Paypal request for SSN question
slipgate
Posts: 2,301 ✭✭
I usually don't sell on ebay, just buy. But recently I sold about $7k worth of coins over a 6 month period of course via Paypal. Not a big amount. But since then I have Paypal harrassing me with phone calls and emails about giving them my State Tax ID or SSN number "to comply with IRS rules". They said if I sold $20k in a year they were obligated to report it. I am no where near this amount and never will be. They also called me harrassing me for receipts for when I bought the stuff that I sold because "obviously I was a business". I told the guy that it was my personal collection that I was selling. He seemed satisfied but the emails persist and just picked up in volume. WTF? Is this normal? I am very, very close to closing My paypay account and never using ebay again for buying or selling! I don't plan on giving them my SSN.
My Registry Sets! PCGS Registry
0
Comments
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>I usually don't sell on ebay, just buy. But recently I sold about $7k worth of coins over a 6 month period of course via Paypal. Not a big amount. But since then I have Paypal harrassing me with phone calls and emails about giving them my State Tax ID or SSN number "to comply with IRS rules". They said if I sold $20k in a year they were obligated to report it. I am no where near this amount and never will be. They also called me harrassing me for receipts for when I bought the stuff that I sold because "obviously I was a business". I told the guy that it was my personal collection that I was selling. He seemed satisfied but the emails persist and just picked up in volume. WTF? Is this normal? I am very, very close to closing My paypay account and never using ebay again for buying or selling! I don't plan on giving them my SSN. >>
Paypal needs your social security number to determine that you do not have multiple Paypal and/or Ebay accounts to circumvent the reporting limits. They will only file a report if you exceed the reporting requirements. It's very much like the cash transaction reporting requirments where the burden of proof is on the coin dealer to develop a plan that will prevent buyers from "structuring" or making "related" transactions to stay under the limits.
Closing your account will not stop their requests for the information. In fact, it may flag you for closer scrutiny for acting "suspicious."
<< <i>I usually don't sell on ebay, just buy. But recently I sold about $7k worth of coins over a 6 month period of course via Paypal. Not a big amount. But since then I have Paypal harrassing me with phone calls and emails about giving them my State Tax ID or SSN number "to comply with IRS rules". They said if I sold $20k in a year they were obligated to report it. I am no where near this amount and never will be. They also called me harrassing me for receipts for when I bought the stuff that I sold because "obviously I was a business". I told the guy that it was my personal collection that I was selling. He seemed satisfied but the emails persist and just picked up in volume. WTF? Is this normal? I am very, very close to closing My paypay account and never using ebay again for buying or selling! I don't plan on giving them my SSN. >>
Don't blame PayPal. It's not their doing. It's the new reporting requirement that goes into effect in 2012 (for 2011) that requires all third-party payment processors (PayPal, Google Checkout, merchant Visa/Mastercard processors, etc.) to report gross receipts to the IRS of anyone who does more than 200 receipt transactions *AND* $20,000 cumulatively in a calendar year.
When you received $7K in 6 months you hit their radar as a candidate to possibly surpass $20K in a year. Not an unreasonable assumption. They are simply doing their due diligence under the law.
Just because you tell them that you'll never hit $20K doesn't relieve them of their obligation. How are they to know if you're telling the truth?
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>If they need your tax identification number (SSN) for tax reporting purposes, there is a proper way for them to request it and badgering you over the phone isn't the proper way. >>
To clarify, I would probably not just give it out over the phone to someone... but if they are emailing you for the information and requesting you fill out an IRS Form W-9 Request for your number, then that's a different story.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>They are just following the law. Log into your paypal account and give them your ssn# >>
i concur
they are probably government-mandated to report members with $XXXXXX in sales to cross reference to see who isn's reporting sales on their taxes
gave them my EIN, took about 30 seconds.
.
.
Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL
Text
This is the new law that went into effect this year. It is part of the new Obamacare mandate. It is a way of obtaining money for Obamacare through on-line transactions. Many dealers have stopped selling on-line because of it and many dealers will be unpleasantly surprised when they receive the 1099-k IRS form in January.
