<< <i>I have no problem with taxing the wealthy. However, they should be taxed the same as you and I. They should not pay an additional penalty for their success, that often comes at great risk. Keep in mind that many of them have more becaused they risked more.
Most entrepreneurs have certainly risked more. But the wealthy that have been connected into the new boyz club over the past 20 yrs have been playing a rigged game without risk as the govt backstops all their significant losses. That includes bankers, hedge funds, and their connected friends. Rather than being additionally taxed, they should be thrown in jail.
Rising interest rates would only provide a short term hit to PM's. It's real interest rates that provide the oomph. Note that during the 2 yrs from 1978 to 1980 interest rates were raised from around 5% to 12%, with no real effect on slowing gold's 3X to 4X increase during that period.
roadrunner >>
The Wall Street crooks are only a small part of the country's wealthy. I have no problem with making the crooks suffer, but I cannot justify making all the wealthy suffer because of the crooks.
Higher interests rates would provide better paying investment alternatives. PMs would suffer from it, as demand would be reduced. A lot of the success with PM investments is a direct result of lack of better performing choices. Higher interest rates will expedite an economic recovery (proven by Paul Volcker), but politicians can only see as far ahead as the next election.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
We are no longer in any postiton to dictate 'our' will to China. In fact, we don't even have a collective understanding of what it is we are trying to do. We seem to want to be everything to everybody. --- We squander enormous sums of money that we do not actually have, so we borrow it and pay the interest so we can continue the pretense that we are rich. 'We', or at least somebody, decided that our wealth was better expended upon such things as the maintanence of 14 carrier groups around the world. We pay for the extravagance of calling ourselves policeman of the world through our antiquated infrastructure, collapsing bridges, pot-holed highways, hysterical 19'th century rail system. Pathetic. ----- We can't patrol our own southern border but we think we can effectively command the South China Sea. Nutso. ------ Representative Weiner is just that; representative of the roman orgy we pretend is our government. Think he really gives much serious thought to improving our lot? Think he's capable of it even if he were so inclined? Or the rest of those flim-flamming hypocrites? They say we get the government we deserve, but frankly we deserve VASTLY better than what we've got. >>
<< <i> It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
China didn't take our jobs. American union bosses gave them to China by refusing to budge on wage and benefit demands. China put in a lower bid and got the contract. That's how business works. >>
Right but sprinkle on a LOT of US government taxes and regulations which are choking the life out of America and American business.
"Greed = why ours jobs were sold out." I don't think it was greed so much as it was just a better business model. The point of operating a for profit enterprise is to make money, legally. With the onerous, multiple levels of tax structure and the recent proliferation of taxing entities, it's like swimming up stream when trying to make a profit with so many people standing in line to siphon the money before you can get it home. If you survive the taxing structure, and you show success with your business model, then you get to deal with attorneys for other interests that would like to get a piece of what you did manage to make through either product liability claims, employee/union demands, government reporting/compliance laws, civil suits and a considerable string of other elements that siphon off profit. Trying to operate a business in this kind of environment is not the best business model, particularly if you can find a better place to do it. That may explain why our home industrial base has dramatically shrunk over the last two years and the tally of new for profit enterprises over the same period is like counting raindrops in the desert. Jobs were not so much sold out as there were better situations to be found for operating a business.
Folks like to wave the flag for creating jobs, providing homes and income for families, good schools for the children, access to health care, and all the other American Ideals but it is just not that simple. Think ,for example, the school union strikes in the north...it's not about educating children, it's about letting a group of employees dictate to the taxpayers how they will be paid and what benefits they will receive but the whole argument was wrapped in "for the children" tape. Looks like the unions won...the response by the teachers was mostly to retire if they were eligible. The children?...well, they'll get by.
Take the oil and gas bidnes, and the moratorium on exploration, would you want to try and do an o&g business in this environment? The answer is no, it would be much easier to have this type of enterprise in some other country that had a more business friendly government than in a country that is openly discouraging carbon based energy exploration and production. O&G is one of the few big money businesses in the world that is a critical industry as well as very profitable. Wouldn't you move that for profit enterprise somewhere else, if a better situation existed? Oh yes, don't forget that O&G is a huge employeer. Are they greedy? Would it be better if all the O&G were all run out of the US and taxed into oblivion? Well? Wanna pay $12 a gal for unleaded from Dubai and still have no O&G jobs growth here? Well, do ya'?
Take health care legislation...it will suck a considerably greater amount of money out of the business if you have permanent employees. Offering healthcare to employees used to be a very nice and almost assumed benefit; now, not so much because it's way too expensive on the business model and a huge drag on the profits. Under normal circumstances, it would not be too hard on a business to offer this benefit and that's why it used to be part of the deal of being an employee but the costs have skyrocketed and it's just way too expensive a benefit to offer. If you were a for profit business, what would you do when faced with the government regulated increase in overhead via health care legislation? Oh, but it's for the people to get access to health care...actually it's much more complicated than that and it's much more about keeping those in the health care industry well heeled. Companies will be glad to deliver health care to the people as long as they get paid because, remember, this is for profit; we're trying to make money here. If we can run 60% of the business out of a call center and do the records processing in Jakarta for $2 an hour instead of a highrise in Cleveland for $65/hr (with benefits and overhead) then give me the phone number.
Just like the Boomer Model being dead, the Henry Ford business model is dead as well. It's a new day out there and those that can compete and survive, will. But the old rules are only in the history books now. For some reason, folks recently have taken the mindset that the businesses exist for the benefit of the people and not for the businesses. It's not that way. Greed is a factor but no more than just trying to make a profit, that's why they call them businesses.
<< <i>If you could buy .999 Chinese gold at a good discount to .999 American gold, you'd go for the Chinese gold and no one could blame you. It goes back to the old "that ain't right" unless it affects your money >>
Very true but what the majority American buyers don't understand is the Chinese gold looks like .999 but is only .5oo. Most products from oversea are throw away produces. They are made so cheaply that once they have an issue with it, it's better just to throw it away and buy a new one, especially electronics. That is what I lked about the older Carver/Sunfire electronics. Built in WA State and they run, and run, and run. If there is an issue (generally the Cap's start leaking), they can be repaired.
Take clothing, like jeans. Levi jeans use to wear like iron but now they fall apart and are so thin, they just don't last. A lot of Danner boots, Columbia Sportware and LaCrosse boots that use to last forever when they were made here or Canada are now junk and fall apart, don’t fit right, and made cheaply because they are now made overseas. Even Carhart moved their production oversea and our crews say they are now junk. You pay a premium for the name but you had as might as well buy Kirkland jean as they are just as good.
I do not believe unions are to blame. In fact, unions help shape fair wages, working conditions, safety we all take for granted today. Even if all manufacturing worker made the Federal minimum wage rate, they would still be paid too much to compete with the "penny a day" worker overseas.
It is funny how in the 50's - early 70's, America seem to be doing fine, growing, wages paid you allowed you to buy your products that were made here in the US. But, then came the wealth race and owners didn't want to pay a fair wage to product a great product. So, they bought off the Fed Gov and globalization became the norm, jobs went away and social programs grew.
