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What is the United States "end game" strategy?
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
I have been thinking about this recently. When you or I take out a loan for a home, car, or boat.....we usually have very clear and well defined goals. We service our debt until it is paid off, and in the process, we aquire assets. When the U.S. takes out loans, it simply blows the cash with very little to show for it. It would be similar to us taking out a multitude of loans to eat out every night, hit a bar, and then a casino on the way home.
The U.S. debt is continually rising....our hard assets are not. It makes me wonder just what our master plan is. Do we think we can just go on borrowing and racking up debt forever? Can/will the rest of the world shut down the USD at some point? What happens then? Will we form a new metals backed currency?
In my opinion, fiat currencies are the largest ponzi scheme in human existence. They have constantly failed in the world's history, and we are actually witnessing the failures right now here and in Europe. Its time to return to accountability. Its time to return to a precious metals backed system. No more JPM or the Goldman to manipulate the marketplace. You cannot just create wealth from thin air.....either you have it, or you dont have it. Why should we....the "commoners" allow a select group of very smart individuals to have the ability to determine out financial outcomes? There are too many games being played on Wall street......and in the big picture, those people contribute almost nothing to society while lining their pockets at our expense. Enough is enough. Its time to end the failed 40 year experiment known as the USD. Its time for the government to.....BY LAW.....balance all budgets with a small minimum yearly surplus. The new rule is if congress cant balance a budget, they are ALL FIRED and we have some fresh talent come in. There needs to be some accountability! In the current system, there is none.
The U.S. debt is continually rising....our hard assets are not. It makes me wonder just what our master plan is. Do we think we can just go on borrowing and racking up debt forever? Can/will the rest of the world shut down the USD at some point? What happens then? Will we form a new metals backed currency?
In my opinion, fiat currencies are the largest ponzi scheme in human existence. They have constantly failed in the world's history, and we are actually witnessing the failures right now here and in Europe. Its time to return to accountability. Its time to return to a precious metals backed system. No more JPM or the Goldman to manipulate the marketplace. You cannot just create wealth from thin air.....either you have it, or you dont have it. Why should we....the "commoners" allow a select group of very smart individuals to have the ability to determine out financial outcomes? There are too many games being played on Wall street......and in the big picture, those people contribute almost nothing to society while lining their pockets at our expense. Enough is enough. Its time to end the failed 40 year experiment known as the USD. Its time for the government to.....BY LAW.....balance all budgets with a small minimum yearly surplus. The new rule is if congress cant balance a budget, they are ALL FIRED and we have some fresh talent come in. There needs to be some accountability! In the current system, there is none.
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Jim
We don't need more laws and regulations. A balanced budget amendment would be fine, because it would then be part of the Constitution. Along those lines we need to drastically simplify the gazillions of laws that we already have and then start enforcing them like we mean it.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>It makes me wonder just what our master plan is. Do we think we can just go on borrowing and racking up debt forever? Can/will the rest of the world shut down the USD at some point? What happens then? Will we form a new metals backed currency? >>
Plan, there are no plans. It's all about politicians who only care about being elected and the voters who enable them.
Thanks
MANY positive BST Transactions
<< <i> This may be a stupid question, but if we were to go back to the metal backed currency, how will that effect the price of gold and silver? will they "peg" the prices? >>
When the dollar was backed by gold and silver their prices were fairly low and stable. It was only upon the undoing of the backing that that prices skyrocketed.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Next time people support some s.o.b in the white house lobbing a few missles into a country that hasn't posed any threat to us, please back up your own b/s with your own capital and leave the rest of us out of it. Between that and the near cradle to grave programs that have been formed here what the heck do people think the future is going to be?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
.
Nothing else matters to them. The answer is severe term limits. Now, how can we get the politicians to vote to limit themselves.......?
That's just the revenue side. We could pass a law and raise SS to age 75 which would wipe out untold Trillions.
