Any thoughts on this Chain Cent?

okracer · October 16, 2011 11:12PM

Saw this on the bay:

Chain Cent on Ebay

I haven't done diagnostics on it, but it doesn't look right for some reason..................... Otherwise looks to be high grade(?)

Any opinions?

Staircoins · October 16, 2011 11:17PM

I'm thinking possibly tooled?

Disclaimer: Chain cents are out of my area of expertise.

lkeigwin · October 16, 2011 11:43PM

Funny...seller says "coin has been cleaned and appears to have been dipped"...perhaps as a way of avoiding the obvious question as to why its not slabbed.

I would love a chain cent in this condition but I'd want assurance it is genuine with no fatal flaws like tooling or plugging.
Lance.

AnkurJ · October 16, 2011 11:48PM

The edge seems to not have any markings. Most chains have vine & bars. This could be an electrotype.

Edit: I just spoke to the place that is selling it, and it does have the vine and bar pattern on the edge. I asked what their return policy would be if found to be a cast copy, and was told a full refund would be given. Doesn't seem like much of a risk, but the coin does look cleaned or smoothed out.

AJ

Barry · October 17, 2011 12:03AM

Don't buy raw, expensive coins on Ebay.

Walkerguy21D · October 17, 2011 12:24AM

<< I would love a chain cent in this condition but I'd want assurance it is genuine with no fatal flaws like tooling or plugging. >>

My exact thoughts, Lance, as soon as I saw the pic. Probably one of those 'too good to be true coins', but you never know.

johnny9434 · October 17, 2011 3:02AM

<< Don't buy raw, expensive coins on Ebay. >>

shorecoll · October 17, 2011 3:36AM

If it's a decent dealer, ask them to have it slabbed and you'll buy it if it comes back in a genuine holder.

Bochiman · October 17, 2011 3:39AM

They take paypal as well as credit cards (ie...call them and use credit card).
If the coin is purchased, received, submitted and found to NOT be genuine, it wouldn't be difficult to do a CC chargeback as it isn't legal to sell counterfeit coins (dcarr and his atrocities not-withstanding

).

So, if you are only worried about it being GEN, then it looks doable. If you are looking for a graded example....that's a different story...I wouldn't buy raw in that case.

AnkurJ · October 17, 2011 4:18AM

<< They take paypal as well as credit cards (ie...call them and use credit card).
If the coin is purchased, received, submitted and found to NOT be genuine, it wouldn't be difficult to do a CC chargeback as it isn't legal to sell counterfeit coins (dcarr and his atrocities not-withstanding

).

So, if you are only worried about it being GEN, then it looks doable. If you are looking for a graded example....that's a different story...I wouldn't buy raw in that case. >>

As I stated above: I asked what their return policy would be if found to be a cast copy, and was told a full refund would be given. Doesn't seem like much of a risk, but the coin does look cleaned or smoothed out.

It does have good detail and not terrible corrosion like most of them have.

relicsncoins · October 17, 2011 4:29AM

If genuine, there is a heck of a lot of meat left on that piece.

Staircoins · October 17, 2011 5:57AM

To me it does not have the look of a cast copy. Rather, I would worry about it having been tooled. The fields appear to have had some smoothing done, and some of the devices (the hair, the profile, possibly also the chain.), appear to have had some work done as well.

Or perhaps I am all wet. I'd like for a chain cent specialist to chime in. Perhaps none are willing to comment because they will be bidding on the coin? Calling attention to coins that are up for sale can be risky in that regard.

STONE · October 17, 2011 6:02AM

<< To me it does not have the look of a cast copy. Rather, I would worry about it having been tooled. The fields appear to have had some smoothing done, and some of the devices (the hair, the profile, possibly also the chain.), appear to have had some work done as well.

Or perhaps I am all wet. I'd like for a chain cent specialist to chime in. Perhaps none are willing to comment because they will be bidding on the coin? Calling attention to coins that are up for sale can be risky in that regard. >>

...Yes it is risky since I plan to bid on it, although I'm sure I won't win it...but maybe!!!

mr1931S · October 17, 2011 6:31AM

What would an authentic one of these be worth in today's market?

renomedphys · October 17, 2011 7:05AM

<< What would an authentic one of these be worth in today's market? >>

At least $10K, but looking like that, perhaps $20K, even if messed with and gennie.

P.S. Am I the only one that thinks the date looks wrong?