On top of this, what jobs that are still here are being taken by the invasion from the south. Again, an endless supply of low wageworkers are driving down the living wage here in the US and increasing the requirement for more social programs.
<< <i> It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
China didn't take our jobs. American union bosses gave them to China by refusing to budge on wage and benefit demands. China put in a lower bid and got the contract. That's how business works. >>
US industry is incompetent and run for the benefit of the hired management which is an old boys club. They're exceedingly wasteful and no one is respon- sible. Unions are irrelevent and no longer even represent the workers.
Jobs go overseas because doing things less efficiently can often net some banker a profit.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. Since you are all such good customers, he said, I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
I only got a dollar out of the $20, declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, but he got $10!
Yeah, that’s right, exclaimed the fifth man. I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!
That’s true!! shouted the seventh man. Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!
Wait a minute, yelled the first four men in unison. We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics, University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
Anyway, there's your lesson on bar stool economics! >>
This isn't a good analogy and the rules were changed anyway.
Greed was declared to be good in 1984 and part of the decree said rich people should get 50 and 75% tax breaks. Where the total tax bill for someone might have been $2,000,000 before it was now only $1,000,000. Most people got a two or three percent cut. Most of us had to get trickled on to get anything at all. Rich peoples' money was declared to be more valuable than poor peoples' money.
This opened up the door for the old boys club that owns Washington to give each other huge raises since it's the same individuals who operate all the big inefficient companies. Before Greed came into effect it did little good to get a $3,000,000 bonus because most of it would just go to taxes so they were forced to do old fashioned things like giving the profits to the people who actually owned the company in the form of dividends and to reinvest some of the profits just in case they weren't able to run the company into the ground and deploy their golden parachutes. Now most of the profitys go to the few and the companies are owned by institutions so no one is responsible for getting dividends. They bid up the price of each others' stock to hide the fact it's all worthless paper in the era of Greed.
We've had startling increases in productivity which would automatically trans- late into huge increases in individual wealth if not for the fact that as fast as productivity increases the economy is being destroyed by waste, inefficiency, and greed.
<< <i> Obama requested spending of $3.83 trillion for FY 2011, Bill Gates is worth ~56 billion, the richest American.
We require close to 11 billion a day in spending, execute Gates, confiscate all his wealth and you get 5 days of Federal spending.
The problem is spending not taxation unfortunately.
I once read that the richest man in Rome could fund the budget for one year.
Maybe the rich should pay more taxes, but you will never notice it, it will be gone in the blink of an eye. >>
When the rich get to vote each other pay raises and bonuses there is nothing to stop them other than the limits of their greed if they aren't heavily taxed. This great wealth accumulation isn't going toward creating new generators of wealth but it is going toward buying more favors and more concentration of wealth. How many new big companies have sprung up in the last twenty years? None. All the new big companies are in growth industries while existing industry continues to consolidate and shut down benefiting only the manage- ment. Companies spend more money to stifle competition than in R & D.
We do live in an unusual time when change in the economy and industry comes at a fast pace so perhaps we shouldn't be spending a lot of money on building new auto companies. Maybe we shouldn't even wonder why with gasoline disappearing and natural gas prices plummeting that no one is producing fuel cell technology for cars.
But current law and current conditions are concentrating all the money in a very very few hands and to date it seems to be doing very very few people any good at all. It's frightening to hear the way leaders talk in an age that human life means so little and money means everything. What is to become of the last couple gener- ations of Americans who were deprived of an education. Why do people find these conditions acceptable?
<< <i> Maybe the rich should pay more taxes, but you will never notice it, it will be gone in the blink of an eye. >>
I strongly agree that you can't balance the budget on the backs of the rich.
But if you want this mess fixed we need to educate those four drinking for free so they can contribute to society and contribute their taxes. We need to stop the massive waste and inefficiency generated by funneling all the wealth to the rich. We need to fix education so workers can contribute more to their employers and bear more responsibility for their jobs and be given broader job duties. We need to reward the people making improvements rather than those finding innovative ways to milk more money from the system while laying the risk on anyone else.
Until the schools work again we are in a very precarious position. We not only are less able to take care of ourselves but more at risk of electing leaders who don't have our best interests at heart. It doesn't make sense to teach large percentages of the population to hate learning and matriculate with no more to offer than being a runner for a drug dealer.
<< <i>Too many people (and corporations) in the US shop by price, not by the country of origin. Whether that is 'right' or 'wrong' is all opinion.
An example: Right now, APMEX is selling a $500 face bag of Walkers for $13,423.67, so $1K face would be $26,847 or so. Tulving, on the other hand, is selling 2 x $500 face bags of Walkers for $25,976 delivered. If you were in the market for such an item, why on earth would you buy from APMEX?
Would American consumers pay an extra buck or two for a T-shirt made in the USA? Would a car company pay an extra $10-15 for a wiring harness just because it was made here?
While I support keeping work in the US, I'm not sure how Americans would react if all of a sudden prices went up 10, 15, 20% across the board for damn near everything they buy.
A slippery slope indeed. >>
Goods from China will be up around 7% this fall. Look for them to be up over 10% in 2012. This is happening and the US consumer will have no choice but to pay up in some regard. The RMB is appreciating and the Chinese are living better. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Goods from China will be up around 7% this fall. Look for them to be up over 10% in 2012. This is happening and the US consumer will have no choice but to pay up in some regard. The RMB is appreciating and the Chinese are living better. MJ >>
The sad thing is we are stuck paying the higher price as the mjority of the manufactures is off-shore. Prices could double and we will just have to pay.
<< <i>American worker can not compete with SLAVE labor.
Sure can. Like it or not, unions have to compete. >>
So, your answer it to have the American worker make $1.00 a day? >>
The cost to transport goods across the ocean is much more than the labor cost to produce those goods. Americans could be paid a lot more than $1. Also, tell the health insurance companies to take their rate increases and shove them. This would greatly reduce the cost of labor in this country. Elminate the "take" of the union bosses and elected officials and allow private (non-union) companies to compete for contracts. Tell workers to actually save money and stop relying on pensions for retirement. Reducing the costs of health insurance and retirement benefits would make the American worker a competitive machine that would have no match in any country.
Don't forget to require manditory reductions in the price of gas to $0.37 a gallon, 2500 Sq Ft houses to $20,000, new cars to $3,500, steaks to $0.99 a pound and movies at the theater to $0.25 (two for that price). If you want to be paid like you live in 1965, you need to reduce the price to live to that of 1965.
I am not a union worker but I am curious what people think a union qualified electrician, carpenter, plumbers, automakers, etc s/b paid?
By the way, except for the electricians and plumbers, all the other private contraction jobs in my area are non-union, generally illegals who work for minimum wage, unless it is for the government where prevailing wages are required.
Are all of you who are not union willing to take the same reduction in your standard of living by taking a similar pay cut or be taxed more to reduce what you take home to push you wealth back to that of 1965?
Are all of you who are not union willing to take the same reduction in your standard of living by taking a similar pay cut
Does taking a pay cut necessarily mean a reduction in standard of living?
