That is one sweet box. I say Rip it...Rip it Good...
If you ever are worried about whether or not to rip an expensive box, you'll always get the support you need on the boards to feel good about the decision.
Mike is one of the few with waxpack willpower on the boards. I bet he's a great designated driver.
Anything is possible, but series 5/6/7 packs are very hard to come by individually and identified as such, so I'd suspect this particular box is original. JMHO. >>
Are they? I've never had trouble finding them, though I must admit I haven't looked in a long time. I bought my high series pack from the Perfect Card Company back in the 1990s. I've also heard of a partial case that's out there somewhere but I'm not sure what series it is. I don't view 1970 high number packs as being particularly scarce.
I think he was saying it might be hard to tell by seeing only one card on the back that you could tell it contained 3 different series cards. But if you have a 7th series card showing I think you know its a high series pack. But there are single series of 5th and 6th packs, not sure about 7th series though.
Is that the BBCE box? If so that's a 7k plus rip or so. Keep it sealed. It's like having access to cash or Gold. If you need some money someday, just cash it in...
Good Luck if you decide to rip. I see several hundred dollars in grading fees in your future, that's a good problem to have!!!
All kidding aside. Mike and others are absolutely right...in the aspect if history is any guide, that ripping a box such as this is almost a certain money loser.
Just a quick thought off the cuff because the knowledge guys such as Mike and Tim have about unopened packs, dwarfs anything I know. But I just have to figure based on some other comments that if those people who open virgin boxes and rip some in the box, and if they are duds, then they leave the others unopened if they are perceived to be duds, then the fact that it's a mixed box means it could very well be a box full of duds?...see what I'm saying? Maybe I'm wrong.
As much as most of us here would love to see a rip with some beautiful winners, it would be terrible for the OP to take a bad bath on the box - that's a lot of money there potentially lost. I guess it depends on the perspective of the buyer and how much the thrill of ripping is worth versus a potential bad loss.
<< <i>All kidding aside. Mike and others are absolutely right...in the aspect if history is any guide, that ripping a box such as this is almost a certain money loser.
Just a quick thought off the cuff because the knowledge guys such as Mike and Tim have about unopened packs, dwarfs anything I know. But I just have to figure based on some other comments that if those people who open virgin boxes and rip some in the box, and if they are duds, then they leave the others unopened if they are perceived to be duds, then the fact that it's a mixed box means it could very well be a box full of duds?...see what I'm saying? Maybe I'm wrong.
As much as most of us here would love to see a rip with some beautiful winners, it would be terrible for the OP to take a bad bath on the box - that's a lot of money there potentially lost. I guess it depends on the perspective of the buyer and how much the thrill of ripping is worth versus a potential bad loss. >>
lol, it's all relative man. $7000 is a lot of money, but maybe it's like $7 to the OP. It's really not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. Rip it!! I've opened some fairly high end boxes and won a few and lost on more than a few but the rush was incredible. If you bought it as a true investment then just put it away and don't think about it. If you bought it as entertainment with the chance to make some money then rip it. If you know that you are gonna rip it eventually and you are just delaying the inevitable then you should rip it now while the high numbers are lower pop than they will be later.
I want everyone to know that if this box has 240 miscut Aurelio Rodriguezes I will still be able to put food on the table - I won't be happy though!
Also, the gold/cash/wax box argument is compelling but when it comes time to bribe the border guards, I don't think baseball cards are gonna cut it! Guns and butter more likely.
Anything is possible, but series 5/6/7 packs are very hard to come by individually and identified as such, so I'd suspect this particular box is original. JMHO. >>
Are they? I've never had trouble finding them, though I must admit I haven't looked in a long time. I bought my high series pack from the Perfect Card Company back in the 1990s. I've also heard of a partial case that's out there somewhere but I'm not sure what series it is. I don't view 1970 high number packs as being particularly scarce.
The series 5/6/7 packs are definitely scarcer than lower, less desirable series packs, and pricing reflects that, though I'm sure they were more plentiful in 1990 than they are today (high series packs in general from any year are scarcer than lower series packs because their printing runs were usually shorter and abbrieviated due to football season packs coming into the stores at that same time). My understyanding, too,, from a long-time 1970 collector, is that any pack with series 7 cards is a series 5/6/7 pack.
Edit to add: As an unopened collector who also opens his shares his packs, this is one box I'd keep sealed, if only because a box like this is so rare in its own right, I'd just love to admire it in its original state. Once you crack open that first pack, there's no turning back...but good luck if that's what you decide to do!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The smart thing to do is go to Youtube and watch the few dozen unopened vintage pack rips on there. After doing so, you may have little urge to rip them. Good luck if you do though. >>
Go ahead and rip it, it will make the remaining boxes even more valuable . No I'm kidding. Mike is right, this needs to be set aside and admired in its own right.
Jim
Looking for 66 and 69 OPC baseball 60's OPC packs 72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs 72 and earlier BB cello
You wouldn't dare leave those cards in the dark, lonely, cramped confines of those wax tombs. Allow them one last caress by the supple hands of "grader 185". Let them feel the soft cool insides of a PSA slab!
