However, if I do get a chance to meet up with your group in Charlotte some time, I might have something interesting we could all rip. But I'll keep that for a surprise.
Jim
Looking for 66 and 69 OPC baseball 60's OPC packs 72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs 72 and earlier BB cello
<< <i>The main thing I wanted to try and collect early on was to try and get an unopened box and pack for each year in FB and BB.Jim >>
If you don't mind me asking, for which years DO you have full boxes in BB and FB?
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Thanks for finding this thread. I was actually going to look for it today. Jim has some awesome stuff. When people say "un-opened is drying up" it just goes to show there is still stuff out there. Maybe not the high end that Jim has but it's out there.
Well, we could always consign MacrosB's stash for a group rip! LOL!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Well, we could always consign MacrosB's stash for a group rip! LOL! >>
HOLY CRAP.......that would be one expensive rip.
Jim actually offered up an un-opened case of 84 Topps FB (I think rack or cello) last summer but a few people complained about his price. He kindly took it off the table. That was a shame because it was probably a deal compared to today's prices. Hopefully Jim will offer some other stuff up in the future.
Subscribed, liked and saved. This thread has it all. It is my favorite thread besides the old thread that Muggyman started that I read in its entirety. This is one of the threads that got me started on this unopened binge. So glad I found it, thanks for starting this!
I collect vintage PSA graded SF Giants, Willie Mays, McCovey, Cepeda, Marichal and Perry. And modern players like Buster Posey, Will Clark and Barry Bonds.
Sorry, hate to be a ball buster Jim, but there are a number of your rack packs that are not real. Too bad, since the photo's look quite nice, and though everyone WANTS to believe they are all legitimate, they're not. The '66 and '67 baseball and the '59 Topps and Philly football rack are all backroom reproductions for starters. The header cards are accurate for the issue, but the racks are not Jim. Everyone wants to believe - just like everyone wanted to believe those fake Christmas racks are real - but, sadly, you've been duped!!! I spot several of the others that are suspect, but I'm sure I'll already hear a bucket of who-knows-what from all who were most impressed with your collection. FYI, NO vintage racks had cardboard inserts put in them. I'm betting the scumbag who made these up did that to hide the seals on those packs to make it more difficult to authenticate. I would suggest sending them ALL to Steve Hart so he can weed out the bad ones and ensure you have authentic packs in your collection.
I discused those rack packs a couple of years ago with others on here in regards to the cardboard inserts and Steve Hart has come to my house and looked at all of my packs. All the rack packs not counting the ones with cardboard in them are legitimate (feel free to call Steve if you have doubts about them). And not really wanting to go into the background on the other packs but since you brought them up, they were all bought in an auction around 1981 when there was not the incentive to fake rack packs. The thought is maybe there were left over cello packs that someone had and they might have made these to sell. We will probably never know exactly what the history of those rack packs were. But from the best that Steve could see the cello packs inside the rack packs are sealed and are legitimate.
Jim
Looking for 66 and 69 OPC baseball 60's OPC packs 72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs 72 and earlier BB cello
LuvOldPacks Jim just mentioned that Steve came over to his house and inspect them and felt they were all fine except maybe the ones with the cardboard in them. What more can one ask for. Id feel good about them if I was Jim.
I believe the racks are icing on the cake for Jim, once you get to pages 2,3,4 of this post and see the cases upon cases of goodies and 50/60/70's boxes....
Jim thanks for sharing and please give us more to view, please! BTW when is the group rip planned?
I disagree. There's nothing wrong with people stating objective opinions. People are free to disagree or express discontent without being accused of being jealous.
Jim handled it perfectly. Gave the disagreeing party his opinion. That's the way the game is played. Well done sirs.
<< <i>Sorry, hate to be a ball buster Jim, but there are a number of your rack packs that are not real. Too bad, since the photo's look quite nice, and though everyone WANTS to believe they are all legitimate, they're not. The '66 and '67 baseball and the '59 Topps and Philly football rack are all backroom reproductions for starters. The header cards are accurate for the issue, but the racks are not Jim. Everyone wants to believe - just like everyone wanted to believe those fake Christmas racks are real - but, sadly, you've been duped!!! I spot several of the others that are suspect, but I'm sure I'll already hear a bucket of who-knows-what from all who were most impressed with your collection. FYI, NO vintage racks had cardboard inserts put in them. I'm betting the scumbag who made these up did that to hide the seals on those packs to make it more difficult to authenticate. I would suggest sending them ALL to Steve Hart so he can weed out the bad ones and ensure you have authentic packs in your collection.