It's not a dire as it seems.
some brief history to glance through may be the reasons for Nixon going off the gold standard, and also a term called the Triffin dilemma.
the only way that USA would be "shut down" would be taking away it's reserve currency status. i do not think there will ever be a gold backed currency (at least in USD). China has pushed for SDR's to be a possible exchange for USD as the reserve currency (USD is in the basket BTW). i don't think this will happen either, but it does raise another red (pun intended) flag.
no end game, no gold standard
<< <i>The US has assets far in excess of our debts it it should ever come to that. Think of all the islands we own or control that could be sold. We could sell off Alaska and Hawaii for Trillions and retreat back the the Continental US. Heck, we could sell California. We could sell the USPS, Amtrak. We could start charging for our Military protection. We could charge every illegal $10K/head and grant them a Green Card.
That's just the revenue side. We could pass a law and raise SS to age 75 which would wipe out untold Trillions.
It's not a dire as it seems. >>
Do you consider your left arm an asset? How about one of your big toes? I dont see the states as "assets" because they are sovereign. Does the United States government really own Florida? Im not sure....just an honest question. Either way, if you had a personal debt.....and selling a kidney was perfectly legal....I very much doubt you would call it a true asset. Navy ships, fighter planes, gold bullion reserves, federal buildings......those are all examples of assets that this government owns. I dont think that we have assets in excess of our current debts.
This vid is a couple years old, but explains what im talking about.
We are at a peculiar nexus in that the media/gov is operating with the moral iconography of the post WWII with their sales pitches to share the sacrifice. We are hardwired to share because that's what the pre-boomer population did to get through the depression so the mentality of helping each other out is in our moral make up as a country. With the recent debates about the budget, there is a lot of talk about sharing the sacrifice but I don't see any of our leadership sacrificing a thing.
The congressmen are pleased to sacrifice social security but wouldn't even consider lessening the privlege or access of our leadership to the American pie and that is emblematic of where we find ourselves...privlege is for those that can get it. The only people that are going to be doing any sacrifice here are the people that can't get away from getting picked to actually do the sacrificing.
The media is overrun with mindless huffpo tools that beat the drum for the "let's give them your money" left and the right is well dug in and will not reneg on their constituency less they get bucked off on the next go-round. Our political field has become very polarized and they have dragged the public into their spheres of influence to where we are more and more divided than we have been in recent history while the bankers, credit card companies and retailers pluck every dollar they can from those that are too lazy, stupid, or simply unable to get out of the way. Divide and conquer is not an empty game strategy, it does work but for whom?
It's a stalemate; unable to fund all the ngo's, community activist groups, wars, and hoards of leeches that have not and never will add anything to our collective prosperity, and unable to move forward to a more sensible strategy to successfully sustain the country and its people. So, what the heck did you expect? Better take care that you or your children are not one of those chosen to do the sacrificing.
That's the end game, don't be one of those sacrificed to further someone elses ideology.
Hey, buddy, can you spare a dime?
(Edited for poor grammar)
<< <i>The US has assets far in excess of our debts it it should ever come to that. Think of all the islands we own or control that could be sold. We could sell off Alaska and Hawaii for Trillions and retreat back the the Continental US. Heck, we could sell California. We could sell the USPS, Amtrak. We could start charging for our Military protection. We could charge every illegal $10K/head and grant them a Green Card.
That's just the revenue side. We could pass a law and raise SS to age 75 which would wipe out untold Trillions.
It's not a dire as it seems. >>
There are some germs of truth scattered about in this post. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>The US has assets far in excess of our debts it it should ever come to that. Think of all the islands we own or control that could be sold. We could sell off Alaska and Hawaii for Trillions and retreat back the the Continental US. Heck, we could sell California. We could sell the USPS, Amtrak. We could start charging for our Military protection. We could charge every illegal $10K/head and grant them a Green Card.
That's just the revenue side. We could pass a law and raise SS to age 75 which would wipe out untold Trillions.
It's not a dire as it seems. >>
There are some germs of truth scattered about in this post. MJ >>
Can a state be sold?
I would keep lending you money, gecko, if you had demonstrated earning power and a lot of assets.
The USA has earning power, don't think it doesn't, and uncountable monetizable assets.
The country has the equivalent a cold and acne right now, In the past we've beaten the flu, cancer, the plague, tuberculosis, etc.