"Freedom isn't free, It costs folks like you and me, and if we don't all chip in, we'll never have that thrill! Freedom isn't free, no, there's a hefty freakin' fee, and if you don't throw in your buck'o five, who will?"
I dont think hes looking at it as a sure fire profit. I would also rip that box if I could! More power to you. How else will a PSA 10 Nolan Ryan come to the market. This is the only way but still a long shot. Do what makes you happy. Unopened stuff just gives me stess as I dont know whats in it.
The bottom line - Steve at BBCE is an experienced, very experienced unopened pack seller, and he also sells PSA graded cards. If Steve thought this box was a potential big winner getting the cards graded, then in my opinion he definitely would have ripped it all himself.
So what it boils down to with this particular potential rip, is that you are basically going against the knowledge of one of the most experienced dealers out there...and to me that is a bad risk, a very bad risk, considering the unopened pack value of the box.
If money is no object to ya, then go ahead and rip...if losing perhaps at least a couple thou and probably more, means something to ya, then the much better choice is defrinitely to leave it as is.
And it hurts me to say this because I would have really enjoyed this rip. LOL
He also mailes out 1977 Topps football cellos with the best card showing on the back. Oh and also 1981 Football racks with the best card possible on the back. But he is an expert out to make money I guess
He sells packs bc hes good at it. Not bc he bust packs to have the cards graded....
Wow, what the heck happened??? I leave work with Devo stuck in my head and I come home to Steve and BBG actually agreeing with me on not ripping that box. I truly entered the twilight zone.
Seriously though, it really is all relative as both Steve and Tommy pointed out. If the goal was to spend that money for the enjoyment of ripping those packs looking for Ryan, Aaron, Mays, etc. then go for it and enjoy the rush. If it was for investment purposes, this box will only increase in value of the years if left unopened.
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting: Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i> The series 5/6/7 packs are definitely scarcer than lower, less desirable series packs, and pricing reflects that, though I'm sure they were more plentiful in 1990 than they are today (high series packs in general from any year are scarcer than lower series packs because their printing runs were usually shorter and abbrieviated due to football season packs coming into the stores at that same time). My understyanding, too,, from a long-time 1970 collector, is that any pack with series 7 cards is a series 5/6/7 pack.
Edit to add: As an unopened collector who also opens his shares his packs, this is one box I'd keep sealed, if only because a box like this is so rare in its own right, I'd just love to admire it in its original state. Once you crack open that first pack, there's no turning back...but good luck if that's what you decide to do! >>
I'm also pretty sure all 7th series cards came in packs that also included 5th and 6th. I've never seen a 7th series only pack. As for distribution, I agree that the 7th series was printed in smaller quantities than the other series'. However, since the high series packs didn't sell as well, in pack form, they survived at a higher rate than earlier series'. Just like '75 minis that were printed in much lower quantities than the regulars yet are much more common in pack form. I also think it has to do with finds. Like the 1960 2nd series and 1952 1st series packs, one or two major finds can result in one series being dominant in terms of what's left unopened.
The bottom line - Steve at BBCE is an experienced, very experienced unopened pack seller, and he also sells PSA graded cards. If Steve thought this box was a potential big winner getting the cards graded, then in my opinion he definitely would have ripped it all himself.
I disagree with this statement. I don't believe Steve engages in that kind of thinking when he sells unopened product. If he did, he wouldn't send out 81 rack packs with Montana rookies showing at the same price for a generic rack or any other star packs for that matter, as he can obviously make a lot more money cherrypicking those packs even though he refuses to do so. SteveK, I know you are cynical of all sellers, and that you've assumed the role of "Negative Nelly" here in some cases, and though I do think some sellers would think the way you described. I'm virtually certain Steve does not. In fact, I'd bet that the vast majority of PSA graded cards in Steve's inventory are acquired already graded, not by raw submission, even though he obviously has access to tons of unopened product.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>He also mailes out 1977 Topps football cellos with the best card showing on the back. Oh and also 1981 Football racks with the best card possible on the back. But he is an expert out to make money I guess
He sells packs bc hes good at it. Not bc he bust packs to have the cards graded.... >>
Well...as we know, there's a big price difference between very high grade 1970 Topps Baseball and the cards you mentioned.
Yes, Steve of course is out to make money...nothing wrong with that...and I would do the exact same thing in his shoes...if there is "obviously" more money in busting the packs, I'm busting them, getting the cards PSA graded, and selling them to achieve maximum profit. If I feel it's more profitable to sell the packs unopened, then I would do that.
Of course there's always a chance, albeit in my opinion a very slim chance, that Steve could be wrong and maybe there's some key card 9's or 10's sitting in that box. The only way to find out would be to bust all the packs.
maybe this will make sense. Steve knows the odds for what could be in the packs. I give you that.