>>
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but it would be helpful if you pointed out why you think some are bad. I'll never turn down an opportunity to learn something about vintage unopened. Thanks
<< <i>As long as you feel they're ALL real, then so be it. Enjoy! >>
Your right. I don't know anything about whether a pack is real or not or realize the ones with cardboard didn't come from topps as is. And obviously Steve Hart was fooled when he looked at all my packs in person. I guess if he stops by he will tell you that. But since I have no plans to sell any of this stuff I guess I'm hurting no one but myself. I'm glad you are here to set me straight.
Looking for 66 and 69 OPC baseball 60's OPC packs 72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs 72 and earlier BB cello
Im with you luvoldpacks, what does that dummy Steve Hart know anyway!! Thats why most of us here buy his junk. Just trying to get it off the streets. Macros, most of us here really enjoy looking at your collection. Now hurry up and get some more pics of your "resealed" collection up here for us to see
With all due respect to the OP -- who obviously has an incredible unopened collection -- no one is infallible. If Luv would come on and actually point out discrepancies with known production or something else, then I think it's completely reasonable to discuss it, assuming we can all behave like adults.
Now, if he chooses not to supply facts, then it's safe to just toss his comment out the window. But I feel like he should have the opportunity to elaborate, especially since he already knows how the mob mentality of this board can sometimes be, without people mocking him.
<< <i>And obviously Steve Hart was fooled when he looked at all my packs in person. >>
Unfortunately, Steve would probably be the first person to admit he is not perfect and has been fooled in the past. No one is perfect. I agree with ReggieCleveland. If Luv has information to elaborate on his claim perhaps we can all learn from him. If he chooses not to supply facts, then as Reggie says, it's safe to just toss his comment out the window.
I understand not "beating the guy up", but really got me chuckeling is this
I spot several of the others that are suspect,
Ok, then Jim came on and explained that Steve H. had verified everything but the packs with cardboard (I understand Steve aint god and can make mistakes) then read down and seen this
As long as you feel they're ALL real, then so be it. Enjoy!
It just sounded like he was guessing. Like throwing a bucketful of darts hoping one hit target.
I didn't get the sense he was throwing darts. I got the sense that he knew he was going to be giving an opinion that would be unpopular and, knowing how internet message boards worked, quickly yanked his toe out of the water upon feeling the temperature.
I could be way off, but even still, he was about as polite as one can be when saying what he was saying.
Luvoldpacks first comments to this thread was "Most impressive rack collection" Wonder why it was most impressive then and now it's not?
Then he went on about a 1962 rack pack that he owns, but a couple of posts later Steve from BBCE gave his opinion that he had never seen a real 62 rack and neither had several other big names in the biz.
Maybe he does know something, but to come out of the blue so many months later and make a public comment with nothing to back it up seems odd.
Here is a copy of his first post minus the links of his rack images:
<< <i>Most impressive rack collection. You may be happy to hear that I know of another rarity which is at Memory Lane Auction Company right now being considered for an upcoming auction. It is one of the few, if only, remaining 1962 Topps Baseball Triple Cello Rack (Not Christmas) - the rack was owned by an Alaskan homesteader who had it displayed in an Anchorage card shop for 20+ years - he actually sold a major portion of his sport card collection to Mr. Mint years back - his name is Jim Soucek. I lived in Alaska for 26 years and was involved with the card hobby for a lot of those years. I ended up with the rack when I heard the store (Shoei-Do's) had closed several years back and I inquired about any vintage unopened items that may be for sale. Jim had a number of old sport packs, cards and sets remaining in his collection and I was able to buy several items from him through another collector. I asked Steve Hart about the '62 rack, sent him photos, told him the history and he said Topps NEVER made a 1962 Rack Pack. Well, I beg to differ especially since I had one in hand, PLUS, I have a copy of a Topps Ad where they were advertising them. (See pics attached) . . . well, now Memory Lane is trying to find out if the rack is a salesman sample or one used in Topps advertising since no one can say for sure if the '62 racks were distributed to the public. Fun stuff, eh? Anyway, see what you think and we'll talk about a sale or trade if interested. The cello packs in the rack are presentation, display quality packs - nothing fishy about them at all. We just can't find any old time collectors who will confirm the rack's legitimacy. >>
Steves response about Luvoldpacks 62 rack pack:
<< <i>Since many people have asked me about this, I will make a response.
