Calling all you Silver Art experts. Do I have anything "rare"?
piecesofme
Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
I am such a NERD, and what's sad is I am turning my daughter into one too! 
How did we spend our Saturday afternoon? Got out some silver pieces that I've picked up thru the years that I thought were just cool and we got some good ol' silver cleaner out and polished them up. (doesn't matter with .999, right? I hope.)
They either had some design or theme that I liked and I just bought it and threw it on the stack. So my question to you who know more than I ever will about Silver Art bars is, do I have anything that carries a premium more than just the silver content of the piece. I know the Coca-Cola one does a bit, but just about everything else, I don't know...I just like it. Thanks for the help in advance, feel free to comment.
Same ones, most are flipped to show other side.
Some more, 2nd pic is with some flipped to show the design.
These are some old school Engelhards that I've come across and just had to have. Love those tiny A-Mark ones too.
I also have a few "blue" pieces that I can show if you message me. I'm sure I'd get booted if I put them in this thread
And no, I didn't let my 11 year old daughter see them lol.
How did we spend our Saturday afternoon? Got out some silver pieces that I've picked up thru the years that I thought were just cool and we got some good ol' silver cleaner out and polished them up. (doesn't matter with .999, right? I hope.)
They either had some design or theme that I liked and I just bought it and threw it on the stack. So my question to you who know more than I ever will about Silver Art bars is, do I have anything that carries a premium more than just the silver content of the piece. I know the Coca-Cola one does a bit, but just about everything else, I don't know...I just like it. Thanks for the help in advance, feel free to comment.
Same ones, most are flipped to show other side.
Some more, 2nd pic is with some flipped to show the design.
These are some old school Engelhards that I've come across and just had to have. Love those tiny A-Mark ones too.
I also have a few "blue" pieces that I can show if you message me. I'm sure I'd get booted if I put them in this thread
And no, I didn't let my 11 year old daughter see them lol. To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
lol...ok, now I have what I want in the thread.
Pipedreamer is better - take a good look at it
I collect the small a-mark bars if you want to sell those - I just like the way they stack - trying to accumulate 100 of them
On the Engelhards, is the middle vertical one rare? It's the only one I've ever seen like it.
The only ones that may command more than a 'regular' 999 premium would be the First National Bank of Chicago (minor), the middle of the 3 'vertical' Engelhards, and the 3 'horizontal' Engelhard Industries.
And the A-Mark bars.
<< <i>Roanoke, VA on the Coke bar.
On the Engelhards, is the middle vertical one rare? It's the only one I've ever seen like it. >>
That Engalhard is the one that demands more premium for what I saw when I used to buy silver bars.
Better is sealed (the plastic has some red logos on it). Though, it is not rare.
It is my favorite. I have the same design in few 1g gold bars.
<< <i>I am such a NERD, and what's sad is I am turning my daughter into one too!
How did we spend our Saturday afternoon? Got out some silver pieces that I've picked up thru the years that I thought were just cool and we got some good ol' silver cleaner out and polished them up. (doesn't matter with .999, right? I hope.)
They either had some design or theme that I liked and I just bought it and threw it on the stack. So my question to you who know more than I ever will about Silver Art bars is, do I have anything that carries a premium more than just the silver content of the piece. I know the Coca-Cola one does a bit, but just about everything else, I don't know...I just like it. Thanks for the help in advance, feel free to comment.
Same ones, most are flipped to show other side.
>>
Piecesofme,
In the first and second pictures, most of those are common-minted silver art bars. The Mother-Lode mint bars pictured in the first and second pics are common-minted '70's silver art bars and they will fetch a small premium on ebay (winning bids of $4-$5 over spot) but after ebay and paypal expenses, that will not be much. BIN's will be higher than that but will sell at a slower rate.
The Hamilton Mint bars (America The Beautiful, San Francisco Cable car, Pikes Peak, Transcontinental Railroad, Wright Brothers plane and the bar above the Wright brothers plane) are also common-minted '70's silver art bars and, like the Mother-Lode Mint bars, they will fetch a small premium on ebay (winning bids of $4-$5 over spot) but after ebay and paypal fees, that will not be much. Maybe $2-$3 over spot after fees but I am not sure. BIN's will be higher than that but will sell at a slower rate.
