How many coins would you miss, if you only considered those that have been Äpproved"?
TahoeDale
Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
A recent thread has been talking about the pros and cons of buying only certified coins that have
the green sticker. While that is fine for some, I can guarantee that those who let that control their
buying habits will never own some great coins.
Over the years, while preferring PCGS graded coins in all series, I have purchased coins in NGC, ICG, and ANACS
holders. Most of the buys have been at prices substantially less than what a PC coin of the same grade would have cost.
A few have crossed at grade, but most were downgraded by PC 1 to 2 points. None had any stickers or plusses, as
it occured before those procedures were available.
No coins in my collection were bought because of a sticker. I believe I would rather have the lower cost, and be able to buy any coin I liked.
Look at it this way:
An NGC 66 CBH might be priced, reasonably at about PC money. Let's assume it would never be approved by JA as a 66, but that it would as a PC 65.
Now, who wants this coin at the same ( or close to) price-- a PC 65 with a sticker, or a +, or NGC 66?
Those that buy only fully priced coins( PC with a sticker) are paying full retail, in a market priced setting. Okay, if you do not have any experience.
Caveat- Gold may be an exception, but only because of the long standing problem with surface alteration.
the green sticker. While that is fine for some, I can guarantee that those who let that control their
buying habits will never own some great coins.
Over the years, while preferring PCGS graded coins in all series, I have purchased coins in NGC, ICG, and ANACS
holders. Most of the buys have been at prices substantially less than what a PC coin of the same grade would have cost.
A few have crossed at grade, but most were downgraded by PC 1 to 2 points. None had any stickers or plusses, as
it occured before those procedures were available.
No coins in my collection were bought because of a sticker. I believe I would rather have the lower cost, and be able to buy any coin I liked.
Look at it this way:
An NGC 66 CBH might be priced, reasonably at about PC money. Let's assume it would never be approved by JA as a 66, but that it would as a PC 65.
Now, who wants this coin at the same ( or close to) price-- a PC 65 with a sticker, or a +, or NGC 66?
Those that buy only fully priced coins( PC with a sticker) are paying full retail, in a market priced setting. Okay, if you do not have any experience.
Caveat- Gold may be an exception, but only because of the long standing problem with surface alteration.
TahoeDale
0
Comments
Purchased 90% of my collection raw and submitted them myself to PCGS. I never submitted any coins to CAC yet but am tempted to. I think I own one CAC coin that I purchased that way.
<< <i>Most of the buys have been at prices substantially less than what a PC coin of the same grade would have cost.
A few have crossed at grade, but most were downgraded by PC 1 to 2 points. >>
One or two points can mean a ton of money. If the price you paid was commensurate with the grade the coin eventually garnered at PCGS you survived unscathed. If not you got skinned, and you know coins better than most.
CG
I will probably pass on many Lib $2.50's this week from a collection Heritage is selling because they are not CAC approved. I am leery of purchasing the higher end coins for my collection without the sticker. From my own experience I know that Heritage encourages gold consigners to submit to CAC. Perhaps this set was submitted - perhaps not.
Since I can travel to Pittsburgh this week I may change my mind when I can see those coins in hand.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Could not care less!
...this is an interesting thread. unfortunately it probably won't go far because of the magic letters that rhyme with back.
coin has a "green" sticker. I know some are, as a result
I had my set of Barbers sent to JA's company for certification.
One of the most surprising turn of events was that my 1892-O
Micro O Half Dollar PCGS 63 [ ex: Shireman Collection ] which I
had purchased with a "green" sticker was resubmitted to PCGS Secure
for a possible upgrade. It was not upgraded, however, it was not
"green" stickered when resubmitted [$25 fee for rarities ] prior to the
auction of my set.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<< <i>...this is an interesting thread. unfortunately it probably won't go far because of the magic letters that rhyme with back.
Or the magic words that rhyme with doof.
My question is how many years will it take until it's a rarity to see a nice coin without a CAC sticker?
you were selling a coin, but if the same coin was going to stay in my collection for 30 years, there is almost
no point in getting additional approval. If the coin is raw, as most of mine are, and I am happy with it, then
it will stay raw. If it is already in a holder, and again, I am happy with it, why play the sticker game?
