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Return of the Gold Standard as world order unravels

stevekstevek Posts: 28,966 ✭✭✭✭✭
Return of the Gold Standard as world order unravels

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
9:28PM BST 14 Jul 2011

As the twin pillars of international monetary system threaten to come tumbling down in unison, gold has reclaimed its ancient status as the anchor of stability. The spot price surged to an all-time high of $1,594 an ounce in London, lifting silver to $39 in its train.

On one side of the Atlantic, the eurozone debt crisis has spread to the countries that may be too big to save - Spain and Italy - though RBS thinks a €3.5 trillion rescue fund would ensure survival of Europe's currency union.

On the other side, the recovery has sputtered out and the printing presses are being oiled again. Brinkmanship between the Congress and the White House over the US debt ceiling has compelled Moody's to warn of a "very small but rising risk" that the world's paramount power may default within two weeks. "The unthinkable is now thinkable," said Ross Norman, director of thebulliondesk.com.

Fed chair Ben Bernanke confessed to Congress that growth has failed to gain traction. "Deflationary risks might re-emerge, implying a need for additional policy support," he said.

The bar to QE3 - yet more bond purchases - is even lower than markets had thought. The new intake of hard-money men on the voting committee has not shifted Fed thinking, despite global anger at dollar debasement under QE2.

Fuelling the blaze, the emerging powers of Asia are almost all running uber-loose monetary policies. Most have negative real interest rates that push citizens out of bank accounts and into gold, or property. China is an arch-inflater. Prices are rising at 6.4pc, yet the one-year deposit rate is just 3.5pc. India's central bank is far behind the curve.

"It is very scary: the flight to gold is accelerating at a faster and faster speed," said Peter Hambro, chairman of Britain's biggest pure gold listing Petropavlovsk.

"One of the big US banks texted me today to say that if QE3 actually happens, we could see gold at $5,000 and silver at $1,000. I feel terribly sorry for anybody on fixed incomes tied to a fiat currency because they are not going to be able to buy things with that paper money."

China, Russia, Brazil, India, the Mid-East petro-powers have diversified their $7 trillion reserves into euros over the last decade to limit dollar exposure. As Europe's monetary union itself faces an existential crisis, there is no other safe-haven currency able to absorb the flows. The Swiss franc, Canada's loonie, the Aussie, and Korea's won are too small.

"There is no depth of market in these other currencies, so gold is the obvious play," said Neil Mellor from BNY Mellon. Western central banks (though not the US, Germany, or Italy) sold much of their gold at the depths of the bear market a decade ago. The Bank of England wins the booby prize for selling into the bottom at €254 an ounce on Gordon Brown's orders in 1999. But Russia, China, India, the Gulf states, the Philippines, and Kazakhstan have been buying.

China is coy, revealing purchases with a long delay. It has admitted to doubling its gold reserves to 1,054 tonnes or $54bn. This is just a tiny sliver of its $3.2 trillion reserves. China's Chamber of Commerce said this should be raised eightfold to 8,000 tonnes.

Xia Bin, an adviser to China's central bank, said in June that the country's reserve strategy needs an "urgent" overhaul. Instead of buying paper IOU's from a prostrate West, China should invest in strategic assets and accumulate gold by "buying the dips".

Step by step, the world is edging towards a revived Gold Standard as it becomes clearer that Japan and the West have reached debt saturation. World Bank chief Robert Zoellick said it was time to "consider employing gold as an international reference point." The Swiss parliament is to hold hearings on a parallel "Gold Franc". Utah has recognised gold as legal tender for tax payments.

A new Gold Standard would probably be based on a variant of the 'Bancor' proposed by Keynes in the late 1940s. This was a basket of 30 commodities intended to be less deflationary than pure gold, which had compounded in the Great Depression. The idea was revived by China's central bank chief Zhou Xiaochuan two years ago as a way of curbing the "credit-based" excess.

Mr Bernanke himself was grilled by Congress this week on the role of gold. Why do people by gold? "As protection against of what we call tail risks: really, really bad outcomes," he replied.

