Seeking a focus for my collection
EricSan
Posts: 889
Hi Everyone,
I've been collecting coins for over 30 years now, mostly stuff that I've ordered directly from the mint. I have a few MS grade PCGS encapsulated coins, proof sets back to about 1956, uncirc sets back to about 1970, prestige sets, silver eagles, 1/2 oz plat eagles, and a few random gold items from the past few years.
While I enjoy what I have - its a collection without a clean focus. It also takes a fair amount of storage space. I'm wrestling with consolidating and focusing my collection, but I'm still torn on what to do. The first coins that drew my attention were large cents and early copper, so if I re-focus my collection, this is the likely path. I am wrestling with a few options:
1) sell it all and purchase a nice VF grade chain cent
2) sell the gold & plat to buy an AU bar copper
3) sell gold and buy a nice MS Fugio
4) keep what I have and do nothing
While it would be cool to have a nice chain cent, I'm concerned about having sellers remorse down the road...
I'm looking for your insights on pros and cons of my options.
Thanks,
Eric
I've been collecting coins for over 30 years now, mostly stuff that I've ordered directly from the mint. I have a few MS grade PCGS encapsulated coins, proof sets back to about 1956, uncirc sets back to about 1970, prestige sets, silver eagles, 1/2 oz plat eagles, and a few random gold items from the past few years.
While I enjoy what I have - its a collection without a clean focus. It also takes a fair amount of storage space. I'm wrestling with consolidating and focusing my collection, but I'm still torn on what to do. The first coins that drew my attention were large cents and early copper, so if I re-focus my collection, this is the likely path. I am wrestling with a few options:
1) sell it all and purchase a nice VF grade chain cent
2) sell the gold & plat to buy an AU bar copper
3) sell gold and buy a nice MS Fugio
4) keep what I have and do nothing
While it would be cool to have a nice chain cent, I'm concerned about having sellers remorse down the road...
I'm looking for your insights on pros and cons of my options.
Thanks,
Eric
EAC member since 2011, one third of the way through my 1793 large cent type set
0
Comments
Keep an eye out for a nice large cent. Perhaps you can find something interesting that isn't so expensive that you have to trade everything for one coin...
Note that I did not say what grade. Half of the fun of collecting is in the search for the right coin. Don't focus so much on a specific grade. Instead, take your time and search for one that makes you smile when you look at it. Eye appeal, color, planchet quality, and strike - in that order - are the most important considerations for early copper in my opinion.
A nice chain cent can be the centerpiece around which you rebuild your collection.
I sold almost every coin I had once to buy a truly great coin. It was a thrill and I've never regretted it. Now my collection is built around that piece and I love it even more today than when I first acquired it.
A few years ago I had the same thoughts you are having now. I sold most all my US mint sets and silver eagles. They were taking up too much space, I was not looking at them, I did not enjoy them. I bought an 1877 Indian cent with the money. I have not regretted the change.
If you like early copper, but have a post modern budget, take a look at old English copper and Conder tokens.
Take something that will capture your interest and is within your budget and work on it. Sell a coin
or two from time to time so you learn the market. Don't get in a hurry especially at first.
Why not do a lower grade, VG-F 1793 set with all 3 cent types and upgrade later when you can?
1: is the set affordable in my range in the range I want to collect?
2: is their multiple outlets for me to engage in buying and resealing of the coins as I build?
3: Is it an non-liquid niche where retail is high and then I am stuck with the coin because the few dealers are the market?
4: is it completable and if it isn't would that drive me nuts?
5: Does it tie into any groups or clubs to further my enjoyment with like minded collectors.
6: Are they rare and or popular? It's never fun always missing out on coins or being a constant underbidder.
7: Is there lots to read on the series.
One of my babies, Good luck to you finding yours
Join us...
Ron
That, is the cold hard reality of 'seeking a focus'.
Keep 70 percent of what you have, sell of some of what interests you in the least (but hopefully others are still interested in) and use part of the money for 'the new interest'
trying to hook another collector on a new interest is difficult. Its all a personal love affair after all, and you need to look at the options. Ive found paging through auction catalogs can create a new interest. Reading the posts on this forum from various collectors showing off their holdings....that can create an interest.
....and, there is some truth to the oft told tale that all serious collectors eventually end up in old copper. there is a unique majesty in these old pieces.....and a Chain Cent is near to the top of the food chain there.
