Why no PSA 9.5
pmcollectour
Posts: 1,211 ✭
Why didn't PSA adopt this change to their grading standards. Perhaps a Mint+ card.
Or is there a 9.5 grade ?
Or is there a 9.5 grade ?
0
Comments
It would be very difficult, I believe, to have a fully vetted differentiation of what constitutes GEM MINT versus Pristine for things like corners, surface, etc. I can understanding a centering differential, but that's it.
M
<< <i>There is not a differentiation between Gem Mint and Pristine. [e.g. what Beckett / SGC have as between 9.5 and 10]
It would be very difficult, I believe, to have a fully vetted differentiation of what constitutes GEM MINT versus Pristine for things like corners, surface, etc. I can understanding a centering differential, but that's it.
M >>
There's a 1970 O-Pee-Chee Stanley Cup card out there in PSA 10. It is beautiful, but it has a very noticeable hickey (circle) on the reverse.
I wonder if little things like that could bring a "Gem Mint" card down to a "Mint +" card.
If there is such a huge difference in price realization between a 9 and 10, then I think there could be even more if there were less 10's
on the market, and more 9.5's.
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A card is either MINT or it isn't. Splitting hairs with the half grades
is about making money for more reviews. It makes money for grading
companies, dealers, and costs collectors more money in the end to
add to their collection.
My scale would be:
10 = Mint
9 = NM/MT
8 = NM
7 = EX-MT
6 = EX
5 = VG-EX
4 = VG
3 = poor
2 = fair
1 = rag or filler
<< <i>
My scale would be:
10 = Mint
9 = NM/MT
8 = NM
7 = EX-MT
6 = EX
5 = VG-EX
4 = VG
3 = poor
2 = fair
1 = rag or filler >>
I agree with this as well. However, I would reverse Fair & Poor, making Poor right above Filler. Creases allowed on 5 and below, mostly depedent on how it affects the overall card appearance.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
I could even see one day possibly multiple grades in between 9 and 10...with the flip designating that it is a "new" PSA 10 or words to that effect.
<< <i>in my opinion, there should hardly be any psa 10 cards. they should have made that grade very difficult to achieve. also, there should be very limited 9's >>
Beckett Grading Services did this years ago with their BGS Pristine grade and the "Perfect 10". They were hard to come by and the prices reflected that. There have been more and more "tens" handed out lately. The prices are beginning to reflect that as well.
As for PSA 9.5's...it'll still come down to a person's individual taste in a PSA 10 and PSA 9.5. There are many unknowns that can hurt the customer. Will there be a new flip? Will there be subgrades now? Will the new PSA 10 devalue the old PSA 10's? I don't believe it's worth the trouble.
When I saw PSA added the "half" grade I assumed it would be included between all the grades. Consistency is good!
Doesn't help or hurt me either way, 9's in what I collect are almost always out of my price range
Have fun collecting!
Joe
The heavy hitters were afraid the 9.5 would ruin the value of their 9's and make their 10's less valuabe, for the registry and resale.
Big time dealers and collectors basically told PSA if they did a 9.5 grade they were walking away.
<< <i>Big time dealers and collectors basically told PSA if they did a 9.5 grade they were walking away. >>
As they should have! If I was to guess, I'd imagine that... under review... there would be a helluva lot more existing 10's downgraded to 9.5 then there would be existing 9's upgraded to 9.5.
Not to mention, the effect that has on the value of existing 10 cards. Would those previously graded 10 be viewed by the hobby, right or wrong, as being of lesser stature, and therefore, value? A 10 is a 10, in most peoples eyes, so who in their right mind would want to pay to have a card reviewed when the only real change possible is that the overall card grade is reduced?
So, it's adds confusion to the hobby, can potentially have a more negative than positive effect on the market value of "high grade" collectibles, and because of the "only downgrade" review possibility on 10's... there is really not true financial incentive to make the change... so PSA got it right, leave the 9's and 10's as is.
Where exactly are the big time dealers and collectors going to go? I don't think anyone with a large inventory of PSA cards is going to spend the money (or take the risk of losing money) on such a minor possibility that they will be hurt by the change.
Who in their right mind is going to review a 10? A 10 IS a 10. Each potential sale will have to be looked at case by case, just the way it is now.
How can 9.5 make BOTH 9's and 10's less valuable? 9's aren't necessarily going to have less value, they now have an extra chance for an upgrade. Not quite good enough for a 10, but maybe a bump to a 9.5. Smart sellers will make more money.
As far as confusion in the hobby I think this increases it. There is a half grade between ALL the other grades. All one has to do is read the threads to be confused about grading. How many times have you seen the same card get different grades on different occasions, not only crossovers but within the same grading company.
This might actually reduce confusion in the hobby.
My company often bows to pressure from large customers and usually wishes they didn't.
I am not a big time dealer or collector and I am staying with PSA either way.
Have fun collecting
Joe
<< <i>Couple of questions;
Where exactly are the big time dealers and collectors going to go? I don't think anyone with a large inventory of PSA cards is going to spend the money (or take the risk of losing money) on such a minor possibility that they will be hurt by the change.
Who in their right mind is going to review a 10? A 10 IS a 10. Each potential sale will have to be looked at case by case, just the way it is now.