My buddy is a union electrician. Has 12 years experience. He makes $30/hour + benes or about $75k/year. 50% above the average American wage and 100% above the average for our county. Should he get paid that much? Keep in mind, he is only in his early 30s. If he gets a 5%/year increase he will be making $49/hour + benes in 10 years. Most of his work in the last 5 years has been on hospitals and schools. So his salary is paid through my taxes. How much are you willing to pay him?
We could give everyone a 100% pay raise, but they still wouldnt live any better because all costs would rise.
If we are not going to reduce wages, then we must hold them stable. In time, the wages of our foreign competitors will rise making our productions costs relatively cheaper. If we raise everyones wages then we are only making the "slave labor" more attractive.
<< <i>Are all of you who are not union willing to take the same reduction in your standard of living by taking a similar pay cut or be taxed more to reduce what you take home to push you wealth back to that of 1965? >>
It's a fact that unionized labor pays better. If non-union workers took a similar cut as union workers did, then union workers would continue to be paid more than non-union workers.
Prices are based on two things: (1) cost to produce (2) what the consumer is willing, or able, to pay. Reduce (or do not increase) wages and the cost of production will come down (or remain constant). Competition will then drive prices down as cost to produce is lowered (or prices will remain constant if wages are held steady).
I never could understand the need to raise minimum wage. All it accomplishes is higher prices with the minimum wage earner seeing no improvement in his standard of living. It also waters down the earning/spending power of those who make more than minimum wage.
Paying higher wages results in a higher cost of production and then higher price and only creates the need to spend more more money for the same standard of living. It also increases your income tax liability. The only time getting a raise is beneficial is when you are the only one getting it. The solution is not bringing non-union workers up to the same pay as union workers. The solution is reducing the pay of union workers. The first raises the cost of production (and prices) the other lowers the cost of production. In a competitive market prices would fall if production costs are reduced.
If you look at the cost of living in countries of "slave" labor, the "slave" labor wages are not so bad. The reason they can work for less is because they need less. Answer to our delima is to need less by bring prices down via reductions in costs of production. Adding to our high cost of production in outrageous government intervention and regulation and taxes on business. The three major business costs that require us to have to pay more for our goods and services are labor and benefits, government regulation and business taxes. By having to pay more we need more pay. It's a vicious circle that has driven production overseas where these costs are lower. While businesses here make all the profit they can squeeze, competition in a free market will send consumers to the best producer who offers the best price.
<< <i> Do you feel baseball, football, basketball, soccer, ect., players are worth the kind of money they are making today. >>
They get paid what the market will tolerate. This includes what ticket holders are willing to pay and what advertisers are willing to pay. Their union is tasked with squeezing the highest pay possible from the owners. When the owners won't budge, the union's power creates a shut down, when in reality the owner should be able to say "take the offer or go find another employer." The right to strike and shut a business down removes competion in labor. Competion in labor would bring outrageous pay to reasonable levels.
The "justification" for modern day labor unions really boils down to just negotiating pay and benefits. Safety in the workplace is governed by law and regulation. Unions, however, will use "safety" to require more employees than needed to perform a task.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
"The only growth industry we seem to excel at, is producing soldiers to die and be maimed in foreign wars, that are
of dubious value to our National Security or our National economy."
Agreed, bring them ALL home right now. Let's concentrate on our own business for a while and stay out of theirs; there's plenty of things here that could use some attention.
<< <i>My buddy is a union electrician. Has 12 years experience. He makes $30/hour + benes or about $75k/year. 50% above the average American wage and 100% above the average for our county. Should he get paid that much? Keep in mind, he is only in his early 30s. If he gets a 5%/year increase he will be making $49/hour + benes in 10 years. Most of his work in the last 5 years has been on hospitals and schools. So his salary is paid through my taxes. How much are you willing to pay him? >>
So, you would feel comfortable having an average citizen wire your house?
"So, you would feel comfortable having an average citizen wire your house?"
Actually, the states issue electricians licenses to those that have passed an exam, completed journeyman experience requirements, and have been certified by the regulatory entity (usually the state) to do electrical work. There is no union membership required to be certified nor is a union membership required to do the work in a competent manner.
<< <i>"Why don't you become an electrician rather than complaining about how much your friend make as it appears he must make more money than you."
What? Don't recall complaining about my pay nor making any comment on my friend...where did you get this from? >>
Sorry!!
I got ya mixed up with cohodk.
As for his comment, there is a lot that plays into these income figures. If he is in the LA or NY areas, he probably starving at 75k a year. He might be sitting fat in bugtussel USA.
Frankly, I really don't think 75k is all that much today. Say you made 20k in 1970. To have the same purchasing power today, you would have to make $112k. His 75k today is equal to about 13k in 1970. But, then again, you could a fairly nice 2,000 Sq Ft house for 20k in 1970 in my area. CA or NY, I doubt it.
20 years ago one of my customers told me that "they" are reducing the United States while simultanously Raising the standards in China and elsewhere. And they will be dumbing down the population so the average joe in the US will complain about "them over there" rather then look themselves in the mirror as being the problem. Who is they? He told me the Bilderbergers, Bankers blah blah blah. I laughed.
I always try to buy Made in USA products (auto don't count though both of mine were assembled in the US, the parts are from all over the place) and shop the locally owned stores (no WALLYMART for me). Finding "Made in USA" products is the challange!
I bought a couple "Columbia Sportswear" shirts for to use fishing. I have had good luck with Columbia where in the past and it lasted a long time. I paid top dollar - full retail for these shirts passing over another manufacture that was 1/2 the price thinking I was buying USA products (like my Columbia Parka I have had 10+ and still going strong). When they arrived (ordered online), they were in plastic bags that said "Made in Vietnam."
WTF? So, I took one out and they almost looked like seconds. So, back they went.
<< American worker can not compete with SLAVE labor.
Sure can. Like it or not, unions have to compete. >>
So, your answer it to have the American worker make $1.00 a day?
I am not pessimistic about the American worker being inept and a victim. I am well aware of the competitive issues of cheap foreign goods, as I have competed head-to-head with them daily for 20 years.
I can, did, and will do it. The rest of America can too.
However, if your answer is to protect the middle class by limiting imports and artificially raising prices... then by all means lets start with the product I sell for a living.
<< <i> Do you feel baseball, football, basketball, soccer, ect., players are worth the kind of money they are making today. >>
They get paid what the market will tolerate.. >>
No. Just like CEO's their pay comes from outside. Taxpayers pay for their stadia. New car buyers pay for the games becvause every single automotive manufacturer who sells in this country advertises during the game. Nearly 40% of the cost of a new car is advertising. Probably less than 15% is the pay of unionized workers. If you want savings quit having taxpayers and car owners pay their in- credible salaries and the obscene profits of the owners who name the stadium after themselves while taxpayers fund it.
Most of the stupid pay is being appropriated from people who have no control over how much they contribute. Consumers are forced to buy garbage while CEO's get larger and larger bonuses as pro- ducts are cheapened. When the products get bad enough it causes the golden parachutes to de- ploy.