One coin does not make a satisfied collector....its like that first sensation when an illegal drug reaches the brain cells, the first trigger it reaches is the one that says "get more of this stuff".
............but to change focus youve got to swallow that bitter pill I first mentioned. Id do that slow.
If you do NOT have a copy of walter breens Encyclopedia you NEED at this point to get one. Especially if you are thinking of old copper, it is the best reference (yeah yeah yeah..I know>>>
One point crypto made, and a very valid point that hits me hard with my esoteric collecting, is that you will want to have lots of reading material on your targeted series.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Still buying early copper coins is a real minefield. Finding the type of Chain Cent that you want is not as easy as you might think. Chances are you will have to go to one of the leading copper dealers (EAC - Early American Coppers club member) to find it, and the price will higher than you expect.
Here is the Chain Cent from my type set. I bought at a time when this was the best I could afford. It's got the scratch on the obverse, but it still made it into a VF holder. My grade is Fine-12. Other peices I've seen in VF holders had defects like this also. This is an example of periods variety, S-4.
<< <i>Why not do a lower grade, VG-F 1793 set with all 3 cent types and upgrade later when you can? >>
A couple of comments. First I think that you might be shocked by the appearance of 1793 cents in the usual VG-F grade. Coins graded VF, as you can see from Chain Cent, are not that outstanding.
Second I would characterize the 1793 Liberty Cap cent has an “ultra bear” to find nice or really in any condition. It’s a coin that I’ve never considered purchasing because I know from the get-go just how hard it is to find one. I’ve got two really nice Liberty Cap cents in Mint State holders, a 1794 and a 1795. For the price I paid for both of these combined I’d be hard pressed get a 1793 Cap Cent in VF. And to put the price in context, you could buy nicely equipped Cadillac CTS for the cost of these two.
The Chain Cent would be very cool, but you might consider a small collection of nice Large Cents instead. When I decided to focus on nice quality Large Cents, it didn't get interesting until I had sprung for about my 4th or 5th nice specimen. Now, every one that I add makes the accumulation more fun. It's fun to see a nice set of coins taking shape, and it's fun to get them out and look them over.
If I had saved and only bought the Chain Cent, I'm not sure how much more interesting it would've been with just a single coin. Probably not as interesting. I'm just sayin'.
I knew it would happen.
Myqqy: yes, one interesting place for me would be to "start over" with one really nice "mega coin." There are lots of great large cents out there that can be had in good quality for relatively reasonable prices, so starting with something "significant" would give an anchor point from which I could further expand over the coming years.
Carl: I do have a number of duplicates (I've been buying two proof & unc sets each year for a quite a while now - though I'm not sure why...) and things of lesser interest that I could sell. Most of these are proof sets and recent silver commems.
MidLifeCrisis: Thanks for the prioritization of quality factors: "Eye appeal, color, planchet quality, and strike - in that order" Its always interesting to see how other people make decisions. I've been looking at a large number of large cents online recently and have seen many with very little wear, but look "bleached" or are severely pitted/corroded. While the detail level is somewhat high, these coins just don't hold any interest for me. Then there is always the interest of factor of things such as "consider how many loaves of bread, etc were purchased with this well worn coin over the decades..." I've been looking for a resource that details the purchasing power of lower denomination coins from the late 1700's, but I still haven't found anything. Given the interest in the spending history of the coin though, I tend to prefer coins that aren't worn too smooth and that still have nice details so the coin's identity is still readily apparent upon first glance. Perhaps this is part of my interest in proof sets and mint sets - coupled with the fact that they are so easy to find. This makes a chain cent very expensive, though...
g048406: Agreed: Its unlikely that I would look for anything that wasn't looked at the by top 3 TPG's. While this means I may "miss" a potential bargain, its also a good insurance policy to avoid going down an unrecoverable path.
Batman: The storage space is what floored me most recently. Measured in terms of cubic feet, its quite a lot. I think this is part of the reason that I don't look at them as much as I otherwise might. Its a project to take them out, find what I want, etc.
redtiger: Interesting option - I've never considered old English copper and Conder tokens. I'm not even sure what a Conder token is right now - I'll have to look them up.
cladking: I think you might be right that I've answered my own question. Part of the value of this conversation is to explore options and pros/cons. Sometimes there is value in "reassurance" for lack of a better word. Thank you.