How can 9.5 make BOTH 9's and 10's less valuable? 9's aren't necessarily going to have less value, they now have an extra chance for an upgrade. Not quite good enough for a 10, but maybe a bump to a 9.5. Smart sellers will make more money.
As far as confusion in the hobby I think this increases it. There is a half grade between ALL the other grades. All one has to do is read the threads to be confused about grading. How many times have you seen the same card get different grades on different occasions, not only crossovers but within the same grading company.
This might actually reduce confusion in the hobby.
My company often bows to pressure from large customers and usually wishes they didn't.
I am not a big time dealer or collector and I am staying with PSA either way.
Have fun collecting
Joe >>
In some cases PSA 9 is the highest grade available, if a couple of PSA 9.5's were graded then the 10 or so 9's would lose value as no longer being the highest graded available. Big time set registry guys would go after the highest graded cards available and thus the PSA 9s would lose interest from the biggest money guys in the sets.
In terms of PSA 10's, if a set has 2 or 3 10's possible in it but say 10 9.5's available now, the guys with the 10's could be out pointed in GPA by people filling in 9.5's into their sets. It would cause people with highest GPA's available to go back and buy the same cards in higher grades if they wanted to keep their top spots.
9.5's would also undercut 10 prices in some sets when there are lots of both as the 9.5 may become such a more afordable alternative that their are less people willing to pay the difference between 9 and 10 prices and just go for PSA 9.5's.
It has happened in some intent to PSA 9 prices in some sets I follow. People wait until a good PSA 8.5 comes around and buys it. Two PSA 8.5's equal the same GPA as a PSA 8 and a PSA 9.
Now some of these arguments are just paranoid theories but still set guys who spent in some cases hundreds of thousands or millions on their sets were not amused.
Most of the set collectors just threatened to cash out and flood the market with their cards thus depressing their values even more which of course made the dealers not too happy as well.
<< <i>
<< <i>Couple of questions;
Where exactly are the big time dealers and collectors going to go? I don't think anyone with a large inventory of PSA cards is going to spend the money (or take the risk of losing money) on such a minor possibility that they will be hurt by the change.
Who in their right mind is going to review a 10? A 10 IS a 10. Each potential sale will have to be looked at case by case, just the way it is now.
How can 9.5 make BOTH 9's and 10's less valuable? 9's aren't necessarily going to have less value, they now have an extra chance for an upgrade. Not quite good enough for a 10, but maybe a bump to a 9.5. Smart sellers will make more money.
As far as confusion in the hobby I think this increases it. There is a half grade between ALL the other grades. All one has to do is read the threads to be confused about grading. How many times have you seen the same card get different grades on different occasions, not only crossovers but within the same grading company.
This might actually reduce confusion in the hobby.
My company often bows to pressure from large customers and usually wishes they didn't.
I am not a big time dealer or collector and I am staying with PSA either way.
Have fun collecting
Joe >>
In some cases PSA 9 is the highest grade available, if a couple of PSA 9.5's were graded then the 10 or so 9's would lose value as no longer being the highest graded available. Big time set registry guys would go after the highest graded cards available and thus the PSA 9s would lose interest from the biggest money guys in the sets.
In terms of PSA 10's, if a set has 2 or 3 10's possible in it but say 10 9.5's available now, the guys with the 10's could be out pointed in GPA by people filling in 9.5's into their sets. It would cause people with highest GPA's available to go back and buy the same cards in higher grades if they wanted to keep their top spots.
9.5's would also undercut 10 prices in some sets when there are lots of both as the 9.5 may become such a more afordable alternative that their are less people willing to pay the difference between 9 and 10 prices and just go for PSA 9.5's.
It has happened in some intent to PSA 9 prices in some sets I follow. People wait until a good PSA 8.5 comes around and buys it. Two PSA 8.5's equal the same GPA as a PSA 8 and a PSA 9.
Now some of these arguments are just paranoid theories but still set guys who spent in some cases hundreds of thousands or millions on their sets were not amused.
Most of the set collectors just threatened to cash out and flood the market with their cards thus depressing their values even more which of course made the dealers not too happy as well. >>
I completely agree. I'm not a big dealer or a high roller collector, but honestly if PSA rolls out a 9.5 grade,
I'm pretty sure I'd be exiting the graded card market. I'd cash in my slabs and just work on building raw
sets. My collection is roughly a 50/50 split of raw vs. graded as it is, but I could see me going 100% raw.
Didn't Mr. Mint coin the phrase 'Gem Mint' in the early to mid 1980's when he made several of his major finds
in the hobby? I never heard of the term before he came into the hobby. He seemed to really use the Gem Mint
description a lot when he made his '52 Topps high numbers find, with all the so-called gem mint Mickey Mantles.
I remember his full page ads in the SCD selling his GEM MINT '52 Topps cards.
So a few years later around 1989 or so SBC (which later became SGC) had the gem mint grade within their grading scale. I believe Alan Hagar
might have created the scale and sold the rights to future grading companies, including PSA. I'm not 100% sure on my statement here. Going from memory....
Can anyone here corroborate my story on where the term 'Gem Mint' originated from?