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1990 Topps Baseball Errors & Variations

saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
A lot of discussion for errors and variations discovered in 1990 Topps Baseball occurs in the main thread for the Frank Thomas NNOF/Blackless error thread.

Thought I'd break out that discussion as it is quite difficult to dig through the amount of info on the NNOFs to find other 1990 Topps error/variation information.



Like any thoughts on the following as a possible legitimate variation:

image

The areas of white are devoid of color and seem to be the paperstock (top). Typical Larry sheets back is the bottom example.


image

Card #789 John Wathan MGR

In the same vein as the Jeff King back variation. Though this shows some white.
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Comments

  • I agree that this is the same issue that caused the Jeff King error, which is a printing-flaw rather than an entire design change, where the yellow ink overran the areas of exposed cardstock. Why this is cataloged as a "true" error is beyond me, especially considering how only 1 or 2 examples have shown up.

    That said, it's a great find and a probably worth something decent to someone in-the-know of the Jeff King error.

    EDIT:

    King is from a different sheet, btw. And as for the Larry Sheets cardstock issue, I have noticed the cardboard color difference before and it's definitely very noticeable in person.
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • Here is my "ongoing checklist" for 1990 Topps variations:



    1990 Topps Errors and Variations Ongoing Checklist
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    Another variation like the Larry Sheets, interestingly Randy Milligan like Sheets is an Oriole from the "B" sheet.

    image
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  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    Same "B" sheet but not an Oriole
    image
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  • RookieWaxRookieWax Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭
    Dave, those are interesting variations. Here are a few I have with ink issues similar to your yellow ink variations, but with the black ink. It freakishly turned Marvell Wynne into Marveli Wynne.

    By the way, these were pulled from the same case as my NNOF Thomas and related cards. I love going through that case every now and then to see what else I might discover.

    image


  • << <i>Dave, those are interesting variations. Here are a few I have with ink issues similar to your yellow ink variations, but with the black ink. It freakishly turned Marvell Wynne into Marveli Wynne.

    By the way, these were pulled from the same case as my NNOF Thomas and related cards. I love going through that case every now and then to see what else I might discover.

    >>



    I feel the same way about the green (Holiday?) factory sets. Every one I open seems to have some type of unusual printing issue that affects one sheet's subjects.
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • One set I opened recently had this odd printing issue, every card on this sheet, which included Griffey, Maddux, Dawson, Grace, had an issue where not only were the plates misaligned, but the black appeared to have struck twice. Some were more dramatic than others but it did affect that whole sheet.

    image
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    I have one of the King card and agree it is just a print defect, but so is the Herrer and the Bakep and probably to black star Campos.
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al


  • << <i>I have one of the King card and agree it is just a print defect, but so is the Herrer and the Bakep and probably to black star Campos. >>



    Agreed.

    However, several of those examples have surfaced. I think you may be the only known collector holding a copy of the King variation. Other similar short-run print-errors don't get added to the catalogs, making the King addition questionable.
    My Error & Variation Blog

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  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    I did not start looking for the King until I read about it and then saw it listed in the SCD Catalog, so there have to be a few of them out there. Back oddities on newer cards are hard to find for now that there are so few shops/shows

    Another combination error/variation/oddity that is tough to find for the same reason the is 3d version the 1959 Haywood Sullivan. Although it is an older issue, the 3d version is a fairly recent find and trying to even explain to a seller what you are looking for is not easy ( same with the King).. I think most folks looking at the King back would not give it a 2nd thought...only obsessive people like us image
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al


  • << <i>I did not start looking for the King until I read about it and then saw it listed in the SCD Catalog, so there have to be a few of them out there. Back oddities on newer cards are hard to find for now that there are so few shops/shows

    Another combination error/variation/oddity that is tough to find for the same reason the is 3d version the 1959 Haywood Sullivan. Although it is an older issue, the 3d version is a fairly recent find and trying to even explain to a seller what you are looking for is not easy ( same with the King).. I think most folks looking at the King back would not give it a 2nd thought...only obsessive people like us image >>



    Is that the circle around the 'c' in the copyright variation? I think I saw that recently. I have a copy of one of the types but I don't remember which.
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    The circle or no circle around the c has been recognized for some time, but the 3d version involves a period or no period after the A in USA...minor print defect, but was the subject of an SCD article , then made the book, and maybe ( not sure) the Registry. The first two are not too hard but the 3d is very tough
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al


  • << <i>The circle or no circle around the c has been recognized for some time, but the 3d version involves a period or no period after the A in USA...minor print defect, but was the subject of an SCD article , then made the book, and maybe ( not sure) the Registry. The first two are not too hard but the 3d is very tough >>



    Just checked, my copy has the incomplete circle around 'c' and the period after U.S.A.
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭
    If anyone, anyone out there has a Jeff King missing yellow on back ., please PM me....