<< <i>What you make has a direct proportion as to where you live. I just feel that this is the problem today relative to what you make. We should not
buy anything not made in America too as a way to incourage production increases in USA production. If I have a choice between our products
and our products made here, I always buy USA even though it is more expensive. If this would be done by more people we would see and
increase in employment and better times for everyone. >>
A-MEN !
Sometimes, it's a real challenge.
I gave in and bought a vise yesterday at Lowes. ALL of the vises there were made in China, NO choice. So instead of going somewhere else, I bought one, took it home, bolted it to the workbench, and it promptly broke. How the heck can a vise break?
So I had to take it back and go through that hassle....On Sunday, I went to the flea mkt and bought a used, nicer, bigger, USA vise for a lot less.
Depends. Some cheap foreign products are promoted, and American workers who via against said competition don't count when it's time to "save the middle class". Others? Well, it's a national crisis if they have to actually work and compete. What was that old quote: "Some Comrades are more equal than others." Just be sure you are on the correct side of the equation!
20 years ago one of my customers told me that "they" are reducing the United States while simultanously Raising the standards in China and elsewhere. And they will be dumbing down the population so the average joe in the US will complain about "them over there" rather then look themselves in the mirror as being the problem. Who is they? He told me the Bilderbergers, Bankers blah blah blah. I laughed.
A bizarro world possibility where the Chinese send their manufacturing jobs to the U.S. because of cheap labor costs (we become a third world country) and we start the process all over again.
Go to Germany where they make about everything they use themselves. They did not sell themselves out to China and cheap labor.
What you make has a direct proportion as to where you live. I just feel that this is the problem today relative to what you make. We should not
buy anything not made in America too as a way to incourage production increases in USA production. If I have a choice between our products
and our products made here, I always buy USA even though it is more expensive. If this would be done by more people we would see and
I bought a metal pruner made in China made of inferior metals. Of course it broke after a few uses. The cost of cheap goods is they do not last, so you have to buy more.
"The cost of cheap goods is they do not last, so you have to buy more."
Not a bad business model, you must admit. As long as the walmarts of this world market their chinese goods bought on the cheap then we will be awash with inferior products. The problem is that the masses with their gov. checks won't pay $20 for a good lawn rake when they can get "the same thing" for $7.99 at home depot. Of course, you can buy an "extended warranty" on your purchases and if it breaks, they'll just give you a new one...hey, thanks, but the last one you sold me sucked so why would I want another one? It would be better if we had good products and paid a couple of dollars more. The best export we have to counter the cheap chinese imports is KFC and MickeyD's...GIGO.
China manufactor's to specs.If you want something nice and you will pay for it you will get it. If Lowe's wants to retail a vice for $6, then the vice will have $1.50 worth of materials. It will fall apart sooner then later. If they want a vice to retail for $25 it will be better made. Same with shears, shoes, jeans etc, The retailer and buyer set the specs. The wholesaler/agent contracts with the factory based on that. The retailer and/or wholesaler inspects the goods before they are shipped. At least they are supposed to.
As far as price goes, most Americans will just not pay up at the end of the day. Most say they will but when it's check out time it tends to be a different story. This is why the buy Made in America mantra gains no traction. I also seem to remember the cr@p cars the US produced in the 70's, 80's, 90's and even the past ten years. The highest ticketed price most folks buy that were Made in the US items were by in large hunks of junk. They tended to fall apart and Japan was there to pick up the pieces. We still have not recovered. Made in America car quality looks to have finally caught up with the rest of the globe. I may buy my first new US car yet............Cookware. paint, funiture and some apparel I buy made in the USA. Most other goods I favor Germany when push comes to shove.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>As far as price goes, most Americans will just not pay up at the end of the day. Most say they will but when it's check out time it tends to be a different story. This is why the buy Made in America mantra gains no traction. >>
That's why WalMart remains the leading retailer. The consumer drives the market and as seen with chinese goods, he also drives the economy.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Cookware. paint, funiture and some apparel I buy made in the USA. Most other goods I favor Germany when push comes to shove. >>
I with you.
Furniture - generally Amish, La-Z-Boy or other US manufacture.
Apparel - getting tough for everyday wear. That is what surprised me with Columbia Sportswear, LaCrosse and Danner Boots, though you can still get a couple styles of Danner boots that are made in the US. My biggest gripe is these companies still charge high prices for their products, mainly just for their name. They are fooling people who bought their US top quality products in years passed to buy their junk today. I know, I harp a lot about Danner but I had a pair that lasted me 10 years before my arch fell and I couldn't wear them anymore. Both my boys wore them before they out grew them and then I gave them to a friend son who again out grew them. I am guessing they had over 15 years on them. In the mean while, I bought similar boots from Danner and they lasted maybe a year before they started leaking and maybe another year before they started falling apart. In the mean while, my old boots were still in use.
Cutlery - German is my fav!
I always watch for yard sales that have tools. Generally, if you are lucky, you can find US made tools. I always buy any US made C-clamp I can find. They are generally rolled steel rather than being cast like the cheap imports (you don't even want to know how many cast C-clamps I have broke).
HERE IS A NEWS FLASH...WHEN THE ONLY WAY TO STAVE OFF ECONOMIC DISASTER CAUSED BY DEBT IS TO CREATE MORE DEBT OR INCREASE DEBT - WE HAVE ALREADY REACHED ECONOMIC DISASTER!!!!
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<< <i>HERE IS A NEWS FLASH...WHEN THE ONLY WAY TO STAVE OFF ECONOMIC DISASTER CAUSED BY DEBT IS TO CREATE MORE DEBT OR INCREASE DEBT - WE HAVE ALREADY REACHED ECONOMIC DISASTER!!!! >>
Don't panic - Washington has it under control. All they have to do is borrow money to pay the interest on money they borrowed earlier.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>HERE IS A NEWS FLASH...WHEN THE ONLY WAY TO STAVE OFF ECONOMIC DISASTER CAUSED BY DEBT IS TO CREATE MORE DEBT OR INCREASE DEBT - WE HAVE ALREADY REACHED ECONOMIC DISASTER!!!! >>
Sad but very true.
American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page
Comments
<< <i>I have no problem with taxing the wealthy. However, they should be taxed the same as you and I. They should not pay an additional penalty for their success, that often comes at great risk. Keep in mind that many of them have more becaused they risked more.
Most entrepreneurs have certainly risked more. But the wealthy that have been connected into the new boyz club over the past 20 yrs have been playing a rigged game without
risk as the govt backstops all their significant losses. That includes bankers, hedge funds, and their connected friends. Rather than being additionally taxed, they should be thrown in
jail.
Rising interest rates would only provide a short term hit to PM's. It's real interest rates that provide the oomph. Note that during the 2 yrs from 1978 to 1980 interest rates were
raised from around 5% to 12%, with no real effect on slowing gold's 3X to 4X increase during that period.
roadrunner >>
The Wall Street crooks are only a small part of the country's wealthy. I have no problem with making the crooks suffer, but I cannot justify making all the wealthy suffer because of the crooks.
Higher interests rates would provide better paying investment alternatives. PMs would suffer from it, as demand would be reduced. A lot of the success with PM investments is a direct result of lack of better performing choices. Higher interest rates will expedite an economic recovery (proven by Paul Volcker), but politicians can only see as far ahead as the next election.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>
<< <i>It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
We are no longer in any postiton to dictate 'our' will to China. In fact, we don't even have a collective understanding of what it is we are trying to do. We seem to want to be everything to everybody.
