<< <i>Actually I've come to prefer coins in the NGC prongs holders. The larger the coin, the better, but the clear plastic is REALLY clear, and I've come to prefer the holder for NGC coins. >>
I can feel your pain here for this particular coin, but that having been said I like the ngc pronged holder over the current pcgs holder where the rubber gasket, or whatever you call it, can deteriorate and flop down over the coin. If you want to see an example of this go to the Heritage galleries website and look at the 1927 specimen buffalo nickel they sold. Cannot believe that the owner of that coin would have stood for such a poor quality holder. But the problem here is how could this nick have been missed? It should have been noted on the slab insert that there was a nick, but that is just the chance you take when you buy either a pcgs or an ngc holder. When you buy a pcgs or ngc coin and crack it out, game over!! It is yours. I guess the old saying caveat emptor applies. buffnixx
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>My 1875 Gold Dollar has an edge nick on the reverse which shows up in the TruView images but is totally hidden by the PCGS Gasket.
>>
Yes, but it has a very small rim. PCGS slabs do hide the edge of the rim, while NGC hides a larger part of the rim in three/four small areas. I suspect the prongs make the most sense... if only they could be made of transparent plastic.
Edit to add: But I really like conformity... if they move to prongs, they wouldn't conform to all the slabs w/o prongs. I really like one insert, one slab.
Edited to edit to add: Why I like conformity... If your collection has more than one insert, TPG, slab, etc., look at your collection... the differences in the plastic draws your attention away from the coins. If all the slabs/inserts are identical, they disappear into the background and the coins come to the forefront!
<< <i>I bought one NGC coin and learned my leason.I will never buy an NGC coin again. >>
That seems rash; you can't base an entire company on one coin. I have seen dogs in PCGS holders too, but over all, both PCGS and NGC do a relatively good job of keeping junk out of holders. Nothing in this statement is to be construed to apply to the instant case, however; I feel NGC was wrong.
Lance, The prong in the Heritage close up totally changes what you bought. I can see why there wasn't much concern on your part about buying that coin given what you could observe. If Heritage or NGC doesn't offer any relief, sell it at auction and move on. You will never get over that gouge on the rim. Sorry for the bad luck. Mel
<< <i>If you are a frequent/repeat customer of Heritage...I think you are...you should call them as well. They have more leverage! Maybe something like this would initiate a phone call from Heritage to NGC forcing NGC to make it right? All Heritage would have to say is something like...maybe we should NOT ALLOW any more NGC Prong Holders in our Auctions if you as a company are hiding things like this from our customers(bidders). That would get their attention REALLY REALLY REALLY QUICK! Could you imagine the value of NGC Prong Holder Coins just plumeting because they are NOT ALLOWED at big respected auction houses any more?....or if the Auction Houses started to add a disclaimer to all prong holder auctions that went like: "Due to the holder this coin is in, we cannot guarantee that a PROBLEM is not hidden under the prongs. Please bid with caution, no returns accepted."
I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue.
Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee?
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee? >>
I think it's only the color designation they guarantee.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee? >>
I think it's only the color designation they guarantee. >>
You are correct! If the coin is not up to standard besides the color changing then they stand behind their guarantee. There is more to it, coins certified after a certain date etc etc.
Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. >>
I don't know about the present state of operations, but I have seen many people angry over what they consider "low ball" offers under the buy back program so I'm not sure if they were made "whole" or whether they still end up in red ink.
The decision makes sense to me as NGC is not willing to open such a can of worms and field all the future requests they will surely get.
Note that they did grade the coin the first time wart and all. TPG's pretty much have to stand behind the grade they initially give....whether right, wrong, or indifferent.
I would submit for reholdering only to sell it. But I can't in good conscience hide the ding behind the prong and say nothing about it to potential buyers.
But hearing of a ding and not being able to see it fully will scare buyers away. Hmm.
Maybe it would be best to request a non-prong holder? Lance.
<< <i>I would submit for reholdering only to sell it. But I can't in good conscience hide the ding behind the prong and say nothing about it to potential buyers.
But hearing of a ding and not being able to see it fully will scare buyers away. Hmm.