Example. What does a 1989 Donruss box go for 15.00? A Ken Jr goes for what 5.00? So hes selling the box for 3 times a Ken but there might not even be one in there. He buys the box for 10.00. And sold it for 15.00 so he pretty much gets a Ken every time he sells it
Yes yes but what if the run is MINT.. Who cares when you get a jr. every time for nothing.
<< <i>The bottom line - Steve at BBCE is an experienced, very experienced unopened pack seller, and he also sells PSA graded cards. If Steve thought this box was a potential big winner getting the cards graded, then in my opinion he definitely would have ripped it all himself.
I disagree with this statement. I don't believe Steve engages in that kind of thinking when he sells unopened product. If he did, he wouldn't send out 81 rack packs with Montana rookies showing at the same price for a generic rack or any other star packs for that matter, as he can obviously make a lot more money cherrypicking those packs even though he refuses to do so. SteveK, I know you are cynical of all sellers, and that you've assumed the role of "Negative Nelly" here in some cases, and though I do think some sellers would think the way you described. I'm virtually certain Steve does not. In fact, I'd bet that the vast majority of PSA graded cards in Steve's inventory are acquired already graded, not by raw submission, even though he obviously has access to tons of unopened product. >>
Tim - you're offering your opinion about Steve, and that's okay...but there's no way you can know "I'm virtually certain Steve does not" especially because if Steve bought a box of 1970 Topps, and if he made the call to bust one pack, and in that pack it contained nothing but minty, beautifully centered, 9's and 10's, In no way, shape or form would he not bust the rest of those packs and get the cards PSA slabbed.
He runs a business, to achieve maximum profit...he doesn't run a charity to make big money for those who want to buy his packs and bust them for potential profit. It's a lot of time and effort to run a business the size of his, and he's entitled to make the most profit he can, and not obviously give money away when through his knowledge and experience he knows he is overall better off busting certain unopened packs rather than selling them unopened - that's my opinion.
Steve is a wonderfully honest and forthright businessman...one of the best if not the best I've seen in this industry, in an industry infested with weasel dealers...but in my viewpoint it would be quite silly and foolish for a any businessman like Steve to sell an unopened box for say 7K, when he is virtually certain that he could bust the packs, get them graded, and sell the graded cards for say 25K or more...just pretty much seems like common sense to me.
Now what are the odds that it will be a 25K MINTY box verse being a 7 K box? Those are also things to consider. Is it worth busting a pack or maybe 6 every time you buy a box? I dont think so. Can you tell by 1 busting pack that the box is going to be MINTY? Id take a Ken Jr Rookie every time over that theory.
When I say Id Im saying I think Steve thinks this way with his business.
SteveK, you suggest that Steve Hart is inclined to open a "test pack or two" to see if the cards are gem mint or OC, but I really do not believe that is the case. I understand you look at these situations from a cynical perspective, but yes, I am "virtually certain" that Steve is not opening a couple "test packs" on higher-end boxes to check the quality of the cards. His profit is built into the sale of the box as a whole, the value of which I'm also virtually certain is more than likely greater than the sum of its parts. The reality of the issue is that busting vintage wax is a real long shot proposition in the first place, and I just don't see SteveK checking into the quality of the cards before deciding to sell the box or self-submit to PSA. Just don't see that happening in his business model..
Now where's that broken record of SteveK's greatest hits...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>maybe this will make sense. Steve knows the odds for what could be in the packs. I give you that.
Example. What does a 1989 Donruss box go for 15.00? A Ken Jr goes for what 5.00? So hes selling the box for 3 times a Ken but there might not even be one in there. He buys the box for 10.00. And sold it for 15.00 so he pretty much gets a Ken every time he sells it
Yes yes but what if the run is MINT.. Who cares when you get a jr. every time for nothing. >>
Modern unopened packs, as we know, are much easier to obtain than vintage. In my opinion, Steve likely has made these type of calculations and considering what 9's and 10's sell for in modern unopened packs, he likely gives up a few winning packs to sell all of them at an overall price which would be greater than the time and expense spent of busting numerous unopened packs looking for these type of cards. And it's good business to hand out some winners with modern unopened and keep his customers coming back for more.
Vintage packs are different - not easy to find and obtain, so when he does get one, it only makes good business sense that he would be very careful to achieve the maximum profit he can. I'm not being a Negative Nelly here even though I guess Tim thinks I am...but just staying on topic giving solid reasons why the OP should not bust these packs, if indeed the only motivation is profit...because in my strong viewpoint, there very likely won't be any profit, and likely a large loss.
But...that's the OP's call and it's his money, and if he decides to bust...I'll be rooting for him.
Also Steve has several 1933 Goudeys. I bet he found a wax pack that he didnt want to sell to the public and just bust it himself. Man I wish he didnt bc I would have paid 10x what those cards sell for.