The "Buntline Special" and the "Sharps Rifle" are also appear to be common-minted silver art bars. These 2 bars were minted in 1973 by the Belford Mint and they will more than likely fetch the same winning bids of about the same as the Hamilton Mint and Mother-Lode mint bars. BIN's will be higher than that but will sell at a slower rate.
The 1971 "One Silver Eagle" was minted by the Foster Mint and those usually will fetch a slightly higher premium on ebay than the Mother-Lode and Hamilton Mint bars. I will give a ebay winning bid range of between $6 to $10 over spot silver on those with BIN's beng slightly higher than that.
The 1972 Washington Mint "Buffalo Nickel" silver art bar will probably fetch a low premium as well because these appear to be common-minted and I have not seen many sell for a large premium over spot. I will put this in the same category as the Mother-Lode and Hamilton Mint bars.
The 2 Silvertowne art bars and the "International Trade Unit" bars are also common-minted and they are low rarity value silver art bars.
The Madison Mint "Bicentennial" and the 1973 Colonial Mint "My Little Chickadee" silver art bars might not fetch a big premium.
The "JPMI" silver art bar with the "Emperor Norton of United States" reverse type was minted by Coin Galleries of San Francisco in 1973. This bar has a mintage of 2500 according to one of my silver art bar price guides. A semi-rare bar but I have not seen a bar like this on ebay and I am not sure what winning bid on ebay it will fetch but I will be conservative here and say anywhere from $5 to $10 over spot silver.
The 1973 Garden State Mint "Shrinking Dollar" silver art bar is a rare bar in that the mintage is only 1000. I will say that this Garden State Mint bar could fetch a winning bid of between $10 to $20 over spot based on a past auction that I saw on this paricular silver art bar. That is a good find in my opinon. Good job on this one.
EDIT: The Garden State Mint "Shrinking Dollar" is the best bar in this group of pictures"
<< <i>
Some more, 2nd pic is with some flipped to show the design.
>>
In these two pictures,
The World Wide Mint Coca-Cola - Roanoke, VA silver art bar will fetch the largest premium. I will say somewhere between $20 to $30 over spot for a winning bid.
The 1973 Switzerland "First National Bank of Chicago" might fetch a winning bid of between $5 - $8 over spot on ebay.
The "Judge" is a Hamilton Mint bar which is a common-minted silver art bar. See my first post on possible winning bid prices.
The "Silver Bullet" art bar is also a common-minted silver art bar and that will probably fetch a winning bid around what a common-minted bar such as a Madison Mint or Hamilton Mint bar would fetch (about $4-$5 over spot).
The "Eagle Landing" silver art bar is a Silvertowne bar and that is a low rarity value bar.
The 1973 Great Lakes Mint "Goddess of Wisdom" bar might have a chance to fetch up to $10 over spot but do not hold your breath on that. I am making a guess on this one but I have seen other Great Lakes Mint art bars sell for between $5 to $10 over spot winning bid on ebay.
The 1973 Belford and Clausey "Pipedreamer" silver art bar might possibly sell for $10 as a guess but I have not followed that bar on ebay and I am not really sure about what it will fetch on ebay.
The National Refiners-Assayers silver bars I am not familiar with.
The best silver art bar of this group is easily the Coca-Cola-Roanoke, VA silver art bar. That is a great find and that carries a large premium over spot since it is not a common-minted Coca-Cola bar. I would consider this particular Coca-Cola silver art bar a rare find. Good job on this.
<< <i>The First Nat'l Bank of Chicago was produced by Credit Suisse (CHI Hallmark) and if marketed correctly should fetch $10-$15 above melt. >>
I was thinking $5-$8 over spot on this bar but I will stand corrected on this. $10-$15 is probably more accurate than my $5-$8 over spot.
Overall, I will say that most of these silver art bars tat you pictured are common-minted bars. Generally speaking, silver art bars that were minted in the 1970's by Mother-Lode, Hamilton, Madison Mint will be common-minted silver art bars with low rarity values. The 1980's Silvertowne silver art bars such as the ones pictured are also common-minted silver art bars with low rarity values. The Colonial Mint bars that were minted in 1973 are also have fairly low rarity values but those rarity values are slightly above the rarity values of the Madison Mint and Hamilton Mint bars. Holiday-themed, Father's Day, Mother's day, and a lot of the Bicentennial theme silver art bars will also have low rarity values and may not fetch much of a premium on ebay.