IMO, much of "the trouble" is hyperbole
things will get better, and it wont happen by whining. I find all the defeatist thinking here and in the media woeful and shameful.
this recession has been and still is the best investing opportunity of our lifetimes, imo, and savvy folks are thriving.
there's a concept in population ecology called "selection event" and it's a huge opportunity for the "fittest".
too bad about those selected against by their own choices or specific circumstance. thems the breaks!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>can a state be sold? >>
why not? Heck, sell California (which would be the 6th largest country by GDP) and I bet we could cover 1/2 our debt. They go their own way anyway.
Ironically we would probably get paid in our own currency, Tbills, and gold.
Can you imagine, the Union was preserved in the Civil War, grew and prospered, and then we had a garage sale???
I know you're joking. If not, I'm embarassed for you.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>things will get better, and it wont happen by whining. >>
keeping heads buried in the sand won't make it better either. Heeding the warnings of the "alarmists" is our only chance.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
One says, "oh woe, we are in literal hell, with our bodies burning in fire and brimstone!!" to which a rational mind replies, "oh, that's metaphor, surely things aren't THAT bad?"
to which the first says, "oh, so you think everything is PERFECT, that we're living in a Heaven of 24/7 pleasure?? What drug are you ON?"
to which the rational mind patiently replies, "No, I didn't say that either, I said that certain people overstate their case to make a point, to support their contention that things are generally troublesome" to which the reply is "oh so says mister rainbows and unicorns!"
yeah, that's constructive.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Box of 20
Maybe we can just close them? That should save some money.
When I am taken for a fool in order to pay for someone else's excesses, someone else's negligence, someone else's sloth and laziness - that's where I draw the line. The politicians run interference for these types and cast them as "unfortunates".
It is this phenomenon that truly hurts the real disadvantaged and the real unfortunates, and it is this that I object to most when I am asked/coerced/forced to "share the wealth".
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>that's ridiculous and will never, ever, ever happen.
Can you imagine, the Union was preserved in the Civil War, grew and prospered, and then we had a garage sale???
I know you're joking. If not, I'm embarassed for you. >>
There is a Russian Strategist break up of US who firmly believes the US will collapse and break up into 6 different countries; North East, South East, Heartland, West , Hawaii, and Alaska. Much like how the Soviet Union broke up. If you think about it, if we broke up along those lines, much of the fighting we do today amongst ourselves would no longer happen.
Maybe preserving the Union at the cost of 1M lives wasn't historically the best course of action. Slavery would have ended at some point anyway. The South still to this day hates the North. We really have little in common.
It is this phenomenon that truly hurts the real disadvantaged and the real unfortunates, and it is this that I object to most when I am asked/coerced/forced to "share the wealth".
Charity is no long a private institution. It was made a public institution by our government decades ago and it can't be sustained by public funding. Perhaps why we borrow 40% of every dollar the Federal Government spends. As Margaret Thatcher said "Eventually you run out of other people's money".
Box of 20
False. "the south" and "the north" are abstractions. Surely some PEOPLE harbor thoughts. Just as surely, their "reality" is a product of their thoughts and actions
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>The South still to this day hates the North
False. "the south" and "the north" are abstractions. Surely some PEOPLE harbor thoughts. Just as surely, their "reality" is a product of their thoughts and actions >>
Ever been in the South? Every time I go people call me "Yankee".
Every military platoon always has one "Jersey", one "Yankee", one "Reb", one "Tex".
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The US has assets far in excess of our debts it it should ever come to that. Think of all the islands we own or control that could be sold. We could sell off Alaska and Hawaii for Trillions and retreat back the the Continental US. Heck, we could sell California. We could sell the USPS, Amtrak. We could start charging for our Military protection. We could charge every illegal $10K/head and grant them a Green Card.
That's just the revenue side. We could pass a law and raise SS to age 75 which would wipe out untold Trillions.
It's not a dire as it seems. >>
There are some germs of truth scattered about in this post. MJ >>
Can a state be sold? >>
Probably not the entire state, but the Feds do own a large portion of the state. Play around with this website and see the vast expanses of land that the G does own.
http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Let me add, the government could also auction off 10 1933 Double Eagles that they now own as well. >>
We could develop our own resources in Alaska. How many people would be put to work in Anwar. If you sold Alaska how long do you think a new owner would wait to drill.
While I'm on a roll, it's really stupid to give Brazil $2 billion and leases to dill the same place in the Gulf of Mexico we won't let American companies drill.