I needed property tax money in January and sold a St Gaudens MS63 for $2350 .
Now I'm on their radar? I dont have any more double eagles . Besides , while
paypal is required to track user ID and parameters mentioned above , I do not
believe they can require your SS number . That should be info between the
business and the IRS only .
I needed property tax money in January and sold a St Gaudens MS63 for $2350 .
Now I'm on their radar? I dont have any more double eagles . Besides , while
paypal is required to track user ID and parameters mentioned above , I do not
believe they can require your SS number . That should be info between the
business and the IRS only .
No, it's 200 transactions AND 20K in sales . You musr surpass BOTH
This internet thing / electronic age ain't all it's cracked up to be. Tough to weigh the benefits vs. the rewards sometimes.
<< <i>Thanks , I stand corrected . >>
I stand corrected everytime I talk with my wife LOL
Schedule C
You may want to consider that you are not a business, just a guy selling his collection, and use the Capital Gains form to avoid the additional self employment tax of 13.3% that is paid by those using Schedule C. Keep in mind coins are subject to the flat "collectible" rate of 28% when using Schedule D.
Schedule D
One must weigh both outcomes to choose which route results in the cheapest tax bill.
Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL
I certainly wouldn't give ANYONE or ANY COMPANY personal information they don't need.
<< <i>Sorry, but until you pass their limits, they don't need your information.
I certainly wouldn't give ANYONE or ANY COMPANY personal information they don't need. >>
They need it. They realize you may have multiple accounts and the IRS requirement is for the total income per taxpayer, not just per account. The only way they can comply with the IRS rule is to have a SSN for all accounts. They need to know if your cumulative total among all accounts exceeds the limit.
Exit bunker, enter Matrix. LOL
<< <i>Sorry, but until you pass their limits, they don't need your information.
I certainly wouldn't give ANYONE or ANY COMPANY personal information they don't need. >>
But if they request your information using the IRS Form W-9, you might want to just give it to them, otherwise you open yourself up to possible penalties for not producing your number.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
But, I know board members here have no worries as I'm sure they claim all income they receive. I mean, they're board members!!!
Part of a recent submission. Photos courtesy of PCGS.
<< <i>I've seen other threads folks complaining they have to supply info for what, over 20K. That's a cake walk in the real world of business.
But, I know board members here have no worries as I'm sure they claim all income they receive. I mean, they're board members!!! >>
Remember $20K is the gross receipts. You can deduct the cost of the coins, insurance, alarm system, magazines, ANA and PCGS club memberships,
ebay fees, coin show travel and table fees, hotel, advertising, business meals, internet, mailing supplies, postage and insurance that you pay for "free shipping" items...
if you have a dedicated room in your home for your business activities, you can deduct a portion of your housing expense and utilities. Driving to coin shows, coin shops and
trips to the post office at 51 cents a mile...
Those who complain about how much B&M coin dealers charge and how little they pay for coins will get a TASTE of what the real costs of running a business are.
<< <i>Those who complain about how much B&M coin dealers charge and how little they pay for coins will get a TASTE of what the real costs of running a business are. >>
And before the "cost of doing business" comments start to appear, do realize there is a distinct difference between not having to pay taxes on income which covers those expenses and not having to pay those expenses at all.
<< <i><< They are just following the law. Log into your paypal account and give them your ssn# >>
Text
This is the new law that went into effect this year. It is part of the new Obamacare mandate. It is a way of obtaining money for Obamacare through on-line transactions. Many dealers have stopped selling on-line because of it and many dealers will be unpleasantly surprised when they receive the 1099-k IRS form in January. >>
No.
It is a provision of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of
2008, which was signed into law by President Bush on July 30, 2008.
<< <i>Taxes and Death. >>
Thank you, your Imminency !
<< <i>
<< <i><< They are just following the law. Log into your paypal account and give them your ssn# >>
Text
This is the new law that went into effect this year. It is part of the new Obamacare mandate. It is a way of obtaining money for Obamacare through on-line transactions. Many dealers have stopped selling on-line because of it and many dealers will be unpleasantly surprised when they receive the 1099-k IRS form in January. >>
No.