    I have been looking for this since 1991 ..... the last 5 years I have really been looking., and can't find it anywhere...


    thx

    rich
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    Buying:
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”


  • << <i>If anyone, anyone out there has a Jeff King missing yellow on back ., please PM me....


    I have been looking for this since 1991 ..... the last 5 years I have really been looking., and can't find it anywhere...


    thx

    rich
    [email protected] >>



    Since 1991?
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭
    I tried off and on for the Jeff King and it's harder to find that any card except the 1980 topps Greg Pryor "no name"....

    I think the 1980 topps Pryor is in more collections because of its age and I didn't start collecting until the end of 1986 ....

    but the Jeff King I have looked for since I first opened 90 topps packs even though I really wasn't sure I was looking for....


    Now I have a scan of it.....I know it exists, and i hunt for it more than ever.. .........

    just no results......

    Buying:
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    Moved over this image of the Jeff King from the other thread (from Richtree)

    image
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
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  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Dave, those are interesting variations. Here are a few I have with ink issues similar to your yellow ink variations, but with the black ink. It freakishly turned Marvell Wynne into Marveli Wynne.

    By the way, these were pulled from the same case as my NNOF Thomas and related cards. I love going through that case every now and then to see what else I might discover.

    image >>



    After a complete review of my 1990 Topps I found other cars that exhibit the same smearing as the ones posted above. The cards were very uncommon and all occurred on the Green "E" sheet:

    463 Drew Hall
    451 Mark Lemke
    441 Bob Kipper
    292 Jim Gott
    284 Mark Gardner
    238 Felix Jose
    184 Danny Cox
    169 Ken Dotson
    156 Ken Patterson

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  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    image

    Magic Doug Jones Card:

    Depending on the sharpness Doug Jones' mesh top reveals either more or less of his indians T-Shirt. No word on whether a full frontal pic exists.
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
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  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    There is a Frank Thomas NNOF ending today on Ebay that appears to be a variation on that famous variation, in that it has the same sort of "no-white" back that the Larry Sheets, Randy Milligan, et al have in this thread.

    NNOF with cardboard color back
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  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    Edgar Martinez three ways:

    No spot on elbow, light spot, dark pink spot

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  • Here are several similar variations from the '89 Topps set.
    All of these came from the C* sheet, and appear to be extremely scarce.

    Doc Gooden:

    image

    Roger Clemens:

    image

    Lee Smith:

    image

    Kevin Bass:

    image

    Rafael Ramirez:

    image

    Tim Birtsas:

    image


  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    Discovered today a pretty clear variation for #495 Lee Smith.

    White triangle in"S" in Red Sox

    and corrected (triangle airbrushed in)

    Kind of cool as this set is essentially devoid of corrected variations such as this.

    image
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
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  • RookieWaxRookieWax Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭
    You mean I will need to go through my error case AGAIN? LOL
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭
    Turned this up today.

    Another "blackless" card from 1990 Topps. First one I have seen not from the "orange" sheet.

    Starting upper left - through MARINERS, across and face then diagonally through right hand border. Also slight area in upper right corner breaking border.

    image
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
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  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A little more than your average fisheye, I dub thee Eye of Ra

    image
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,104 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can someone explain to me how cards with relatively minor print defects on the back get listed as variations, but a card with a completely different player on the revers does not?

    I have two 1974 Harmon Killebrew cards with Ralph Garr's information on the back. I did a little research and it seems that in '74 there must have been a printing error as there were several different 1974 "wrongbacks" on ebay.

    PSA will not grade them despite my repeated requests.
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Can someone explain to me how cards with relatively minor print defects on the back get listed as variations, but a card with a completely different player on the revers does not?

    I have two 1974 Harmon Killebrew cards with Ralph Garr's information on the back. I did a little research and it seems that in '74 there must have been a printing error as there were several different 1974 "wrongbacks" on ebay.

