years I never understood the toner market. Still barely understand it, but after watching many toned sets being formed.
I decided to try and go for a 1921 morgan toner set inspried by the qouted member.
However just because 1921 toners are rare I learned doesnt mean I have to pay moon money, I can find them for slightly above melt and with vicious toning.
You have plenty of time to "make money".
Enjoy!
<< <i>Yeesh. Look up what those gold coins were worth a few years ago. Is it really a stretch to think that gold MIGHT be in a bubble and will revert back? So those gold coins might drop back? If I owned expensive gold coins, I'd sell them and buy expensive non-gold "collector" coins. I'd buy the same gold coins back later with the proceeds from the collector coins, but hopefully twice as many. >>
In most cases if one looked up the "price of those gold coins" their value would be worth far less today then in 2008 even with gold doubling the past three years.
Just something to think about. In 2008 with the price of gold at $878 an eight piece gold set in 63 in 64 and 65 was worth $67,000. Today the same sets are worth $53,000. They lost $14,000. In the meanwhile gold itself doubled! If you owned $67,000 in gold bullion in 2008 it would now be worth about $125,000 or a gain of $59,000. If the same generic coins were bought in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009 the story would be even worse. Gold bullion murdered generic gold in the 2000's. If anything someone who has made a ton of money in gold bullion over the past ten years might want to consider buying quality generic gold coins with their proceeds. It would take some of the sting out of a falling gold price. Today the premiums on generic gold have shrunk so drastically to the point that they should be considered. If one wants to play an arbitrage game on generic gold the now looks like a pretty decent time to do so.
If one wants gold, buy gold bullion.. If one wants to play the rare coin game then choose wisely and be prepared to hold for a long time.
While I do own both I personally do not consider gold or rare coins as investments..........Good luck to the OP............MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It's easy to get burned and with the internet it's a lot easier to become a "wonderboy". Follow your own dreams and make today worth all the sunshine or clouds that come. Mostly though, like I tell my daughter who's your age : ... better to be fair than to fare better. That is, if you want a better tomorrow.
*edit to add : Not six saints, rather six gold coins
Many people who have done well "investing" in the coin market (or anything else of that matter) underestimate the role of good luck and overestimate their genius.
<< <i>The way the question is framed suggests that you need to learn quite a bit more about the coin market before "investing" significant sums of money. A mentor would be of great use.
Many people who have done well "investing" in the coin market (or anything else of that matter) underestimate the role of good luck and overestimate their genius. >>
I agree. I am also a novice and have focused on bullion the last couple years until I learn more.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I'd say that this thread already contains a bunch of great advice and great insight. These folks know what they're talking about.
To add some perspective, I arrived at my own answer to your question after agonizing in the same way that you are agonizing now. My own solution was as follows:
1) I collected almost all of the series in Whitman folders for many years, even multiples as well. Ultimately, I figured out that I didn't need to collect everything in order to get some satisfaction from collecting. So, I started collecting in one area. For me, it was Large Cents - for you it could be anything that tickles your fancy. The interesting thing is that when a commitment begins, the collection only gets more interesting over time. There's never a reason to hurry.
2) When the "investment bug" hit me, I started buying the lowest premium gold coins - which at the time turned out to be American Gold Eagles (1986 era). Although I kept most of those gold coins, my income didn't flourish until a good 15 years later - so my "investing" didn't really become investing until I had enough money to make it really count. As an investment, whether it is coins, bullion, stocks, property or anything else - the more you know, the better you will do. Again, there is no rush in these areas either. From an investing standpoint - get good at what you do, and the rest will work itself out. There will ALWAYS be market fluctuations, so keep that in mind as well.
3) In my own instance, my solution to the problem you posed above was: to combine #1 and #2 above. They are not mutually-inclusive - you can collect, and you can also invest - but they do not necessarily have to be the same thing at the same time.
I knew it would happen.