My opinion on 1962 through 1965 Topps baseball rack packs.
I have been doing this for 25 years. Mark Murphy, Alan Rosen, and many quiet long time collectors I know have never, ever, ever bought/sold/made a find/witnessed/or had a dream with any Topps rack pack made from these years. I have seen 100's (yes 100's) of 1960, 1961 and 1966 on up Topps baseball rack packs. When I say 100's I can say this from the finds Alan Rosen made of 1960 and 1961 rack CASES many years ago. These are only the racks I HAVE SEEN. This doesnt account for the 100's that Murphy and many other collectors have made finds of from 1966 on up.
Why is it then nobody has ever, never made available or bought/sold a "LEGIT" 1962 through 1965 Topps baseball rack pack. I doubt that it is just a bad luck that nobody ever had one from these 4 years. My opinion is that most likely, they were never issued by Topps.
NOW WITH THAT BEING SAID, I have seen all the promo sheets that Topps put out from 1962, 1963 and 1964 showing a full correct rack pack. And I have seen 1 rack pack from 1962 Topps (not in my hands, just over e-mail). So is it possible Topps never released rack packs to the public, but possibly made a few for a couple of distributors? Of course thats possible (anything from Topps could be possible as Topps has never given out answers to some of these things). I would say this is the most likely scenario, as again, nobody has ever come up with a legit 1962 through 1965 Topps baseball rack pack in the course of nearly 50 years through all the dealer channels we know of.
This brings up another fact that will remind everyone of the biggest unopened scam out there. About 5-6 years ago someone came up with 100's (if not 1000's) of 1970 through 1975 Topps baseball grocery cellos. When they first hit the market all the same dealers I mentioned above (and many others) agreed that we had never, ever seen this product put out by Topps. Many old-time collectors also said they never saw these sold in retail outlets in the 1970's. Well, as it turned out, all of these grocery cellos turned out to be homemade fake packs. So........it just looks too much the same with 1962 through 1965 rack packs (nobody ever remembers these being sold) and 1970 through 1975 Topps grocery cellos.
AGAIN, I am not saying a 1962 through 1965 rack pack does not exist and is not real. However, until there is more proof (or more packs can surface) my best opinion is that Topps let a few out to select distibutors, or they are not real.
Thanks! Steve >>
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
Okay, I'm back - that mean person who dared bring up the fact some of poor ole Jim's racks are backroom reproductions. And yes, I will point out several OBVIOUS and KEY points that back that comment. But for clarification, I did NOT say anything negative about Steve Hart.... he's one of the most trusted guys in the hobby and one of the best pack authenticators I know. Hell, no one is perfect, especially in this vintage pack authentication game, but Steve's still the best I know!
First OBVIOUS thing to point out about a bad rack and what to look for, is, multiple staple holes and more than THREE staples. Look at all four of the older racks in question for starters - the '66 and '67 Topps Baseball, the '64 Philadelphia Football and the '59 Topps Football. You can clearly see on some that there are missing staples (see the holes), extra staples (only three staples in a row at the bottom of the header cards should be used) and there are varying sizes of staples on some. The spots where these were restapled, missed the original holes completely too. So, this is a SURE sign the racks are NOT factory sealed and have been either tampered with OR made up from scratch.
Secondly, and another HUGE obvious point, is, all four of these racks are bagged! Now to try and explain that ~ none of the earlier Topps racks (pre '68) were sold in a "bagged" rack. In other words, you couldn't slide three packs into a clear bag and attach it to the header card as these four were. Three cello-wrapped packs were OVERWRAPPED tightly in cellophane, sealed on the back and attached to the header card. So, the individual packs inside would not be able to move around in a bag. (I am not sure how the Philadelphia Racks were wrapped, but I believe they were bagged though the header flaws pointed out earlier still makes this a bad rack.)
Thirdly, NO cardboard inserts were put in the racks. PERIOD!!! (And even if they were, you'd think this rack maker would have at the very least made them all uniform. All four are cut differently.....hello??!?!)
I've seen a lot of the '68 thru '71 racks that are bad as well. I'm not looking at Jim's right now since I just wanted to address the obvious signs of a bad rack, but there have been a number or newer mid 70's rack wrappers that magically turned into earlier racks with the addition of the CORRECT header card. Don't let that fool you, have Steve weed those out for you, it takes a keen eye.