GoldClause: I have had similar thoughts. What do I do after I've found a chain cent that I like? I have two thoughts on this, which are really similar: Use the chain cent as an anchor point for a large cent type set of five nicer-grade coins, or see if I can make a 1793 large cent type cent with the three varieties. Either would be longer-term goals...
crypto: Cool trade dollar! What a great set of questions, too! Is what I am looking for affordable? Yes, if done slowly and deliberately - which makes things more fun by adding time to learn more, see more, etc. I'm not sure if there are all that many outlets, especially locally. Most of my purchases have been from the mint or from ebay - probably for the convenience factor. I presume that looking for a chain cent will require traveling to a few coin shows - something I've never done before but would be fun. Another part of the appeal of a more desirable coin series/grade is that I suspect it would be a relatively "easy" sell should the need arise down the road. Completable? I think so. Then again, for all of the coins I have now, I only have 2 sets that I would call complete: 1992-1998 silver proof sets and silver premiere proof sets ;-) Does a 1/4 oz unc gold buffalo count as a completed set?!? Everything else has a hole or two in it somewhere. So, no, I don't think it would drive me nuts to not have "everything"... I've never been concerned with "like minded" collectors - my interest in this hobby has never been "shared" with anyone to help sustain it. Rare and popular? seems that way to me. I'm surprised at the increases in prices over the past 5 years while lots of stuff I have has taken up lots of room and hasn't really changed in value. And finally, there seems to be quite a bit to read about chain cents and large cents in general.
Frank: Interesting point about having all of my eggs in one basket. Perhaps this is the appeal of expanding in the future to a large cent type set or a 1973 type set... I've lost some money on two or three of my coins (as much as 80% as PR70 populations increase), but overall I have more value than I originally put into the set. So your point about diversifying strikes a chord...
Realone: I hadn't really thought about everything I have as being replaceable since its all modern stuff, but I think you are right. There are active markets for everything that I currently have, so its all obtainable again...
LotsoLuck: Yep, that's part of my problem - too many choices ;-) This led me back to thinking about when I first became interested in coins as a kid. It started when I was in 5th or 6th grade and I bought a "black book" price guide from the Scholastic book club. I was drawn to cents and was fascinated by the ones that were worth so much like the 1877 or 1909. The first coin I purchased from a store in the mall is an 1832 large cent that has a home in my Dansco Type book right now (not my avatar). I paid $10 for it and have loved it ever since. Its probably a VF, but with a large ding in the backside. It has lots of detail but is damaged so it was affordable when I was a kid. Looking back at my early "mall coin store" purchased now, I have to laugh. They all have problems of one sort or another and in some way have helped me learn and grow as a collector. Thus, I think cents (and especially large cents) are the area of greatest interest to me.
Melvin: This is exactly what I've been thinking concerning focus. Most of what I have is because it was "easy" to do. Go the mint's web site, buy everything that is for sale that year, stash it away, and now I have a large and mostly random collection of stuff. Some of it has value, some of it does not. Some of it I find interesting, some of it I don't... I've been reading the boards here for a few years and see that nearly everyone has some theme for their collection. This made me think that perhaps I would be more engaged with a collection that had some focus to it.
ambro: Great points! Part of what is making me go slowly is the thought that I won't want anything to do with coins once I sell them all. I've thought about selling off the "small stuff" and holding the items with higher value for now. This would provide some working money and reduce the "set clutter" quite a bit. I understand what you say with "one coin does not make a satisfied collector" which is why I was thinking of working a high-grade large cent type set with the chain cent as a center piece. Another thought was to still focus on the chain cent and then work on completing my Dansco 7070 and setting some grade/price constraints as I move back through the years: $100 max per coin for this date/series range, $300 max for the next older series, etc. Even this would still allow some diversity, but would greatly focus my efforts. Part of what I like about the older coins is the consideration of what were they used for. For instance, I have a nice AU half eagle from 1899 and I wonder just how far that $10 went toward feeding the family, paying rent, etc. While my current proofs and uncs have some interest for me, they were never "used" for anything, thus there really isn't that much history there... Walter Breen's book will be my next purchase - I've already been thinking this myself. Where would I find an auction catalog? Are these available as PDF downloads? Or do I need to be somehow affiliated with Stacks, Heritage, etc?
Thanks to everyone! I really appreciate your input. Lets keep the conversation moving along...
<< <i>And to put the price in context, you could buy nicely equipped Cadillac CTS for the cost of these two.
