Seated quarter experts re 1891-O...

DoubleEagle59

Is this date one of those 'undervalued' coins if you go by greysheet, specifically for VF to XF grades?

How rare is it?

rhedden

I don't know the greysheet amounts offhand, but it is a difficult coin to locate in VF/XF. It is considered a semi-key date in the series. Most are AG to VG for this date. Chances are that the greysheet is way too low if the coin is totally original and problem-free. If it has minor problems, like an old cleaning, buy it closer to the sheet price. There would be a big premium for a coin in a PCGS VF or XF slab.

zas107

It is severely undervalued by greysheet in those grades. It is an r4-r5 coin in that grade range, and is typically worth at least double the greysheet bid for those grades.

PonyExpress8

Definitely underrated. Auction records show a total of 5 coins. A VF30 sold for $2530 and is the most recent and relevant sale. Three other 4 are 5 years old or older. Current Greysheet bid for VF is $450 while XF is $2,000(+) in the July Quarterly.

As with most pre-1933 coinage, greysheet is significantly under what they go for. The POP reports also show this is a rare coin....

BillJones

<< <i>Chances are that the greysheet is way too low if the coin is totally original and problem-free. >>



This is one of the factors that affects some Gray Sheet numbers IMO. They show trades of problem coins that brought low prices that might have had the detail of the grade shown but not the true quality. This $450 price also might reflect a trade that occurred years ago that has never been updated.

ziggy29

<< <i>It is severely undervalued by greysheet in those grades. It is an r4-r5 coin in that grade range, and is typically worth at least double the greysheet bid for those grades. >>

Usually when a coin is only rarely seen original and problem-free, where the "sheet" often reflects the typical "market acceptable" messed with coin, the sheet is worthless for the original stuff with strong eye appeal.

rhedden

The typical Seated coin that shows up at a dealer's table at a show has been dipped and/or scrubbed to the point of whiteness, and probably has a rim ding or a scratch, too. Something like 3% of them are original and problem-free. That is why a PCGS VF30 might sell for 5X sheet or more- the sheet price is for the typically encountered, non-gradable material. There is a huge margin between PCGS prices and raw, problem coin prices for better-date and rare-date Seated material. Some people absolutely insist on PCGS coins, and there are just so few of them around.

Incidentally, I bought the VF-20-or-so details coin below, which has a minor problem or two, for $345. I don't think I got a deal on it. Price was about right. Contrast with the price realized for the PCGS VF30.

roadrunner

The 91-0 is overrated when it comes to total specimens extant...included the numerous damaged or cleaned ones routinely seen. Most specimens seem to show up in AG-VG.
That's similar to the also overrated 55-0. But it's true that problem free coins and especially those in Fine or better are rather challenging. I was looking at my 2008 Red Book
and it had a misprint of that mintage at 6,800. It's actually 68,000.

On total specimens known the 55-0 and 91-0 are basically in the same league as the much higher minted 58-0 and 59-0. Though in nice VF or better the 55-0 and 91-0 are much
tougher. I don't think the 55-0 and 91-0 in choice VF or better are any rarer the bulk of the top 40-45 seated quarter dates in those grades. It's a very long list covering
about 40% of all dates/mints. For instance I think a 42, 43-0, 47-0, 51, 68, 75-cc would just be a few of the dates I'd prefer over the 91-0 in VF....and in most cases at much
less money. The 43-0 with nearly 1 MILL minted gets little respect in comparison. I guess I was never really a big fan of the 91-0 because even since the early 1970's it has
commanded a strong price base on it being the only with motto New Olreans date and last year of the series. There were always many other dates to select from that carried more
bang for the buck. With only 68,000 minted it must have had a fairly high survival rate as seated quarters go. I'm hesitant to use auction records or slab results to judge the rarity
of all but the most key dates (ie 70-cc, 71-cc, etc.) because most of the nice circs are probably still raw and held by collectors/dealers/key date hoarders. Until they decide to sell
or unload why bother to slab them, esp. if they hold mini-hoards that could depress prices.

The much rarer 1851-0 shows up for about the same money in 2011 on Heritage archives ($1500ish for VF20/25). I'd take the 51-0 over a 91-0 in VF or XF any day if they are now
fetching similar prices. I'd take the 52-0 even for a little more money. It does seem like the 91-0 has entered the price range of the key dates in VF-XF (ie 51-0, 52-0, 67-s,
71-s, etc). There's no doubt which I would prefer if the prices are similar. The key dates exist in quantities of 125-200 pcs for all grades while the 91-0 is up in 300-500 range.
It's sort of surprising what a fairly low mintage and being the only New Olreans mint quarter of the past 30 yrs will do for you. But no doubt they are readily saleable in nice VF/XF as
recent auction prices suggest. 66 pcs in VF20 and better seems like plenty to me of which 60% of those are in XF or better (42 pcs in VF 20 or better for 51-0....33 pcs for 67-s).

Heritage recent price ranges for VF20 to XF45 PCGS is $1500-$3000. The more "perfect" they are for the grade the bigger the premium. A raw coin might only fetch 1/2 that amount until it is certified. NGC specimens might bring 20-30% less.

roadrunner

DoubleEagle59

Thanks to all for the great information.

That's why I love this place!!