Chinese threaten U.S. not to default
CaptHenway
Posts: 32,322 ✭✭✭✭✭
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
0
Comments
Pikers.
One trillion is just a little more than the California Public Employee Retirement System shortfall. These Chinese folks take things way too seriously. Have a cold one and hang ten baby, we'll sort this out eventually. Relax. Governer Moonbeam is counting on the 10 million Californians who pay taxes to bail out CALPERS.
I don't understand what the Chicoms are so concerned about. Helicopter Ben and Tax cheat Tim are at the helm. What, me worry?
<< <i>The sooner we get off RED's "teet" the better! >>
For you financial guys.... Is it true that if China does something with these debt thingys that they are holding that essentially they can threaten our national security
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
Most of the debt owed to the Chinese was incurred buying crappy products on the cheap.
I wonder when Geithner is going back over to China to explain to their laughing businsess students how the US will be supporting a strong dollar?
Now is when the rubber hits the road, and we are about to see whether or not anyone in Washington has any spine at all.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>The sooner we get off RED's "teet" the better! >>
For you financial guys.... Is it true that if China does something with these debt thingys that they are holding that essentially they can threaten our national security
The only thing China can do to threaten our national security is send over 30 million Chinese troops or drop a few nukes. Anything short of that is just talk.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i> Is it true that if China does something with these debt thingys that they are holding that essentially they can threaten our national security >>
No, it's hyperbole.
What can happen though is that if China decides to stop buying treasuries then someone else needs to step in and buy them so we can run up even more debt in order to finance our spiral down the crapper. The question is who could/would do that? China could also start dumping treasuries on the market causing an even lower outlook for the dollar, and a consequent drop in value. That is a mixed bag though, while it will cause inflation at some level it also makes it cheaper for our exporters and thus could drive a bit more growth in manufacturing and jobs.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
We can not give in to the liberals on this one. We need to get the country back on track and stop this stupid spending.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i> Is it true that if China does something with these debt thingys that they are holding that essentially they can threaten our national security >>
No, it's hyperbole.
What can happen though is that if China decides to stop buying treasuries then someone else needs to step in and buy them so we can run up even more debt in order to finance our spiral down the crapper. The question is who could/would do that? China could also start dumping treasuries on the market causing an even lower outlook for the dollar, and a consequent drop in value. That is a mixed bag though, while it will cause inflation at some level it also makes it cheaper for our exporters and thus could drive a bit more growth in manufacturing and jobs. >>
The question is who could/would do that?
The American people would/will, via the banks and pension funds. There are $4 trillion in money markets. Americans can easily absorb additional debt issuance and/or Chinese selling. But if the Chinese were to sell en mass, interest rates could rise which may actually be beneficial for the dollar. Also if the Chinese were to sell all their holdings, then they have just cashed in all their chips. They no longer have an "axe" to hold over our heads. So why would the Chinese sell? All this talk of China dumping our debt is rather silly.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Is it true that if China does something with these debt thingys that they are holding that essentially they can threaten our national security >>
No, it's hyperbole.
What can happen though is that if China decides to stop buying treasuries then someone else needs to step in and buy them so we can run up even more debt in order to finance our spiral down the crapper. The question is who could/would do that? China could also start dumping treasuries on the market causing an even lower outlook for the dollar, and a consequent drop in value. That is a mixed bag though, while it will cause inflation at some level it also makes it cheaper for our exporters and thus could drive a bit more growth in manufacturing and jobs. >>
The question is who could/would do that?
The American people would/will, via the banks and pension funds. There are $4 trillion in money markets. Americans can easily absorb additional debt issuance and/or Chinese selling. But if the Chinese were to sell en mass, interest rates could rise which may actually be beneficial for the dollar. Also if the Chinese were to sell all their holdings, then they have just cashed in all their chips. They no longer have an "axe" to hold over our heads. So why would the Chinese sell? All this talk of China dumping our debt is rather silly. >>
A good percentage of money markets are already invested in treasuries (usually short term).