It is a provision of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of
2008, which was signed into law by President Bush on July 30, 2008. >>
No, it is part of the new Obamacare law:
PROOF:
http://www.frumforum.com/obamacares-stealth-assault-on-small-business
Here's some more information about Obamacare, who will be reported and how it will effect those that conduct more than $20,000 of sales/year:
http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/205473/obamacares-stealth-assault-on-small-business
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i><< They are just following the law. Log into your paypal account and give them your ssn# >>
Text
This is the new law that went into effect this year. It is part of the new Obamacare mandate. It is a way of obtaining money for Obamacare through on-line transactions. Many dealers have stopped selling on-line because of it and many dealers will be unpleasantly surprised when they receive the 1099-k IRS form in January. >>
No.
It is a provision of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of
2008, which was signed into law by President Bush on July 30, 2008. >>
No, it is part of the new Obamacare law:
PROOF:
http://www.frumforum.com/obamacares-stealth-assault-on-small-business
Please do NOT post FALSE information if you don't know what you're talking about. >>
Please stop being an azzhat and using agenda-driven sources rather than fact, and then chastising people when YOU are the one that is wrong..
Frank is 100% correct. It was part of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of 2008.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i><< They are just following the law. Log into your paypal account and give them your ssn# >>
Text
This is the new law that went into effect this year. It is part of the new Obamacare mandate. It is a way of obtaining money for Obamacare through on-line transactions. Many dealers have stopped selling on-line because of it and many dealers will be unpleasantly surprised when they receive the 1099-k IRS form in January. >>
No.
It is a provision of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of
2008, which was signed into law by President Bush on July 30, 2008. >>
No, it is part of the new Obamacare law:
PROOF:
http://www.frumforum.com/obamacares-stealth-assault-on-small-business
Please do NOT post FALSE information if you don't know what you're talking about. >>
Please stop being an azzhat and using agenda-driven sources rather than fact, and then chastising people when YOU are the one that is wrong..
Frank is 100% correct. It was part of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of 2008. >>
I just showed you the PROOF that this from Obamacare. Are you that brainwashed and ideological that you CAN'T even accept FACTS?
http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/205473/obamacares-stealth-assault-on-small-business
more PROOF:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2010/08/18/The-Downside-of-Government-Regulation-Business-Paralysis.aspx#page1
<< <i>I just showed you the PROOF that this from Obamacare. Are you that brainwashed and ideological that you CAN'T even accept FACTS?
http://theweek.com/bullpen/column/205473/obamacares-stealth-assault-on-small-business
more PROOF:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2010/08/18/The-Downside-of-Government-Regulation-Business-Paralysis.aspx#page1 >>
*sigh*
It's proof alright... proof that you are confused.
The 1099-MISC $600 reporting requirement referred to on that blog has since BEEN REPEALED. The 1099-K third-party payment processor reporting, which is still in place did NOT ORIGINATE UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
(As a conservative it pains me to say that, but facts are facts.)
Instead of linking to random blogs, why don't we go to something a bit more authoritative once and for all to show where the 1099-K requirement came from:
http://www.irs.gov/govt/fslg/article/0,,id=226894,00.html
Read the second paragraph carefully.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>Gentlemen, this is about U.S. Coins. I know we're passionate about politics and rules... but this has the makings of a good thread if you boys would leave your political panties in the closet. >>
Has nothing to do with politics, at least on my part. It has to do with erroneous facts being reported. The reporting requirement originated in the Housing Assistance Tax Act of 2008. Period. End of discussion.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
HR3221
Scroll down to section VII
It is a provision of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of
2008, which was signed into law by President Bush on July 30, 2008. >>
You Liberal! LOL, just kidding.
<< <i>
<< <i><< They are just following the law. Log into your paypal account and give them your ssn# >>
Text
This is the new law that went into effect this year. It is part of the new Obamacare mandate. It is a way of obtaining money for Obamacare through on-line transactions. Many dealers have stopped selling on-line because of it and many dealers will be unpleasantly surprised when they receive the 1099-k IRS form in January. >>
No.