Hey, I'm not a professional and would never attest to that. I have been buying, selling and trading vintage packs for over 35 years (yes, I'm an old dude) and I've seen it all. I've also learned over the years how to spot a fake rather quickly and yes, I too have been burned. So, though Jim has some nice looking rack packs and plan to keep them, eventually they'll be sold and it would be good for those interested buyers to be educated on what to look for.
And while I'm still rambling on - DON'T buy ANY ungraded pack on eBay. There are reasons why they are not graded and 99% of those reasons are because it's NOT a factory sealed pack. Buyer beware!!!
Thanks ReggieC. I hate to be the 'bad guy' but in this part of the hobby, education is key to avoiding getting those nasty searched and resealed packs everyone hates to get stuck with.
<< <i>I am not sure how the Philadelphia Racks were wrapped, but I believe they were bagged >>
I have owned 3 64 philly racks and one of them came from a source that had 2 cases back in the late 80's. those were not bagged, they were cello over cello like topps.
Outstanding. A perfect example of what I was referring to. Thanks for the pic. (Also, noteworthy, three same sized staples in a row at the base of the header card...no extra holes, no other staples anywhere else and a classic example of a legit, factory sealed rack.)
This is one amazing collection you have amassed. My question is what do you do with it besides keep it stored in your basement. At what point do you start to rip into some of these packs? At what point do you start to sell some of it? I mean in the end you cant take it with you so what do you do with such a large collection? I would love to see some of the cards or videos of you ripping into a few older packs. Thanks for sharing
Comments
<< <i>Jim that stuff is speechless incredible!
Group rip anytime you want.
I will probably have to pass on that offer.
However, if I do get a chance to meet up with your group in Charlotte some time, I might have something interesting we could all rip. But I'll keep that for a surprise.
Jim
60's OPC packs
72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs
72 and earlier BB cello
<< <i>The main thing I wanted to try and collect early on was to try and get an unopened box and pack for each year in FB and BB.Jim >>
If you don't mind me asking, for which years DO you have full boxes in BB and FB?
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>
Who would that well known pack collector be???
Jose >>
How many emails a day do you want?
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>
<< <i>The main thing I wanted to try and collect early on was to try and get an unopened box and pack for each year in FB and BB.Jim >>
If you don't mind me asking, for which years DO you have full boxes in BB and FB? >>
I think you will just have to wait for future pictures.
Jim
60's OPC packs
72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs
72 and earlier BB cello
Thanks for finding this thread. I was actually going to look for it today. Jim has some awesome stuff. When people say "un-opened is drying up" it just goes to show there is still stuff out there. Maybe not the high end that Jim has but it's out there.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
Mark, I have this thread saved on my computer as a favorite, doesn't everyone???
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Well, we could always consign MacrosB's stash for a group rip! LOL! >>
HOLY CRAP.......that would be one expensive rip.
Jim actually offered up an un-opened case of 84 Topps FB (I think rack or cello) last summer but a few people complained about his price. He kindly took it off the table. That was a shame because it was probably a deal compared to today's prices. Hopefully Jim will offer some other stuff up in the future.
Mark
T206 Set - 300/524
Pete
youtube acct
Jim
60's OPC packs
72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs
72 and earlier BB cello
Jim just mentioned that Steve came over to his house and inspect them and felt they were all fine except maybe the ones with the cardboard in them.
What more can one ask for. Id feel good about them if I was Jim.
Jim thanks for sharing and please give us more to view, please! BTW when is the group rip planned?
You have some amazing stuff. Thanks for sharing. Love the 1959 FB wax box!!
<< <i>sounds like someone is jealous.
!! >>
I disagree.
There's nothing wrong with people stating objective opinions.
People are free to disagree or express discontent without being accused of being jealous.
Jim handled it perfectly. Gave the disagreeing party his opinion.
That's the way the game is played. Well done sirs.
<< <i>Sorry, hate to be a ball buster Jim, but there are a number of your rack packs that are not real. Too bad, since the photo's look quite nice, and though everyone WANTS to believe they are all legitimate, they're not. The '66 and '67 baseball and the '59 Topps and Philly football rack are all backroom reproductions for starters. The header cards are accurate for the issue, but the racks are not Jim. Everyone wants to believe - just like everyone wanted to believe those fake Christmas racks are real - but, sadly, you've been duped!!! I spot several of the others that are suspect, but I'm sure I'll already hear a bucket of who-knows-what from all who were most impressed with your collection. FYI, NO vintage racks had cardboard inserts put in them. I'm betting the scumbag who made these up did that to hide the seals on those packs to make it more difficult to authenticate. I would suggest sending them ALL to Steve Hart so he can weed out the bad ones and ensure you have authentic packs in your collection.