Interest rates may rise if the Chinese were to sell however, the higher interest will cause even more debt which means the printing of more money out of thin air.
China knows that the US needs them to continue purchasing our debt. They have skin in the game and unfortunately have the right to demand certain things (fund managers put pressure on companies they have large holdings in) of the US.
As I noted in another post, China may be looking to the future as they believe the US will not have the resolve to make the drastic cuts needed to avoid default and economic collapse. They are making deals with other countries to cushion the blow should we not do what is needed. We are in deep ____ and our political leaders need to come clean, put their own careers to the side, and be straight with the American public on how bad things really are and what we need to do to save the day. If they do not, say good bye to America as we know it.
Instagram - numismatistkenny
My Numismatics with Kenny Blog Page Best viewed on a laptop or monitor.
ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative
2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year
Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Plutonium, .223's and Quido Chen
<< <i>I wonder who they use for a collection agency. >>
Walmart
The closely watched U.S. trade deficit with China jumped nearly 20 percent in April to $21.6 billion. It continues at a pace to exceed last year's record of about $273 billion.
<< <i>The US gov will do whatever it takes to make the commununists happy. >>
Because some in the US gov't can relate.
<< <i>We can not give in to the liberals on this one. We need to get the country back on track and stop this stupid spending. >>
Big debt: Between 2001 and 2010, the Bush tax cuts added $2.6 trillion to the public debt, 50 percent of the total debt accrued during that time. Over the past 10 years, the country has spent more than $400 billion just servicing the debt created by the cuts.
Supply-side failure: Far from paying for themselves with increased economic activity as promised, the tax cuts have depleted the public treasury. Tax collections have plunged to their lowest share of the economy in 60 years.
No jobs: Between 2002 and 2007, employment increased by less than 1 percent when the economy was supposed to be expanding. Employment growth barely kept pace with population growth. Between the end of 2001, when the country was in a recession, and the peak of the real estate bubble, er, economic expansion in 2007, the US economy performed worse than at any time since the end of World War II.
Rich people benefit: The best-known result of the Bush tax cuts is that virtually all the benefits were conferred upon people who didn't need them at all and who didn't use the money to, say, create more jobs or pay their workers better. Median weekly earnings fell more than 2 percent between 2001 and 2007. Meanwhile, people making over $3 million a year, who account for just 0.1 percent of taxpayers, got an average tax cut of $520,000, more than 450 times what the average middle-income family received.
Entitlements for trust-fund slackers: For a party that likes to talk about the virtues of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, personal responsibility and entrepreneurship, the Bush tax cuts were like an entitlement program for the already entitled. You'd be hard pressed to find a better way to create a lazy leisure class than by eliminating the estate tax.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/10th-anniversary-bush-tax-cuts
If you read the tea leaves and the Chicoms leave the market for our paper....the FED /Govt 'might' just have to raise interest rates a little to draw in some fresh blood...er...capital.
Could send a little ripple toward the bullion market. HINT HINT
Chinese dumping US treasuries = sawing off the limb they're sitting on. China has a bit more preparation and building of understructures before starting the chainsaw. Right now they're pretty well stuck with us junkies.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine.
Camelot
<< <i>
<< <i>The US gov will do whatever it takes to make the commununists happy. >>
Because some in the US gov't can relate.
Some? Most
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
|
|
|
|
|
|
/
Edited to add:
The Gubment doesn't need to do a thing...WE need to make the difficult choices and buy fewer products made there....It's quite a challenge.
I've been looking to buy a manual can opener for over a year (one not made in China). I haven't found one yet.
<< <i>
<< <i>We can not give in to the liberals on this one. We need to get the country back on track and stop this stupid spending. >>
Big debt: Between 2001 and 2010, the Bush tax cuts added $2.6 trillion to the public debt, 50 percent of the total debt accrued during that time. Over the past 10 years, the country has spent more than $400 billion just servicing the debt created by the cuts.
Supply-side failure: Far from paying for themselves with increased economic activity as promised, the tax cuts have depleted the public treasury. Tax collections have plunged to their lowest share of the economy in 60 years.