<< <i>SteveK, you suggest that Steve Hart is inclined to open a "test pack or two" to see if the cards are gem mint or OC, but I really do not believe that is the case. I understand you look at these situations from a cynical perspective, but yes, I am "virtually certain" that Steve is not opening a couple "test packs" on higher-end boxes to check the quality of the cards. His profit is built into the sale of the box as a whole, the value of which I'm also virtually certain is greater than the sum of its parts. The reality of the issue is that busting vintage wax is a losing proposition in the first place, and I just don't see SteveK checking the cards in a test pack before selling the box or deciding to self-submit to PSA. Just don't see that happening in his business model..
Now where's that broken record of SteveK's greatest hits... >>
I of course have no idea what Steve does or doesn't do in this regard, and neither do you Tim...just saying what a smart businessman would do and I believe Steve is a very smart businessman. I fully understand your point, and with my previous post I agree with you about modern unopened packs, but I have to disagree about vintage unopened packs simply because they sell for so much more, and potential profit on high grade cards is so much more.
<<< The reality of the issue is that busting vintage wax is a losing proposition in the first place, >>>
Tim...this just isn't always true...think it thru and let me explain. You're exactly right from the aspect of buying from a dealer - no argument from me whatsoever about that and we are on the same page. However from a dealer perspective of whether to bust a vintage pack or not, he's got the "inside information" on the pack which we don't have. Two examples...one he goes out to an old ladies house whose husband has died, the packs were carefully stored in an air conditioned, climate controlled environment, well protected, etc for a long time...versus going to someone's house and the cards were stored in a hot attic or a moldy basement, etc. That's a big difference in the possibilities of gum damage, wax stain damage, dinged corners inside the pack, etc. If you're asking me is a dealer more likely to bust the pack in the first case scenario and slab the pack in the second case scenaio?...well, I would have to say yes. Of course there are all kinds of other factors involved as well...but this in my view would be a starting point for any unopened pack dealer to decide on whether to bust the packs for maximum profit, or slab the packs for maximum profit.
This real simple. You obviously went from one addiction to another. You really don't have a clue do you? Your positions are all over the place. It went from wanting the OP to bust packs to since he didn't, it wouldn't be a good investment, to Steve and BBCE test their packs from boxes etc. Your ruining another thread once again.
Since I'm up I'll chime in...
I hope Steve doesn't mind, but I'm going to paste a PM he sent me. Not only do I believe he is legit, but I believe your lost in your own circle of life with no clear path. I said it before. You really don't know you don't know.
BBCE Date Posted: Sep/07/2011 7:44 PM Mike, I rarely ever use this PM thingy, but I'm on the road to buy a collection and I dont have your e-mail memorized!
Anyway, every single package was shipped out today, except for ThoseBackPages who has not paid yet. I know Eric and I'm sure he will pay us soon.
Just kind of wanted to let you know that I am real short handed this week as a couple of my guys are on vacation this week. Therefore, I packaged all the product myself from this current rip. Since I was the one who packaged it, I noticed a Montana RC showing right on back of one of the racks!!! I also noticed a 1977 Topps football cello pack with O.J. Simpson on top, when I flipped it over a Walter Payton was on back! So I know of at least two people who will be surprised. Since its a random draw straight from the boxes, I have no idea who got them. I'm sure they will post the results when they get them!
<< <i>The 1989 Donruss example I was trying to keep it SIMPLE. Nothing to do with modern vs vintage
A model used for both
Now when I say a model used for both I mean. A business model. >>
You and Tim both make good points and since none of us know for sure anyway, it's all opinion anyway.
I always enjoy discussing unopened packs in order to learn, because I'll say this about Tim...I don't particularly like Mets fans but Tim has saved me a lot of money over the years from not getting conned on those ebay scammer unopened packs...and don't tell him this, but I am very appreciative of that.
<< <i>This real simple. You obviously went from one addiction to another. You really don't have a clue do you? Your positions are all over the place. It went from wanting the OP to bust packs to since he didn't, it wouldn't be a good investment, to Steve and BBCE test their packs from boxes etc. Your ruining another thread once again.
Since I'm up I'll chime in...
I hope Steve doesn't mind, but I'm going to paste a PM he sent me. Not only do I believe he is legit, but I believe your lost in your own circle of life with no clear path. I said it before. You really don't know you don't know.
BBCE Date Posted: Sep/07/2011 7:44 PM Mike, I rarely ever use this PM thingy, but I'm on the road to buy a collection and I dont have your e-mail memorized!
Anyway, every single package was shipped out today, except for ThoseBackPages who has not paid yet. I know Eric and I'm sure he will pay us soon.
Just kind of wanted to let you know that I am real short handed this week as a couple of my guys are on vacation this week. Therefore, I packaged all the product myself from this current rip. Since I was the one who packaged it, I noticed a Montana RC showing right on back of one of the racks!!! I also noticed a 1977 Topps football cello pack with O.J. Simpson on top, when I flipped it over a Walter Payton was on back! So I know of at least two people who will be surprised. Since its a random draw straight from the boxes, I have no idea who got them. I'm sure they will post the results when they get them!