Maybe it would be best to request a non-prong holder? Lance. >>
I'd be more curious to see what that coin would look like in a PCGS holder... I'm still convinced that the overlap PCGS gasket would hide about as much of the rim cut as the NGC prong. I've had coins that I owned for years in PCGS holders (not small gold dollars) which I've sent in for TrueView photos only to discover issues on the rims. Sure, not as major as what you are showing, but still wish I had known about them.
Due to the holder this coin is in, we cannot guarantee that a PROBLEM is not hidden under the prongs. Please bid with caution, no returns accepted. >>
I've bid in auctions long enough to know that the above means "if this is a problem coin, you are S.O.L." I treat coins with descriptions like these as I would treat someone with the ebola virus.
Lance, I am sorry about your disappointment. I remember how I felt when I paid a premium for what I thought was a choice MS 65 FH SLQ, only to discover that it was just a mid-grade coin.
If you did a large volume of business with Heritage, I think they might help you out as a goodwill gesture. Otherwise, I think you're out of luck. I'd call them in any event.
An AU 58 today is not an AU 58 of 10 years ago. By current standards, I think the coin is adequately graded. I have an MS 65 Braided Hair Half Cent with a rim ding (though not like that one) which I believe is properly graded, as well.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee? >>
I think it's only the color designation they guarantee. >>
You are correct! If the coin is not up to standard besides the color changing then they stand behind their guarantee. There is more to it, coins certified after a certain date etc etc. >>
You are both, of course correct about some of the details. However, the point I was trying to make was that I guess that they don't always "buy back their mistakes or somehow make you whole", and in fact you have no idea if PCGS would or would not have done anything about Lance's coin should it have been in a PCGS rather than an NGC holder.
I feel your frustration, but there's no reason to presume the situation would have been any different on the other side of the fence.
Take care...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
It's an AU coin, I think they called it right. It is a good rim hit, a bit more than a nick, but still ok on an AU coin.
However, I think it would have fostered goodwill towards them if they did buy it back, instead they have done the opposite... at least that seems to be the case in reading this thread.
Most coins are not removed from the holders, so this is interesting to me that they did not offer to buy it back.
It sucks for sure, but let them re-holder it and put it back in auction.
<< <i>However, I think it would have fostered goodwill towards them if they did buy it back, instead they have done the opposite... at least that seems to be the case in reading this thread. >>
I don't know- several posters have said they didn't have a problem with the nick at that grade, so it's not like it's a slam-dunk decision that a mistake was made. Sure, it would be nice for the OP if they did buy it back. But to be fair, what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade, and then somebody else, and somebody after that, and... well, you get the idea.
<< <i>However, I think it would have fostered goodwill towards them if they did buy it back, instead they have done the opposite... at least that seems to be the case in reading this thread. >>
I don't know- several posters have said they didn't have a problem with the nick at that grade, so it's not like it's a slam-dunk decision that a mistake was made. Sure, it would be nice for the OP if they did buy it back. But to be fair, what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade, and then somebody else, and somebody after that, and... well, you get the idea. >>
The whole idea behind these holders is to allow you to view the third side of the coin, or at least most of it. No matter whether you like this style holder or not, it does give you the ability to see more of the coin. On examination of the Heritage images, you certainly can see some of the rim nick, and the thought has to cross your mind on how far under the prong the hit goes. So maybe if I was after this coin I would have bid anyway if I needed it. It still is ok for an AU in my book. Just unfortunate as it was destined to be cracked out for a Dansco, but of course you can't blame the OP for that. Think this is a little different than someone disagreeing with the grade, as the pronged holders were touted as allowing you to see rim defects better, in this case quite the opposite happened.
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
Re-holder it without the prongs then sell it. You should notify Heritage just to inform them about the things the NGC Prongs can hide. If they offer something up, great, listen to what they have to say. I think they should be made aware of the problem at least.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Think this is a little different than someone disagreeing with the grade, >>
I know I said grade ("what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade"), but it could have just as easily been "die polish lines" or "adjustment marks". Anyway, I don't think a grading service can responsibly revise their grade opinion based on wanting to show goodwill to a holder of their product.
<< <i>Think this is a little different than someone disagreeing with the grade, >>
I know I said grade ("what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade"), but it could have just as easily been "die polish lines" or "adjustment marks". Anyway, I don't think a grading service can responsibly revise their grade opinion based on wanting to show goodwill to a holder of their product. >>
Neither die polish lines nor ajdustment marks are PMD.