No jobs: Between 2002 and 2007, employment increased by less than 1 percent when the economy was supposed to be expanding. Employment growth barely kept pace with population growth. Between the end of 2001, when the country was in a recession, and the peak of the real estate bubble, er, economic expansion in 2007, the US economy performed worse than at any time since the end of World War II.
Rich people benefit: The best-known result of the Bush tax cuts is that virtually all the benefits were conferred upon people who didn't need them at all and who didn't use the money to, say, create more jobs or pay their workers better. Median weekly earnings fell more than 2 percent between 2001 and 2007. Meanwhile, people making over $3 million a year, who account for just 0.1 percent of taxpayers, got an average tax cut of $520,000, more than 450 times what the average middle-income family received.
Entitlements for trust-fund slackers: For a party that likes to talk about the virtues of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, personal responsibility and entrepreneurship, the Bush tax cuts were like an entitlement program for the already entitled. You'd be hard pressed to find a better way to create a lazy leisure class than by eliminating the estate tax.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/10th-anniversary-bush-tax-cuts >>
Careful!!!
Anyone who points out that tax cuts and entitlements to the superwealthy are just as stupid
as wasteful spending is called a communist now days.
<< <i>the tax cuts have depleted the public treasury. >>
Typical socialist BS. Spending has depleted the public treasury. More taxes will only result in more spending. Anyone that cannot see that as plain as day needs to quit drinking the kool aid.
<< <i>For a party that likes to talk about the virtues of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, personal responsibility and entrepreneurship, the Bush tax cuts were like an entitlement program for the already entitled. You'd be hard pressed to find a better way to create a lazy leisure class than by eliminating the estate tax. >>
Bush tax cuts were an entitlement program for those that provide the engine of production which provides employment in our capitalistic economy. Socialists tend to forget that profit is nothing more than the owners' reward for taking the risk in the investment. It is this risk from these entitled rich people that creates jobs that result in production. Estates are what is left over after the government has already dipped it's hands into the man's pockets. Estates should not be taxed again.
The goal of any entrepreneur is to be productive and make a lot of money doing it. Take away his American Dream to make himself wealthy and you take away his incentive to create jobs. Take away his right to leave his already taxed fortune to his family and you take away his incentive to accumulate and to save. Remove the entrepreneur's motivation to do his thing and you will be left with socialism.
I despise those rich ba$$turds as much as the next guy. I also realize they are the driving economic force in a free market. Remove their desire to be a part of the market and you lose the jobs they create. Then we're back to depending on Washington to provide for us. I do believe this is the goal of our earthly masters and their Washington puppets.
I have no problem with taxing the wealthy. However, they should be taxed the same as you and I. They should not pay an additional penalty for their success, that often comes at great risk. Keep in mind that many of them have more becaused they risked more.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>Anyone who points out that tax cuts and entitlements to the superwealthy are just as stupid
as wasteful spending is called a communist now days. >>
Obama requested spending of $3.83 trillion for FY 2011, Bill Gates is worth ~56 billion, the richest American.
We require close to 11 billion a day in spending, execute Gates, confiscate all his wealth and you get 5 days of Federal spending.
The problem is spending not taxation unfortunately.
I once read that the richest man in Rome could fund the budget for one year.
Maybe the rich should pay more taxes, but you will never notice it, it will be gone in the blink of an eye.
<< <i>
<< <i>We can not give in to the liberals on this one. We need to get the country back on track and stop this stupid spending. >>
No jobs: Between 2002 and 2007, employment increased by less than 1 percent when the economy was supposed to be expanding >>
pffttttttttttttt as usual Frank. Is it not easier to grow jobs when unemployement is SKY high like it is now? Conversely, when unemployement is super low is it not VERY hard to grow jobs? In theory with unemployement as low as it was in 2002 through 2007 most anybody who wanted to be employeed was employeed. MJ
Unemployement by year.Frank you can thank George Bush for a job well done
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
"In our opinion, the United States has already been defaulting....Washington had already defaulted on its loans by allowing the dollar to weaken against other currencies - eroding the wealth of creditors including China, Mr Guan said."