---
We squander enormous sums of money that we do not actually have, so we borrow it and pay the interest so we can continue the pretense that we are rich. 'We', or at least somebody, decided that our wealth was better expended upon such things as the maintanence of 14 carrier groups around the world. We pay for the extravagance of calling ourselves policeman of the world through our antiquated infrastructure, collapsing bridges, pot-holed highways, hysterical 19'th century rail system. Pathetic.
-----
We can't patrol our own southern border but we think we can effectively command the South China Sea. Nutso.
------
Representative Weiner is just that; representative of the roman orgy we pretend is our government. Think he really gives much serious thought to improving our lot? Think he's capable of it even if he were so inclined? Or the rest of those flim-flamming hypocrites? They say we get the government we deserve, but frankly we deserve VASTLY better than what we've got. >>
Excellent and right on the money
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i> It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
China didn't take our jobs. American union bosses gave them to China by refusing to budge on wage and benefit demands. China put in a lower bid and got the contract. That's how business works. >>
Right but sprinkle on a LOT of US government taxes and regulations which are choking the life out of America and American business.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I don't think it was greed so much as it was just a better business model. The point of operating a for profit enterprise is to make money, legally. With the onerous, multiple levels of tax structure and the recent proliferation of taxing entities, it's like swimming up stream when trying to make a profit with so many people standing in line to siphon the money before you can get it home. If you survive the taxing structure, and you show success with your business model, then you get to deal with attorneys for other interests that would like to get a piece of what you did manage to make through either product liability claims, employee/union demands, government reporting/compliance laws, civil suits and a considerable string of other elements that siphon off profit. Trying to operate a business in this kind of environment is not the best business model, particularly if you can find a better place to do it. That may explain why our home industrial base has dramatically shrunk over the last two years and the tally of new for profit enterprises over the same period is like counting raindrops in the desert. Jobs were not so much sold out as there were better situations to be found for operating a business.
Folks like to wave the flag for creating jobs, providing homes and income for families, good schools for the children, access to health care, and all the other American Ideals but it is just not that simple. Think ,for example, the school union strikes in the north...it's not about educating children, it's about letting a group of employees dictate to the taxpayers how they will be paid and what benefits they will receive but the whole argument was wrapped in "for the children" tape. Looks like the unions won...the response by the teachers was mostly to retire if they were eligible. The children?...well, they'll get by.
Take the oil and gas bidnes, and the moratorium on exploration, would you want to try and do an o&g business in this environment? The answer is no, it would be much easier to have this type of enterprise in some other country that had a more business friendly government than in a country that is openly discouraging carbon based energy exploration and production. O&G is one of the few big money businesses in the world that is a critical industry as well as very profitable. Wouldn't you move that for profit enterprise somewhere else, if a better situation existed? Oh yes, don't forget that O&G is a huge employeer. Are they greedy? Would it be better if all the O&G were all run out of the US and taxed into oblivion? Well? Wanna pay $12 a gal for unleaded from Dubai and still have no O&G jobs growth here? Well, do ya'?
Take health care legislation...it will suck a considerably greater amount of money out of the business if you have permanent employees. Offering healthcare to employees used to be a very nice and almost assumed benefit; now, not so much because it's way too expensive on the business model and a huge drag on the profits. Under normal circumstances, it would not be too hard on a business to offer this benefit and that's why it used to be part of the deal of being an employee but the costs have skyrocketed and it's just way too expensive a benefit to offer. If you were a for profit business, what would you do when faced with the government regulated increase in overhead via health care legislation? Oh, but it's for the people to get access to health care...actually it's much more complicated than that and it's much more about keeping those in the health care industry well heeled. Companies will be glad to deliver health care to the people as long as they get paid because, remember, this is for profit; we're trying to make money here. If we can run 60% of the business out of a call center and do the records processing in Jakarta for $2 an hour instead of a highrise in Cleveland for $65/hr (with benefits and overhead) then give me the phone number.
Just like the Boomer Model being dead, the Henry Ford business model is dead as well. It's a new day out there and those that can compete and survive, will. But the old rules are only in the history books now. For some reason, folks recently have taken the mindset that the businesses exist for the benefit of the people and not for the businesses. It's not that way. Greed is a factor but no more than just trying to make a profit, that's why they call them businesses.
<< <i>If you could buy .999 Chinese gold at a good discount to .999 American gold, you'd go for the Chinese gold and no one could blame you. It goes back to the old "that ain't right" unless it affects your money >>
Very true but what the majority American buyers don't understand is the Chinese gold looks like .999 but is only .5oo. Most products from oversea are throw away produces. They are made so cheaply that once they have an issue with it, it's better just to throw it away and buy a new one, especially electronics. That is what I lked about the older Carver/Sunfire electronics. Built in WA State and they run, and run, and run. If there is an issue (generally the Cap's start leaking), they can be repaired.
Take clothing, like jeans. Levi jeans use to wear like iron but now they fall apart and are so thin, they just don't last. A lot of Danner boots, Columbia Sportware and LaCrosse boots that use to last forever when they were made here or Canada are now junk and fall apart, don’t fit right, and made cheaply because they are now made overseas. Even Carhart moved their production oversea and our crews say they are now junk. You pay a premium for the name but you had as might as well buy Kirkland jean as they are just as good.
I do not believe unions are to blame. In fact, unions help shape fair wages, working conditions, safety we all take for granted today. Even if all manufacturing worker made the Federal minimum wage rate, they would still be paid too much to compete with the "penny a day" worker overseas.
It is funny how in the 50's - early 70's, America seem to be doing fine, growing, wages paid you allowed you to buy your products that were made here in the US. But, then came the wealth race and owners didn't want to pay a fair wage to product a great product. So, they bought off the Fed Gov and globalization became the norm, jobs went away and social programs grew.
On top of this, what jobs that are still here are being taken by the invasion from the south. Again, an endless supply of low wageworkers are driving down the living wage here in the US and increasing the requirement for more social programs.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>
<< <i> It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
China didn't take our jobs. American union bosses gave them to China by refusing to budge on wage and benefit demands. China put in a lower bid and got the contract. That's how business works. >>
US industry is incompetent and run for the benefit of the hired management
which is an old boys club. They're exceedingly wasteful and no one is respon-
sible. Unions are irrelevent and no longer even represent the workers.
Jobs go overseas because doing things less efficiently can often net some
banker a profit.
<< <i>Bar Stool Economics
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go
something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw
them a curve. Since you are all such good customers, he said, I’m going to
reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just
$80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that
from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end
up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill
by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each
should pay!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now pay $5
instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25%
savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The tenth now
paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to
drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare
their savings.
I only got a dollar out of the $20, declared the sixth man. He pointed to
the tenth man, but he got $10!
Yeah, that’s right, exclaimed the fifth man. I only saved a dollar, too.
It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!
That’s true!! shouted the seventh man. Why should he get $10 back when I
got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!