Indeed.

Comments

  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
    << Utah has recognised gold as legal tender for tax payments>>
    I was unaware of this, gold is money?
    Ben said it wasn't, only paper is real money, right?
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Nope, only gold is money. So, the idea of weaving gold thread into our paper fiat is such a bad idea? But wait, it wouldn't be fiat then, it would actually have a real world value that couldn't be manipulated by the banksters and...the gov couldn't just make a bunch of currency without having some gold to put into it; such a bad idea?
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    No link?
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's see if I can post a working link for an interesting article....

    Gold Standard Return
    ----- kj
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When all the dust settles, when the great 'purge' of the world's financial system happens, there is no doubt in my mind, that we will be on some sort of Gold standard, so this mess will never happen again.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the readers of this board can look forward to many enjoyable decades of sitting in our easy chairs with our wireless laptops, sipping good coffee and reading about the perpetual

    END OF THE WORLD CRISIS TODAY!!

    "world order unravels" indeed, with such hyperbole it's obvious THE MEDIA has no idea what real chaos looks like if they think world order is unraveling today or next week.

    Any piece of matter, energy, work, or data can be "money". The idea that gold is the only money is ludicrous, though to quote the trite line is natural, here on this forum, where we all love our piles of precious, gollum gollum image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    Robert Zoellick (mentioned in the article) had begun mentioning this as early as a year ago, that i know of.

    a 5:1 gold silver ratio????????????? reads more like a silver standard coming, musta been a typoimage

    i agree with Baley about gold not being the "only" money. everything money is fungible.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OnlyGoldisMoney leaves no doubt to how he feels on the subject. I was hoping he would show upimage

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sure, everything has a value, and thus could be argued that it can be used for some form of money. Land, wheat, garden produce, ammunition, tools, tobacco, conch shells and on and on. Including paper money. Including data bits. It is all worth what someone is willing to give or exchange for it.

    However, gold and silver are the most frequently referred to because they have a great advantage over everything else. Portable, easily divisible (or available in various sizes), stable - will not spoil, and scarcity (by that I mean it takes much work to find and process), attractive in many forms, and easily recognized.

    So Baley, while I certainly understand the point you are making, I have to say I do not totally agree with it. Although I actually hope it DOES turn out the way you hint.... that we will grow old expecting the world as we know it will be ending... but it never happens. That would be great as far as I am concerned. But.... history shows otherwise. Nations fail, money fails, regimes come to an end, chaos DOES reign at times. Will it happen here in the good old US of A? Well, when I look at history, it seems to happen everywhere eventually. Will it happen in my lifetime? Beats me; I hope not, but I do believe it to be wise to sometimes hedge your bets.

    So, place your bets, invest your money as each sees fit, or ignore everything and put your faith in the current regime if that suits ones fancy. I do know one thing for sure at this point. If many of us on this forum had listened to the 'experts' for the last 10 years, that gold is a barbarous relic, precious metals are a fools bet, the price of the metals will take a precipitous dive, etc... well, I think many individuals bank accounts and net worth will speak to that. Many have profited from the metals.
    ----- kj
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Lost all mine in a boating accident.
  • 1jester1jester Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Lost all mine in a boating accident. >>



    I'm in a similar situation. I just sold all of it to buy property and build a house. So I'm all out.

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, we do seem to move from crisis to crisis. Many do not occur and we then accept the apologists theories as to why not. However, one fine day, one of these apocalyse's will come to pass..... Cheers, RickO
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭
    Gold is money because the U.S. Government says its money......... U.S. Mint makes gold & silver coins and sells them.

    If gold has no value.... then I want the U.S. Mint to sell me 1oz gold coins for face value.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    Currencies are what we trade with ...wether they are shells, fiat money or cows.

    To be money it must also be a store of value in itself.