Personally I would lean more towards investing in myself. Graphic design, photography and fine art are rewarding but resource intensive fields which can and do have phenomenal returns on capital investment and are much more immediate.
You can never have too much equipment or too many materials to work with to be honest. Even up-scaling your output could yield a nice return; if you're putting out 3 color screenprints go with one at 13; if you're doing epson photo printing, take the plunge into silver-gelatin and so on. Siphoning money away from a career of this type at this stage isn't always the most effective way to advance fiscal interests. To a degree, a relatively good rule of thumb is that if you're in these fields at this stage of a career and you have any money left over, you're doing it wrong.
That being said, if you don't already have years of experience invested into the coin market, and you're comfortable allocating your surplus to an investment, have you considered aligning your assets with your career? Investing in art is a good way to double dip your time; what you have to learn and know to create success in investing translates reasonably well in a host of ways into the success of a career. Learning about how money is spent in the field can meaningfully inform your understanding of how to make a viable career outside of contract design work.
Let the hobby be a hobby and enjoy it.
Economic times are coming to a head over the next 2-3 yrs so coin prices as a rule will stay weak or fall further. The top 1-5% will do fine as they always have.
But with a limited budget this is probably not for you. I'd suggest finding a niche area that is still undervalued behind the rest of the main market. It could be
cameos, varieties, errors, moderns or classics, circs-proofs-or uncs. But find something a bit off the beaten path that you can come up to speed on a build a
modest but worthwhile collection that won't bury you financially.
I agree with MJ about the gold. Bullion will probably continue to outpace the coin market in general over the next 2-3 yrs as our debt money system winding down
comes to a head. The premiums on $20's even up to MS63/64 is laughably small (ie 16% for MS64 saints and MS63 $20 Libs). If you have some I'd continue to
sit on them. Take the next 2-3 yrs to learn all you can about rare coins such that you'll be ready to buy them when things hit bottom in a couple of years. But for
now continue to learn and don't plow too much money into a market that is only hanging on because of gold bullion being hot. Most local shops are only surviving because
of bullion sales and purchases. So if dealers are buying, they are paying less and less. I don't see the trend shifting for years. The last bull market in coins took about
5-6 years to bottom out. If this one follows that same path, figure on 2013-2014 as a possible bottom where you can buy some of your favorite coins on sale. I'd stay
away from higher end type coins. Many or most of those have still not even reached their peaks from 1980 or 1989/90 and are continuing to unwind 30+ yrs of inflationary
price gains. There's nothing wrong with trying to collect the best coins you can afford and strive to make money at it. Probably over half of the hobby would walk away today
if they knew they would lose money on their coins over the next 5-20 yrs. There are no doubt some prime areas with great potential in our hobby. The hard part is finding
them and staying committed.
roadrunner
When I was your age I had a shop I dealt with that had two 1 gallon metal pails by the door filled with Civil War Tokens (CWTs). These were from VG-MS64, most were AU, and they were priced at $5 each...yup, that's right, $5. If I had only had the foresight, the sense, the brains to buy 100, 1,000, one bucket, both buckets...I would be retired now. I bought, err, umm...2.
Find a niche, start in a cheap niche to get those 1000% mistakes out of the way. A 1000% mistake on a $5 coin is only $50...that beats the heck out of making that mistake with a $500 coin.
Listen to some of us who have already made all the mistakes...and have fun!!!
If you want a true investment, look into pumpkin futures. Just make sure you sell before October 31.
<< <i>Coins, for most people, are a hobby.
If you want a true investment, look into pumpkin futures. Just make sure you sell before October 31. >>
At what $$$ point does a coin cease being a hobby expense and start becoming an investment?
<< <i>
<< <i>Coins, for most people, are a hobby.
If you want a true investment, look into pumpkin futures. Just make sure you sell before October 31. >>
At what $$$ point does a coin cease being a hobby expense and start becoming an investment? >>
Can you clarify your question? I'm a little confused by it.