AnkurJ · October 17, 2011 7:56AM

According to the seller there is edge detail. Most cast copies don't bother have that.

grote15 · October 17, 2011 8:08AM

I can understand why it wouldn't be in a holder if PCGS didn't holder problem coins, but they have now done so for quite some time. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it were in a genuine holder. If so, that piece is stunning, which I suppose is all the more reason to have it authenticated.

LindeDad · October 17, 2011 8:09AM

Is that thing giving us the Evil Eye?

crypto79 · October 17, 2011 8:26AM

I suspect that coin is going to go for strong money. I think that once the EAC guys get a sniff of that they will be able to tell exactly what is up and bid it accordingly. That said I don't see anything horribly wrong with it (why I don't collect copper coins) and I have it watched now and bet it gets 10k of bids in the last 10secs

NewEnglandRarities · October 17, 2011 10:09AM

<< I suspect that coin is going to go for strong money. I think that once the EAC guys get a sniff of that they will be able to tell exactly what is up and bid it accordingly. That said I don't see anything horribly wrong with it (why I don't collect copper coins) and I have it watched now and bet it gets 10k of bids in the last 10secs >>

I won't pretend to be an expert in any way on Large Cents, but I agree that I do not see much wrong with this coin other than some marks. Unless this is a very well made Electrotype or a copy I am not aware of, I would tend to agree that there will be a whole bunch of high bids during the last 10 seconds and it will sell for strong (raw) money.

AnkurJ · October 17, 2011 10:18AM

I see rim bumps and possibly smoothed out corrosion. There is no way the coin is worth $10k even in a geunine holder.

AMRC · October 17, 2011 11:49AM

Let me repeat "Don't buy raw, expensive coins on Ebay. "

joecopper · October 17, 2011 8:26PM

okracer --

The date spacing looks wrong (7 & 9) too close, the point of the neck too long, and the hair looks off - comparing to pic in Noyes book.
Also, the weaknesses in the chains seems too consistent. I may be wrong as dies can vary and I am no expert there. Interesting to see where bidding ends.

crypto79 · October 17, 2011 8:46PM

<< Let me repeat "Don't buy raw, expensive coins on Ebay. " >>

If you don't know what you're doing. Lots of big money coins cross the block on ebay and a lot of people make money taking chances but as in life the house always wins.

BillJones · October 17, 2011 9:16PM

<< I see rim bumps and possibly smoothed out corrosion. There is no way the coin is worth $10k even in a geunine holder. >>

This coin would be worth $10,000 if it still has its vines and bars edge device and if were in a PCGS or NGC net grade or genunine holder. The prices for graded pieces with minor problems are very high. When pieces graded Good, which you would probably grade AG, are selling for $7,000, a "genuine" piece with this much "meat" would sell for $10,000. Despite the scratch, this one is now in a graded holder and would sell for $30,000 or more.

Nevertheless there is some reason, and probably not a good one, is why this piece in eBay has not been authenticated by PCGS or NGC.

rare1 · October 17, 2011 9:45PM

run forrest run

crypto79 · October 19, 2011 5:38AM

Any guess at what it will close at I say $9350

BaseballAbs · October 19, 2011 6:04AM

I wish I knew more about Chain Cents so I could say it's a fake, but I can't. In my opinion it would have been cheap insurance to a buyer and less nerve racking to have just spent the $30 and put it in TPG Holder. I would never in a million years buy that expensive of a raw coin off Ebay

AnkurJ · October 24, 2011 8:26AM

Wow! Went for much more than I would have guessed. A big risk for the winner imo considering slabbed examples with issues sell for the same or less.

crypto79 · October 24, 2011 8:55AM

<< Wow! Went for much more than I would have guessed. A big risk for the winner imo considering slabbed examples with issues sell for the same or less. >>

Good god it went for much more then I thought too. I knew the EAC guys would bid it up to value but that is strong money for anything

BigMoose · October 24, 2011 8:56AM

That looks like a genuine S-3. Strong price for a coin with many bad rim dings, and the color looks off as well.

BigMoose · October 25, 2011 5:37AM

That being said, it could certainly be an electrotype of a genuine S-3 Chain Cent. Would have to look at it more closely to tell.

bestclser1 · October 25, 2011 7:15AM

<< That being said, it could certainly be an electrotype of a genuine S-3 Chain Cent. Would have to look at it more closely to tell. >>

Hey Big Moose,I am going to finally make FUN this year,hope you are there.Been awhile.Best,Lloyd

Any thoughts on this Chain Cent?

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