Beware Rubber Bands & Soft (Non PVC) Flips

RichR

So...my father had a few duplicate mid-grade Unc. Morgans stored in soft flips for a few years, with a rubber band around them...but these didn't seems to be the old style PVC flips.

However, when I looked at them last night, the two sides of the coins on the ends of the pile had dark purple bands around them (under the rubber banded area)...even though they were completely inside the flip and there was no physical contact with the rubber band. Does anyone know the chemistry of what went on here?

So anyway, as the stripe was quite unsightly, I quickly dipped the two coins and (unfortunately) the purple layer had evidently taken off the surface lustre...because now I have two coins with a "dull" horizontal stripe on them.

Oh well...even though I wasn't planning to ever have these particular coins slapped, I assume this would eliminate that option.

mingot

Air does permeate through plastic and those rubber bands are full of sulfur.

ctf_error_coins

Rubber bands have nasty chemicals and will discolor your coins, for sure.

OzzyAndy

Looking on a microscope level, plastic has many holes in it and will let through many chemicals. Some examples of this in action are:

Balloons, they go down slowly because air slowly leaks through the holes. Helium in a normal balloon will go down faster because He atoms are smaller than O2 and N2 molecules.

I find that meat being defrosted in a plastic bag leaks red juices to the other side of the plastic bag along with the water coming out of the meat, the plate that I put it on always has red liquid on it (for red meat anyway!)

Unfortunately the acidic gasses from the rubber band have leaked through the flip. It's now got me worried about my coins stored in SA flips, which in turn are stored in PVC 2x2 pages in an album, will have to think of an alternative.

RichR

<<It's now got me worried about my coins stored in SA flips, which in turn are stored in PVC 2x2 pages in an album, will have to think of an alternative. >>

At least if my misfortune helps save someone else coins...some good will come from it.

However, it wasn't the discoloration that surprised me the most...it was the evident impact on the coin's surface that really threw me for a loop. Maybe I'll try some alcohol...if I'm lucky it might be a gunk that can be removed as compared to having actually eaten into the surface.

Live and learn...

PerryHall

Stretch a rubber band a few times and smell it. I won't allow rubber bands anywhere near my coins.

ctf_error_coins

OP, You should change the title warning everyone about rubber bands.

RichR

<<OP, You should change the title warning everyone about rubber bands. >>

Done.

astrorat

<< <i>Air does permeate through plastic and those rubber bands are full of sulfur. >>

Yep ... plastic is porous and rubber bands are not exactly archival safe.

BillJones

Rubber ban burns on coins are usually ugly and almost impossible to remove or even lighten. It’s best to keep coins and rubber bans as far apart as possible.

Bochiman

<< <i>Oh well...even though I wasn't planning to ever have these particular coins slapped, I assume this would eliminate that option. >>




Ouch! You slap your coins?

Barry

The soft flips DO contain PVC. That's what makes them soft.

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>OP, You should change the title warning everyone about rubber bands. >>



very good idea, i stopped in just because the title
.
.

mrearlygold

Gee I remember once purchasing a lot of gem proof franklin halves from mid america coin auctions. They were shipped to me in the soft pvc flips with rubber bands TIGHTLY wrapped around them and they were marked. I complained and received a snotty letter from ron guth telling me that the marks are commonly referred to as toning. I guess that was sometime in 1984 or 85.

RichR

<<The soft flips DO contain PVC. That's what makes them soft. >>

So...I'm assuming that an otherwise UNC coin with a somewhat "dull" strip on one side would likely come back as environmental damage...or maybe UNC details?

And, of course, one of the coins in question was a pretty solid 1878 7/8 tail feathers.