    PSA will not grade them despite my repeated requests. >>


    There aren't many print defects that will get listed as variations in Beckett or the Standard Catalog either, though there are many who collect them. I wish PSA would grade wrong backs/blank backs/blank fronts as well as the commonly collected print defects, but they choose not to. They won't even grade quite a few of the proof cards I have in my Larkin collection.
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    The 58 Herrer, the 57 Bakep, the 59
    Sullivans, the 52 Campos black star, partial black star and missing front border, the 82 Blackless and the 61 Fairly are all print defects and all are listed in Catalogs and or the Registry. I would limit the term variation to cards intentionally changed by the manufacturer for some reason, but many a print defect has made the cut

    Is the 90 Thomas no name and related progeny a variation or a print defect ? image
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭
    Its just like the Angles team leaders "Pink Slash" variation. After talking to Jackson and some others with knowledge I searched forever to find some evidence of this rarity. I finally find a couple, and no one even knows it exists.



    image[/URL]
    Buying:
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The 58 Herrer, the 57 Bakep, the 59
    Sullivans, the 52 Campos black star, partial black star and missing front border, the 82 Blackless and the 61 Fairly are all print defects and all are listed in Catalogs and or the Registry. I would limit the term variation to cards intentionally changed by the manufacturer for some reason, but many a print defect has made the cut

    Is the 90 Thomas no name and related progeny a variation or a print defect ? image >>


    I'm not saying that there aren't quite a few PDs that are recognized variations, only that there are way more that aren't listed but maintain collectible value as well.

    The NNOF Thomas is nothing more than a short run print defect.
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Its just like the Angles team leaders "Pink Slash" variation. After talking to Jackson and some others with knowledge I searched forever to find some evidence of this rarity. I finally find a couple, and no one even knows it exists. >>


    Agreed, outside of his site, I've never seen another reference to it.
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    Agree with you on Thomas, Larkin. What about the green tints from 62 which I think are now recognized in the Registry and have long been mentioned in SCD. The different poses are obviously variations, but what about the green tints where the same photo is involved. Topps did not really intend a change but they did intend a different printer/printing process. Defect or variation. ?

    Another example would be the 63 DPs that George Vrechek recently wrote about in SCD. There are a couple of back differences that likely amount to true variations but for the most part the differences are subtle cropping differences on the front. The 56 set has similar cropping differences on DP cards. The 3 1952 DPs of Mantle, Thompson and Robinson also have cropping differences that are now recognized in SCD.

    Cropping differences also exist on virtually every or all Topps checklist from the 60s and early 70s. Why some get recognized and not others seems to be a function of either hobby history and lore, or c persistence by current collectors ( see Joe Banzai's 67 Punch Out thread on the graded forum here).

    There are so many thousands of wrong and blank backs or fronts, that are all randomly different, I do not see how PSA or anyone else could effectively categorize them. And it is often difficult to distinguish between blank back proofs and blank back errors, unless something like the blank backed 84 Encased cards is involved which clearly show the product was a proof. The 67 Maris as a Yankee or 77 Jackson as an Oriole would be other examples of clear proofs. Topps Vault designations would be another
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Agree with you on Thomas, Larkin. What about the green tints from 62 which I think are now recognized in the Registry and have long been mentioned in SCD. The different poses are obviously variations, but what about the green tints where the same photo is involved. Topps did not really intend a change but they did intend a different printer/printing process. Defect or variation. ? >>



    They're pretty much the same as the Thomas or the 1980 no/yellow names, just missing magenta instead of black. I would want one of each if trying to complete a Master set, but they shouldn't be included as part of a Base set. In short a consistent print defect of enough quantity to become a recognized variation.



    << <i>Another example would be the 63 DPs that George Vrechek recently wrote about in SCD. There are a couple of back differences that likely amount to true variations but for the most part the differences are subtle cropping differences on the front. The 56 set has similar cropping differences on DP cards. The 3 1952 DPs of Mantle, Thompson and Robinson also have cropping differences that are now recognized in SCD.

    Cropping differences also exist on virtually every or all Topps checklist from the 60s and early 70s. Why some get recognized and not others seems to be a function of either hobby history and lore, or c persistence by current collectors ( see Joe Banzai's 67 Punch Out thread on the graded forum here). >>



    Cropping differences should always be a recognized variation. There are quite a few in 89 Topps and 92 Bowman Foils as well that go unknown to most collectors.