<< <i>Neither die polish lines nor ajdustment marks are PMD. >>
No, they're not. But as with the nick on this particular coin, some people can live with them and some can't. My point is still the same- it would be risky for any TPG to put itself in the position of either giving "mercy grades" or offering buybacks on coins they believe they graded properly in the name of customer goodwill.
<< <i>Neither die polish lines nor ajdustment marks are PMD. >>
No, they're not. But as with the nick on this particular coin, some people can live with them and some can't. My point is still the same- it would be risky for any TPG to put itself in the position of either giving "mercy grades" or offering buybacks on coins they believe they graded properly in the name of customer goodwill. >>
And my point is that you cannot compare market acceptability of PMD versus as struck issues, therefore the foundation of your argument is invalid.
However, I understand your position and am willing to grudgingly accept your point, however logically invalid
<< <i>And my point is that you cannot compare market acceptability of PMD versus as struck issues, therefore the foundation of your argument is invalid. >>
Sure you can. As seems to be the case based on the OP's experience here, the TPGs apparently do consider market acceptability of PMD as well as "as struck" issues.
So I think the argument makes perfect sense.
edited to add... let's ignore the "PMD/as struck" issue for a minute.
Assume a TPG reviews a coin and comes to the same conclusion regarding grade the second time around. Do you believe it would be good or bad for that TPG to be publicly recognized as ignoring their own grading decision and deciding instead to either lower the coin's grade or offer to buy it back in the name of customer goodwill?
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
Sorry to hear this Lance.
I personally think you've been stuck holding the bag.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
Sorry to hear this Lance.
I personally think you've been stuck holding the bag. >>
Yes, it seems I have.
Putting it back in a holder and selling it doesn't sit right with me unless there is full disclosure. Which means I'd likely take a loss.
NGC will go so far as reslabbing it but I don't see any great benefit. The coin and the price paid are unchanged.
Heritage might feign interest in my story but I can't see them doing much. I might still call them but what is a reasonable expectation? Money back? Buy back? I don't see it.
The ding across the rim and star are significant enough to spoil the coin for me. It doesn't feel like a bag hit or common circulation damage. Something unusual struck it, large and narrow and straight, and the damage mars an otherwise pretty, scarce variety.
Everyone knows that once you've gotten worked up about a problem coin you rarely get over it.
So, I'm stuck holding the bag I think. I guess it's time I moved on.
I appreciate the advice and opinions from everyone. Lance.
That's more than a "nick". It looks like someone's 4 year old got one good whack at it with a hammer & chisel before the parent grabbed it away from him. I think you deserve a refund.
I never thought that growing old would happen so fast. - Jim
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice. Lance. >>
Sorry to hear this Lance.
I personally think you've been stuck holding the bag. >>
Yes, it seems I have.
Putting it back in a holder and selling it doesn't sit right with me unless there is full disclosure. Which means I'd likely take a loss.
NGC will go so far as reslabbing it but I don't see any great benefit. The coin and the price paid are unchanged.
Heritage might feign interest in my story but I can't see them doing much. I might still call them but what is a reasonable expectation? Money back? Buy back? I don't see it.
The ding across the rim and star are significant enough to spoil the coin for me. It doesn't feel like a bag hit or common circulation damage. Something unusual struck it, large and narrow and straight, and the damage mars an otherwise pretty, scarce variety.
Everyone knows that once you've gotten worked up about a problem coin you rarely get over it.
So, I'm stuck holding the bag I think. I guess it's time I moved on.
I appreciate the advice and opinions from everyone. Lance. >>
Lance, this is an interesting situation, that's for sure. I personally like the prong holders since they allow us to see more of the rim, but it is interesting to note that it can also hide flaws such as it did with your coin. And I could be wrong, but IMO I don't really see where Heritage has much liability for what a TPG holder masks - it is the consignor that should have informed Heritage of this flaw, so perhaps if you contacted Heritage, they could go back to their consignor for some sort of compensation (but of course, it may be that the consignor was not the one who submitted the coin and also had no clue as to what was hidden behind the prong).
In any event, I think it wouldn't hurt to send a link to this discussion to both NGC and Heritage so they can see how their customers and potential customers are reacting to this specific issue. Perhaps it will cause NGC to be more alert to how they place coins in their holders.