RichR

<<Gee I remember once purchasing a lot of gem proof franklin halves from mid america coin auctions. They were shipped to me in the soft pvc flips with rubber bands TIGHTLY wrapped around them and they were marked. I complained and received a snotty letter from ron guth telling me that the marks are commonly referred to as toning. I guess that was sometime in 1984 or 85. >>

Now that I'm thinking about this, I suspect this might also be the reason why you sometimes see jet black proof coins from the 1950s and 1960s...badly placed rubber bands!

mrearlygold

One of these days I'm going to go thru the storage boxes, find that letter and publish it on my website

RichR

Update...Last night I took some 91% isopropol alcohol and Q-tips and carefully dabbed at the black strips on the Morgans with decent (but not perfect) results, leaving just a hint of dullness. So I'm thinking that after they retone again over time it will be even less obvious.

Thanks for the alcohol swab suggestion.

I'll try to post some photos next week.

frnklnlvr

I`ve had rubber bands do this to coins stored in the cardboard flips.

lkeigwin

Ever watch the PCGS staff at a show bundle coins accepted for grading? It's always with rubber bands. Okay...the submission form is usually between the flip and rubber band. And the coins are not kept this way for more than a few days (I assume). But it still gets to me every time I see this done.
Lance.

g048406

I recently purchased a complete set of Liberty quarters. The sender sent them in a coinmaster album, and they were all green. The seller sent me pictures of the coins, in the album, just before he mailed them to me and they had no green on them. The extreme heat here in Arizona apparently caused the PVC in the plastic to react at an accelerated pace. But, what I really learned, was that I needed to throw-out all my coinmaster albums.

As for rubberbands, not only will they leave a black stain over time, but, I have actually seen where a Silver Bust Dollar had corroded because of a lenghty contact with a rubberband.

RichR

<<As for rubberbands, not only will they leave a black stain over time, but, I have actually seen where a Silver Bust Dollar had corroded because of a lenghty contact with a rubberband. >>

Agreed...my Morgans in question are showing some lingering effects...definitely more than surface discoloration/tarnish that can simply be dipped away.

Timbuk3

Thanks for the heads-up !!!
I have a bunch of coins
in flips tied together
with rubber bands.

illini420

<< <i>Ever watch the PCGS staff at a show bundle coins accepted for grading? It's always with rubber bands. Okay...the submission form is usually between the flip and rubber band. And the coins are not kept this way for more than a few days (I assume). But it still gets to me every time I see this done.
Lance. >>




I never really liked that either. It's clear that rubber bands are bad news when it comes to coins.

I was reminded of this post when I went to the Stacks/Bowers lot viewing this weekend in Irvine. Every lot where there were 2-10 coins being sold together and every lot that included extras like an old auction tag or coin envelope, was rubber banded together. And it usually just wasn't one rubber band. There were several lots of multiple slabbed coins that included old envelopes from auctions where the envelopes were rubberbanded to each slab, then all of those rubberbanded slabs were rubberbanded together with 2 larger rubberbands. I felt like I spent half my time at lot viewing removing and putting rubberbands back around slabs!!! Not only was it a pain in neck, but I know those coins are going to be rubberbanded like that for over a month... not cool when you're talking about coins worth thousands of dollars each.

Pokermandude

Agreed, rubber bands are the devil. Not long ago I had some coins in my safe box, 3 or 4 PCGS slabs bound together by a rubber band. In less than a year the rubber band degraded and actually stuck/dug into one of the slab. I had to use a razor knife to get it all off, and the slab was scratched up a little in the process.

PonyExpress8

Rubber bands and PVC have caused significant damage to many coins over the years.

The lesson here would be to be very aware of storing your coins, raw or graded in a safe manner.

Another thought I haven't seen brought up much. Before you send your raw coins in for grading make sure there is no residual PVC residue on them. So many coins have been/are stored in soft flips and if they are graded with residual PVC still on the surfaces the coins can continue to be damaged in the holders. My past 3 coins where I have had to send them in for spot review all had this issue and problem. Two of the three suffered a downgrade or genuine designation because of the PVC damage done that wasn't visibly showing when the coins were purchased.