    << <i>There are so many thousands of wrong and blank backs or fronts, that are all randomly different, I do not see how PSA or anyone else could effectively categorize them. And it is often difficult to distinguish between blank back proofs and blank back errors, unless something like the blank backed 84 Encased cards is involved which clearly show the product was a proof. The 67 Maris as a Yankee or 77 Jackson as an Oriole would be other examples of clear proofs. Topps Vault designations would be another >>


    I don't think they even need to categorize them, just grade and notate on the flip (Blank Back, Blank Front, Wrong Back, etc.) as they're being paid to do. Let the market decide whether they're collectable and worth any premium. Other TPGs do this with no issues. PSA will do it, but only label as Authentic and not assign a number grade except for certain sets.
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A few more interesting finds:

    First, Luis Salazar - upper right blue border topped with pink, same with left edge of V in white on jersey (likely a plate misaligned - 2 of my 3 copies had the pink, all 4 on COMC don't)

    image

    Next up, 709a/b - gap in black border on right edge of bio area/no gap (thanks to junkwaxgems)

    image

    And finally, not really a variation, but interesting 'bubbly' printing in the black area of the back that I only found for players with the initials JB

    image
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't make me break out my 1990 Topps Rick Wrona. Because I'll do it.
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    Please, Arthur, anything but that
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was going to be nice but since Al decided to run his mouth, now this is happening.

    image
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    Nooooooooooo
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I was going to be nice but since Al decided to run his mouth, now this is happening. >>


    Love it when Wrona makes an appearance.
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Discovered today a pretty clear variation for #495 Lee Smith.

    White triangle in"S" in Red Sox

    and corrected (triangle airbrushed in)

    Kind of cool as this set is essentially devoid of corrected variations such as this. >>


    I think there's a third intermediate version as well w/a partial airbrush.
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A few more oddities I found...

    #245 Clemens - with and w/o blue dot to lower right of Topps logo

    image

    #258 Lyons - with and w/o red mark above bat

    image

    #268 Murphy - with and w/o weird white splotch above E in Red Sox

    image

    #272 Harvey - various shades of grey in right/bottom border

    image
  • West22West22 Posts: 224 ✭✭✭

    I went a googling for that Gene Harris blackless from the purple sheet and found it here. Appears my 1990 Topps green sheet variations more appropriately belong in this thread.

    753 Chris Speier

    651 Rafael Santana (Top border break and diagonal red stripe)

    649 Dan Murphy (bottom right border break and Topps logo)

    534 Louie Meadows (First name obscured)

    224 Delino DeShields (diagonal red stripe)

  • West22West22 Posts: 224 ✭✭✭

    776 Charlie Leibrandt right border breaks

  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭

    @West22 said:
    I went a googling for that Gene Harris blackless from the purple sheet and found it here. Appears my 1990 Topps green sheet variations more appropriately belong in this thread.

    Did you find another example of the Gene Harris card?

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  • West22West22 Posts: 224 ✭✭✭

    @saucywombat said:

    @West22 said:
    I went a googling for that Gene Harris blackless from the purple sheet and found it here. Appears my 1990 Topps green sheet variations more appropriately belong in this thread.

    Did you find another example of the Gene Harris card?

    Nope...pulled two Gene Harris cards and both were normal.

  • junkwaxgemsjunkwaxgems Posts: 224 ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2016 11:53AM

    Two other green sheet cards missing portions of black ink:

    Chris Gwynn (bottom left of card - noticeable in border)
    Roger Salkeld (bottom left of card - noticeable in name box area)

    fka jacksoncoupage, comc.com: junkwaxgems, ebay: junkwaxgems
  • West22West22 Posts: 224 ✭✭✭

    Nice! The only Salkeld I found was normal in my packs. Did not pull a Gwynn and could not find an image of the error online.

    Salkeld error courtesy junkwaxgems blog:

  • LargentcollectorLargentcollector Posts: 760 ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2016 6:56PM

    I always liked these "Globe" PD's, I opened a case of 90 Topps when I collected errors and all the Charlton and Perez cards were like this. I wonder how many cases had them


    My new website www.lowgradegems.com


    Tim
  • West22West22 Posts: 224 ✭✭✭

    I found a "globe" error on one of my Sammy Sosas.

    Adding to my earlier posts, Paul Coleman, Harold Baines "blue stripe" (there are others but very faint)

    and Jim Leyland "partial Jeff King" error:

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