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>We can not give in to the liberals on this one. We need to get the country back on track and stop this stupid spending. >>
No jobs: Between 2002 and 2007, employment increased by less than 1 percent when the economy was supposed to be expanding >>
pffttttttttttttt as usual Frank. Is it not easier to grow jobs when unemployement is SKY high like it is now? Conversely, when unemployement is super low is it not VERY hard to grow jobs? In theory with unemployement as low as it was in 2002 through 2007 most anybody who wanted to be employeed was employeed. MJ
Unemployement by year.Frank you can thank George Bush for a job well done >>
Frank is here? Amongst us?
Frank requests that you stay on topic
2011 United States federal budget - $3.8 trillion (submitted by President Obama)
2005 United States federal budget - $2.4 trillion (submitted by President Bush) Link.
In six years we've increased federal government spending by 60% -- that a $1.4 trillion increase.
Total federal government revenue is the same as it was in 2005 -- $2.174 trillion in 2011 versus $2.154 trillion in 2005. Link.
We need to cut spending back to where we were in 2005. That will mostly resolve the problem.
<< <i>Chinese Rating Agency says US has begun defaulting
"In our opinion, the United States has already been defaulting....Washington had already defaulted on its loans by allowing the dollar to weaken against other currencies - eroding the wealth of creditors including China, Mr Guan said." >>
Correct. The US GOV thinks it's found a way to tax everyone in the world. That's going to come to an exchange and end.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>Chinese Rating Agency says US has begun defaulting
"In our opinion, the United States has already been defaulting....Washington had already defaulted on its loans by allowing the dollar to weaken against other currencies - eroding the wealth of creditors including China, Mr Guan said." >>
Correct. The US GOV thinks it's found a way to tax everyone in the world. That's going to come to an exchange and end. >>
Unfortunately, when it's time to pay, it will be all holders of dollar, the majority being the American population who are also getting a double dose with tax liabilites. Not only do Americans hold dollars, everything they have is in dollars. Unless of course, they had the foresight to convert their savings and retirement accounts to PMs.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>The president's plan kept the tax cuts for the wealthy. >>
Money that was earned by them and belongs to them. Perhaps though we can style ourselves more and more after the ex soviet union and then wonder why only a few of us are living well.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go
something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw
them a curve. Since you are all such good customers, he said, I’m going to
reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just
$80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that
from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end
up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill
by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each
should pay!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). The seventh now pay $5
instead of $7 (28%savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25%
savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The tenth now
paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to
drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare
their savings.
I only got a dollar out of the $20, declared the sixth man. He pointed to
the tenth man, but he got $10!
Yeah, that’s right, exclaimed the fifth man. I only saved a dollar, too.
It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!
That’s true!! shouted the seventh man. Why should he get $10 back when I
got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!
Wait a minute, yelled the first four men in unison. We didn’t get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down
and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of
them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax
system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from
a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they
just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
Anyway, there's your lesson on bar stool economics!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
When their bankers can't keep balance sheet we the tax payers bail them out. Sorry, I have little sympathy for them.
<< <i>Hey Baley! This gets my vote for Post of the Day! >>
Yep. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Let's not forget that tax cuts for the wealthy are in reality a reduction that leaves most of them still paying a higher percentage than most Americans. >>
Warren Buffett recently was quoted as saying exactly the opposite regarding his personal tax rate versus that of his own secretary. I'll take WB's word on it.
<< <i> Warren Buffett recently was quoted as saying exactly the opposite regarding his personal tax rate versus that of his own secretary. I'll take WB's word on it. >>
Not a recent quote, it was made in 2007 when he paid 17.7% after writeoffs and deductions. Most Americans, after deductions, pay less than 17.7%. Final, paid tax rate is not your starting taxable rate based on income; it is the percentage you end up paying after you find all the "loopholes" and deductions. CNN reports that in 2009 47% of American households ended up paying no income tax at all. That's almost half of American households paying no tax at all. I stand by my statement that most wealthy taxpayer's pay a higher percentage than most Americans.