As an aside, I submitted a penny with three clipped planchets to NGC and it just so happened that the prong holders were in the exact same location as two of the clips, which were not major clips, so I asked them to rotate the coin so the clips were more prevalent, and they did.
Comments
<< <i>Actually I've come to prefer coins in the NGC prongs holders. The larger the coin, the better, but the clear plastic is REALLY clear, and I've come to prefer the holder for NGC coins. >>
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>My 1875 Gold Dollar has an edge nick on the reverse which shows up in the TruView images but is totally hidden by the PCGS Gasket.
Yes, but it has a very small rim. PCGS slabs do hide the edge of the rim, while NGC hides a larger part of the rim in three/four small areas. I suspect the prongs make the most sense... if only they could be made of transparent plastic.
Edit to add: But I really like conformity... if they move to prongs, they wouldn't conform to all the slabs w/o prongs.
Edited to edit to add: Why I like conformity...
BUT I see more than just a rim ding,,, follow it out and it also goes through the center of the star.
so more damage than just what a prong can hide.
<< <i>I bought one NGC coin and learned my leason.I will never buy an NGC coin again. >>
That seems rash; you can't base an entire company on one coin. I have seen dogs in PCGS holders too, but over all, both PCGS and NGC do a relatively good job of keeping junk out of holders. Nothing in this statement is to be construed to apply to the instant case, however; I feel NGC was wrong.
(Edited to fix horrendous typo)
<< <i>I bought one NGC coin and learned my leason.I will never buy an NGC coin again. >>
Pretty harsh dont you think?
what you could observe. If Heritage or NGC doesn't offer any relief, sell it at auction and move on. You will never get over that gouge on the rim. Sorry for the bad
luck.
<< <i>If you are a frequent/repeat customer of Heritage...I think you are...you should call them as well. They have more leverage! Maybe something like this would initiate a phone call from Heritage to NGC forcing NGC to make it right? All Heritage would have to say is something like...maybe we should NOT ALLOW any more NGC Prong Holders in our Auctions if you as a company are hiding things like this from our customers(bidders). That would get their attention REALLY REALLY REALLY QUICK! Could you imagine the value of NGC Prong Holder Coins just plumeting because they are NOT ALLOWED at big respected auction houses any more?....or if the Auction Houses started to add a disclaimer to all prong holder auctions that went like: "Due to the holder this coin is in, we cannot guarantee that a PROBLEM is not hidden under the prongs. Please bid with caution, no returns accepted."
Call Heritage! >>
absolutely they should compensate or buy it back.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance.
My advice to a budding copper collector is to stay away from NGC 58s. The OP's coin is but one example of the peril.
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue.
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
<< <i>
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee? >>
I think it's only the color designation they guarantee.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee? >>
I think it's only the color designation they guarantee. >>
You are correct! If the coin is not up to standard besides the color changing then they stand behind their guarantee. There is more to it, coins certified after a certain date etc etc.
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
<< <i>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. >>
I don't know about the present state of operations, but I have seen many people angry over what they consider "low ball" offers under the buy back program so I'm not sure if they were made "whole" or whether they still end up in red ink.
Note that they did grade the coin the first time wart and all. TPG's pretty much have to stand behind the grade they initially give....whether right, wrong, or indifferent.
roadrunner
But hearing of a ding and not being able to see it fully will scare buyers away. Hmm.
Maybe it would be best to request a non-prong holder?
Lance.
<< <i>I would submit for reholdering only to sell it. But I can't in good conscience hide the ding behind the prong and say nothing about it to potential buyers.
But hearing of a ding and not being able to see it fully will scare buyers away. Hmm.
Maybe it would be best to request a non-prong holder?
Lance. >>
I'd be more curious to see what that coin would look like in a PCGS holder... I'm still convinced that the overlap PCGS gasket would hide about as much of the rim cut as the NGC prong. I've had coins that I owned for years in PCGS holders (not small gold dollars) which I've sent in for TrueView photos only to discover issues on the rims. Sure, not as major as what you are showing, but still wish I had known about them.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I've bid in auctions long enough to know that the above means "if this is a problem coin, you are S.O.L." I treat coins with descriptions like these as I would treat someone with the ebola virus.
Lance, I am sorry about your disappointment. I remember how I felt when I paid a premium for what I thought was a choice MS 65 FH SLQ, only to discover that it was just a mid-grade coin.