I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but it would be helpful if you pointed out why you think some are bad. I'll never turn down an opportunity to learn something about vintage unopened. Thanks
<< <i>As long as you feel they're ALL real, then so be it. Enjoy! >>
Your right. I don't know anything about whether a pack is real or not or realize the ones with cardboard didn't come from topps as is. And obviously Steve Hart was fooled when he looked at all my packs in person. I guess if he stops by he will tell you that. But since I have no plans to sell any of this stuff I guess I'm hurting no one but myself. I'm glad you are here to set me straight.
60's OPC packs
72 BB, 60's FB, 71FB, 73FB, 74FB, 75FB, 76FB, 78FB Rack Packs
72 and earlier BB cello
why most of us here buy his junk. Just trying to get it off the streets.
most of us here really enjoy looking at your collection. Now hurry up and get some
more pics of your "resealed" collection up here for us to see
Now, if he chooses not to supply facts, then it's safe to just toss his comment out the window. But I feel like he should have the opportunity to elaborate, especially since he already knows how the mob mentality of this board can sometimes be, without people mocking him.
<< <i>And obviously Steve Hart was fooled when he looked at all my packs in person. >>
Unfortunately, Steve would probably be the first person to admit he is not perfect and has been fooled in the past. No one is perfect. I agree with ReggieCleveland. If Luv has information to elaborate on his claim perhaps we can all learn from him. If he chooses not to supply facts, then as Reggie says, it's safe to just toss his comment out the window.
I spot several of the others that are suspect,
Ok, then Jim came on and explained that Steve H. had verified everything but the
packs with cardboard (I understand Steve aint god and can make mistakes) then
read down and seen this
As long as you feel they're ALL real, then so be it. Enjoy!
It just sounded like he was guessing. Like throwing a bucketful of darts hoping
one hit target.
I could be way off, but even still, he was about as polite as one can be when saying what he was saying.
Then he went on about a 1962 rack pack that he owns, but a couple of posts later Steve from BBCE gave his opinion that he had never seen a real 62 rack and neither had several other big names in the biz.
Maybe he does know something, but to come out of the blue so many months later and make a public comment with nothing to back it up seems odd.
Here is a copy of his first post minus the links of his rack images:
<< <i>Most impressive rack collection. You may be happy to hear that I know of another rarity which is at Memory Lane Auction Company right now being considered for an upcoming auction. It is one of the few, if only, remaining 1962 Topps Baseball Triple Cello Rack (Not Christmas) - the rack was owned by an Alaskan homesteader who had it displayed in an Anchorage card shop for 20+ years - he actually sold a major portion of his sport card collection to Mr. Mint years back - his name is Jim Soucek. I lived in Alaska for 26 years and was involved with the card hobby for a lot of those years. I ended up with the rack when I heard the store (Shoei-Do's) had closed several years back and I inquired about any vintage unopened items that may be for sale. Jim had a number of old sport packs, cards and sets remaining in his collection and I was able to buy several items from him through another collector. I asked Steve Hart about the '62 rack, sent him photos, told him the history and he said Topps NEVER made a 1962 Rack Pack. Well, I beg to differ especially since I had one in hand, PLUS, I have a copy of a Topps Ad where they were advertising them. (See pics attached) . . . well, now Memory Lane is trying to find out if the rack is a salesman sample or one used in Topps advertising since no one can say for sure if the '62 racks were distributed to the public. Fun stuff, eh? Anyway, see what you think and we'll talk about a sale or trade if interested. The cello packs in the rack are presentation, display quality packs - nothing fishy about them at all. We just can't find any old time collectors who will confirm the rack's legitimacy. >>
Steves response about Luvoldpacks 62 rack pack:
<< <i>Since many people have asked me about this, I will make a response.
My opinion on 1962 through 1965 Topps baseball rack packs.
I have been doing this for 25 years. Mark Murphy, Alan Rosen, and many quiet long time collectors I know have never, ever, ever bought/sold/made a find/witnessed/or had a dream with any Topps rack pack made from these years. I have seen 100's (yes 100's) of 1960, 1961 and 1966 on up Topps baseball rack packs. When I say 100's I can say this from the finds Alan Rosen made of 1960 and 1961 rack CASES many years ago. These are only the racks I HAVE SEEN. This doesnt account for the 100's that Murphy and many other collectors have made finds of from 1966 on up.