It is a provision of the Housing Assistance Tax Act of
2008, which was signed into law by President Bush on July 30, 2008. >>
HR3221 Section VII
From CNN Money:
"Stealth IRS changes mean millions of new tax forms
The massive expansion of requirements for businesses to file 1099 tax forms that was hidden in the 2,409-page health reform bill took many by surprise when it came to light last month. But it's just one piece of a years-long legislative stealth campaign to create ways for the federal government to track down unreported income.
The result: A blizzard of new tax forms that the Internal Revenue Service will begin rolling out next year.
"It was actually something that we were following back under the Bush administration under the 2008 budget -- we started to see these kinds of rumblings about the 'tax gap' and whether or not businesses were paying their fair share," says Tom Henschke, president of the Pennsylvania-based SMC Business Councils, which was one of the first organizations to call attention to the health care amendment when it was introduced last fall. "So two administrations can claim credit for this."
The first tax-reporting expansion was buried in a different bill, the Housing Assistance Tax Act introduced by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and signed into law by President George W. Bush in July 2008. Best known for its first-time homebuyers' credit, the bill also created a new addition to the family of 1099 tax forms: the 1099-K.
The 1099 is a catch-all series of IRS documents used to report non-wage income from a variety of sources like contract work, dividends, earned interest and pension distributions. The new 1099-K aims to shine a light on a currently hard-to-track payment stream: credit cards. Starting in 2011, financial firms that process credit or debit card payments will be required to send their clients, and the IRS, an annual form documenting the year's transactions.
The rule comes with a floor to weed out the most casual retailers: The 1099-K is only required when a merchant has at least 200 payment transactions a year totaling more than US $20,000.00. But it applies to all payment processors, including Paypal, Amazon.com, and others that service very small businesses
The 1099 changes attached to the health care reform bill are another kettle of fish. These massively expand the requirements for filing the "1099-Misc" form, which companies use for recording payments to freelance workers and other individual service providers. Until now, payments to corporations have been exempt from 1099 rules, as have payments for the purchase of goods.
Starting in 2012, that changes. All business payments or purchases that exceed $600 in a calendar year will need to be accompanied by a 1099 filing. That means obtaining the taxpayer ID number of the individual or corporation you're making the payment to -- even if it's a giant retailer like Staples or Best Buy -- at the time of the transaction, or else facing IRS penalties.
In essence, the 1099-Misc is having its role changed from a form for tracking off-payroll employment to one that must accompany virtually any sizeable business transaction."
.......The 1099-k form was introduced in 2008 by the Housing Assistance Tax Act, but the on-line reporting ie PAYPAL transactions of 200 item valued at over $20,000 in 1 year was introduced by OBAMACARE. Without Obamacare, Paypal would not be requesting your SS# and/or Tax ID for these transactions.
If your ideology is soo strong, than believe whatever you want in fantasy land.
I got outcast long ago in High School for trying to defend Nixon (didn't even like him that much but he did end the draft when my draft number was "3". I would have gone to Viet Nam for sure. Oh well.... Anyone want to buy a $100 bag of 90% at spot plus 3% Pay Pal Fees ? I'll pay the taxes.
Might as well take advantage of good advertisement !
Case in point: after my parents died, I inherited all the family paperwork...and among them were the legal papers that settled my grandparents estates back in the 1970s...and guess what, back then there was even a tax bill for the surviving spouse...regardless of the size of the estate.
So for those making millions/billions and complaining about their "unreasonable burdon"...maybe they should think twice as they step over the next homeless person on their way to the country club.
The only question I have is what do I do if the IRS comes after me to pay income tax on my coin sales? On just about all the coins, I took a loss. I paid close to retail on them all. I have virtually no purchase records for any of it as it is a 10 year plus accumulation. I am not a business so I do not keep records. So what could I provide to the IRS to prove I did not make a profit and/or took a loss? I am not worried about this batch but I am considering selling out everything I have left.
I have heard that with new (current) tax rules that the taxpayer is now innocent until proven guilty by the IRS unlike the old rules where the burden of proof was on the taxpayer.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps