Are Micro O mint Morgan counterfeits still fetching premiums?
Twinturbo
Posts: 493
I was wondering if the 96, 00, 02 micro O mint counterfeit Morgans are still fetching premiums
They are .940 silver so they should be commanding a little something right?
They are .940 silver so they should be commanding a little something right?
0
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-Paul
I cherried and sold the finest known 1901-O (see the VAMWorld page for pics) for $635 on eBay.
Both sales were of raw coins to collectors trying to assemble a set of all of them.
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when referring to VW are we saying ATS or DTS (down the street)
back on topic
i made a post DTS just today on the micro O's from a pcgs article
can we call pcgs (HAH - here at home)
i've sold a few over teh past 20 months for premiums, nothing special, but enuff for a profit margin
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I've also found and sold a couple low-grade 1900-o micro-o coins.
How about a 1909-o micro-o ?
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>Hold on if they are counterfeits why would tpgs even grade them? >>
PCGS graded and slabbed them before they figured out they were all counterfeits.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Yes. Do you have some?
-Paul >>
I believe I have one. But for verification sakes, is there any die gouge or characteristic to look for?
1896 Micro-O -- 22
1900 Micro-O -- 27
1902 Micro-O -- 33
<< <i>The value of these coins varies drastically between raw coins and TPG-graded coins, since they are no longer being graded. The value also varies drastically between TPG services. PCGS coins bring much more than the others and are rarely offered for sale. As of today the total populations for each date at PCGS are:
1896 Micro-O -- 22
1900 Micro-O -- 27
1902 Micro-O -- 33 >>
My understanding is that PCGS was the only grading service that was fooled by these counterfeits. PCGS has offered to buy up these coins in their slab and some have taken them up on their offer while others wanted to keep them in their PCGS slab.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The value of these coins varies drastically between raw coins and TPG-graded coins, since they are no longer being graded. The value also varies drastically between TPG services. PCGS coins bring much more than the others and are rarely offered for sale. As of today the total populations for each date at PCGS are:
1896 Micro-O -- 22
1900 Micro-O -- 27
1902 Micro-O -- 33 >>
My understanding is that PCGS was the only grading service that was fooled by these counterfeits. >>
That is not correct. I believe I have one in an ANACS cache slab.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The value of these coins varies drastically between raw coins and TPG-graded coins, since they are no longer being graded. The value also varies drastically between TPG services. PCGS coins bring much more than the others and are rarely offered for sale. As of today the total populations for each date at PCGS are:
1896 Micro-O -- 22
1900 Micro-O -- 27
1902 Micro-O -- 33 >>
My understanding is that PCGS was the only grading service that was fooled by these counterfeits. >>
That is not correct. I believe I have one in an ANACS cache slab. >>
Are you talking about the small white slabs? Can we see a pic?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'm confused. If these are counterfeit then why are we collecting them and selling them for profit? >>
I think someone started a rumor that they were made by Dan Carr.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm confused. If these are counterfeit then why are we collecting them and selling them for profit? >>
I think someone started a rumor that they were made by Dan Carr.
Did he make them with wear also or did he put them into his own pocket for wear?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm confused. If these are counterfeit then why are we collecting them and selling them for profit? >>
I think someone started a rumor that they were made by Dan Carr.
Did he make them with wear also or did he put them into his own pocket for wear? >>
I was joking. Didn't you see the winky face? People have accused Dan Carr of producing counterfeits (for example, his 1964 Peace dollar); however, his coins have dates/mintmarks that don't exist on any current existing genuine mint products.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>These coins are so well executed that I imagine there are a few collectors that aren't fully convinced that they aren't authentic. >>
When I found a "high grade" 1902-o micro in a bag, it immediately looked funky to me. I put "high grade" in quotes because these coins, as struck, already looked like lowly AU-50s. The high-point details were lacking. With some circulation wear, they looked more convincing. In G-F grades, especially, they look really right.
I think they passed as genuine for so long simply because they were listed in the VAM book as genuine.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm confused. If these are counterfeit then why are we collecting them and selling them for profit? >>
I think someone started a rumor that they were made by Dan Carr.
Did he make them with wear also or did he put them into his own pocket for wear? >>
I put a few 1909-o micro-o coins in a bag of nickels and did the shake (but not the bake). They came out like this:
<< <i>They were all part of the original "Top 100 VAMs" list developed in the mid-1990s. When the TPGs began attributing them, they attributed all of them. It wasn't until about 10 years later that some AU specimens surfaced and the TPGs noticed the coins were fishy. Most of the coins are in the VG-VF range. The TPGs quickly confirmed that the coins were counterfeit – one theory is they were made for use in Cuban casinos in the 1950s. The attributions stopped dead in their tracks and have not resumed, although ANACS may or may not still be calling them "of unknown origin" (or something like that). PCGS made a blanket offer to buy back (at generous prices I might add) any of the coins in its holders, and I think the offer still stands. A few dozen were sent in, but the decline in the available population also increased demand by VAM specialists for the remaining coins in PCGS holders. It is now possible to put together only 22 complete 3-coin PCGS sets, but demand is far greater. I believe that their illicit origin and the embarrassment they caused the TPGs forever guarantees the coins' popularity with collectors. >>
I am working on yet another article on these. The Cuban casino theory has been largely discredited, though I will mention it.
TD