If you did a large volume of business with Heritage, I think they might help you out as a goodwill gesture. Otherwise, I think you're out of luck. I'd call them in any event.
An AU 58 today is not an AU 58 of 10 years ago. By current standards, I think the coin is adequately graded. I have an MS 65 Braided Hair Half Cent with a rim ding (though not like that one) which I believe is properly graded, as well.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
That is completely ridicoulus..... I am too growing tired of ATS. One more reason to use PCGS....atleast they buy back their mistakes or somehow will make you whole. I sent in an nice fully red indian cent for a reholder/inspection because the coin had veridigris spots starting on the coin. They did not do a thing to it and just reholdered it. Atleast PCGS would have done something about this issue. >>
Is it safe to assume that you are unaware PCGS ended their copper guarantee? >>
I think it's only the color designation they guarantee. >>
You are correct! If the coin is not up to standard besides the color changing then they stand behind their guarantee. There is more to it, coins certified after a certain date etc etc. >>
You are both, of course correct about some of the details. However, the point I was trying to make was that I guess that they don't always "buy back their mistakes or somehow make you whole", and in fact you have no idea if PCGS would or would not have done anything about Lance's coin should it have been in a PCGS rather than an NGC holder.
I feel your frustration, but there's no reason to presume the situation would have been any different on the other side of the fence.
Take care...Mike
However, I think it would have fostered goodwill towards them if they did buy it back, instead they have done the opposite... at least that seems to be the case in reading this thread.
Most coins are not removed from the holders, so this is interesting to me that they did not offer to buy it back.
It sucks for sure, but let them re-holder it and put it back in auction.
<< <i>However, I think it would have fostered goodwill towards them if they did buy it back, instead they have done the opposite... at least that seems to be the case in reading this thread. >>
I don't know- several posters have said they didn't have a problem with the nick at that grade, so it's not like it's a slam-dunk decision that a mistake was made. Sure, it would be nice for the OP if they did buy it back. But to be fair, what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade, and then somebody else, and somebody after that, and... well, you get the idea.
<< <i>
<< <i>However, I think it would have fostered goodwill towards them if they did buy it back, instead they have done the opposite... at least that seems to be the case in reading this thread. >>
I don't know- several posters have said they didn't have a problem with the nick at that grade, so it's not like it's a slam-dunk decision that a mistake was made. Sure, it would be nice for the OP if they did buy it back. But to be fair, what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade, and then somebody else, and somebody after that, and... well, you get the idea. >>
The whole idea behind these holders is to allow you to view the third side of the coin, or at least most of it. No matter whether you like this style holder or not, it does give you the ability to see more of the coin. On examination of the Heritage images, you certainly can see some of the rim nick, and the thought has to cross your mind on how far under the prong the hit goes. So maybe if I was after this coin I would have bid anyway if I needed it. It still is ok for an AU in my book. Just unfortunate as it was destined to be cracked out for a Dansco, but of course you can't blame the OP for that. Think this is a little different than someone disagreeing with the grade, as the pronged holders were touted as allowing you to see rim defects better, in this case quite the opposite happened.
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
Re-holder it without the prongs then sell it. You should notify Heritage just to inform them about the things the NGC Prongs can hide. If they offer something up, great, listen to what they have to say. I think they should be made aware of the problem at least.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Think this is a little different than someone disagreeing with the grade, >>
I know I said grade ("what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade"), but it could have just as easily been "die polish lines" or "adjustment marks". Anyway, I don't think a grading service can responsibly revise their grade opinion based on wanting to show goodwill to a holder of their product.
<< <i>
<< <i>Think this is a little different than someone disagreeing with the grade, >>
I know I said grade ("what happens tomorrow when another person is unhappy with *their* grade"), but it could have just as easily been "die polish lines" or "adjustment marks". Anyway, I don't think a grading service can responsibly revise their grade opinion based on wanting to show goodwill to a holder of their product. >>
Neither die polish lines nor ajdustment marks are PMD.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Neither die polish lines nor ajdustment marks are PMD. >>
No, they're not. But as with the nick on this particular coin, some people can live with them and some can't. My point is still the same- it would be risky for any TPG to put itself in the position of either giving "mercy grades" or offering buybacks on coins they believe they graded properly in the name of customer goodwill.