Most of the Coca-Cola bars and the Garden State Mint bars are much harder to find and those have higher rarity values and will sell for a higher premium over spot on ebay. When people find and buy those for close to spot, then those are very good buys in my opinion. Foster Mint silver bars also tend to fetch higher premiums on ebay depending on the particular Foster Mint art bar.
As for the polishing, I would not. I think they should have that nice patina (tarnish) - as long as they are not ugly. Just my opinion...
It was worth it to spend the time with my daughter this afternoon doing this to see her face light up when she saw that there's more to Silver than just ASE's...it made me wish I only had more unique (unique and cool to me) pieces to show her. She's 11 and just taking note of the Metals world eventhough her old man has been doing it for sometime lol.
<< <i>WOW! Thank you to all, esp. 1970SilverArt for all the in depth comments. That was really educational and I sincerely appreciate the time and effort put forth, by all so far. Feel free to keep it going if anyone else has any more comments. This is exactly what I was hoping for. I am considering creating a spreadsheet so I can keep track of all this valuable info.. >>
I am glad that this was helpful to you. Lately I have been concentrating on finding and buying rare silver art bars locally and at coin shows. I want to state for the record that I have never sold anything on ebay. I am just an ebay buyer of rare silver art bars. When I look for rare silver art bars that are on my silver art bar wish list, I tend to see other more common silver art bar auctions on ebay that catch my eye and I tend to watch what the winning bids on those are. I am on ebay everyday looking (and sometimes bidding) and but there were so many silver art bars minted in the 1970's that it is amazing to me.
Also keep in mind that there are also BIN ebay auctions on some of these silver art bars that are priced about $10-$30 (or more) higher than a winning bid on a certain silver art bar but the problem with BIN's is that they tend to sell a lot more slowly than a regular auction where bidders can bid up the price of the silver art bar.
I ?plan? on keeping most of it, esp. the Engelhards, but if Silver makes another run @ $50, I wont miss out on what I forgot I had this time LOL. Thanks again!
peacockcoins
<< <i>Most were not really that bad taxmad, maybe I shoud've left them original? Either way, it's probably a preference thing with .999.
It was worth it to spend the time with my daughter this afternoon doing this to see her face light up when she saw that there's more to Silver than just ASE's...it made me wish I only had more unique (unique and cool to me) pieces to show her. She's 11 and just taking note of the Metals world eventhough her old man has been doing it for sometime lol. >>
When it comes to bullion, I do not think that cleaning a .999 silver art bar will hurt the rarity value of that particular silver art bar. It will more than likely sell for about the same price as an uncleaned version of the same bar. I have gotton some bars cleaned (dipped) in some cleaner specifically for silver and they came out looking good. I have only cleaned a few silver art bars since I became a serious silver art bar collector 3 years ago. I do not mind some toning on silver art bars but I do not like too much toning to the point where the bar is too dark and not shiny. When I purchase a silver art bar that is too dark with too much toning, then I will take it to my main dealer to get it cleaned (dipped) in some sort of cleaner specifically for silver.
I am glad that your daughter is taking up metals but be very careful because those silver art bars can be very addicting.
<< <i>It was worth it to spend the time with my daughter this afternoon >>
That is the most important part of the story. 30 years from now she will show her kids the bars and remember the day she spent with you...
I doubt you did any harm as they will patina up fairly quick - at least that is my memory from having to polish the silver for Canadian Thanksgiving, then American Thanksgiving then Christmas...
<< <i>Also keep in mind that there are also BIN ebay auctions on some of these silver art bars that are priced about $10-$30 (or more) higher than a winning bid on a certain silver art bar but the problem with BIN's is that they tend to sell a lot more slowly than a regular auction where bidders can bid up the price of the silver art bar.
I ?plan? on keeping most of it, esp. the Engelhards, but if Silver makes another run @ $50, I wont miss out on what I forgot I had this time LOL. Thanks again! >>
Ok. I stand corrected. I was just mentioning what you quoted as a FYI. You should keep them especially the Coca-Cola bar. I have some rare silver art bars that I bought for .999 generic silver premiums that I know will sell for more than $100 on ebay based on past auctions that I saw, however, I love those rare silver art bars too much and I do not plan to sell those. It took me 2-3 years to find them locally for a great price and I do not want to let go of them.