Wait a minute, yelled the first four men in unison. We didn’t get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down
and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of
them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax
system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from
a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they
just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
Anyway, there's your lesson on bar stool economics! >>
This isn't a good analogy and the rules were changed anyway.
Greed was declared to be good in 1984 and part of the decree said rich people
should get 50 and 75% tax breaks. Where the total tax bill for someone might have
been $2,000,000 before it was now only $1,000,000. Most people got a two
or three percent cut. Most of us had to get trickled on to get anything at all.
Rich peoples' money was declared to be more valuable than poor peoples' money.
This opened up the door for the old boys club that owns Washington to give
each other huge raises since it's the same individuals who operate all the big
inefficient companies. Before Greed came into effect it did little good to get a
$3,000,000 bonus because most of it would just go to taxes so they were forced
to do old fashioned things like giving the profits to the people who actually owned
the company in the form of dividends and to reinvest some of the profits just in
case they weren't able to run the company into the ground and deploy their
golden parachutes. Now most of the profitys go to the few and the companies
are owned by institutions so no one is responsible for getting dividends. They
bid up the price of each others' stock to hide the fact it's all worthless paper in
the era of Greed.
We've had startling increases in productivity which would automatically trans-
late into huge increases in individual wealth if not for the fact that as fast as
productivity increases the economy is being destroyed by waste, inefficiency,
and greed.
<< <i>
Obama requested spending of $3.83 trillion for FY 2011, Bill Gates is worth ~56 billion, the richest American.
We require close to 11 billion a day in spending, execute Gates, confiscate all his wealth and you get 5 days of Federal spending.
The problem is spending not taxation unfortunately.
I once read that the richest man in Rome could fund the budget for one year.
Maybe the rich should pay more taxes, but you will never notice it, it will be gone in the blink of an eye. >>
When the rich get to vote each other pay raises and bonuses there is nothing to stop them other than the
limits of their greed if they aren't heavily taxed. This great wealth accumulation isn't going toward creating
new generators of wealth but it is going toward buying more favors and more concentration of wealth. How
many new big companies have sprung up in the last twenty years? None. All the new big companies are in
growth industries while existing industry continues to consolidate and shut down benefiting only the manage-
ment. Companies spend more money to stifle competition than in R & D.
We do live in an unusual time when change in the economy and industry comes at a fast pace so perhaps we
shouldn't be spending a lot of money on building new auto companies. Maybe we shouldn't even wonder why
with gasoline disappearing and natural gas prices plummeting that no one is producing fuel cell technology for
cars.
But current law and current conditions are concentrating all the money in a very very few hands and to date
it seems to be doing very very few people any good at all. It's frightening to hear the way leaders talk in an
age that human life means so little and money means everything. What is to become of the last couple gener-
ations of Americans who were deprived of an education. Why do people find these conditions acceptable?
<< <i>
Maybe the rich should pay more taxes, but you will never notice it, it will be gone in the blink of an eye. >>
I strongly agree that you can't balance the budget on the backs of the rich.
But if you want this mess fixed we need to educate those four drinking for free so they
can contribute to society and contribute their taxes. We need to stop the massive waste
and inefficiency generated by funneling all the wealth to the rich. We need to fix education
so workers can contribute more to their employers and bear more responsibility for their jobs
and be given broader job duties. We need to reward the people making improvements rather
than those finding innovative ways to milk more money from the system while laying the risk on
anyone else.
Until the schools work again we are in a very precarious position. We not only are less able to
take care of ourselves but more at risk of electing leaders who don't have our best interests at
heart. It doesn't make sense to teach large percentages of the population to hate learning and
matriculate with no more to offer than being a runner for a drug dealer.
<< <i>Too many people (and corporations) in the US shop by price, not by the country of origin. Whether that is 'right' or 'wrong' is all opinion.
An example: Right now, APMEX is selling a $500 face bag of Walkers for $13,423.67, so $1K face would be $26,847 or so. Tulving, on the other hand, is selling 2 x $500 face bags of Walkers for $25,976 delivered. If you were in the market for such an item, why on earth would you buy from APMEX?
Would American consumers pay an extra buck or two for a T-shirt made in the USA? Would a car company pay an extra $10-15 for a wiring harness just because it was made here?
While I support keeping work in the US, I'm not sure how Americans would react if all of a sudden prices went up 10, 15, 20% across the board for damn near everything they buy.
A slippery slope indeed. >>
Goods from China will be up around 7% this fall. Look for them to be up over 10% in 2012. This is happening and the US consumer will have no choice but to pay up in some regard. The RMB is appreciating and the Chinese are living better. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Goods from China will be up around 7% this fall. Look for them to be up over 10% in 2012. This is happening and the US consumer will have no choice but to pay up in some regard. The RMB is appreciating and the Chinese are living better. MJ >>
The sad thing is we are stuck paying the higher price as the mjority of the manufactures is off-shore. Prices could double and we will just have to pay.
Sure can. Like it or not, unions have to compete.
<< <i>American worker can not compete with SLAVE labor.
Sure can. Like it or not, unions have to compete. >>
So, your answer it to have the American worker make $1.00 a day?
<< <i>
<< <i>American worker can not compete with SLAVE labor.
Sure can. Like it or not, unions have to compete. >>
So, your answer it to have the American worker make $1.00 a day? >>
The cost to transport goods across the ocean is much more than the labor cost to produce those goods. Americans could be paid a lot more than $1. Also, tell the health insurance companies to take their rate increases and shove them. This would greatly reduce the cost of labor in this country. Elminate the "take" of the union bosses and elected officials and allow private (non-union) companies to compete for contracts. Tell workers to actually save money and stop relying on pensions for retirement. Reducing the costs of health insurance and retirement benefits would make the American worker a competitive machine that would have no match in any country.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I am not a union worker but I am curious what people think a union qualified electrician, carpenter, plumbers, automakers, etc s/b paid?
By the way, except for the electricians and plumbers, all the other private contraction jobs in my area are non-union, generally illegals who work for minimum wage, unless it is for the government where prevailing wages are required.
Are all of you who are not union willing to take the same reduction in your standard of living by taking a similar pay cut or be taxed more to reduce what you take home to push you wealth back to that of 1965?
Does taking a pay cut necessarily mean a reduction in standard of living?
My buddy is a union electrician. Has 12 years experience. He makes $30/hour + benes or about $75k/year. 50% above the average American wage and 100% above the average for our county. Should he get paid that much? Keep in mind, he is only in his early 30s. If he gets a 5%/year increase he will be making $49/hour + benes in 10 years. Most of his work in the last 5 years has been on hospitals and schools. So his salary is paid through my taxes. How much are you willing to pay him?
We could give everyone a 100% pay raise, but they still wouldnt live any better because all costs would rise.
If we are not going to reduce wages, then we must hold them stable. In time, the wages of our foreign competitors will rise making our productions costs relatively cheaper. If we raise everyones wages then we are only making the "slave labor" more attractive.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
There is no one that should be paid hundreds of dollars an hour to perform their tasks in life.
Do you feel baseball, football, basketball, soccer, ect., players are worth the kind of money they are making today.