<< <i>
<< <i>Neither die polish lines nor ajdustment marks are PMD. >>
No, they're not. But as with the nick on this particular coin, some people can live with them and some can't. My point is still the same- it would be risky for any TPG to put itself in the position of either giving "mercy grades" or offering buybacks on coins they believe they graded properly in the name of customer goodwill. >>
And my point is that you cannot compare market acceptability of PMD versus as struck issues, therefore the foundation of your argument is invalid.
However, I understand your position and am willing to grudgingly accept your point, however logically invalid
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>And my point is that you cannot compare market acceptability of PMD versus as struck issues, therefore the foundation of your argument is invalid. >>
Sure you can. As seems to be the case based on the OP's experience here, the TPGs apparently do consider market acceptability of PMD as well as "as struck" issues.
So I think the argument makes perfect sense.
edited to add... let's ignore the "PMD/as struck" issue for a minute.
Assume a TPG reviews a coin and comes to the same conclusion regarding grade the second time around. Do you believe it would be good or bad for that TPG to be publicly recognized as ignoring their own grading decision and deciding instead to either lower the coin's grade or offer to buy it back in the name of customer goodwill?
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
Sorry to hear this Lance.
I personally think you've been stuck holding the bag.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>That's almost a crime to hide a ding like that with a prong. They could have rotated the coin to show the ding...... or not grade it at all. >>
Oh no, another possible "coin fraud" case
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
Sorry to hear this Lance.
I personally think you've been stuck holding the bag. >>
Yes, it seems I have.
Putting it back in a holder and selling it doesn't sit right with me unless there is full disclosure. Which means I'd likely take a loss.
NGC will go so far as reslabbing it but I don't see any great benefit. The coin and the price paid are unchanged.
Heritage might feign interest in my story but I can't see them doing much. I might still call them but what is a reasonable expectation? Money back? Buy back? I don't see it.
The ding across the rim and star are significant enough to spoil the coin for me. It doesn't feel like a bag hit or common circulation damage. Something unusual struck it, large and narrow and straight, and the damage mars an otherwise pretty, scarce variety.
Everyone knows that once you've gotten worked up about a problem coin you rarely get over it.
So, I'm stuck holding the bag I think. I guess it's time I moved on.
I appreciate the advice and opinions from everyone.
Lance.
- Jim
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I heard back from NGC. The matter was taken to the President who said the coin warrants its AU58 grade and that NGC would be willing to reholder it at that grade.
I have not yet called Heritage and am on the fence.
Thanks for the advice.
Lance. >>
Sorry to hear this Lance.
I personally think you've been stuck holding the bag. >>
Yes, it seems I have.
Putting it back in a holder and selling it doesn't sit right with me unless there is full disclosure. Which means I'd likely take a loss.
NGC will go so far as reslabbing it but I don't see any great benefit. The coin and the price paid are unchanged.
Heritage might feign interest in my story but I can't see them doing much. I might still call them but what is a reasonable expectation? Money back? Buy back? I don't see it.
The ding across the rim and star are significant enough to spoil the coin for me. It doesn't feel like a bag hit or common circulation damage. Something unusual struck it, large and narrow and straight, and the damage mars an otherwise pretty, scarce variety.
Everyone knows that once you've gotten worked up about a problem coin you rarely get over it.
So, I'm stuck holding the bag I think. I guess it's time I moved on.
I appreciate the advice and opinions from everyone.
Lance. >>
Lance, this is an interesting situation, that's for sure. I personally like the prong holders since they allow us to see more of the rim, but it is interesting to note that it can also hide flaws such as it did with your coin. And I could be wrong, but IMO I don't really see where Heritage has much liability for what a TPG holder masks - it is the consignor that should have informed Heritage of this flaw, so perhaps if you contacted Heritage, they could go back to their consignor for some sort of compensation (but of course, it may be that the consignor was not the one who submitted the coin and also had no clue as to what was hidden behind the prong).
In any event, I think it wouldn't hurt to send a link to this discussion to both NGC and Heritage so they can see how their customers and potential customers are reacting to this specific issue. Perhaps it will cause NGC to be more alert to how they place coins in their holders.
As an aside, I submitted a penny with three clipped planchets to NGC and it just so happened that the prong holders were in the exact same location as two of the clips, which were not major clips, so I asked them to rotate the coin so the clips were more prevalent, and they did.
The Penny Lady®