Thanks! Steve
Reply
Delete
Top
Bottom >>
I'm tired of explaining my viewpoints and posts to you. You got it all wrong, completely wrong, again...but you're gonna believe whatever you want to believe, and that's that.....
.....so have fun and enjoy the forum...and I hope you have fun and enjoy the forum as much as I do.
<< <i>You keep saying that members have saved you money over the years, etc, etc. Post your last purchase, you have 3 years of history to work with. >>
Alright, one more reply to you for the road...I generally keep my buying and selling private...probably just like around 99% of the members here do. Once in a while, when I feel like it, I do post a pic of one of my cards, programs, tickets, etc...and I'm sorry if that doesn't meet with your approval.
I have to agree with those that are urging you to keep that box sealed. Yes a ripping desire is tough to fight off sometimes but seriously, buy a box of 78 Topps and rip away. There are not too many of your box around. There are quite a few of the cards inside around. If you're ripping with the hope that you'll get a few HOF or Low pop 9/10's, just consider that you have a box that's probably as rare as any one card that you could possibly pull out of there. Plus, cards are being graded every day from that set. Boxes like yours do not pop up every day. I can't say anything else that might be convincing. I'm not talking money. I'm talking simple rarity.
Put simply, If you bust the box, you'll have a bunch of stuff that a lot of other people have. If you leave it sealed, you'll have something that very few other people have.
<< <i> Put simply, If you bust the box, you'll have a bunch of stuff that a lot of other people have. If you leave it sealed, you'll have something that very few other people have. >>
Comments
If you ever are worried about whether or not to rip an expensive box, you'll always get the support you need on the boards to feel good about the decision.
Mike is one of the few with waxpack willpower on the boards. I bet he's a great designated driver.
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>I bet he's a great designated driver. >>
Yeah, I like to be sober when I run over old ladies, right Steve.
Now I've got Devo in my head and an hour drive home from work. I hope I still have that Rush CD in my car.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>Gemmint,
Anything is possible, but series 5/6/7 packs are very hard to come by individually and identified as such, so I'd suspect this particular box is original. JMHO. >>
Are they? I've never had trouble finding them, though I must admit I haven't looked in a long time. I bought my high series pack from the Perfect Card Company back in the 1990s. I've also heard of a partial case that's out there somewhere but I'm not sure what series it is. I don't view 1970 high number packs as being particularly scarce.
Find a nice place to display it. You'll be hard-pressed to recover your investment if you rip.
Good Luck if you decide to rip. I see several hundred dollars in grading fees in your future, that's a good problem to have!!!
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
Just a quick thought off the cuff because the knowledge guys such as Mike and Tim have about unopened packs, dwarfs anything I know. But I just have to figure based on some other comments that if those people who open virgin boxes and rip some in the box, and if they are duds, then they leave the others unopened if they are perceived to be duds, then the fact that it's a mixed box means it could very well be a box full of duds?...see what I'm saying? Maybe I'm wrong.
As much as most of us here would love to see a rip with some beautiful winners, it would be terrible for the OP to take a bad bath on the box - that's a lot of money there potentially lost. I guess it depends on the perspective of the buyer and how much the thrill of ripping is worth versus a potential bad loss.
<< <i>All kidding aside. Mike and others are absolutely right...in the aspect if history is any guide, that ripping a box such as this is almost a certain money loser.
Just a quick thought off the cuff because the knowledge guys such as Mike and Tim have about unopened packs, dwarfs anything I know. But I just have to figure based on some other comments that if those people who open virgin boxes and rip some in the box, and if they are duds, then they leave the others unopened if they are perceived to be duds, then the fact that it's a mixed box means it could very well be a box full of duds?...see what I'm saying? Maybe I'm wrong.
As much as most of us here would love to see a rip with some beautiful winners, it would be terrible for the OP to take a bad bath on the box - that's a lot of money there potentially lost. I guess it depends on the perspective of the buyer and how much the thrill of ripping is worth versus a potential bad loss. >>
lol, it's all relative man. $7000 is a lot of money, but maybe it's like $7 to the OP. It's really not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. Rip it!! I've opened some fairly high end boxes and won a few and lost on more than a few but the rush was incredible. If you bought it as a true investment then just put it away and don't think about it. If you bought it as entertainment with the chance to make some money then rip it. If you know that you are gonna rip it eventually and you are just delaying the inevitable then you should rip it now while the high numbers are lower pop than they will be later.
Also, the gold/cash/wax box argument is compelling but when it comes time to bribe the border guards, I don't think baseball cards are gonna cut it! Guns and butter more likely.
Anything is possible, but series 5/6/7 packs are very hard to come by individually and identified as such, so I'd suspect this particular box is original. JMHO. >>
Are they? I've never had trouble finding them, though I must admit I haven't looked in a long time. I bought my high series pack from the Perfect Card Company back in the 1990s. I've also heard of a partial case that's out there somewhere but I'm not sure what series it is. I don't view 1970 high number packs as being particularly scarce.