I understand it is a system we live under but it's just reached a crazy level where people are making far more than they deserve to make.
and become the worlds intellectual provider of sophisticated services. Also all the new
jobs would replace the lost jobs and at higher pay. We can all see what happened. We
lost much of our industrial base to China and even service sector jobs have moved to
India. In this Country, it takes 150,00 new real jobs just to stay even with the number of
Americans entering the work force. Even with the Government fudging the numbers into
statistical pretzels, it is obvious that we are falling behind each month and badly.
What must take place is a industrialization of the Nation with tax breaks for those companies
that produce products in America with American Labor. We must , as a Nation, make it more
profitable for companies to make things here then abroad.How long can any nation survive when
half the people do not earn enough to pay any taxes and 50 million are on food stamps. 2 year
Unemployment Insurance and yet no jobs are being created. FDR said it best, when he said 1/3
of the Nation was ill fed, ill housed and ill clothed. I am afraid it is a bit worse today. True numbers
of the un employed, under employed and those who have dropped off the system now exceed the
numbers seen in the Great Depression. While our standard of living is going down, much of the rest
of the world is going up. I just wonder sometimes, no matter who happens to be in office, whose
interests are they actually serving?It sure does not seem to be the peoples interest.
Even those of us who wish to buy American made products and are willing to pay a higher price for
the items can not find them. That is because the factories that used to make those items have closed
down, gone out of business or moved overseas. Our tax system seems to reward these companies over
seas and penalizes companies here in America. We do not need tax breaks for the financial sector which
makes nothing, builds nothing and merely creates systems that in fact do nothing but inflate the cost of
everything we use through speculation.
Why are we allowing the big National Banks, who are all actually bankrupt, to inflate the value of their worthless
assets, pay themselves huge bonuses and allow them to get even bigger by gobbling up smaller regional
and local banks. Why not force them to divest like we did Standard Oil those many years ago. Make banks
only state wide and not National.
The only growth industry we seem to excel at, is producing soldiers to die and be maimed in foreign wars, that are
of dubious value to our National Security or our National economy. It all seems so depressing and no one in or out
of Government really seems to know what to do about it. All I know is that we the people seem to ne taking it in the
shorts year after year.
Camelot
<< <i>Are all of you who are not union willing to take the same reduction in your standard of living by taking a similar pay cut or be taxed more to reduce what you take home to push you wealth back to that of 1965? >>
It's a fact that unionized labor pays better. If non-union workers took a similar cut as union workers did, then union workers would continue to be paid more than non-union workers.
Prices are based on two things: (1) cost to produce (2) what the consumer is willing, or able, to pay. Reduce (or do not increase) wages and the cost of production will come down (or remain constant). Competition will then drive prices down as cost to produce is lowered (or prices will remain constant if wages are held steady).
I never could understand the need to raise minimum wage. All it accomplishes is higher prices with the minimum wage earner seeing no improvement in his standard of living. It also waters down the earning/spending power of those who make more than minimum wage.
Paying higher wages results in a higher cost of production and then higher price and only creates the need to spend more more money for the same standard of living. It also increases your income tax liability. The only time getting a raise is beneficial is when you are the only one getting it. The solution is not bringing non-union workers up to the same pay as union workers. The solution is reducing the pay of union workers. The first raises the cost of production (and prices) the other lowers the cost of production. In a competitive market prices would fall if production costs are reduced.
If you look at the cost of living in countries of "slave" labor, the "slave" labor wages are not so bad. The reason they can work for less is because they need less. Answer to our delima is to need less by bring prices down via reductions in costs of production. Adding to our high cost of production in outrageous government intervention and regulation and taxes on business. The three major business costs that require us to have to pay more for our goods and services are labor and benefits, government regulation and business taxes. By having to pay more we need more pay. It's a vicious circle that has driven production overseas where these costs are lower. While businesses here make all the profit they can squeeze, competition in a free market will send consumers to the best producer who offers the best price.
<< <i> Do you feel baseball, football, basketball, soccer, ect., players are worth the kind of money they are making today. >>
They get paid what the market will tolerate. This includes what ticket holders are willing to pay and what advertisers are willing to pay. Their union is tasked with squeezing the highest pay possible from the owners. When the owners won't budge, the union's power creates a shut down, when in reality the owner should be able to say "take the offer or go find another employer." The right to strike and shut a business down removes competion in labor. Competion in labor would bring outrageous pay to reasonable levels.
The "justification" for modern day labor unions really boils down to just negotiating pay and benefits. Safety in the workplace is governed by law and regulation. Unions, however, will use "safety" to require more employees than needed to perform a task.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
of dubious value to our National Security or our National economy."
Agreed, bring them ALL home right now. Let's concentrate on our own business for a while and stay out of theirs; there's plenty of things here that could use some attention.
<< <i>There is no one that should be paid hundreds of dollars an hour to perform their tasks in life.
Do you feel baseball, football, basketball, soccer, ect., players are worth the kind of money they are making today.
<< <i>
NO!! Nor do I believe they should play in facilities paid for by the public.
<< <i>My buddy is a union electrician. Has 12 years experience. He makes $30/hour + benes or about $75k/year. 50% above the average American wage and 100% above the average for our county. Should he get paid that much? Keep in mind, he is only in his early 30s. If he gets a 5%/year increase he will be making $49/hour + benes in 10 years. Most of his work in the last 5 years has been on hospitals and schools. So his salary is paid through my taxes. How much are you willing to pay him? >>
So, you would feel comfortable having an average citizen wire your house?
Actually, the states issue electricians licenses to those that have passed an exam, completed journeyman experience requirements, and have been certified by the regulatory entity (usually the state) to do electrical work. There is no union membership required to be certified nor is a union membership required to do the work in a competent manner.
If you are qualified to do a job you should be interested in doing the job correctly and be paid a decent wage for your work but do you feel a
baseball player should make 27 million dollars a year to play a kids game and in most instances act like a kid when he doesn't perform to the
best of his abilities.
What do you do and what was your gross income last year?
Why don't you become an electrician rather than complaining about how much your friend make as it appears he must make more money than you.
What? Don't recall complaining about my pay nor making any comment on my friend...where did you get this from?
<< <i>"Why don't you become an electrician rather than complaining about how much your friend make as it appears he must make more money than you."
What? Don't recall complaining about my pay nor making any comment on my friend...where did you get this from? >>
Sorry!!
I got ya mixed up with cohodk.
As for his comment, there is a lot that plays into these income figures. If he is in the LA or NY areas, he probably starving at 75k a year. He might be sitting fat in bugtussel USA.
Frankly, I really don't think 75k is all that much today. Say you made 20k in 1970. To have the same purchasing power today, you would have to make $112k. His 75k today is equal to about 13k in 1970. But, then again, you could a fairly nice 2,000 Sq Ft house for 20k in 1970 in my area. CA or NY, I doubt it.
Not so funny anymore is it.
Too bad.
Coin's for sale/trade.
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US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
What you make has a direct proportion as to where you live. I just feel that this is the problem today relative to what you make. We should not
buy anything not made in America too as a way to incourage production increases in USA production. If I have a choice between our products
and our products made here, I always buy USA even though it is more expensive. If this would be done by more people we would see and
increase in employment and better times for everyone.