Baley....in a completely free, unmanipulated population...you are exactly correct. But in the real world.....in an era of socialist thinking and reformation.....your concept has no bearing at all. Redistribution of wealth guarantees this.
"But in the real world.....in an era of socialist thinking and reformation.....your concept has no bearing at all."
Methinks that yes, you can artificially support a population be it honey bees or whatever living population but it comes at a great expense to others in the same ecotone. It is kind of like an algae bloom from too much fertilier runoff; the population of algae flourishes on the additional nutrients but at the expense of the dissolved oxygen in the water. Eventually, and all the fish in the water kill off because of depleated oxygen. After a while, the concentration of fertilizer dissipates with sunlight and agitation and new fresh water inflows and then the algae bloom goes back to the normal population, the dissolved oxygen returns to a normal concentration and the fish begin to repopulate. It is no different for those working the public dole, ultimately the population will grow larger than the available dole and the bloom will dissipate.
I don't disagree with Bailey and appears that the dolees seem to be greatly outpacing the contributors. It does appear that we are looking at a "selection event" here. The fittest, those best prepared, will survive this and hopefully they will have enough compassion to provide sufficient aid to sustain the infirm and elderly; the others living off of the system will be selected against and there's not much that can be done about it except to get them back into the production system. If they can't be brought back into the system then that population will likely dissipate.
The end goal is a world statist system.
What's in the way? The US with it's free(er) markets and implied freedom guaranteed by a couple of well guarded documents that give its citizens the belief and courage they can self-govern and have self worth. The collectivists' worst nightmare.
The bankrupting of America is being accomplished by overburdening the US with gobs of entitlement debt & wars to disintegrate her so as to rebuild her into a new over-regulated nation-state and to meld it with the awaiting collective world gov't where elitists can "persuade" the sheeple how to live, think and remain dreamless through political correctness aka social Marxism.
Once the world's sheeple are globally governed then the "social engineers" can "manage" the 6 billion people down to a more manageable 2 billion for sake of the environment.
It sounds spooky and conspiratorial but it's not what we think it's what "they" think, the Open Society's, CFR's of the world.
Further proof that they know that we know they have failed us miserably:
Homeland Security: "White middle-class Americans are the most likely terrorists"
The same group that is stocking up on PMs is the one that the government fears most!
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Camelot
Please send me a copy of the letter that you sent to your local and state Congressmen. It will save me time as opposed to creating my own.
Ranting on an internet chat board won't help get your message to the pols, unless of course, they happen to be into PMs. But I think not.
1. To be elected President, one was expected to have served honorably in the military
2. Instead of a gallant few who volunteer for military careers, back then, it was
a shared sacrifice and all able bodied men were required to serve 2 years. It was
a sacred right of passage for being a citizen of this Country.
3. All people in the Nation paid income taxes, it was a shared sacrifice.
4. The well to do and corporations paid a significantly larger percentage in taxes
because they had the wealth to do it.
5. The Party out of power, was the loyal opposition, rather then a Party of obstruction and NO.
6. Our currency was backed by tangible assets and the greenback was rock solid, throughout the entire world.
7. Citizens believed what the Government told them. Often, in those days, it was the truth.
8. We all knew that the future was bright and everything would get better for working people.
9. The Nation was the Worlds greatest lender then and not the worlds greatest creditor.
10. We were proud to be Americans and feared only the wrath of God.
11. This Nation was self sufficient in all things and we were the industrial engine of the world
How things have changes over six decades.
Camelot
<< <i> How things have changes over six decades. >>
People changed. Unchecked greed and corruption with a spoonful of globalization. Rome is burning.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Do the math. Is it time?
It is not as much the duration, as the quality of life, of a Nation's people. Rome fell
because the Empire got over extended, ran out of money and eventually had to hire
barbarians to serve in the Legion as the citizens no longer were willing to serve. A number
of incompetent and mad Ceasars were in command and detroyed what was left of
the administrative base of government and any measure of economic stability. Money
was debased from silver, to copper with silver wash on it. Gresham's Law was in full
operation, during during the declining years of the Empire. Romes had come a long way from
an agrarian Republic to an all conquering Empire bent on pillage, destruction and
subduing of independent people and regions of the world. Pax Romana became the peace
of the world, enforced by the tread of the Roman Legions.
Camelot