The series 5/6/7 packs are definitely scarcer than lower, less desirable series packs, and pricing reflects that, though I'm sure they were more plentiful in 1990 than they are today (high series packs in general from any year are scarcer than lower series packs because their printing runs were usually shorter and abbrieviated due to football season packs coming into the stores at that same time). My understyanding, too,, from a long-time 1970 collector, is that any pack with series 7 cards is a series 5/6/7 pack.
Edit to add: As an unopened collector who also opens his shares his packs, this is one box I'd keep sealed, if only because a box like this is so rare in its own right, I'd just love to admire it in its original state. Once you crack open that first pack, there's no turning back...but good luck if that's what you decide to do!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The smart thing to do is go to Youtube and watch the few dozen unopened vintage pack rips on there. After doing so, you may have little urge to rip them. Good luck if you do though. >>
Jim
60's OPC packs
72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs
72 and earlier BB cello
Go rip a box worth $1,000 to cover the itch.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
"Freedom isn't free, It costs folks like you and me, and if we don't all chip in, we'll never have that thrill! Freedom isn't free, no, there's a hefty freakin' fee, and if you don't throw in your buck'o five, who will?"
Do what makes you happy. Unopened stuff just gives me stess as I dont know whats in it.
So what it boils down to with this particular potential rip, is that you are basically going against the knowledge of one of the most experienced dealers out there...and to me that is a bad risk, a very bad risk, considering the unopened pack value of the box.
If money is no object to ya, then go ahead and rip...if losing perhaps at least a couple thou and probably more, means something to ya, then the much better choice is defrinitely to leave it as is.
And it hurts me to say this because I would have really enjoyed this rip. LOL
Oh and also 1981 Football racks with the best card possible on the back.
But he is an expert out to make money I guess
He sells packs bc hes good at it. Not bc he bust packs to have the cards graded....
Seriously though, it really is all relative as both Steve and Tommy pointed out. If the goal was to spend that money for the enjoyment of ripping those packs looking for Ryan, Aaron, Mays, etc. then go for it and enjoy the rush. If it was for investment purposes, this box will only increase in value of the years if left unopened.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>
The series 5/6/7 packs are definitely scarcer than lower, less desirable series packs, and pricing reflects that, though I'm sure they were more plentiful in 1990 than they are today (high series packs in general from any year are scarcer than lower series packs because their printing runs were usually shorter and abbrieviated due to football season packs coming into the stores at that same time). My understyanding, too,, from a long-time 1970 collector, is that any pack with series 7 cards is a series 5/6/7 pack.
Edit to add: As an unopened collector who also opens his shares his packs, this is one box I'd keep sealed, if only because a box like this is so rare in its own right, I'd just love to admire it in its original state. Once you crack open that first pack, there's no turning back...but good luck if that's what you decide to do! >>
I'm also pretty sure all 7th series cards came in packs that also included 5th and 6th. I've never seen a 7th series only pack. As for distribution, I agree that the 7th series was printed in smaller quantities than the other series'. However, since the high series packs didn't sell as well, in pack form, they survived at a higher rate than earlier series'. Just like '75 minis that were printed in much lower quantities than the regulars yet are much more common in pack form. I also think it has to do with finds. Like the 1960 2nd series and 1952 1st series packs, one or two major finds can result in one series being dominant in terms of what's left unopened.
I disagree with this statement. I don't believe Steve engages in that kind of thinking when he sells unopened product. If he did, he wouldn't send out 81 rack packs with Montana rookies showing at the same price for a generic rack or any other star packs for that matter, as he can obviously make a lot more money cherrypicking those packs even though he refuses to do so. SteveK, I know you are cynical of all sellers, and that you've assumed the role of "Negative Nelly" here in some cases, and though I do think some sellers would think the way you described. I'm virtually certain Steve does not. In fact, I'd bet that the vast majority of PSA graded cards in Steve's inventory are acquired already graded, not by raw submission, even though he obviously has access to tons of unopened product.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>He also mailes out 1977 Topps football cellos with the best card showing on the back.
Oh and also 1981 Football racks with the best card possible on the back.
But he is an expert out to make money I guess
He sells packs bc hes good at it. Not bc he bust packs to have the cards graded.... >>
Well...as we know, there's a big price difference between very high grade 1970 Topps Baseball and the cards you mentioned.
Yes, Steve of course is out to make money...nothing wrong with that...and I would do the exact same thing in his shoes...if there is "obviously" more money in busting the packs, I'm busting them, getting the cards PSA graded, and selling them to achieve maximum profit. If I feel it's more profitable to sell the packs unopened, then I would do that.
Of course there's always a chance, albeit in my opinion a very slim chance, that Steve could be wrong and maybe there's some key card 9's or 10's sitting in that box. The only way to find out would be to bust all the packs.
Steve sells packs. He doesnt bust packs....
Steve knows the odds for what could be in the packs. I give you that.
Example.
What does a 1989 Donruss box go for 15.00?
A Ken Jr goes for what 5.00?