I bought a couple "Columbia Sportswear" shirts for to use fishing. I have had good luck with Columbia where in the past and it lasted a long time. I paid top dollar - full retail for these shirts passing over another manufacture that was 1/2 the price thinking I was buying USA products (like my Columbia Parka I have had 10+ and still going strong). When they arrived (ordered online), they were in plastic bags that said "Made in Vietnam."
WTF? So, I took one out and they almost looked like seconds. So, back they went.
<< <i>What you make has a direct proportion as to where you live. I just feel that this is the problem today relative to what you make. We should not
buy anything not made in America too as a way to incourage production increases in USA production. If I have a choice between our products
and our products made here, I always buy USA even though it is more expensive. If this would be done by more people we would see and
increase in employment and better times for everyone. >>
I have a very hard time finding anything made only in america!!
Sure can. Like it or not, unions have to compete. >>
So, your answer it to have the American worker make $1.00 a day?
I am not pessimistic about the American worker being inept and a victim. I am well aware of the competitive issues of cheap foreign goods, as I have competed head-to-head with them daily for 20 years.
I can, did, and will do it. The rest of America can too.
However, if your answer is to protect the middle class by limiting imports and artificially raising prices... then by all means lets start with the product I sell for a living.
<< <i>
<< <i> Do you feel baseball, football, basketball, soccer, ect., players are worth the kind of money they are making today. >>
They get paid what the market will tolerate.. >>
No. Just like CEO's their pay comes from outside. Taxpayers pay for their stadia. New car buyers
pay for the games becvause every single automotive manufacturer who sells in this country advertises
during the game. Nearly 40% of the cost of a new car is advertising. Probably less than 15% is the
pay of unionized workers. If you want savings quit having taxpayers and car owners pay their in-
credible salaries and the obscene profits of the owners who name the stadium after themselves while
taxpayers fund it.
Most of the stupid pay is being appropriated from people who have no control over how much they
contribute. Consumers are forced to buy garbage while CEO's get larger and larger bonuses as pro-
ducts are cheapened. When the products get bad enough it causes the golden parachutes to de-
ploy.
<< <i>What you make has a direct proportion as to where you live. I just feel that this is the problem today relative to what you make. We should not
buy anything not made in America too as a way to incourage production increases in USA production. If I have a choice between our products
and our products made here, I always buy USA even though it is more expensive. If this would be done by more people we would see and
increase in employment and better times for everyone. >>
A-MEN !
Sometimes, it's a real challenge.
I gave in and bought a vise yesterday at Lowes. ALL of the vises there were made in China, NO choice. So instead of going somewhere else, I bought one, took it home, bolted it to the workbench, and it promptly broke. How the heck can a vise break?
So I had to take it back and go through that hassle....On Sunday, I went to the flea mkt and bought a used, nicer, bigger, USA vise for a lot less.
<< <i>There's not much here about the consumer's responsibility in all of this mess. >>
Folks forget that they have power as a citizen and as a consumer. They completely blow off the former and mindlessly go about the later.
A bizarro world possibility where the Chinese send their manufacturing jobs to the U.S. because of cheap labor costs (we become a third world country) and we start the process all over again.
Go to Germany where they make about everything they use themselves. They did not sell themselves out to China and cheap labor.
Box of 20
buy anything not made in America too as a way to incourage production increases in USA production. If I have a choice between our products
and our products made here, I always buy USA even though it is more expensive. If this would be done by more people we would see and
I bought a metal pruner made in China made of inferior metals. Of course it broke after a few uses. The cost of cheap goods is they do not last, so you have to buy more.
Box of 20
I agree with that and prefer to buy American whenever at all possible as it saves me money in the long run. If everyone would do this we
would be a lot better off.
Not a bad business model, you must admit. As long as the walmarts of this world market their chinese goods bought on the cheap then we will be awash with inferior products. The problem is that the masses with their gov. checks won't pay $20 for a good lawn rake when they can get "the same thing" for $7.99 at home depot. Of course, you can buy an "extended warranty" on your purchases and if it breaks, they'll just give you a new one...hey, thanks, but the last one you sold me sucked so why would I want another one? It would be better if we had good products and paid a couple of dollars more. The best export we have to counter the cheap chinese imports is KFC and MickeyD's...GIGO.
As far as price goes, most Americans will just not pay up at the end of the day. Most say they will but when it's check out time it tends to be a different story. This is why the buy Made in America mantra gains no traction. I also seem to remember the cr@p cars the US produced in the 70's, 80's, 90's and even the past ten years. The highest ticketed price most folks buy that were Made in the US items were by in large hunks of junk. They tended to fall apart and Japan was there to pick up the pieces. We still have not recovered. Made in America car quality looks to have finally caught up with the rest of the globe. I may buy my first new US car yet............Cookware. paint, funiture and some apparel I buy made in the USA. Most other goods I favor Germany when push comes to shove.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>As far as price goes, most Americans will just not pay up at the end of the day. Most say they will but when it's check out time it tends to be a different story. This is why the buy Made in America mantra gains no traction. >>
That's why WalMart remains the leading retailer. The consumer drives the market and as seen with chinese goods, he also drives the economy.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Cookware. paint, funiture and some apparel I buy made in the USA. Most other goods I favor Germany when push comes to shove. >>
I with you.
Furniture - generally Amish, La-Z-Boy or other US manufacture.
Apparel - getting tough for everyday wear. That is what surprised me with Columbia Sportswear, LaCrosse and Danner Boots, though you can still get a couple styles of Danner boots that are made in the US. My biggest gripe is these companies still charge high prices for their products, mainly just for their name. They are fooling people who bought their US top quality products in years passed to buy their junk today. I know, I harp a lot about Danner but I had a pair that lasted me 10 years before my arch fell and I couldn't wear them anymore. Both my boys wore them before they out grew them and then I gave them to a friend son who again out grew them. I am guessing they had over 15 years on them. In the mean while, I bought similar boots from Danner and they lasted maybe a year before they started leaking and maybe another year before they started falling apart. In the mean while, my old boots were still in use.
Cutlery - German is my fav!
I always watch for yard sales that have tools. Generally, if you are lucky, you can find US made tools. I always buy any US made C-clamp I can find. They are generally rolled steel rather than being cast like the cheap imports (you don't even want to know how many cast C-clamps I have broke).
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mariner67, and Mikes coins
<< <i>HERE IS A NEWS FLASH...WHEN THE ONLY WAY TO STAVE OFF ECONOMIC DISASTER CAUSED BY DEBT IS TO CREATE MORE DEBT OR INCREASE DEBT - WE HAVE ALREADY REACHED ECONOMIC DISASTER!!!! >>
Don't panic - Washington has it under control. All they have to do is borrow money to pay the interest on money they borrowed earlier.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>HERE IS A NEWS FLASH...WHEN THE ONLY WAY TO STAVE OFF ECONOMIC DISASTER CAUSED BY DEBT IS TO CREATE MORE DEBT OR INCREASE DEBT - WE HAVE ALREADY REACHED ECONOMIC DISASTER!!!! >>
Sad but very true.
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