An investment is risking one's money in pursuit of greater returns.
So, if you buy a coin as an investment, I take it to mean that the investor expects to make some kind of return on his/her investment. Right?
If you buy a coin because you enjoy building a collection, or history, or the artistic merits of a coin, isn't that a little different than expecting a rate of return at some future date?
There is a grey area that crosses inbetween hobby and investment, I suppose, but I have no idea how to define it.
Some people buy and fix up old cars as a hobby and sell it them for a profit (or a loss). I wouldn't call them "investors".
At what $$$ point does a coin cease being a hobby expense and start becoming an investment? >>
No fixed amount, I consider coins an "investment" when you reach the point where you are spending money that would normally be going into a retirement fund or the equivalent. It's easy to do
I have always been the person to buy what I want (in a smart way) use it until I got sick of it, and make a profit. I have just always been able to do that. I am also very money-concious and stingy I guess you could say. But I like to think I am smart with money. Anyway, I guess that idea is what I am hoping I can do with coins. I understand there is a lot of knowledge and work that goes into this, but Id like to believe I could be good at it. When I got out of coins when I was younger, I made a significant amount on my collection over what I paid.
So I guess when I say "investment" it might not be in 100% traditional sense...I love doing it, and I am not trying to seperate collecting and traditional investing...maybe just marry the 2
I have mutual funds, gold, etc, so I think ultimately "rare coins" would just be on top of that. I only asked about selling the gold because honestly, there are many other coins I would love to look at more than a Gaudens (as pretty as they are).
<< <i>I think RedTiger puts it very well and excellent advise.
If it was me at your age.........only if I was....oh the good old days
Getting back to my point.......
You just got back into collecting, save your gold, it will go up and keep looking at all the coins out there.
You will soon learn grading and pricing and trends.....Trends are very important(investment wise)
By then, your gold will be valued higher and if you need the money for the coins you truly desire and think it will be a wise investment
then sell.
The worse mistake is to buy all that eye candy you see and find out that "investment wise" was not so wise
Slow down and read, research and then your gut will soon speak to you, this I guaranty you!
I read so much after only a few years people thought I was in numismatics for years.....
I started collecting World Gold and then over the years bought low grade stuff, visited as many shops as possible to actually see and examine the graded coins.
I was into Morgans, still am but then Tokens US and British took me by surprise and I found out I really liked them and a few years back they were reasonable.
Now they are sky high in better mint state grades. >>
Thanks Stefanie...I agree that I do need to start getting back into the "scene". It has been a long time. Part of me is just impatient and wants to buy whatever I like...as you know. That has always been a problem, and I have always been lucky with it as far as money goes.
I have a ways to go
<< <i>Anything that has a large buy/sell spread is not what I'd call a good investment. >>
Depends if you are a high-risk or no-risk investor
<< <i>1st rule of investing: Buy low and sell high.
Is gold still at or near its all-time high? If it is, sell.
Also consider how valuable your time and enjoyment will be owning, studying and appreciating coins you really love, rather than just round hunks of metal that don't mean much to you.
I get a rush from owning each coin in my collection. I'm having a blast. My investment in this hobby is paying great dividends. I don't own any gold. >>
I would wait until gold went back up, at least slightly, to sell. And ya, my time and enjoyment is very important..and I enojy the few high-end "dream" coins I have so much. I definitely get a rush from it
<< <i>
<< <i>RedTiger is correct. However, unbrok3n is 22 years old and has plenty of time to learn. The best "investment" at this age is to make lots of mistakes with (what will in retrospect become) small amounts of money, so I would encourage unbrok3n to make the switch from bullion and jump into rare coins. >>
Many that do well in coins have already shown a spark by that age. If the talent is not there, coins become an uphill struggle to break even, more of a chore or a job. Fine, if that is what a person really wants to do, but a poor business decision to sink significant money into, if a person doesn't have near the natural talent to compete. There is natural talent in terms of an "eye" for coins that I believe many are born with, and hone with training. There are people skills to negotiate deals, and build relationships. Market knowledge also can depend on having the kind of mind that enjoys tracking trends in pricing and availability. Again, if a person has the chops, it probably has shown by age 22 already, especially in the Internet age.