I also paid 2x to 4x spot silver price for particular rare silver art bars on ebay that are nearly impossible to find locally and I do not regret those ebay purchases at all. I buy what I love to collect.
<< <i>Investigate the Coca-Cola art bar. They sell for pretty big bucks on eBay. >>
I agree with this. I have seen Coca-Cola bars sell for several hundreds of dollars on ebay. The largest winning bid that I saw on ebay for a Coca-Cola silver art bar was $752.00.
I see a coin show with your daughter in your future.
(Bring cash).
I knew it would happen.
(Bring cash)
A larger one in the area, usually about 60-70 dealers, is 2 weeks away. Should I let her know about it? LMAO!!!
<< <i>The First Nat'l Bank of Chicago was produced by Credit Suisse (CHI Hallmark) and if marketed correctly should fetch $10-$15 above melt. >>
It's actually produced by Valcambi SA of Balerna, Switzerland. CHI either inside the circle or without a circle is their assayer's mark. Valcambi produced bars for Credit Suisse, Kredit Anstalt, Drovers Bank, Sharps Pixley, and other banks, institutions and events, and now they also market their own bars under their own name (Valcambi Suisse).
If a bar doesn't have some kind of glaring problem or horrid patina/stains, I would absolutely never dip it. Acetone works great for removing PVC but leaves the patina. Just think, there was a time when it was fashionable to scrub, etch, dip and otherwise disfigure numismatic rarities. The same will prove true of art bars and when people finally wise up and appreciate art bars for the rarities and beauties that they are, they will curse those of us today who disfigured these tributes to our culture and history.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>
<< <i>The First Nat'l Bank of Chicago was produced by Credit Suisse (CHI Hallmark) and if marketed correctly should fetch $10-$15 above melt. >>
It's actually produced by Valcambi SA of Balerna, Switzerland. CHI either inside the circle or without a circle is their assayer's mark. Valcambi produced bars for Credit Suisse, Kredit Anstalt, Drovers Bank, Sharps Pixley, and other banks, institutions and events, and now they also market their own bars under their own name (Valcambi Suisse).
If a bar doesn't have some kind of glaring problem or horrid patina/stains, I would absolutely never dip it. Acetone works great for removing PVC but leaves the patina. Just think, there was a time when it was fashionable to scrub, etch, dip and otherwise disfigure numismatic rarities. The same will prove true of art bars and when people finally wise up and appreciate art bars for the rarities and beauties that they are, they will curse those of us today who disfigured these tributes to our culture and history.
I stand corrected...I keep forgetting the the credit suisse bars were produced by Valcambi.
Now of course after fees the seller only reaped about a 10% gain over current Spot. Not bad I guess, but just another reason to not sell on eBay lol.
Search item number 280730600173 to find it.
(Bring cash)
A larger one in the area, usually about 60-70 dealers, is 2 weeks away. Should I let her know about it? LMAO!!!
It's too late, man. You have no choice. She'll find out about it, sooner or later. If sooner, she's going. If later, you're cooked.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The Coca-Cola one, like the one I have ended up going for $54, or Spot + 25%!!!
Now of course after fees the seller only reaped about a 10% gain over current Spot. Not bad I guess, but just another reason to not sell on eBay lol.
Search item number 280730600173 to find it. >>
Hmmm...........Lower winning bid than usual on the particular Coca-Cola. I would think at least $60 for that Coca-Cola bar because that is not a common-minted Coca-Cola silver art bar like Nashville, Atlanta, or Chattanooga. I am going to make a guess here but I think the main reason for this, IMO, lower than expected winning bid is that this is a holiday weekend (Labor Day) and there were probably not many people bidding on that particular Coca-Cola bar on ebay. I do not think that people get on ebay much during a holiday weekend.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>How much premium on a coke bar with the original square plastic holder, stand and paper insert? I have not seen many with these accessories. Thanks >>
I think that will gain an extra premium because, generally speaking, any type of original packaging that came with a silver art bar will fetch an extra premium. However, I am not exactly sure what that extra premium for a Coca-Cola silver art bar with the square plastic holder stand and paper insert is because the previous ebay auctions that I have seen on these types of Coca-Cola bars were Buy-It-Now(BIN) type auctions. BIN auctions on those Coca-Cola bars are usually priced very high to begin with and they either 1.) do not move or 2.) they move very slowly. I am sure that there were previous regular ebay auctions that had winning bids on these types of Coca-Cola bars with the original packaging but I have not paid too much attention as to how much they fetched in terms of a regular winning bid. I think that the only Coca-Cola bars that I have seen with the original holder and paper insert are the Chattanooga and the Atlanta bars.
