Options
So How Do You Feel About the "+" Pricing So Far?
stman
Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
Holy Smokes! I understand if there is a big price increase in the next grade up. But, I'm seeing what the PCGS "guide" has for "+" coins. Then I'm seeing dealers asking twice that amount. What you think? Me? I'm gonna get my sharpie pen out and "+" my own. Heh Heh
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
0
Comments
if the "price guide" has it for 10% or 20% of the way, and the market is pricing them at 40 or 50 or even 60%, then maybe the price guide should be revised?
I'm in the market for some MS64+ peace dollars for a little over MS64 prices, any one have a 25S or 27S for me?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>if the "price guide" has it for 10% or 20% of the way, and the market is pricing them at 40 or 50 or even 60%, then maybe the price guide should be revised? >>
Yes, let's raise the guide prices for anything anybody asks for a coin!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
<< <i>Then I'm seeing dealers asking twice that amount. What you think? >>
Are they asking it AND getting it, or asking it and sitting on their inventory? I'm guessing there is some of each going on.
People can ask whatever they want for their PQ or + coins, but if they ain't selling, it either has limited appeal, or is priced too high (or both).
Never even saw a single PCGS graded coin with the Plus, so I can't get too excited about it. For me, just put that Green Bean on my PCGS graded coins, that will make me happy. Don't need any other grading gimmicks.
I can not swing that WA half - but I will take that 1958 Blue NGC MS 66 Franklin off your hands @ 65$ !
can you mark it sold for me ?
<< <i>I've got an absolutely outstanding and original type coin on my website right now that is in a PCGS MS64+ holder where the Greysheet is $2,950 in MS64 and $16,750 in MS65 while the PCGS price guide estimates $4,250 in MS64 and $18,500 in MS65, but with only a rather small premium to $4,750 in MS64+. This is a case where the population of MS64+ was until last week only a single coin and now is two coins. I have not had anyone request my coin, which is priced at $5,250 and is spectacularly original. >>
Backdoor SPAM!
It's now @ $ 4600 min
Iowa MS68+
Numismedia price guide has Iowa Commems non plus MS68 @ $1530.
The + designation is a bust IMHO, an attempt to 'make a market', where one didn't exist before.
<< <i>Just another G-I-M-M-I-C-K That's what I think.
playin with fire may get you burnt..
but I totally agree it is a gimmick
in certain series are really choice. As time goes by, the Plus grades will sort thenselves
out. It will begin to vary depending on scarcity of the grade and the year and mint in
question.
Camelot
and I think now that the toning on the coin is fugly. The coin was never worth
the former high price and is probably correct at the recent price.
Camelot
collectors must be very selective about looking thru coins, especially plus grades.
If you are careful and use a critical eye, there are a number of truly beautiful Plus
coins to select for your collections. One can never just accept a grade. It must
always pass muster with your own strict standards.
Camelot
I have previously written on Plus grade pricing. The biggest factor in determing how much value a Plus adds to a coin is the pops. A coin with a pop 10 in 65, and a pop 1 in 66 probably has a big price spread. A 65+ will probably trade at a substantial premium over the 65 price. Conversely if the pop in 65 is 30 and the pop in 66 is 18, the spread will be smaller and a 65+ will bring a premium but not a big one.
I have received messages from various people reporting what they sold Plus coins for. Rather than listen to me maybe someone can jump in here with some real experiences.
Is this simply a marketing operation?
I guess it depends on how you look at it.
The way I look at it is that Plus grades recognize something that many of us have known for years. Some coins simply are superior examples of a grade - they just don't make it to the next grade.
Most dealers know this and pick off those that don't. Having PCGS recognize the coin with a Plus really levels the playing field.
Plus prices will work themselves out over the next couple years.
My question is, do you think we can eventually move to a finer grading standard?
Never say never, but this is a pretty big deal. Both for us and for the collecting community.
TomB - perhaps it's the picture that's holding the half back - it seems a bit drab.
The Price Guide lists the MS67+RD at $4,000 most likely as a result of me buying the MS67+RD at auction last fall for just over $4500. That price is about 3 times the going rate of an MS67RD and pretty much comes the closest to splitting the gap between grades that I've seen so far. PCGS also noticed this big price increase and used that coin and auction result in many advertisements over the past year or so. Unfortunately, I don't think the high price realized is because of the plus grading itself.
The special situation with the 1909 VDB is a large pop in the lower grade (200+ in MS67RD) and hardly anything higher (only 1 in MS68RD). Once this first MS67+RD was made, it basically became a pop 1/1 coin which is a big deal for a first year coin in a major series and a one year only type coin.
So far, there is still only one MS67+RD 1909 VDB, but I'm not thinking that will last forever. I've seen many of the 1909 VDB cents in MS67RD and some are clearly much better than others. With over 200 examples, surely another will bump up to 67+RD someday, especially if one were to set up PCGS by sending in 10-20 examples already graded MS67RD for a regrade (and mix in some high end examples with some of the dogs). Once the pop of the 67+RD goes up, I'd be strongly that the price of the 1909 VDB in 67+RD will go down. For that reason, I ended up selling the coin earlier this year while it's still a pop 1 and I was able to sell it for a reasonable profit.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
And while I believe a premium would be necessary to buy any of the above, the grade has been recognized by a pretty good group of graders( not just me as the owner)
In the old days, I'd have to go through far more coins labeled 'Gem,' 'BU,' etc. before finding one I liked. Now, I can look at coins in a specific grade, and see where I think they are on the continuum of such grade.
I'll pay more for a coin I think is nice for the grade than for one which I don't believe this is the case.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Totally agree it is the COIN that matters. Even with the subjectives that go into any grade, and the +'s that are not great, and the green beans that are wrong( for my standards)...
I respect the plus grade more than the green bean, almost every time.
And there is a Price Guide that listes the premium for the plus. Not so for the green bean, or any NGC +'s or stars. PCGS is ahead in this area.
<< <i>It could be the image, TDN, but the coin really does have muted luster and that is the reason that it didn't grade higher, in my opinion. Truly, the coin is not for everyone and I could imagine quite a few folks thinking that it has negative eye appeal. I think it is gorgeous and original and have it priced as such with a small markup, but the pool of buyers for that coin is limited and it doesn't have a look that everyone appreciates. It seems odd that I'm ripping my own coin, but it's just the reality for this particular coin. Regardless, my other post in this thread was meant as a "details" post to add information to the discussion and not as a gripe or whine that others were somehow missing a bargain. >>
Understood and what you've just described is how I view the coin. To my eye, that's not the kind of coin that's going to bring a huge premium over 64 - the kind that brings the huge premium is the 'looker' coin ... the coin that you can point to the hit or line or whatever that keeps it out of the next grade holder but has all the pizazz of that next grade.
TRUTH
<< <i>From my perspective, I have had no dealers willing to pay a premium for the plus.
TRUTH >>
So they probably don't charge a premium for one either.