There is a famous though perhaps fictional story that I like to repeat. It is about a different field, but it applies here. A young composer goes to a performance where the great Mozart is in attendance. After the performance, the young man goes up to the genius and asks if Mozart has any advice for him about composing music. Mozart says, "yes I do, focus on simple pieces." The young man is taken aback and says "simple pieces? When you were my age, you were composing complete symphonies." Mozart nods and says, "yes, but I never asked anyone for advice about composing music."
So it is here, someone looking for advice is less likely to have the chops. Those that have the talent are doing. More than a few young numismatists, some younger than 22, are on the forum, the Internet, wheeling, dealing, making mistakes, building relationships, building a reputation. Those that have the talent aren't usually asking these kinds of questions. Those that lack the talent are going to have their lunch eaten by those that do, repeatedly. Sure, enough hard knocks and hard work can get a person up there, but does a person really want to do that? It really is a job then, not a hobby, not an monetary investment only. >>
Thank you so much for this in-depth response.
If you don't realize you love something by 22, how can you base whether they will be "good" at it based on age? That confused me a bit
I'm not trying to jump the gun or anything, or jump into something I know nothing about.
In your opinion though, for coins that have a buy/sell history that I can see, based on that couldn't someone new to the game at least make some educational decisions on coin buying? I am in no way about to go out and buy loose coins or take huge risks (thats not who I am at all)...
I guess I'm not so much looking for advice as much as opinions or what others are doing on this subject.
As I stated in a previous post, I think I do have the talent for buying and selling (in multiple fields), and coins are something I was once into very much. Also, I feel that having a passion now helps.
<< <i> guess I'm just secretly hoping I can double dip and have it be something I love AND something good for my future
I'd say that this thread already contains a bunch of great advice and great insight. These folks know what they're talking about.
To add some perspective, I arrived at my own answer to your question after agonizing in the same way that you are agonizing now. My own solution was as follows:
1) I collected almost all of the series in Whitman folders for many years, even multiples as well. Ultimately, I figured out that I didn't need to collect everything in order to get some satisfaction from collecting. So, I started collecting in one area. For me, it was Large Cents - for you it could be anything that tickles your fancy. The interesting thing is that when a commitment begins, the collection only gets more interesting over time. There's never a reason to hurry.
2) When the "investment bug" hit me, I started buying the lowest premium gold coins - which at the time turned out to be American Gold Eagles (1986 era). Although I kept most of those gold coins, my income didn't flourish until a good 15 years later - so my "investing" didn't really become investing until I had enough money to make it really count. As an investment, whether it is coins, bullion, stocks, property or anything else - the more you know, the better you will do. Again, there is no rush in these areas either. From an investing standpoint - get good at what you do, and the rest will work itself out. There will ALWAYS be market fluctuations, so keep that in mind as well.
3) In my own instance, my solution to the problem you posed above was: to combine #1 and #2 above. They are not mutually-inclusive - you can collect, and you can also invest - but they do not necessarily have to be the same thing at the same time. >>
Great advice. When I was younger I did the whitman thing. Ended up selling all of that and making a good profit. I am now into more of getting a nice 20 coin type set of coins I love.
I agree that a marriage of 1 and 2 is a good solution
<< <i>I'm going to go completely contrarian here.
Personally I would lean more towards investing in myself. Graphic design, photography and fine art are rewarding but resource intensive fields which can and do have phenomenal returns on capital investment and are much more immediate.