Here's some not so recent data, but probably a good indicator:
The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes.
Those that have been convinced that the rich don't pay enough taxes need to switch to the green kool aid.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i>It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
We are no longer in any postiton to dictate 'our' will to China. In fact, we don't even have a collective understanding of what it is we are trying to do. We seem to want to be everything to everybody.
---
We squander enormous sums of money that we do not actually have, so we borrow it and pay the interest so we can continue the pretense that we are rich. 'We', or at least somebody, decided that our wealth was better expended upon such things as the maintanence of 14 carrier groups around the world. We pay for the extravagance of calling ourselves policeman of the world through our antiquated infrastructure, collapsing bridges, pot-holed highways, hysterical 19'th century rail system. Pathetic.
-----
We can't patrol our own southern border but we think we can effectively command the South China Sea. Nutso.
------
Representative Weiner is just that; representative of the roman orgy we pretend is our government. Think he really gives much serious thought to improving our lot? Think he's capable of it even if he were so inclined? Or the rest of those flim-flamming hypocrites? They say we get the government we deserve, but frankly we deserve VASTLY better than what we've got.
<< <i> It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods.
Brink back industry to the USA along with the jobs. Tell the Chicoms to shove it
where the sun don't shine. >>
China didn't take our jobs. American union bosses gave them to China by refusing to budge on wage and benefit demands. China put in a lower bid and got the contract. That's how business works.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
<< <i> It about time that the USA teach a stern lesson to China. Tariffs on all Chinese goods. >>
Do you think a trade war will benefit the U.S. economy?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Our Gov't selling our debt to China in return for open shipping ports for their CHEAP goods.
American worker can not compete with SLAVE labor. We have EOE workers rights & civil rights.
Greed = why ours jobs were sold out.
Now those corporations $$ is being held overseas so it will NOT be taxed.
An example: Right now, APMEX is selling a $500 face bag of Walkers for $13,423.67, so $1K face would be $26,847 or so. Tulving, on the other hand, is selling 2 x $500 face bags of Walkers for $25,976 delivered. If you were in the market for such an item, why on earth would you buy from APMEX?
Would American consumers pay an extra buck or two for a T-shirt made in the USA? Would a car company pay an extra $10-15 for a wiring harness just because it was made here?
While I support keeping work in the US, I'm not sure how Americans would react if all of a sudden prices went up 10, 15, 20% across the board for damn near everything they buy.
A slippery slope indeed.
Most entrepreneurs have certainly risked more. But the wealthy that have been connected into the new boyz club over the past 20 yrs have been playing a rigged game without
risk as the govt backstops all their significant losses. That includes bankers, hedge funds, and their connected friends. Rather than being additionally taxed, they should be thrown in
jail.
Rising interest rates would only provide a short term hit to PM's. It's real interest rates that provide the oomph. Note that during the 2 yrs from 1978 to 1980 interest rates were
raised from around 5% to 12%, with no real effect on slowing gold's 3X to 4X increase during that period.
roadrunner
If you could buy .999 Chinese gold at a good discount to .999 American gold, you'd go for the Chinese gold and no one could blame you. It goes back to the old "that ain't right" unless it affects your money. A good example is recent debates here over runaway public pension promises and how our public employee membership took exception because it affected their money.
Higher wages add to higher price inflation: (1) They are an added cost to production, (2) They provide the buying public with more income to spend. If wages were half of what they are then buyers would not be able to afford current prices; prices would have to come down or the producer would cease to survive. Ever notice how the price of something is set based on the income level of targeted buyers? The American worker has been brainwashed into believing he is better off because he starts making more money. What he fails to realize is that as long as most other American workers are seeing the same wage increase, then prices will go up as well. While income has risen, standard of living remains the same. A raise in minimum wage is a good example. What do you think that does to the cost of labor at McDonalds and the prices they have to charge?
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.