Why is it then nobody has ever, never made available or bought/sold a "LEGIT" 1962 through 1965 Topps baseball rack pack. I doubt that it is just a bad luck that nobody ever had one from these 4 years. My opinion is that most likely, they were never issued by Topps.
NOW WITH THAT BEING SAID, I have seen all the promo sheets that Topps put out from 1962, 1963 and 1964 showing a full correct rack pack. And I have seen 1 rack pack from 1962 Topps (not in my hands, just over e-mail). So is it possible Topps never released rack packs to the public, but possibly made a few for a couple of distributors? Of course thats possible (anything from Topps could be possible as Topps has never given out answers to some of these things). I would say this is the most likely scenario, as again, nobody has ever come up with a legit 1962 through 1965 Topps baseball rack pack in the course of nearly 50 years through all the dealer channels we know of.
This brings up another fact that will remind everyone of the biggest unopened scam out there. About 5-6 years ago someone came up with 100's (if not 1000's) of 1970 through 1975 Topps baseball grocery cellos. When they first hit the market all the same dealers I mentioned above (and many others) agreed that we had never, ever seen this product put out by Topps. Many old-time collectors also said they never saw these sold in retail outlets in the 1970's. Well, as it turned out, all of these grocery cellos turned out to be homemade fake packs. So........it just looks too much the same with 1962 through 1965 rack packs (nobody ever remembers these being sold) and 1970 through 1975 Topps grocery cellos.
AGAIN, I am not saying a 1962 through 1965 rack pack does not exist and is not real. However, until there is more proof (or more packs can surface) my best opinion is that Topps let a few out to select distibutors, or they are not real.
Thanks! Steve >>
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
JDRF Donation
First OBVIOUS thing to point out about a bad rack and what to look for, is, multiple staple holes and more than THREE staples. Look at all four of the older racks in question for starters - the '66 and '67 Topps Baseball, the '64 Philadelphia Football and the '59 Topps Football. You can clearly see on some that there are missing staples (see the holes), extra staples (only three staples in a row at the bottom of the header cards should be used) and there are varying sizes of staples on some. The spots where these were restapled, missed the original holes completely too. So, this is a SURE sign the racks are NOT factory sealed and have been either tampered with OR made up from scratch.
Secondly, and another HUGE obvious point, is, all four of these racks are bagged! Now to try and explain that ~ none of the earlier Topps racks (pre '68) were sold in a "bagged" rack. In other words, you couldn't slide three packs into a clear bag and attach it to the header card as these four were. Three cello-wrapped packs were OVERWRAPPED tightly in cellophane, sealed on the back and attached to the header card. So, the individual packs inside would not be able to move around in a bag. (I am not sure how the Philadelphia Racks were wrapped, but I believe they were bagged though the header flaws pointed out earlier still makes this a bad rack.)
Thirdly, NO cardboard inserts were put in the racks. PERIOD!!! (And even if they were, you'd think this rack maker would have at the very least made them all uniform. All four are cut differently.....hello??!?!)
I've seen a lot of the '68 thru '71 racks that are bad as well. I'm not looking at Jim's right now since I just wanted to address the obvious signs of a bad rack, but there have been a number or newer mid 70's rack wrappers that magically turned into earlier racks with the addition of the CORRECT header card. Don't let that fool you, have Steve weed those out for you, it takes a keen eye.
Hey, I'm not a professional and would never attest to that. I have been buying, selling and trading vintage packs for over 35 years (yes, I'm an old dude) and I've seen it all. I've also learned over the years how to spot a fake rather quickly and yes, I too have been burned. So, though Jim has some nice looking rack packs and plan to keep them, eventually they'll be sold and it would be good for those interested buyers to be educated on what to look for.
And while I'm still rambling on - DON'T buy ANY ungraded pack on eBay. There are reasons why they are not graded and 99% of those reasons are because it's NOT a factory sealed pack. Buyer beware!!!
<< <i>I am not sure how the Philadelphia Racks were wrapped, but I believe they were bagged >>
I have owned 3 64 philly racks and one of them came from a source that had 2 cases back in the late 80's. those were not bagged, they were cello over cello like topps.
luvoldpacks--keen eye...and good comments.
Pete