>>
Which engine? I used to drive a CTS-V before kids took all the fight out of me and I consigned my life to a Saab Wagon
<< <i>
<< <i>And to put the price in context, you could buy nicely equipped Cadillac CTS for the cost of these two.
>>
Which engine? I used to drive a CTS-V before kids took all the fight out of me and I consigned my life to a Saab Wagon
Lucky you! I'd like to try the CTS-V sometime, but it was not in the cards this time. You can't buy a CST-V for the price of these two. We bought the top of the line CTS with the 3.6 V-6 engine for my wife. It's a nice little car with lots of bells and whistles, and it's fun to drive. We got a good deal on an end of the model year sale.
The CTS-V that I saw in the showroom had a sticker price of something like $78K which included a $2,500 “gas guzzler” tax.
I remember when I first saw your chain cent - somehow I was under the impression that it was a family piece rather than a purchase. I have looked at a few places online and finding something that I consider "nice" is surprisingly hard and expensive. This is what made me think about colonial coinage. I have visited the EAC website and think its worth the $40 or so they charge to receive their newsletter as a way of starting to learn more.
jmski52: I was wondering if this thread would attract your attention when I mentioned the plats... This is probably the series that I have that I like the most with the changing designs and the ultra-low mintages. If I sold these, I'd probably keep the W-uncs as a three-year sub set. I have a few holes in my overall plat set that I could fill by selling my duplicates. The plats and gold probably represent about 70% of the value of my collection at this point.
oops ... I just realized I don't have a picture of that piece ... sorry.
I was a type collector anyway but had no focus whatsoever.
Just start filling holes with what I had and the rest comes naturally.
Going for a certain look or grade, etc...
-Mark
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Say, your 1812 Large Cent Icon would be a great coin to base the rest of a Large Cent collection upon! If you still have that coin, you're already on your way! It's a beauty, especially considering the year.
Why not do this?
And this?
Ok, I am just teasing. (But you could!)
I knew it would happen.
I feel like I'm still waffling on how to focus things. I spent some time last night looking up various coins that would be needed to complete a high-grade type set - turns out that it's ballpark the same dollar investment for a completed type set as it would be for a chain cent that I would be happy with. Part of me is still feeling a little reluctant to sell everything I've gathered over the years in a short period of time so maybe a type set is a better path. I can start by selling duplicates and things that don't hold my interest as much as many have suggested. This path would let me move forward more deliberately and thoughtfully than just trying to dump everything so quickly... Sometimes too many options are a nuisance...
PS: I think VF is accurate for your Chain cent as the obverse on your coin is incredibly strong for the type. I've seen VF's where you could barely make out the portrait.
TwoSides2aCoin & g048406 : The notion of selling everything is relatively new to me. Perhaps it just needs some time to sink in and for me to feel comfortable with it. Bill's coins are certainly great and I remember the feeling of "wow!" when I first saw his chain cent! I think it would be really cool to have one of the very first coins ever produced by the US mint.
At this point, I think I am contemplating two options: 1) sell all and go for an eye catching chain cent or 2) sell all but the plats and begin working on a high grade type set. Of course, I could always do #1 and then work on #2, but it would take a much longer time to complete with all of my coin collecting money tied up in a single coin...
I've spent the last three nights creating a complete inventory of my collection and I have to say that I am a bit disappointed by the cash value I have put in and so much of it will never appreciate (modern proof & unc sets, modern commems). This is part of the appeal of a nice chain cent - a key coin and seemingly always in demand. The price run-up over the years is tremendous. My first coin prices "black book" is from 1981 - at those prices, I wish I had bought a pocket full of them...
Thanks for all of the continued input. It's really helping to give me some perspective!
Good luck on the chain cent.
I would encourage you to keep the 7070 at the top of your mind. This is a fun set, and the one that I have enjoyed putting together.
Take a look at some of the other members 7070 images, they will definitely get your blood flowing.
Have fun!
I knew it would happen.
I haven't heard of Doug Bird or Mr. Terranova before. I'll poke around and see what I can find. I just subscribed over at EAC, so I suppose that will provide some additional references.
Its a VF25 over at heritage...
<< <i>I vote for #4 do nothing.
If you like early copper, but have a post modern budget, take a look at old English copper and Conder tokens. >>
Not only that, but collecting antebellum American and Civil War half cent and cent tokens can be challenging and, in grades of Fine or so, are not expensive.
If you go to the grayside, early Canadian tokens (pre-1858) offer about a bazillion varieties and are still affordable for the most part.
Thanks!
Eric