So hes selling the box for 3 times a Ken but there might not even be one in there.
He buys the box for 10.00. And sold it for 15.00 so he pretty much gets a Ken every time he sells it
Yes yes but what if the run is MINT..
Who cares when you get a jr. every time for nothing.
<< <i>The bottom line - Steve at BBCE is an experienced, very experienced unopened pack seller, and he also sells PSA graded cards. If Steve thought this box was a potential big winner getting the cards graded, then in my opinion he definitely would have ripped it all himself.
I disagree with this statement. I don't believe Steve engages in that kind of thinking when he sells unopened product. If he did, he wouldn't send out 81 rack packs with Montana rookies showing at the same price for a generic rack or any other star packs for that matter, as he can obviously make a lot more money cherrypicking those packs even though he refuses to do so. SteveK, I know you are cynical of all sellers, and that you've assumed the role of "Negative Nelly" here in some cases, and though I do think some sellers would think the way you described. I'm virtually certain Steve does not. In fact, I'd bet that the vast majority of PSA graded cards in Steve's inventory are acquired already graded, not by raw submission, even though he obviously has access to tons of unopened product. >>
Tim - you're offering your opinion about Steve, and that's okay...but there's no way you can know "I'm virtually certain Steve does not" especially because if Steve bought a box of 1970 Topps, and if he made the call to bust one pack, and in that pack it contained nothing but minty, beautifully centered, 9's and 10's, In no way, shape or form would he not bust the rest of those packs and get the cards PSA slabbed.
He runs a business, to achieve maximum profit...he doesn't run a charity to make big money for those who want to buy his packs and bust them for potential profit. It's a lot of time and effort to run a business the size of his, and he's entitled to make the most profit he can, and not obviously give money away when through his knowledge and experience he knows he is overall better off busting certain unopened packs rather than selling them unopened - that's my opinion.
Steve is a wonderfully honest and forthright businessman...one of the best if not the best I've seen in this industry, in an industry infested with weasel dealers...but in my viewpoint it would be quite silly and foolish for a any businessman like Steve to sell an unopened box for say 7K, when he is virtually certain that he could bust the packs, get them graded, and sell the graded cards for say 25K or more...just pretty much seems like common sense to me.
Now what are the odds that it will be a 25K MINTY box verse being a 7 K box?
Those are also things to consider. Is it worth busting a pack or maybe 6 every time you buy a box? I dont think so. Can you tell by 1 busting pack that the box is going to be MINTY?
Id take a Ken Jr Rookie every time over that theory.
When I say Id Im saying I think Steve thinks this way with his business.
Now where's that broken record of SteveK's greatest hits...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>maybe this will make sense.
Steve knows the odds for what could be in the packs. I give you that.
Example.
What does a 1989 Donruss box go for 15.00?
A Ken Jr goes for what 5.00?
So hes selling the box for 3 times a Ken but there might not even be one in there.
He buys the box for 10.00. And sold it for 15.00 so he pretty much gets a Ken every time he sells it
Yes yes but what if the run is MINT..
Who cares when you get a jr. every time for nothing. >>
Modern unopened packs, as we know, are much easier to obtain than vintage. In my opinion, Steve likely has made these type of calculations and considering what 9's and 10's sell for in modern unopened packs, he likely gives up a few winning packs to sell all of them at an overall price which would be greater than the time and expense spent of busting numerous unopened packs looking for these type of cards. And it's good business to hand out some winners with modern unopened and keep his customers coming back for more.
Vintage packs are different - not easy to find and obtain, so when he does get one, it only makes good business sense that he would be very careful to achieve the maximum profit he can. I'm not being a Negative Nelly here even though I guess Tim thinks I am...but just staying on topic giving solid reasons why the OP should not bust these packs, if indeed the only motivation is profit...because in my strong viewpoint, there very likely won't be any profit, and likely a large loss.
But...that's the OP's call and it's his money, and if he decides to bust...I'll be rooting for him.
Nothing to do with modern vs vintage
A model used for both
Now when I say a model used for both I mean.
A business model.
<< <i>SteveK, you suggest that Steve Hart is inclined to open a "test pack or two" to see if the cards are gem mint or OC, but I really do not believe that is the case. I understand you look at these situations from a cynical perspective, but yes, I am "virtually certain" that Steve is not opening a couple "test packs" on higher-end boxes to check the quality of the cards. His profit is built into the sale of the box as a whole, the value of which I'm also virtually certain is greater than the sum of its parts. The reality of the issue is that busting vintage wax is a losing proposition in the first place, and I just don't see SteveK checking the cards in a test pack before selling the box or deciding to self-submit to PSA. Just don't see that happening in his business model..
Now where's that broken record of SteveK's greatest hits...
I of course have no idea what Steve does or doesn't do in this regard, and neither do you Tim...just saying what a smart businessman would do and I believe Steve is a very smart businessman. I fully understand your point, and with my previous post I agree with you about modern unopened packs, but I have to disagree about vintage unopened packs simply because they sell for so much more, and potential profit on high grade cards is so much more.