"coke" silver bar ........... high $224. low $42
coca cola silver bar.........high $715 low $48
<< <i>Selling price in eBay for coke bars depend on how they are listed..here are the high & low bids on completed auctions within the last 10 days.
"coke" silver bar ........... high $224. low $42
coca cola silver bar.........high $715 low $48 >>
OPA,
Are you also counting the BIN auctions that were completed (i.e. sold at that BIN price) during that 10 day period? If so, then that would make sense because I think that there was a Terra Haute Coca-Cola silver art bar that sold for around $700+ during that 10-day period that you mentioned but I could be wrong on that. I do agree that the price depends on how they were listed.
<< <i>
<< <i>Selling price in eBay for coke bars depend on how they are listed..here are the high & low bids on completed auctions within the last 10 days.
"coke" silver bar ........... high $224. low $42
coca cola silver bar.........high $715 low $48 >>
OPA,
Are you also counting the BIN auctions that were completed (i.e. sold at that BIN price) during that 10 day period? If so, then that would make sense because I think that there was a Terra Haute Coca-Cola silver art bar that sold for around $700+ during that 10-day period that you mentioned but I could be wrong on that. I do agree that the price depends on how they were listed. >>
I consider a successful BIN a completed auction.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Selling price in eBay for coke bars depend on how they are listed..here are the high & low bids on completed auctions within the last 10 days.
"coke" silver bar ........... high $224. low $42
coca cola silver bar.........high $715 low $48 >>
OPA,
Are you also counting the BIN auctions that were completed (i.e. sold at that BIN price) during that 10 day period? If so, then that would make sense because I think that there was a Terra Haute Coca-Cola silver art bar that sold for around $700+ during that 10-day period that you mentioned but I could be wrong on that. I do agree that the price depends on how they were listed. >>
I consider a successful BIN a completed auction. >>
Ok. That makes sense to me. In the past, I was looking at just winning bid prices to get a rough idea of true worth of a certain Coca-Cola silver art bar. I used to not look at BIN prices because I looked at some of those BIN prices and thought that some of them were priced too high to sell at that point. Then again that would depend on the Coca-Cola bar. For example, I would expect that a Frederick, Maryland Coca-Cola bar that has a BIN price of $600 would sell but at the same time, I would not expect to see a much more common Chattanooga Coca-Cola bar sell for a BIN price of $100 based on past ebay regular auction winning bids that I have seen.
A lot of the ebay BIN prices that I have seen for the more common-minted and semi-rare Coca-Cola silver art bars are way above the average ebay winning bid price for that particular Coca-Cola bar and I stopped looking at those BINs because I did not think that they would sell at those high BIN prices.
I will admit that I do not track the prices on every Coca-Cola ebay auction because there are too many of them to keep up with and as a result, I might have missed a lot of BIN auctions that were actually completed at that price level. I just track prices on certain Coca-Cola silver art bars that interest me.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>I just looked at ebay completed items and there was one with the case and advertisement paper, but no stand went for $63. So not much premium for it. If I sold the bar alone it would bring around the same amount. I would think having the original packaging would be worth a little bit more. I don't see them often at all. Not a biggie I bought it cheap a few years ago just because it was all original. >>
I expect that Chattanooga and Atlanta Coca-Cola bars (without original packaging) will fetch winning bids of between $53-$58 based on current spot of $43.25. With the completed ebay listing (with case and advisement paper) of $63, then I would consider that in-line with what I was expecting. Some of past winning auction bids of the Chattanooga and Atlanta Coca-Cola bars without original case and advertisement papers that I have seen have usually fetched winning bids of between $10-$15 over spot (lowest I saw of $7 over spot on some occasions). So an extra $5 premium above the typical winning bid on an Atlanta or a Chattanooga Coca-Cola art bar sounds about right to me.
Since Chattanooga, Nashville, Atlanta, and Louisvlle are the most common-minted Coca-Cola silver art bars that are found on ebay (based on original mintage numbers), they will bring in the lowest premiums over spot (typically winning bids between $7-$15 over spot silver based on what I have seen).