All of this changes if I decide to sell a few pieces, either on a wholesale level or at an auction. At this point
you want to have every possible advantage, which includes PCGS certification and a CAC sticker. Many
potential buyers do not currently possess my grading skills, and are much more comfortable with backup.
<< <i>...
An NGC 66 CBH might be priced, reasonably at about PC money. Let's assume it would never be approved by JA as a 66, but that it would as a PC 65.
Now, who wants this coin at the same ( or close to) price-- a PC 65 with a sticker, or a +, or NGC 66?
Those that buy only fully priced coins( PC with a sticker) are paying full retail, in a market priced setting. Okay, if you do not have any experience.
... >>
I would rather have the PCGS/CAC 65 holdered Bust series coin for the same price as the NGC 66. This would save me the time and expense to submit the NGC coin to PCGS for crossover, and assure me that the coin would cross to PCGS at least as a 65. Mind you, I said Bust series coins. Other series may well not be considered the same, like the Classic Commemoratives.
<< <i>Well as I right now do not own a single CAC'd coin in my core collection... I guess if just chasing approved examples, I'd now own nothing
Me too.
It's like having an amp that goes to "11."
If I only purchased stickered coins, I would have missed out on some great purchases, including my favorite ANA and pre-ANA newps.
Those who only buy CAC-approved coins would have missed out on all three.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Do I care about the stickers? Not very much, no.
Would it make a difference to me in choosing one coin over another? Maybe a tiny bit.
Would I ever submit a coin to CAC? Almost certainly not. (Never say never, but...)
I do not think I am missing anything by not buying an non stickered coin. Usually there is a good reason JA and crew did not bean something.
We all want believe we are smart, but these guys like JA do know far more than most of us here ever will.
"I've never seen a green bean sticker in person" (only in pictures)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Funny how none of the pile of top graded 1807 CBH'S we looked through at ANA wore a bean.
Neat coins RYK!
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>I'll see your I've never owned a green bean-stickered coin. and raise you a
"I've never seen a green bean sticker in person" (only in pictures) >>
Yeah, me too, actually.
You pays your money, you takes your chances. If you're willing to lose big in order to win big then you can stay in the game. If you want to cut out those losers by throwing out some winners with the bathwater, then I can certainly understand and support that decision too.
<< <i>Some of the best coins I've ever owned wouldn't sticker ... because they were graded too high in the holder they were in .... but when put in the correct holder and stickered were still worth what I paid for them. On the flip side, some of the biggest losers I've ever been exposed to wouldn't sticker ... because they had been messed with in such a manner that I didn't recognize it.
You pays your money, you takes your chances. If you're willing to lose big in order to win big then you can stay in the game. If you want to cut out those losers by throwing out some winners with the bathwater, then I can certainly understand and support that decision too. >>
Bruce,You are the man.
He did that recently for 2 real big coins-- The 1797 half in 66, and 1794 dollar in 64( both NGC). And they were approved at the lower grade.
And I am sure he made money, as he always does.
But this topic tries to warn collectors of the possible problem of buying only coins that already have an approval from above. And
what you might miss if that is your criteria. Bruce would have never owned the above 2 coins, if he made that a prerequisite.
Only a very small number of coins, and for sure, better coins have seen the green bean. And the vast number of truly rare coins
are among the unapproved, for one reason or another. I sinecerely believe one needs to consider the coin, holder, grade and not
pass over any coin, til you have looked closely, with expert help if necessary, with or without a 3rd party approval.
<< <i>"How many coins would you miss, if you only considered those that have been Äpproved"? >>
Very few. I don't buy 5 figure coins. In fact, I've never spent over $3K on a single piece. My average purchase is about $300 so CAC is not a huge thing but I like it.
I am guessing there is a huge divide between folks buying coins under $1,000 and those buying coins far past that mark, when it comes to the desire for an extra sticker or expert opinion... i just worry about a point in the future when a coin needs a holder, a sticker, a gold star, an extra upc symbol, a thumbs up sticker, etc before people will feel comfortable buying...