    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>OnlyGoldisMoney leaves no doubt to how he feels on the subject. I was hoping he would show upimage

    MJ >>



    Hi MJ, this definitely is my kind of thread. image

    It should be interesting at the local coin shop this weekend.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,793 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To be money it must also be a store of value in itself. >>


    Like the dollar bill is? image

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All money standards are unworkable if they are based on building up debt (ie central banks loaning our own money to us). It really doesn't matter what type currency you issue as long as it's issued by our nation for the use of the people. The money supply is expanded and contracted as necessary by the sovereign nation....not a private bank. In that video I posted in the main thread there were numerous examples of nations issuing their own currency and prospering. Centuries ago England prospered using a pair of simple notched measuring sticks to act as currency, in essence a form of real bills.

    Going back to a gold standard doesn't stop banks from cheating on it. The rules need to be changed once again. Private banks shouldn't be allowed to use a fractional reserve ratio. That's a scam right from the get go. There's been plenty of precedent for a currency to work as long as it doesn't automatically put us in debt to issue it. The debt is never retired, so it grows to an unfathomable level as we see today....to the point where paying the interest on it is almost beyond our reach. If we go on a gold standard and put private banks in charge of it again, they will expand and contract just as they have with fiat, whenever it benefits them. Most of the problems with 19th century banking come down to either central banks or private banks cheating on the standard. A return to a gold standard is of no help if all these other areas aren't cleaned up. And even with a gold standard there is still going to be some form of paper transactions (ie paper/plastic/digi-currency or real bills) to cover short term transactions. The lack of a real bills doctrine killed the gold standard from 1920-1933. In essence we left the gold standard behind for good in 1914, first by ignoring it during WW1 to pay for everything, then after the war by not restoring all facets of a fully workable gold standard. Central banks got it just the way they wanted.

    Whatever we do about the current situation, eliminating debt-based monetary systems in the important thing. Those benefit the central bankers, govts, big money, and no one else.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • SpoolySpooly Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭
    I watched the video, I'm not buying the "Government" should issue unbacked money..... Do you really trust Congress to not just print and spend? Remember the government has spent the national debt to this level.


    I support:

    No debt.. the government can't make debt.
    The government must balance the budget every year.
    No more fractional reserve system. Banks have to loan from real cash reserves.
    No more private Federal Reserve Banks.
    Money must be backed with basket of PM and Commodities. (A basket of items so large that no one can "corner the market" and control liquidity.)





    Si vis pacem, para bellum

    In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can live with all that. But that last statement still requires a sort of trust since there's no realistic way to verify that all the "money" being issued is backed. Somewhere is any system
    comes a measure of trust, with verification of some but not all parts. No real way to verify everything.....unless you put me in charge right after I finish my audit of Fort Knox for
    a cool $Million....image

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It happened in 1933, could it happen now?
    I know gold isn't money, it's tradition, Ben made that clear, but ahhh... someone thought it was a good idea
    to confiscate tradition. Of course this order has to be modified, there are no gold
    certificates. Coming to a PO near you, hopefully not.

    image
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gold was money in 1933 and not just tradition. So in order to be able to print unbacked currency in the large quantities needed, the govt needed to sever the public's gold-currency link to expand the money supply. So that was the reason for the gold order. That same reason does not exist today.

    When FDR issued that order in 1933 it wasn't technically legal. When the govt prosecuted a large bullion holder later than year the judge determined that the order was illegal since it was required to be signed by the Treasury Secretary. That was soon rectified. Note that the order in the previous post is signed by then Treasury Secretary William H. Woodin, also noted for being an avid numismatist and co-author of a treatise on US Patterns. Credit is given to Woodin for putting in the exception for "collector gold coins" into the executive order.

    Woodin resigned due to ill-health at the end of 1933 after less than a year in office. He died the following year. Possibly the outcome of the confiscation of the 1933 Saints might have proceeded a bit differently had he lived longer.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,461 ✭✭✭✭✭
    <<Treasury Secretary William H. Woodin, also noted for being an avid numismatist and co-author of a treatise on US Patterns. Credit is given to Woodin for putting in the exception for "collector gold coins" into the executive order. >>

    Very interesting RR, I was not aware he collected coins.
    How was the determination made what was collectable and what was not?
    I have a few pre-33 gold coins, they're all collectable to me.
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
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