<<< The reality of the issue is that busting vintage wax is a losing proposition in the first place, >>>
Tim...this just isn't always true...think it thru and let me explain. You're exactly right from the aspect of buying from a dealer - no argument from me whatsoever about that and we are on the same page. However from a dealer perspective of whether to bust a vintage pack or not, he's got the "inside information" on the pack which we don't have. Two examples...one he goes out to an old ladies house whose husband has died, the packs were carefully stored in an air conditioned, climate controlled environment, well protected, etc for a long time...versus going to someone's house and the cards were stored in a hot attic or a moldy basement, etc. That's a big difference in the possibilities of gum damage, wax stain damage, dinged corners inside the pack, etc. If you're asking me is a dealer more likely to bust the pack in the first case scenario and slab the pack in the second case scenaio?...well, I would have to say yes. Of course there are all kinds of other factors involved as well...but this in my view would be a starting point for any unopened pack dealer to decide on whether to bust the packs for maximum profit, or slab the packs for maximum profit.
Since I'm up I'll chime in...
I hope Steve doesn't mind, but I'm going to paste a PM he sent me. Not only do I believe he is legit, but I believe your lost in your own circle of life with no clear path. I said it before. You really don't know you don't know.
BBCE
Date Posted: Sep/07/2011 7:44 PM
Mike,
I rarely ever use this PM thingy, but I'm on the road to buy a collection and I dont have your e-mail memorized!
Anyway, every single package was shipped out today, except for ThoseBackPages who has not paid yet. I know Eric and I'm sure he will pay us soon.
Just kind of wanted to let you know that I am real short handed this week as a couple of my guys are on vacation this week. Therefore, I packaged all the product myself from this current rip. Since I was the one who packaged it, I noticed a Montana RC showing right on back of one of the racks!!! I also noticed a 1977 Topps football cello pack with O.J. Simpson on top, when I flipped it over a Walter Payton was on back! So I know of at least two people who will be surprised. Since its a random draw straight from the boxes, I have no idea who got them. I'm sure they will post the results when they get them!
Thanks! Steve
Reply
Delete
Top
Bottom
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>The 1989 Donruss example I was trying to keep it SIMPLE.
Nothing to do with modern vs vintage
A model used for both
Now when I say a model used for both I mean.
A business model. >>
You and Tim both make good points and since none of us know for sure anyway, it's all opinion anyway.
I always enjoy discussing unopened packs in order to learn, because I'll say this about Tim...I don't particularly like Mets fans but Tim has saved me a lot of money over the years from not getting conned on those ebay scammer unopened packs...and don't tell him this, but I am very appreciative of that.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>This real simple. You obviously went from one addiction to another. You really don't have a clue do you? Your positions are all over the place. It went from wanting the OP to bust packs to since he didn't, it wouldn't be a good investment, to Steve and BBCE test their packs from boxes etc. Your ruining another thread once again.
Since I'm up I'll chime in...
I hope Steve doesn't mind, but I'm going to paste a PM he sent me. Not only do I believe he is legit, but I believe your lost in your own circle of life with no clear path. I said it before. You really don't know you don't know.
BBCE
Date Posted: Sep/07/2011 7:44 PM
Mike,
I rarely ever use this PM thingy, but I'm on the road to buy a collection and I dont have your e-mail memorized!
Anyway, every single package was shipped out today, except for ThoseBackPages who has not paid yet. I know Eric and I'm sure he will pay us soon.
Just kind of wanted to let you know that I am real short handed this week as a couple of my guys are on vacation this week. Therefore, I packaged all the product myself from this current rip. Since I was the one who packaged it, I noticed a Montana RC showing right on back of one of the racks!!! I also noticed a 1977 Topps football cello pack with O.J. Simpson on top, when I flipped it over a Walter Payton was on back! So I know of at least two people who will be surprised. Since its a random draw straight from the boxes, I have no idea who got them. I'm sure they will post the results when they get them!
Thanks! Steve
Reply
Delete
Top
Bottom >>
I'm tired of explaining my viewpoints and posts to you. You got it all wrong, completely wrong, again...but you're gonna believe whatever you want to believe, and that's that.....
.....so have fun and enjoy the forum...and I hope you have fun and enjoy the forum as much as I do.
<< <i>You keep saying that members have saved you money over the years, etc, etc. Post your last purchase, you have 3 years of history to work with. >>
Alright, one more reply to you for the road...I generally keep my buying and selling private...probably just like around 99% of the members here do. Once in a while, when I feel like it, I do post a pic of one of my cards, programs, tickets, etc...and I'm sorry if that doesn't meet with your approval.
Put simply, If you bust the box, you'll have a bunch of stuff that a lot of other people have. If you leave it sealed, you'll have something that very few other people have.
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
<< <i>
Put simply, If you bust the box, you'll have a bunch of stuff that a lot of other people have. If you leave it sealed, you'll have something that very few other people have. >>