You can never have too much equipment or too many materials to work with to be honest. Even up-scaling your output could yield a nice return; if you're putting out 3 color screenprints go with one at 13; if you're doing epson photo printing, take the plunge into silver-gelatin and so on. Siphoning money away from a career of this type at this stage isn't always the most effective way to advance fiscal interests. To a degree, a relatively good rule of thumb is that if you're in these fields at this stage of a career and you have any money left over, you're doing it wrong.
That being said, if you don't already have years of experience invested into the coin market, and you're comfortable allocating your surplus to an investment, have you considered aligning your assets with your career? Investing in art is a good way to double dip your time; what you have to learn and know to create success in investing translates reasonably well in a host of ways into the success of a career. Learning about how money is spent in the field can meaningfully inform your understanding of how to make a viable career outside of contract design work.
Let the hobby be a hobby and enjoy it. >>
Thanks for the input! Do you mean invest in actual fine art pieces or invest in my industry?
I love coins, as much as I love what I do, and since I do graphic design/art so much, coins is a slight reprieve..
I look back at my extensive history of buying coins and numismatic material and learned that when buying numismatic material because it was a "good investment or very underpriced" I usually had an inferior rate of return versus buying other numismatic material because it was NOT buying "from the heart."
I remember buying commemoratives and 3 cent nickel coins because they were too cheap and such cheap prices would not last forever. They are even cheaper today.
I remember buying "market hot" coins such as the 1970-S "athiest (cud) cent and they went nowhere for years and years, same for the 1982 no P dimes, etc. etc.
I sold the coins I loved back in 1982 and 1983 at Bowers and Merena auctions which were the superb gem walkers from 1927-1947. While I did quite well, it hurt and hurt badly.
For years, I promised I would never do a complete set of gem walkers ever again. I just found a way around such promise after 28 YEARS!.
I have learned that the best way to be a coin collector is to buy from the "heart." and keep it. Don't play the upgrade game. If the coin is NOT the grade you ultimately want, WAIT! Buy it when you can afford it.
But a coin collector should be smart and not just buy only pure collector coins. Mix in some wheaties, 90% junk silver coins, including BU rolls of 1940 to 1962 dimes, quarters and halves, some gold coins, priced close to bullion, so the coin collector has some very market liquid coins in case of an emergency. Once in a while, the bullion related coins will outperform the collector coins but stay the course!
I can provide examples of buying from the "heart" but most of you know what I collect, so I will let you fill that in.
I want to buy from the heart. I realize I may have sounded a little more confusing throwing in all the investment stuff...it's just how I think.
Ultimately, I love coins (again) and I want pieces of history, because I want them, not because I want to resell them someday. I guess the "investment" for me means more of, buy what I love, then if an emergency comes along I can sell them for what I paid or make a little.
Thanks again for all the input here!
You got it!
<< <i>To continue roadrunner's first paragraph...
When I was your age I had a shop I dealt with that had two 1 gallon metal pails by the door filled with Civil War Tokens (CWTs). These were from VG-MS64, most were AU, and they were priced at $5 each...yup, that's right, $5. If I had only had the foresight, the sense, the brains to buy 100, 1,000, one bucket, both buckets...I would be retired now. I bought, err, umm...2.
Find a niche, start in a cheap niche to get those 1000% mistakes out of the way. A 1000% mistake on a $5 coin is only $50...that beats the heck out of making that mistake with a $500 coin.
Listen to some of us who have already made all the mistakes...and have fun!!!
Errr ill double your money at $10 a piece, gimme those buckets!!!
We all pass on opportunities, AT one point i bought a compkete coca-cola art bar collection for melt. Sold it next day for a premium of $200. That buyer sold it off a week later for a profit of $1500... Oh well
When ATB's first came out, i was unaware of their collector value. I was buying them at $3 back of spot per/oz. Abd melting them down for a profit of $13 per puck. Melted close to 120 till I was informed of my stupidity.
Great advice though... Find a niche
It's a very different gear to use than most of the ones you need for producing it yourself. Returns are all over the map but working with your existing body of compentency can be a huge advantage.